Secure + Avoidant: How to Communicate...

[findingnemo]

Confession: this guy reminds me of myself when I was younger. So I'll be speaking from that experience.

 

You are right: Yes, he probably needs serious therapy for his FOO issues. Probably had a mom and/or dad who violated his boundaries, who didn't allow him to have his own views and feelings--without being shamed or criticized. As a result, he doesn't believe that he can be himself, a real person--with opinions, flaws, quirks and preferences--in a relationship.

 

When you're in this kind of thinking, you don't understand that you're allowed with a loved one to say no, yes, I'm not sure. I'd rather go to X movie than Y movie. I'd rather talk about this rather than that. No, I don't want to do what you want to do right now. Can we do that later? You also don't believe that you can be human and still be loved. So an intimate relationship becomes a pressure cooker.

 

He's working REALLY HARD to be a good guy, afraid that any mistake could lead to you disliking him. Unfortunately your words alone--even your actions of acceptance--won't undo that programming he has. It's a deep survival strategy at this point.

 

What makes this problem particularly hard to grow out of is that over time, you don't even know you're hiding, you don't even know you can be yourself more, you even lose an awareness of your own preferences. You'll just label yourself "immature" ... or someone with "commitment issues."

 

True story: I remember once travelling out of town with a gf. We ended up at a club playing blues music one night on this trip. Well, the AC was really turned up at this venue, and I was freezing. The hotel was only a five-minute walk away. At the end of the night, I mentioned that I was cold to my gf. She said, well why didn't you say something? You could have walked back to the hotel to get your jacket.

 

That idea NEVER remotely occurred to me. I thought my only option was to endure the cold AC. Can you see how dis-empowering and demoralizing such thinking (or non-thinking) is? It's likely your bf thinks like this. And a confounding problem is that even if you love him deeply and powerfully, he still will think he can only get that love by being a good boy who performs a certain way when with you. Or if you love him even though he messed up he's thinking I better not mess up again. Gotta get back to performing and being good--and hiding myself. And for him "messing up" could be something as meaninglessness as being tired one day when he sees you.

 

For example, right now ... having been out of touch with you ... he probably thinks you hate him--even though clearly you don't. He probably feels go guilty, like a failure. He also might have depression, and depression saps the energy to be social and destroys any sense that you can be a human being and be loved and accepted.

 

Yes, his work might be emotionally taxing, but that's not the problem. If his work stress ended, he would still have problems opening up and staying present--and not feeling exhausted in relationship.

 

The choice I come to in situations like this ... is ... if you want to "help" someone, it's usually best to do so as a friend. Helping someone with deep-seated problems and blocks like this guy has ... really not healthy to do that as a lover. You also have a bit of a conflict of interest. For him to get healthy, he may need to stop dating for a good while ... really stop dating ... even the idea of resuming at some point in the future can create suffocating pressure on a guy like this.

 

Good luck. He sounds like a good guy. You sound really emotionally healthy ... but ... he's got deeper problems for which there are not quick fixes.

 

The only thing I would say is make sure you tell him you still like him.

 

Thank you, Lotsgoingon. Thank you for sharing your personal story.

 

Wow! Like wow this is serious. I can't imagine him thinking like this. And yet it explains a lot. OMG! It explains the first thing that made me angry. Two years ago, he rejected the job he now has. Why? He explained to me that he had an obligation to our country, to fight for freedom, blah, blah, blah. Then he tells me about a number of organisations which needed his input. Input like legal papers, interpretations, case studies and more...serious work for which people get paid a lot. He was doing it for free! On top of his demanding job! I couldn't believe it. I put my foot down and said that he had to stop. Explained to him that he was being used. I couldn't understand why he couldn't just say "NO". He was working 16 hour days every day including Sundays. It took a while but he stopped.

 

The job he was offered was to be the regional head of his organisation in another region. Fantastic pay, great exposure, covering 6 countries and homes in two, etc. Why would anyone reject such an offer? I insisted and insisted and insisted. One day (almost a year later) he called me and said that the offer had been made again and that he was going to take it.:bunny: I was ecstatic. I asked when he would be leaving and what I could do. You know, help with packing up and such. He said he wasn't sure. A couple of months later, we travelled to the same city for work (just a coincidence) and spent a day together. The next week he calls me on a Sunday at 6 am, says he is on a flight back home (from an assignment overseas), will pack up and head out to his new assignment on an evening flight. I was in total shock! He was able to inform me about the progress of the job but when it came to leaving, he kind of disappeared again. He withheld information about the day he would leave and I just couldn't understand why. That is just one example of odd occurrences.

