Secure + Avoidant: How to Communicate...

[findingnemo]

I am dating a younger man. I am 45 and he is 31. We have known each other for over 7 years but only got together as a couple 3 years ago. He is an amazing person. Fun, intelligent, handsome, well-educated, loves reading..the works. Seemed perfect for me. Everybody loves him. One of the most eligible bachelors in town. Life of the party. That is what I always knew.

 

Here is the thing. We had the slowest start to a relationship that I have ever heard of. Sporadic sex. Disappearing acts. A real Houdini at times. Yet, when I query him, he tells me the truth. He was stressed about an issue at work or with his family. He is genuinely sorry and didn't mean to hurt me. He just needed space. When he is in, he is all in.

 

There are FOO issues. Panic attacks from the age of 8. He is a highly successful workaholic who seems to exhibit a classic avoidant attachment style in our relationship. Gets real close and then hibernates. Comes back like nothing happened. Usually he will disappear for a few days. This time it has been a month! I don't know what to do and I am going crazy waiting.

 

I know the easy way out. Leave him be. Get on with my life. But here is the thing, I have fallen in love with him and he with me. Unfortunately we live in a society where mental difficulties such as depression and anxiety are not taken seriously or if made public will attract unwanted attention.

 

I am aware of my own attachment style. Before this relationship, I was secure. I caught myself becoming uncharacteristically anxious and decided to do some research. Started by Googling "Players". That is how I discovered attachment styles. I am not reacting to his push/pull antics. I am not trying to rescue him like he is a lost puppy. I was able to withstand a week of radio silence but this is now too much for me.

 

Does anyone have advice about how I could reach him? How I could communicate with him in a way that feels safe for him? Get him to open up a bit and then see about getting him some help somewhere? I know that this is a long shot but I simply will not give up. I love him - avoidant or not. I just need to be able to have meaningful discussions with him about things so that I understand what triggers him.

[scooby-philly]

I am dating a younger man. I am 45 and he is 31. We have known each other for over 7 years but only got together as a couple 3 years ago. He is an amazing person. Fun, intelligent, handsome, well-educated, loves reading..the works. Seemed perfect for me. Everybody loves him. One of the most eligible bachelors in town. Life of the party. That is what I always knew.

 

Here is the thing. We had the slowest start to a relationship that I have ever heard of. Sporadic sex. Disappearing acts. A real Houdini at times. Yet, when I query him, he tells me the truth. He was stressed about an issue at work or with his family. He is genuinely sorry and didn't mean to hurt me. He just needed space. When he is in, he is all in.

 

There are FOO issues. Panic attacks from the age of 8. He is a highly successful workaholic who seems to exhibit a classic avoidant attachment style in our relationship. Gets real close and then hibernates. Comes back like nothing happened. Usually he will disappear for a few days. This time it has been a month! I don't know what to do and I am going crazy waiting.

 

I know the easy way out. Leave him be. Get on with my life. But here is the thing, I have fallen in love with him and he with me. Unfortunately we live in a society where mental difficulties such as depression and anxiety are not taken seriously or if made public will attract unwanted attention.

 

I am aware of my own attachment style. Before this relationship, I was secure. I caught myself becoming uncharacteristically anxious and decided to do some research. Started by Googling "Players". That is how I discovered attachment styles. I am not reacting to his push/pull antics. I am not trying to rescue him like he is a lost puppy. I was able to withstand a week of radio silence but this is now too much for me.

 

Does anyone have advice about how I could reach him? How I could communicate with him in a way that feels safe for him? Get him to open up a bit and then see about getting him some help somewhere? I know that this is a long shot but I simply will not give up. I love him - avoidant or not. I just need to be able to have meaningful discussions with him about things so that I understand what triggers him.

 

I'm not an expert and despite my years of self-work and growth, just discovered "attachment styles" in the past 7 weeks as my last relationship broke up. But I do know one thing - the person has to want to change. Maybe introduce him to the concept and/or help him get counseling or go together as a couple. But bottom line you need to start with a conversation with him, tell him how you feel, tell him what he does to you and how it makes you feel and tell him you may think he has x and that you want to be there for him but if you can't manage to put up with it then you will need to go if nothing changes. If he's open and willing to try that's your starting point. If not, then I'm sorry OP you may need to move on. :(

[Flame Aura]

A week of no contact at all? Whaaaaat?

 

 

You must love him a lot if you are willing to put up with selfish rubbish like that... I know I wouldn't put up with that.

 

 

You need to talk to him and tell him either he changes or you are out of the door. Simple.

