Author amarriedguy Posted October 12, 2019 Author Posted October 12, 2019 You could try an exercise our counselor taught us. Take the trigger and gently approach it. E.g.- explain to your wife that you've been missing intimacy with her, and give her a gentle kiss on her mouth. She may be startled, but with the expatiation, it may well be okay. If she is, talk about ti afterwards. then , if she's okay, keep going, It will take time, but she may well come around. She's likely terrified that intimate with you will automatically equal sex, which, as you can well imagine, would be a huge trigger for her. Expecting her to just jump back in is both cruel and it won't work. Also, and I am not accusing you, but have there been any women who you have recently become friendly with or who have started working with you? There are no new or changed relationships with women in my life. Have I thought about it? Absolutely. Though I like the idea of the "exercise" you propose, the ugly truth is that after 15 years I'm no longer attracted to her. It does seem that there are very few avenues open to me...
pepperbird Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 Her silence, and my reluctance to push her on any of this, has forced me to be something of a mind reader--a role I detest. I'm quite sure she no longer wants to have sex--what I mean is that even with the best therapy in the world, I think she still wouldn't want sex. And for her to have sex with me "dutifully" feels coercive to me... op, As someone who survived being sexually assaulted, I will tell you something that you may not realize. I can't speak for how men who have been attacked in this way feel, as I am not a man. I can only speak for myself. When you have been attacked in that way, it kills your ego. It really does. You get the usual " you asked for it": nonsense, which makes you feel at your worst. You desperately want someone to hold you and make you feel safe, but every time someone touched you, your mind goes back to the attack. It's not just the feelings...the smells, sounds like maybe a song that was playing, even the lightning can bring it all back. The sense of helplessness, and hoping for rescue form the attack, but it never comes. The shame of having to report it or even talk about it, being rejected by some who don't want to hear, seeing bits and pieces in the men you meet who that like the person who attacked you, but you don't know who he is for sure, so almost every man can seem dangerous. Never mind what this may well have done to her self esteem. It's not really talked about, but women who get raped often feel incredibly ugly inside. She may well wonder why you would ever want someone like her, like she can't be loved anymore. Her world is no longer safe.I know you wanted to help her and tried to do your best, but by allowing her to push all this down because it was so hard to talk about with her, all of this shame,anger, grief, etc. has been allowed to fester. Having her open up and talk, you may well realize just how deeply she does, and always has, loved you.
SummerDreams Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 I am always saddened when I rad posts like this. It's sad because here is a woman who has been attacked and suffered great bodily harm. She couldn't deal with it, and people on here are painting her as "selfish". As I was the one who first used the word selfish, I would like to clarify that I only find selfish the fact that she chose not to get the help any victim needs and she dragged her husband (who she loves (?) ) to this life that he did not have a say in, he didn't choose and he had no way of doing anything differently. As I said, she chose to live a robotic life not taking into account how her husband feels for 15 years. 15 years is a lot of time. She MUST know that her husband is unhappy. If she doesn't know, then she doesn't care to know. Either way, I find her behavior selfish. I do empathise with her, but a victim has so many ways to get help. When you deny help, you can't expect to have sympathy forever. This is my point of view. When my husband gets back from work every day, with only one look at his face I know if something is wrong, if he is worried about something, if he is nervous etc. Sometimes I can feel it even when he is behind me without even looking at him, I feel his aura. Same with him. Why does this happen? Because we care. Because we have spent hundreds of hours discussing about our lives, our opinions, our beliefs, our feelings etc. Because when one of us has a problem the other one CARES to approach this problem and find a solution. That's why I don't find it OK that the OP's wife has no idea (or doesn't care) about her husband's unhappiness. If she cared and she was making efforts and she was failing, I would say that at least she tried. But she is not trying. She is living in her comfort zone, not letting him get close to her nor away from her. This is a torture and no person should be put through this when there are ways to improve the situation. 2
pepperbird Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 However, I think I share some culpability in this as I never signaled my dissatisfaction. I feel I was correct in doing so as I never wanted to drag her back through her trauma... But--surely it must have crossed her mind that my silence was intentional, that it was to protect her? . OP, I'm saying this gently to you, because there's no way you could have known this. She may well have interpreted your silence as being that you didn't care, saw her as "damaged". You were with her out of obligation, not love. I know that makes no sense, and I don;t mean it as a jab at you in any way. turn it around though. In her shoes, how would you feel if it you who had suffered a great trauma (like what she went through)and she wouldn't talk to you about it?
SummerDreams Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 Having her open up and talk, you may well realize just how deeply she does, and always has, loved you. Why is it his responsibility to have her open up and talk? Why does a person have to be "opened up" to show that they love their spouse? Shouldn't it be obvious? Shouldn't it be said and shown loud and clear every day with every way possible? I'm sorry for what you went through, but please don't try to shame the OP into staying with his wife any more years and be miserable. This is not fair. Everything you say he has thought and analyzed for 15 years and now he wants a way out because he sees there is no way things change. Guilting him in staying and being miserable with a woman who doesn't want to do anything to fix or improve the situation is wrong and unfair.