 

So many things have happened that can only be explained by the fact that he thinks differently. He does the oddest things and then turns around and is very loving. He is also super consistent and reliable when it comes to certain things. Always in the office or on the job when he says he is. And always sincere when he tells me how he feels and when apologising. I Googled his behaviour because I knew that something was very wrong. I started by Googling "player" to eliminate that since I knew that he wasn't. That was nothing like him. Eventually I found attachment styles. Jeez...you have given me a lot to think about. This is not something that can be fixed just like that.

 

What you describe as your thought pattern makes me sad. It makes me sad to imagine him having such thoughts when in truth he is an amazing human being. The idea that we may have to break up and just be friends if I want him to have a chance has not been ignored. It is not what I wanted to hear but it is not a surprise to me either. It had occurred to me as I researched and zeroed in on "avoidant". It seems that being avoidant could be part of a much more complicated condition or be co-morbid..something like that.

 

If I may, can I ask you how you became so self-aware?

[olivetree]

Maybe I'm asking the obvious, but are (were) you two in an official relationship?

 

When was the last time you spent with him in person? What has happened in the month since he dropped off the radar - have you called? Or?

 

I think the answers to these questions is important.

 

Does he say good bye before he disappears?

Does he break up with you?

 

I'm married to a man who was very avoidant in our dating relationship.

 

Being too nice and understanding was not what led to him changing.

It was loss and pain.

Loss and pain allows someone to hit rock bottom and then change.

[findingnemo]

Maybe I'm asking the obvious, but are (were) you two in an official relationship?

 

When was the last time you spent with him in person? What has happened in the month since he dropped off the radar - have you called? Or?

 

Those are good questions. The whole thread has got me analysing everything in a deeper way. So thanks for the questions. They help. Here goes...

 

If by official you mean we had discussed being together, were exclusive, call each other boyfriend and girlfriend, people know, etc...yes. Still, there are some issues in that department. For example, my family knows him. He got an invite to a family wedding last September. Has an invite to another next year in another country. My plus one. He is friendly with my siblings, cousins and a few aunts. He is a known figure in the community for his work and is quite friendly. It is a bit difficult to hide our relationship from people.

 

However, I have never met his family. I found out that he has a step mom and a biological mom from his friend. He doesn't know that I know. His friend found out quite by accident and told me that they have never discussed it. I have not met his childhood friends (4 very close ones I keep hearing about) but have been introduced to his workmates. We do have a number of other friends in common. So yeah. Your hunch is right. Something oddish about the status.

 

He is not very open. Will answer questions I ask him directly but will not volunteer information. Gushes about his family but nothing major. Nothing concrete. I did do some homework. Family seems okay on the surface. His father is a retired Professor (PhD in a science), his step mom is a stay-at-home mom, very involved in the church (standard behaviour for older women where I live, nothing fanatic), siblings are quite a number and it seems like they are a mixed family of sorts. All siblings are educated. Not a wealthy family but quite okay by any standards. The only thing he talked to me about in depth was the sudden death of his youngest sister a few years ago. Now that I think about it, he deliberately keeps his family separate from "us". This is very abnormal in our culture. Everyone is super nosy. They should have reached out to me by now. I assume (just realised this) that maybe they don't even know that I exist. The reason could be that I am much older than him - seemingly a terrible thing in these parts although more women are marrying younger men now. There are other valid reasons I could think of and that I have assumed were the reason for "hiding" me. 3 years is a long time though. He has FOO issues for sure. I couldn't care less what my family thinks of his age, or family or financial status.

 

The last time we were together was in July when I went to do some work in one of the countries he oversees. He made sure he'd be there at the same time. Spent 4 days with me in the same house. He is scheduled to visit end of the month. We have discussed spending the Christmas holiday together. My kids will be with their Dad this year so I will be free.

 

We had a heart-to-heart conversation on the phone 5 weeks ago. That's the only thing that comes to mind. It was about the future. I am in school, will finish next year and begin another academic program. I told him my work plans, how I will juggle my studies and work. I asked him about his plans for school...in depth. Maybe that triggered him. I don't know. He communicated normally for a few days then he disappeared. That is until today. He is back in contact. As I said earlier, he said nothing major. Just acted normal as if there was no break. I didn't call him. I sent him texts for 3 days in a row, "Good morning" and such and soon realised that he had disappeared again. Once that happens I just stop communicating until he returns. It is the kind of unhealthy pattern we have settled into. Unhealthy for me anyway. I do not ask where he has been or query him on why he disappeared. This is not because I am afraid. If we were talking face to face I would probably ask him. I find texting so impersonal and frankly annoying. We do a lot of audio notes (is that what they are called?). I feel like it is weird for me to ask deep questions on WhatsApp, so I don't. By the time we have a regular phone call, the issue has been buried.