[findingnemo]

I'm not an expert and despite my years of self-work and growth, just discovered "attachment styles" in the past 7 weeks as my last relationship broke up. But I do know one thing - the person has to want to change. Maybe introduce him to the concept and/or help him get counseling or go together as a couple. But bottom line you need to start with a conversation with him, tell him how you feel, tell him what he does to you and how it makes you feel and tell him you may think he has x and that you want to be there for him but if you can't manage to put up with it then you will need to go if nothing changes. If he's open and willing to try that's your starting point. If not, then I'm sorry OP you may need to move on. :(

 

A conversation with him, huh? I was worried that was the first step. Thank you. That means it will have to wait until he resurfaces and we plan to meet. It has got to be face to face. Seems like the only way that he is forthcoming. I don't know how I will begin to discuss it though. Arrrrgh!

 

I will also check and see if I can find a professional to go to with him.

[Gretchen12]

You do realize, that the only person a man can ignore and come back to, and still welcome him with open loving arms, is his mother. You're in that role. You have been coddling him and tolerating his behavior. He knows he can get away with it and he has come to love how you treat him. But when he becomes mentally better he will move on and expect you to be happy for him. Also I wonder if that safe environment you've provided isn't keeping him from improving.

[scooby-philly]

A conversation with him, huh? I was worried that was the first step. Thank you. That means it will have to wait until he resurfaces and we plan to meet. It has got to be face to face. Seems like the only way that he is forthcoming. I don't know how I will begin to discuss it though. Arrrrgh!

 

I will also check and see if I can find a professional to go to with him.

 

And to add to my thoughts - if you're unclear as to how to have the conversation with him perhaps you can find some literature between now and then as to how to approach things in a way that his "attachment style" would find safe or hopefully someone here will offer up something more profound than I can. But the simple fact that you're willing to try and that you're aware of needing to handle this in a delicate manners speaks to your love for him.

[findingnemo]

A week of no contact at all? Whaaaaat?

 

 

You must love him a lot if you are willing to put up with selfish rubbish like that... I know I wouldn't put up with that.

 

 

You need to talk to him and tell him either he changes or you are out of the door. Simple.

 

I hear you. My first reaction was pretty similar. I didn't tell him off though. Simply went quiet too. Figured that he had ghosted me. Although we were members of the same forums, I treated him like any other. When I bumped into him a week later at the premises of a certain company, I hugged him like I would friend. Like we'd never had anything special. He acted totally unfazed. I was terribly hurt.

 

But now I know what actually happened. He is extremely good at putting up a front. You would never know that he was hurt. He needs my help. If he rejects it, then we will have a problem.

[findingnemo]

And to add to my thoughts - if you're unclear as to how to have the conversation with him perhaps you can find some literature between now and then as to how to approach things in a way that his "attachment style" would find safe or hopefully someone here will offer up something more profound than I can. But the simple fact that you're willing to try and that you're aware of needing to handle this in a delicate manners speaks to your love for him.

 

That's a great idea. Let me do some more research.

[scooby-philly]

I hear you. My first reaction was pretty similar. I didn't tell him off though. Simply went quiet too. Figured that he had ghosted me. Although we were members of the same forums, I treated him like any other. When I bumped into him a week later at the premises of a certain company, I hugged him like I would friend. Like we'd never had anything special. He acted totally unfazed. I was terribly hurt.

 

But now I know what actually happened. He is extremely good at putting up a front. You would never know that he was hurt. He needs my help. If he rejects it, then we will have a problem.

 

A slight caution here. There's one thing to try and help your partner. It's another when you try to help someone who's not willing to help themselves. At 3 years, why are you not at least living together? I mean, look I don't judge people and I'm not in your shoes nor his. But if you said a week had gone by that's one thing. But a month? At this point your efforts sound a bit one sided and very very unreturned on his part. Do you want a partner or a fixer upper?

[ExpatInItaly]

I know you are in love, but he's been gone a month?

 

This is someone who is either incapable of maintaining a relationship, or is plain not serious about you and is doing just fine keeping things this casual.

 

I see you are trying to label him as avoidant, depressed, anxious and so on. While some of that may be true, you also need to be careful not to enable his noncommittal behaviour. The chances that he's going to be open to a conversation about how to make things better after a month of silence are very slim. You say he needs your help, but what puts you in a position to determine that? How are you qualified to help him? That sounds very self-righteous of you, if I may be blunt.

 

You need to draw the line for yourself somewhere. It doesn't appear to me that he is interested in dating you anymore. I'm sorry.

Edited October 8, 2019 by ExpatInItaly

[findingnemo]

You do realize, that the only person a man can ignore and come back to, and still welcome him with open loving arms, is his mother. You're in that role. You have been coddling him and tolerating his behavior. He knows he can get away with it and he has come to love how you treat him. But when he becomes mentally better he will move on and expect you to be happy for him. Also I wonder if that safe environment you've provided isn't keeping him from improving.