SummerDreams Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 She may well have interpreted your silence as being that you didn't care, saw her as "damaged". You were with her out of obligation, not love. Even if this were true, then why did she choose to stay with such a person? Please, stop trying to make him feel guilty. It's not fair. Your situation and his wife's situation are different.
Author amarriedguy Posted October 12, 2019 Author Posted October 12, 2019 op, Never mind what this may well have done to her self esteem. It's not really talked about, but women who get raped often feel incredibly ugly inside. She may well wonder why you would ever want someone like her, like she can't be loved anymore. Her world is no longer safe.I know you wanted to help her and tried to do your best, but by allowing her to push all this down because it was so hard to talk about with her, all of this shame,anger, grief, etc. has been allowed to fester. Having her open up and talk, you may well realize just how deeply she does, and always has, loved you. Thank you for this. You speak to the crux of the problem: I know that she loves me very much. She has done nothing willfully to hurt me, but unfortunately has been blind to the hurt she has unintentionally caused. None of this is a punishment or manipulation; she is terribly wounded--and the wound itself keeps her in check. If I didn't love her I wouldn't have posted any of this. It would be simple: I don't love you so I'm leaving. I would never hurt her. I'm no longer physically attracted to her. I don't say this in despair--but there seem no real options for me...
Rayce Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 I think she has been closed off for so many years that you need a professional that can help you both open up. Again I would like to suggest a weekend couple retreat of some sort that will help you both get to the heart to heart stage type talk. Wishing you both peace...
pepperbird Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 Thank you for this. You speak to the crux of the problem: I know that she loves me very much. She has done nothing willfully to hurt me, but unfortunately has been blind to the hurt she has unintentionally caused. None of this is a punishment or manipulation; she is terribly wounded--and the wound itself keeps her in check. If I didn't love her I wouldn't have posted any of this. It would be simple: I don't love you so I'm leaving. I would never hurt her. I'm no longer physically attracted to her. I don't say this in despair--but there seem no real options for me... I don't have any advice to share for this. It's absolutely heartbreaking. Two people who have done nothing wrong are left to carry such a heavy weight. You've really brought up a very good point. What can happen to a couple when there's been a huge trauma like this. I hope the man who caused all this heartache has been made to suffer in equal measure. How have you dealt with your anger over what happened to her?
SummerDreams Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 OP please don't let pepperbird with her story guilt trip you into staying with your wife, You are unhappy, you need to start caring for yourself.
Author amarriedguy Posted October 12, 2019 Author Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) I don't have any advice to share for this. It's absolutely heartbreaking. Two people who have done nothing wrong are left to carry such a heavy weight Anger and grief. Lots and lots of therapy over many years. And you see the irony--she knew I was getting help, but didn't for herself... Edited October 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Author amarriedguy Posted October 12, 2019 Author Posted October 12, 2019 OP please don't let pepperbird with her story guilt trip you into staying with your wife, You are unhappy, you need to start caring for yourself. I'm not feeling guilt-tripped into anything. Her story is real and it's good to hear. Yes, I do need to care for myself, I need to address my needs and wishes. But if my post was simply "my wife won't have sex with me" I don't think I would have sought out this forum--my situation is too complicated. Or... maybe it seems complicated to me, when it isn't--I realize I have my own blind spots.
Lotsgoingon Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 I feel I was correct in doing so as I never wanted to drag her back through her trauma. Fear of "dragging" someone back through the trauma reflects a thoroughly misguided view of trauma and a complete misunderstanding of human pain and resilience. Your wife, was trapped in trauma, suffocated by trauma. Covered in trauma for head to toe. She was never past the trauma. Therefore there is no such thing as "dragging her back through" the trauma. Silence and avoidance was NEVER going to be healing for her or for you. Gentleness is one thing. Silence is totally different. This is kid-like thinking right here. Kids believe that if they pretend something away, like abuse ... and don't tell their parents ... the horrible abuse will go away. Of course, the abuse is still there exerting its terrible effects--whether you admit to it or not. (Just listen to any testimony from child-abuse victims.) And in any case, you weren't going to ask her to relive the moment by moment torture of the trauma ... You were simply going to talk to her about her life now ... and possible strategies for moving forward and living more fully even with the trauma. 1
Author amarriedguy Posted October 12, 2019 Author Posted October 12, 2019 Silence and avoidance was NEVER going to be healing for her or for you. Gentleness is one thing. Silence is totally different. This is kid-like thinking right here. Kids believe that if they pretend something away, like abuse ... and don't tell their parents ... the horrible abuse will go away. Of course, the abuse is still there exerting its terrible effects--whether you admit to it or not. (Just listen to any testimony from child-abuse victims.) I think I wasn't very clear about this. We talked a lot--a lot--about the events; during the immediate aftermath I watched her near death three times; we both lived in the immediate physical consequences. But I'm not her therapist, and there came a point when she no longer wanted to talk about it, and it was inappropriate for me to press her to talk. She met with a therapist for a while then, which was the right course of action. After that she didn't want to talk about it anymore. But this was no magical thinking that the problem would vanish, no head in the sand--this was her decision to stop speaking about it. I stand by my decision: Gentle or not, I feel it would have been wrong to push her to talk about her trauma when she no longer wanted to.