 

Before I started this thread I thought that in terms of the relationship, we were pretty standard. Not perfect but not terribly dysfunctional except for the disappearing thing which is the most glaring. That is what freaks me out. I figured that there is no perfect relationship and although this is a first for me in terms of the issues, I just told myself that it is not so bad. For the family thing, I realised early on that it is not as glittery as it seems on the surface but figured that I shouldn't push. He will open up when he is ready. Now I don't know. I am beginning to see just how grave the situation is. Communication being the biggest problem. He is a very good writer, an orator, can debate anyone. But when it comes to discussing his feelings, he simply won't. He is comfortable discussing issues, things, facts. Like current news, economics, what I will do today or tomorrow. He advises me about the kids, how to handle work situations,... He will shut down discussions of feelings that go beyond sexual ones. When it comes to sex, oooh he opens up big time.

 

By year two, I began to write him long emails. I figured that if I wrote him old fashioned letters I could 1) tell him how I felt and be open, and 2) encourage him to open up. I must have sent him maybe 10 letters. He never responded. Not even to say that he'd received them. I gave up. Then one day I asked him if he got them and he said yes. I asked why he never responded and he said that he didn't know what to say. I found that a bit crazy because he is always writing opinion pieces for newspapers and such. He definitely knows how to write down his thoughts. Anyway, I stopped. At the beginning of this year, months after we talked about it and while at dinner, he randomly informs me that he reads my letters over and over again. I still have no idea what to make of that. He can literally quote my letters.

 

Not to say that it is all gloomy. It is amazing when we are together. Face to face especially.

 

I am sorry that this so long but I hope it gives you a clearer picture.

[findingnemo]

OP,

 

To be honest - if you've been dating for three years and aren't living together, aren't engaged, and he ghosted you for a complete month - it's ridiculous to act as his savior. You allowed this behavior to go on for too long to the point now where you've only reinforced it and added to his life history of acting this way. If you feel you must confront him then do so and tell him but if you desire happiness and a fulfilling relationship you owe it to yourself to leave. Discovering how and why you let this go on for so long will help you address your underlying problems and lead to a much happier outcome for you in any future relationships.

 

Yes I do have underlying problems. I believe that I am a pretty secure person. Actually did the quizzes because the situation had me questioning my attachment style. Apparently it is usually anxious people (those craving love) who put up with avoidants. So I took maybe 6 quizzes and nope, I am secure. I do not crave love from just any man. He has to be perfect for me.

 

My main underlying issue is that I was in an abusive marriage before. Like almost killed kind of abusive. Plus my ex-husband was the king of philanderers. A double whammy. I had one of the nastiest divorces I have ever heard of and it took over 4 years. Years of stress even after I left. Co-parenting is still the bane of my existence. So yes. I have my own issues that I have never seen a professional for and really should one day.

 

One of the main effects of that dreadful marriage is that I cannot willingly sign a piece of paper called a marriage licence. I would need to have dated and then lived with the man for decades before I do that to myself again. Another effect is that I filter for red flags that point to abuse potential. I filter for things like financial irresponsibility, dislike for children, temper issues, gold diggers (what is the male variety called?), philandering, alcoholism (a big red flag for me) and so much more. As a result, I have dated and dated and dated. One of those red flags surfaces and I am gone. No ambivalence whatsoever. By the time my BF and I got together, I was done. I was ready to remain solo for the rest of my life. I had decided that I wasn't meant to find someone.

 

I liked C (let's give him an initial) very much. He was my friend for 4 years before we got together. I could tell that he was different when we first met 7 years ago. His love of reading, Quad Bike riding, travel and other things drew me to him. We had a lot in common and interacted a lot. We worked on a couple of projects together too. it never occurred to me that we would be dating in the future. I was dating others anyway by the time he and I first got to know each other. The whole love thing crept up on me one night 3 years ago - 4 years after we had become friends. The first thing I told him when he kissed me was that I didn't want to go down that road. I didn't want to be in a relationship. But the more I thought about him and the sudden turn of events, the more I realised that it is possible that the person I had always wanted had been in my life all along. So we began dating. The beginning was amazing. He was perfect...until the cracks began to appear.