 

I needed to think about this for a bit before responding.

 

No, I have not been coddling him. I just didn't feel the need to have shouting matches with a man over how much time we did/did not spend together when it was clear that 1) he genuinely had feelings for me and 2) the relationship which began as a friendship was turning into something yet to be defined. Here I refer to the awkward progression in the first year.

 

By the time I decided that I was done, he and I had a talk. I learned a lot about him. His insecurities had nothing to do with me as a person. He'd had them all along but hid them well from everybody. I am not a saviour and have a lot on my plate (3 kids, school and work).

 

Does he want to get motherly love from me? It is possible. Does he see my love as a replacement of his mother's? Possible. I say that because an avoidant attachment style seems to have known causes according to my research.

 

I don't know if we will be together next month or next year. I don't know if his problem can be solved or managed. What I do know is that I love him and to abandon him due to his attachment style seems crazy. Flaky even. I have dated a number of men since my divorce and frankly speaking I am not in a hurry to remarry. I could do without the drama of dating too. Leaving him because I want a drama free life and using his problems as a reason feels immature to me. I am 100% aware that he can leave me at any time and I will be fine.

[ExpatInItaly]

How exactly would you be abandoning him when he’s already abandoned the relationship?

[findingnemo]

A slight caution here. There's one thing to try and help your partner. It's another when you try to help someone who's not willing to help themselves. At 3 years, why are you not at least living together? I mean, look I don't judge people and I'm not in your shoes nor his. But if you said a week had gone by that's one thing. But a month? At this point your efforts sound a bit one sided and very very unreturned on his part. Do you want a partner or a fixer upper?

 

Yeah. I didn't want to write a tome and distilled my post down to the basics. Last year, he got a promotion and is now heading a regional office about 4 hours away as the crow flies. So we are now in an LDR but see each other every 3 months or more. Living together is a huge step for me because I have 3 kids. We still have a long way to go before that happens.

 

Am I attracted to fixer uppers? No I am not. I have been running for the hills the minute I sense a potential problem with my dates. I resisted getting into this relationship like crazy due to his age and the fact that we had been friends but he allayed my fears. Does he want to solve his problem? I think he would be willing to if he knew what it was. Right now he believes that he is super independent, good at his work and the only problem he has is the panic attacks. He thinks that he doesn't need anyone really but then the reality is different. I suspect that he may have a clue that he has issues with relationships but I doubt very much that he knows that he is a classic avoidant.

[findingnemo]

How exactly would you be abandoning him when he’s already abandoned the relationship?

 

I don't know if he has abandoned the relationship. Under normal circumstances, I would assume that he had. But given the history, I don't know what is going on. Even if he has, I don't see anything wrong with me figuring out how to have the conversation with him.

 

You asked if I am not being self-righteous assuming that he has a problem that is not related to me. I don't know how to answer that question frankly. I had a choice to make early on. Abandon the relationship due to its weirdness or stay and deal with the issues. I chose the former at first. But I did it as a cop out. An auto response to tricky situations. Logic and my own personal issues said run but my heart was not so sure. When we talked and he confided in me, I stayed because deep down I know that something is terribly wrong that has nothing to do with me as a person. Now I am choosing to see if there is a way that I can reach him in order to know what comes next. Does that make sense?

[ExpatInItaly]

I think you’re twisting your into knots for a guy that doesn’t appear to have ever really had the same level of interest or investment as you.

 

You frame it as a problem he has that needs to be resolved. Where I sit, i see a guy who’s fine not having you in his life consistently and doesn’t feel it’s a problem that needs fixing. The problem here is that you viewed this as a serious relationship that still has a future, and he doesn’t.

 

A month of silence is your cue that he’s not into it anymore. He should have been direct and just told you that, but it’s up to you now to take the hint.

 

Ask yourself this: how will you feel if you do eventually talk to him and learn he’s seeing someone else?

Edited October 8, 2019 by ExpatInItaly

[findingnemo]

If I found out he was seeing someone else all along I would be angry. It would be over. As simple as that.

[Gretchen12]

I needed to think about this for a bit before responding.

 

No, I have not been coddling him. I just didn't feel the need to have shouting matches with a man over how much time we did/did not spend together when it was clear that 1) he genuinely had feelings for me and 2) the relationship which began as a friendship was turning into something yet to be defined. Here I refer to the awkward progression in the first year.

 

By the time I decided that I was done, he and I had a talk. I learned a lot about him. His insecurities had nothing to do with me as a person. He'd had them all along but hid them well from everybody. I am not a saviour and have a lot on my plate (3 kids, school and work).