Marc878 Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 You can stay and be a martyr or not. That's totally up to you. As for your wife. I doubt she cares one way or the other.
SummerDreams Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 You can stay and be a martyr or not. That's totally up to you. As for your wife. I doubt she cares one way or the other. Well for you every man who stays in a sexless marriage (even if there is such a traumatic experience or an illness involved) is a martyr and they are stupid if they stay. You give everyone the same advise. No consideration of each of the specific matter. OP I suggest you continue with your therapy. I'm sure in time the answers that you are looking for will become more clear until you will know without a doubt what to do.
Lotsgoingon Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 OP, I hear you ... and I want to acknowledge: you were in a horrible situation and dilemma. When I say this was traumatic for you too, I'm not being melodramatic. I'm being literal. This experience and her reaction were indeed traumatic for you as well! You did what you could, I'm hearing you say ... and you tried to help her by not bringing up this monster of a topic that she tried to make off limits. Well ... I hope you know ... you can live ... and right now you are not living. You dislike her, have lost attraction to her ... basically have been neglected by her since this incident occurred. Sounds like she is safe now ... so would you feel guilty leaving her now?
Author amarriedguy Posted October 12, 2019 Author Posted October 12, 2019 You can stay and be a martyr or not. That's totally up to you. As for your wife. I doubt she cares one way or the other. I don't believe I'm being a martyr; I get no joy coming to this forum to discuss my very personal situation and pain, but I do hope to get greater clarification in what I see as a very difficult situation. As for my wife--I believe you are completely mistaken, I think she cares a great deal.
FMW Posted October 12, 2019 Posted October 12, 2019 OP, I'm sure from what you've said that your wife does indeed love you. The problem is, the way she is able to show that love isn't what you need in order to feel that you have a true partner in life. Most of us need intimacy (hugging, holding hands, kissing, and yes, sex) in order to feel connected and bonded to our partner. That isn't negated (for you) by her trauma. Neither of you are wrong in your feelings, there is no need to demonize either of you. But the bottom line is that you are unhappy and it seems have finally realized you don't want to spend the rest of your time on this earth feeling the same lack and emptiness (for lack of a better word). You're in a tough spot for sure. I would start by talking to her about the extent of your unhappy feelings. I'm not sure what can change at this point, but you at least need to make sure she understands how serious this has become for you. 1
giotto Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 I am always saddened when I rad posts like this. It's sad because here is a woman who has been attacked and suffered great bodily harm. She couldn't deal with it, and people on here are painting her as "selfish". Where did I say she's being selfish? Especially if you read my other posts. It is what it is. If she doesn't want to have therapy, she is entitled to it. But where does this leave her husband? It takes two to have a marriage. Obviously, he never complained, so she assumed he is ok with it.
giotto Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 How are you doing by the way? Not great. I don't really want to separate, because I still love my wife. But she doesn't want to fix herself and she is entitled to her choice. It's torture for me to stay and it's torture for me to leave. I guess a bit like the OP...
Whodatdog Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 OP, what exactly do you want? I think you know if you dont change your situation, then there will be no change in your situation. It is entirely up to you if you want to change your life. It sounds like you are in a household with your sister, except that you are married to her and can't leave. Sure, you love each other...but is that enough to spend the rest of your life? At 58 you dont have forever. Do you want to give yourself a chance for happiness, because if you do, it wont be staying in your situation now. Its very difficult making a big change in your life, because that is what it will be. Unfortunately, it will be entirely up to you. 1
pepperbird Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 OP please don't let pepperbird with her story guilt trip you into staying with your wife, You are unhappy, you need to start caring for yourself. It's not about guilt. It's about a man who is trying to decide what he wants to do with the rest of his life.
elaine567 Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 What is so wrong with divorcing her and staying in proximity to her? How will he ever move on with an ex wife who is likely going to be an albatross around his neck if she stays close by? I know some will put up with all sorts from new partners, but a "damaged" wife he dumped due to no sex and he is still keeping an eye on, I guess will not be very appealing to many women. If he divorces her, she may no longer want him hanging around her. She may do better alone... He has already, some would say, "wasted" 15 years. I guess if he doesn't stay clear he may well waste another 15...
SummerDreams Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 a "damaged" wife he dumped due to no sex and he is still keeping an eye on, I guess will not be very appealing to many women. He won't divorce her due to no sex. He will divorce her due to her wanting to stay in the victim state forever and doing nothing to fix herself and the marriage. If he does divorce her and he keeps her as a friend he visits sometimes, I don't see it as a deal breaker. Especially in his age when the women he will meet will themselves have a divorce behind them and maybe kids with their ex husband, they will understand that you don't just abandon a sick person you spent 18 years with. I would appreciate it if lets say once a month he would call her or visit her to ask if she needs anything. It would show he is a decent man who respects his own choices. 1
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