 

Getting engaged is not gonna happen any time soon...unless it is a 15 year engagement. He knows this. He knows that I have a phobia for marriage. He is fine with it. Weird but true. He also doesn't want to have kids. He is happy to be a father figure to mine but he absolutely refuses to bring a child into this terrible world. His words. I know that he loves children. He spends a lot of time with his nieces and nephews and is really good with them. When my son had an operation, C was in the hospital every day to see us.

 

Moving in together can only happen with time. It is not a normal thing here unless you plan to marry soon. It is a definitive declaration of marriage basically. Not that I am a follower of societal norms but I also need to take it slow because of my 3 kids. Mostly for them really. I don't believe that it is fair on the kids for us to live with him only to break up at some point. Been there, done that with their father. My first will go to university in two years in Canada. The other two will be going to boarding school in a year or so. Maybe then. Maybe.

 

So why did I let him keep disappearing? I am not sure. I need to think about it. What comes to mind is that:

 

1. The first few times it happened and we talked about it, I believed him when he said that he'd been busy.

2. His apologies were sincere.

3. There was no hint of other women or secret drinking or any weird red flag stuff.

3. I get really busy too and I guess I still like to be on my own. In my world, having a man is like having an extra child..sort of. I am expected to cook, entertain, organise him...Stepford Wife stuff. C is great for me. He is so self-sufficient. He packs his own lunch, delivers his own dry cleaning, takes himself to the doctor and only informs me afterwards as a by-the-way. It is fantastic!

4. When I realised that there is more to it than just playing me, I decided to be patient. It is the 1 month absence that triggered my search for answers. I can't handle that.

 

Why do I feel like I should help him? Well... my first reaction to my "avoidant" discovery was to run far far away. Ghost him even. But I just can't do that to C. I honestly believed even before reading about avoidants that this isn't about me.

 

I guess for me the main question on my mind, even now as I begin to understand the gravity of the situation, is what kind of flaky lover or even flaky friend would I be to just walk away? What would that say to me about who I am?

[I'veseenbetterlol]

That sounds like a exhausting relationship! This is not normal. I'm not dismissing that some people have issues, just that you don't deserve to be treated that way. Btw I don't believe in attachment styles. I used to think I had anxious attachment, but I didn't. Once I found a guy who truly loved me, there was no issue w/attachment. I always blamed myself, not the fact that I was dating the wrong type of guys.

[Veronica73]

My psychiatrist has described me as avoidant, and also, on my research about attachment theories, I would describe myself that way as well.

 

That said, I would NEVER...EVER... treat a guy I was dating the way this guy has treated you. With all this disappearing crap. And with this latest time for a MONTH! That is just callous and awful and I don’t know how you can stand it. I think he has way bigger issues than just being avoidant.

[Veronica73]

Also, flaky doesn’t equal avoidant.

 

Edit: I misread the flaky post. If you’re not married, it’s not flakey to walk away from someone who isn’t treating you the way you should be treated.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Veronica73

[ExpatInItaly]

Nothing about this relationship is standard, OP. It is very, very unusual in what is meant to be an official relationship and not at all normal. It seems you are realizing that now.

 

The more you write, the more I am convinced that this guy is not avoidant, but also not exactly single either. There are a lot of red flags that could also be explained by the presence of another woman in his life, or at least the attempt to keep the door open for other women. There is a significant difference between being avoidant and deliberately keeping a woman at a distance because you don't want to get serious with her. One can keep things casual without having deeper psychological issues. I fear you have been trying to sell yourself the avoidant narrative because the simpler truth is just to painful to accept.

 

Whatever the case, I think you need to wake up and really understand that there is no future here. He treats you like a casual option, and you treat him like he's some broken soul who could have a wonderful partnership with if he'd just admit he has problems. It's not going to happen and you have been excusing far too much crappy behaviour to hang on to something that really doesn't have the legs to make it.

 

I'm sorry. I know you are invested and want to believe this could all work out, but I don't see it happening. You deserve someone who wants a relationship just as much as you do. This man doesn't.

Edited October 10, 2019 by ExpatInItaly

[findingnemo]

That sounds like a exhausting relationship! This is not normal. I'm not dismissing that some people have issues' date=' just that you don't deserve to be treated that way. Btw I don't believe in attachment styles. I used to think I had anxious attachment, but I didn't. Once I found a guy who truly loved me, there was no issue w/attachment. I always blamed myself, not the fact that I was dating the wrong type of guys.[/quote']

 

It has been exhausting. That much is true.

 

Interesting that you dismiss attachment styles. At first I just thought, "What is this woo-woo stuff?" But then I kept on reading and a lot of what was described is what I had experienced. I don't believe that those styles are set in stone though. They say that being in a bad relationship can turn a secure person into an anxious one. They are clear that being with a secure person can help the other types adapt a more secure approach.

 

It seems that becoming an avoidant is something that happens when you are a child and that this just becomes who you are. Any of us can become anxious in adulthood in response to heartbreak or even tragedy. It therefore makes sense to me that you became secure after meeting a secure person. I am happy for you that you found the right person.

[findingnemo]

My psychiatrist has described me as avoidant, and also, on my research about attachment theories, I would describe myself that way as well.

 

That said, I would NEVER...EVER... treat a guy I was dating the way this guy has treated you. With all this disappearing crap. And with this latest time for a MONTH! That is just callous and awful and I don’t know how you can stand it. I think he has way bigger issues than just being avoidant.

 

Yes. It is possible that his avoidant nature is part of a bigger problem. And that scares me frankly.

[findingnemo]

Also, flaky doesn’t equal avoidant.

 

Edit: I misread the flaky post. If you’re not married, it’s not flakey to walk away from someone who isn’t treating you the way you should be treated.

 

Very true..and yet not really. When I left my violent marriage 10 years ago, I was broken. Totally lost. Fortunately for me, I met an older man. We started dating for a bit but he was absolutely sure that he didn't do conventional relationships. He was an open relationship type of guy. We stopped dating as I am a 100% closed relationship type. When we eventually discussed why he didn't want to be tied down, I understood him. I let the relationship go and chose friendship instead. He had prostrate cancer. He wanted to enjoy the time he had remaining on Earth. A relationship was a complication he didn't need.

 

During that time, he became an anchor for me. He advised me all through my messy divorce process which took 4 years. My businesses suffered when a partner decided to do a hostile takeover while I was down and out. The older man held my hand and scolded me in equal measure until I took back my company and threw my partner out. It took two years. He lived in another country but every day, he checked in. Long phone calls. Drafts of letters. Emails in point form about what I had to do and achieve that week. There would be trouble if I fell behind schedule. At no point did I not have his support. And boy did I lean on him. Without him, I wouldn't be where I am today. I couldn't get up in the morning. I couldn't think, plan, strategise. It was bad.

 

At that point in my life, I was probably an anxious attacher. I don't think he knew what that was. All he saw was someone he really liked getting beaten up by life. And he stepped up. Tough love, but love nonetheless. And I came out of the darkness much stronger. He died a few years ago but I will never forget how a total stranger I met in a hotel lobby of a foreign land looked at me and decided that I was worth saving. And do you know what he told me whenever I asked why he spent so much time and effort helping me? He asked me what I expected him to do with his time and effort. He told me of times in his life when others helped him and how at his worst it is human beings, not money (he was very wealthy) that saved him. He gave with no expectations of gratitude or returns of any kind.

 

And this is it really. When I first posted, my intention was to save C. I love him. It is as simple as that. I can't switch it off. And I know that he loves me. Now I see that this is way bigger a problem than I thought. Now I need to figure out the way to point him in the right direction for help and at the same time take care of myself and my needs. If our relationship must come to an end, so be it. But I will not just walk away from his life like he means nothing to me. I just can't do it.

[findingnemo]

Nothing about this relationship is standard, OP. It is very, very unusual in what is meant to be an official relationship and not at all normal. It seems you are realizing that now.

 

The more you write, the more I am convinced that this guy is not avoidant, but also not exactly single either. There are a lot of red flags that could also be explained by the presence of another woman in his life, or at least the attempt to keep the door open for other women. There is a significant difference between being avoidant and deliberately keeping a woman at a distance because you don't want to get serious with her. One can keep things casual without having deeper psychological issues. I fear you have been trying to sell yourself the avoidant narrative because the simpler truth is just to painful to accept.

 

Whatever the case, I think you need to wake up and really understand that there is no future here. He treats you like a casual option, and you treat him like he's some broken soul who could have a wonderful partnership with if he'd just admit he has problems. It's not going to happen and you have been excusing far too much crappy behaviour to hang on to something that really doesn't have the legs to make it.

 

I'm sorry. I know you are invested and want to believe this could all work out, but I don't see it happening. You deserve someone who wants a relationship just as much as you do. This man doesn't.

 

I can't say with utmost certainty that C is not this person you describe. My gut tells me otherwise. Not only that, I am not the kind of woman who relies on what a man says. I tend to look at his actions. C's actions have been all over the place from day one. So naturally, I did do some snooping. You can't hide other women from someone who is looking for them. Not here where I live and certainly not when you have a recognisable face wherever you go. There were other women issues early on but these were out in the open. There was a minor uproar when people started hearing about us being together and some concerted effort on the part of some women to break us up. They were pretty open about it. I found no hidden damsels in the background.

 

I will keep that in mind though. It is a deal breaker for me.

 

He also had no reason to hide them in the first year since we were not exclusive. I was still dating too at the time. I was not about to put my eggs in that one basket filled with holes.

[Flame Aura]

I guess for me the main question on my mind, even now as I begin to understand the gravity of the situation, is what kind of flaky lover or even flaky friend would I be to just walk away? What would that say to me about who I am?

You are looking at this the wrong way. Walking away would say that you have love for yourself first and foremost and know your value and what you deserve.

 

By staying you are basically saying you are such low value you are willing to let someone treat you like this.

[findingnemo]

You are looking at this the wrong way. Walking away would say that you have love for yourself first and foremost and know your value and what you deserve.

 

By staying you are basically saying you are such low value you are willing to let someone treat you like this.

 

Love for self is important, I know. And I did consider walking away. I have decided not to because I don't believe that he is deliberately acting like this. And I believe he needs help. Remember that I have known him for a long time. First as a friend.

 

As for the high value woman topic... I have my thoughts about that trend. Someone needs to debunk it once and for all. It is such a lie. Completely upside down thinking, IMO.

[lurker74]

This is exactly what I am trying to achieve. You are better at explaining it than I am.

 

When he first "disappeared" for a week or so each time, I wasn't worried. It seemed to happen haphazardly and his excuse was always work related. Of course, I thought to myself that he may not be that into me. He prioritises work over me. Yet...if I had an emergency and let him know, he would drop everything and come over. It took me a while to notice that every time we got closer, had a deep discussion, or spent a weekend together he would go into his silent mode. There was a pattern.

 

I know that I cannot change him. I even suspected that wanting to make him realise that his behaviour is not normal was a tall order. So I came for advice. I suspected that he would be in touch even though it has been a whole month of silence. The longest period so far.

 

Oddly enough, he resurfaced today. As if nothing is wrong. A mutual friend resigned from a public job and he texted me to inform me about it. Hmmm. I, as usual, responded normally like nothing is wrong. As you said, I want to be informed when he needs space and for that space to be reasonable. But also what I read (typical avoidant behaviour) if true means that he needs help. Professional help and someone has to try and get him to be open to getting it. Me.

 

To be clear, not increasing his stress that leads to further avoiding is a useful technique, but not in a vacuum. There must be a choice on his part...one where he chooses you. That is not an easy thing to get to...therapists might spend months getting there with a patient but at least their patient chose to be there, indicating a willingness or desire to change.

 

I would suggest that when he reappears, you accept him back (you love him, after all) without the stress but then the next day you make him aware of the pain he caused you. Not in an aggressive way but in a way that he isn't always able to avoid the pain of causing you pain. Then let that incident go. So that each time he does it, he becomes aware he is making a choice. He may choose NOT to be with you, but that is likely a better outcome for you than being treated so poorly.

[findingnemo]

To be clear, not increasing his stress that leads to further avoiding is a useful technique, but not in a vacuum. There must be a choice on his part...one where he chooses you. That is not an easy thing to get to...therapists might spend months getting there with a patient but at least their patient chose to be there, indicating a willingness or desire to change.

 

I would suggest that when he reappears, you accept him back (you love him, after all) without the stress but then the next day you make him aware of the pain he caused you. Not in an aggressive way but in a way that he isn't always able to avoid the pain of causing you pain. Then let that incident go. So that each time he does it, he becomes aware he is making a choice. He may choose NOT to be with you, but that is likely a better outcome for you than being treated so poorly.

 

Thank you Lurker74. I did exactly that. I acted normal and responded to the texts yesterday. Then I sent him an email explaining how bad it felt when he "hibernated" and asked that he agrees to give me an indication of when and how long he will do it. He acknowledged receipt of the email and said that he will respond.

[olivetree]

That sounds like a exhausting relationship! This is not normal. I'm not dismissing that some people have issues' date=' just that you don't deserve to be treated that way. Btw I don't believe in attachment styles. I used to think I had anxious attachment, but I didn't. Once I found a guy who truly loved me, there was no issue w/attachment. I always blamed myself, not the fact that I was dating the wrong type of guys.[/quote']

 

I would argue that you were anxiously-attached to your exes.

Now you are securely attached to your partner.

Probably because he is secure and made you feel secure.

Attachment isn't fixed.

 

OP, this doesn't sound very fulfilling.

But you sound content to move at a snail's pace and deal with Houdini coming and going.

 

If being understanding and supportive were working, his disappearances should be lessening, not getting longer.

I think you should have boundaries in place, like that he gets counselling or you won't take him back.

[ExpatInItaly]

If being understanding and supportive were working, his disappearances should be lessening, not getting longer.

I think you should have boundaries in place, like that he gets counselling or you won't take him back.

 

This is what I find troubling about all of this, too. He is disappearing for longer periods, without any warning, even when she has shown she is more than willing to accommodate this behaviour.

 

OP, I think it's good that you let him know how this makes you feel. I am not sure that telling him to let you know when he wants to bounce is going to be sufficient, though. Thus, set a boundary for yourself. How much longer are you willing tolerate this? How do you plan to identify whether this is avoidance or plain lack of interest in making you a serious girlfriend?

Edited October 10, 2019 by ExpatInItaly

[scooby-philly]

agree with expatinitaly - the real shocker here for me is the amount of time they've known each other and the amount of time they've been "dating" - 3 years? This isn't something most people would tolerate after 1 year, let alone 3 years.

 

And OP - the question is why do you truly want/need in a relationship? At our cores we need happiness and reciprocity. You're not married and it's not your obligation to help him. It's kind of you to want to do so - but the reality is - he may be too far gone to even be helped even if he's somewhat open to trying. Even if your physical, emotional, sexual, financial, adventure, daily, etc needs are met in other ways - why put up with it? And if all your needs are being met somehow - why are you in this to begin with?

[Versacehottie]

And do you know what he told me whenever I asked why he spent so much time and effort helping me? He asked me what I expected him to do with his time and effort. He told me of times in his life when others helped him and how at his worst it is human beings, not money (he was very wealthy) that saved him. He gave with no expectations of gratitude or returns of any kind.

 

 

hi, sorry for what you are going through. I don't know the answer to your problem--i have mixed feelings to say the least. But I will say, that the story you related above is one of the coolest I've heard in a long time...and I would imagine a very true assessment on life.

 

I know when you really love someone or believe you do it's easy to connect with these types of stories because they give you hope of some kind. I also think when you are affected by this type of information or anecdote it is because it aligns with your values/your purpose as well in life, maybe that's why you like the story more than others who hear may have heard this guys wisdom (not to mention you benefited from his help and his belief in this).

 

I think on some level that had a lot to do with business although there was some romantic relationship there--also the male-female dynamic was reversed, as was the age gap. I think it's easier for a guy to help someone they are interested in romantically business-wise because it adds to an ego boost of who they are/who they want to be. But reverse the situation and even if you don't feel bad "helping" him, it can be something guys stubbornly want to deal with on their own. Plus it sounds like we are talking about communication and his ability to connect romantically/emotionally, which is different than business help. He won't be blind, or isn't blind to the fact that you are "helping" him because it serves you as well and you have stake in the game. It's a tricky problem and like I said, I don't even have a clue how you should deal with it. All I can say, is that sometimes with relationships, even if it may fail, you just need to see something to its end. That part is 100% for you. I think the answer lies, in whichever path you take, is to start doing stuff more for yourself and what you need.

 

I do agree with olive tree that people who are avoiding something or commitment phobic in some way, usually only sort it out when they have hit rock bottom or lost what they are ambivalent about. I think I know a couple where being nice and helping them along "worked" but it was at a cost of a continued bad pattern, whereas the rock bottom, a loss that seemed permanent that caused the commitment avoidant person to change was more often the way to bridge the problem an dmore likely to work. Good luck and thanks for the story!

[findingnemo]

I would argue that you were anxiously-attached to your exes.

Now you are securely attached to your partner.

Probably because he is secure and made you feel secure.

Attachment isn't fixed.

 

OP, this doesn't sound very fulfilling.

But you sound content to move at a snail's pace and deal with Houdini coming and going.

 

If being understanding and supportive were working, his disappearances should be lessening, not getting longer.

I think you should have boundaries in place, like that he gets counselling or you won't take him back.

 

It has been a roller coaster ride for sure. I didn't understand what was happening so I wasn't intentionally being supportive as a strategy.

 

This thread has helped me do a number of things. I am grateful to everybody including those who ignored the "avoidant" business. The key point is that this relationship has not been working. I am especially grateful to Lotsgoingon who gave me an insight into how C thinks. This was invaluable in showing me that 1)what I suspect was right, 2)it will take drastic measures to address the problem, and 3) at the end of it all, the relationship we had must come to an end.

 

I have always known that I must not allow my partner free reign on the direction of the relationship. And all along I thought that this is what I was doing. Nope.

 

What I understand now is that by refusing to definitively address the disappearances, I basically participated in a cover up. His cover up. Hidden issues never get resolved. This is true in any relationship. He got comfortable and had no reason to change. Not for me, not for himself and certainly not for the sake of the relationship. At no point did he perceive a threat to the relationship because I accommodated his disappearances. Not that I never said anything. I did but I was polite and didn't react like it was a dealbreaker.

 

My email blew open that hidden chamber. I asked him for 3 things. One of these is to give me a signal when he needs to hibernate, as well as set a reasonable time limit. This is after I spelled out clearly how I feel when he hibernates. I gave him dates and other details. He can't hide from it anymore.

 

I also know from experience that one must separate a person's qualities from the quality of a relationship with that person. I mean that a person may be a very good person but a relationship with him/her may not be a good one. So I must stop saying or thinking in response to the idea of ending the relationship that C is an amazing man. That is not the question at hand. I am not sure why I forgot this fact. However, this change in perspective has made all the fear, angst and confusion go away. By leaving the relationship, I will not be leaving him. I will be putting an end to a situation that is not healthy for both of us.

 

So now what? The relationship we had is over. The dynamic of that relationship has been shattered by me exposing, if you will, and confronting the issues. Given his avoidance tendencies, it is quite possible that he will opt out by disappearing once and for all. I gave him the option to say NO to my demands. He knows, of course, that saying no will spell the end. So... I have set a hard boundary. We are at a crossroads. We either move left or right, but move we must.

 

Should he opt to start afresh and confide in me, trust me to help, believe that I can help (all things I have realised were lacking in our relationship), then I will suggest counselling. I will not discuss seeing a counsellor unless he responds and agrees that we move forward with openness. I have made my position clear. Now it is up to him to make a few choices.

[findingnemo]

agree with expatinitaly - the real shocker here for me is the amount of time they've known each other and the amount of time they've been "dating" - 3 years? This isn't something most people would tolerate after 1 year, let alone 3 years.

 

And OP - the question is why do you truly want/need in a relationship? At our cores we need happiness and reciprocity. You're not married and it's not your obligation to help him. It's kind of you to want to do so - but the reality is - he may be too far gone to even be helped even if he's somewhat open to trying. Even if your physical, emotional, sexual, financial, adventure, daily, etc needs are met in other ways - why put up with it? And if all your needs are being met somehow - why are you in this to begin with?

 

I agree with you. And Expatinitaly. And others. Finally. I posted earlier about what I did and wait to see what happens.

 

When I focused on the relationship itself and removed C and his personality out of the equation, it became clear to me that it is not what I want. I had to flip the switch..kind of..in order to see what you are all saying.

 

And this is why I have been on Loveshack for a decade. It may hurt to hear what posters have to say but if you try to be open to their opinions, you will find the light at the end of the dark tunnel that brought you here.

[Versacehottie]

Glad you came to a conclusion and clarity. I think that is the best course is to be clear and relatively sure about what you want to do. He's come back all these times. It's fairly reasonable to assume if you disappear or don't put up with his behavior that he will come back again. Don't know what you should do if he does but probably put yourself first as always from now on; don't be a help to cover up his stuff; require things from him that will make it a relationship you would want; require him to go to counseling alone first; look for consistency before you jump back in.

 

Lastly, just because i commented on the cool story your older bf/friend stated, about money not solving his problems but people being the hand up that he needed every time. I was thinking conversely, if you ask people who have been hurt or burned in love that money has probably rarely really solved hurt or heartbreak and that people have been the source of that as well. So while these great anecdotes can guide people or give them hope or see life in a good way, your own intuition and situation and it's changing nature has to be the final deciding factor. It's a big mix of ingredients. Glad you have come to a decision. Good luck