 

Does he want to get motherly love from me? It is possible. Does he see my love as a replacement of his mother's? Possible. I say that because an avoidant attachment style seems to have known causes according to my research.

 

I don't know if we will be together next month or next year. I don't know if his problem can be solved or managed. What I do know is that I love him and to abandon him due to his attachment style seems crazy. Flaky even. I have dated a number of men since my divorce and frankly speaking I am not in a hurry to remarry. I could do without the drama of dating too. Leaving him because I want a drama free life and using his problems as a reason feels immature to me. I am 100% aware that he can leave me at any time and I will be fine.

 

It seems you did not understand what I was saying. That's okay. Your first post was well thought out. But I find your subsequent responses going into black and white thinking. "shouting matches"? Where did that come from? And I never said you should leave him.

 

I don't actually think him disappearing is a huge problem because women will react however suits them. That is, the particular woman's nature takes care of itself. If I want to welcome back a man who disappeared on me for 3 years, who's going to stop me? If I want to block a man who hasn't replied for 3 days, I need not justify my action. But you have no resolve.

[lurker74]

The short answer to your question is that you don't. It's on him. He has to want to change and change is not easy. It's likely impossible to expect him to change without the desire and the professional help. And his whole life, including being a successful workaholic, is designed around the causes of his attachment style.

 

 

The longer answer is that it is possible to help someone move from one style toward a secure attachment style by modeling the behavior that they are trying to achieve. He is avoidant so that he can keep himself from feeling the pain associated with what happened when he wasn't avoidant. So you make sure that he never has to feel like he needs to run. One way you do that is how you're already doing it - you are allowing him to run and accepting him back when he returns. But you need to figure out how to structure that so that he understands that while you accept him back, he needs to work toward you as well. Otherwise he just learns that leaving you is acceptable.

[Lotsgoingon]

Confession: this guy reminds me of myself when I was younger. So I'll be speaking from that experience.

 

You are right: Yes, he probably needs serious therapy for his FOO issues. Probably had a mom and/or dad who violated his boundaries, who didn't allow him to have his own views and feelings--without being shamed or criticized. As a result, he doesn't believe that he can be himself, a real person--with opinions, flaws, quirks and preferences--in a relationship.

 

When you're in this kind of thinking, you don't understand that you're allowed with a loved one to say no, yes, I'm not sure. I'd rather go to X movie than Y movie. I'd rather talk about this rather than that. No, I don't want to do what you want to do right now. Can we do that later? You also don't believe that you can be human and still be loved. So an intimate relationship becomes a pressure cooker.

 

He's working REALLY HARD to be a good guy, afraid that any mistake could lead to you disliking him. Unfortunately your words alone--even your actions of acceptance--won't undo that programming he has. It's a deep survival strategy at this point.

 

What makes this problem particularly hard to grow out of is that over time, you don't even know you're hiding, you don't even know you can be yourself more, you even lose an awareness of your own preferences. You'll just label yourself "immature" ... or someone with "commitment issues."

 

True story: I remember once travelling out of town with a gf. We ended up at a club playing blues music one night on this trip. Well, the AC was really turned up at this venue, and I was freezing. The hotel was only a five-minute walk away. At the end of the night, I mentioned that I was cold to my gf. She said, well why didn't you say something? You could have walked back to the hotel to get your jacket.

 

That idea NEVER remotely occurred to me. I thought my only option was to endure the cold AC. Can you see how dis-empowering and demoralizing such thinking (or non-thinking) is? It's likely your bf thinks like this. And a confounding problem is that even if you love him deeply and powerfully, he still will think he can only get that love by being a good boy who performs a certain way when with you. Or if you love him even though he messed up he's thinking I better not mess up again. Gotta get back to performing and being good--and hiding myself. And for him "messing up" could be something as meaninglessness as being tired one day when he sees you.

 

For example, right now ... having been out of touch with you ... he probably thinks you hate him--even though clearly you don't. He probably feels go guilty, like a failure. He also might have depression, and depression saps the energy to be social and destroys any sense that you can be a human being and be loved and accepted.

 

Yes, his work might be emotionally taxing, but that's not the problem. If his work stress ended, he would still have problems opening up and staying present--and not feeling exhausted in relationship.

 

The choice I come to in situations like this ... is ... if you want to "help" someone, it's usually best to do so as a friend. Helping someone with deep-seated problems and blocks like this guy has ... really not healthy to do that as a lover. You also have a bit of a conflict of interest. For him to get healthy, he may need to stop dating for a good while ... really stop dating ... even the idea of resuming at some point in the future can create suffocating pressure on a guy like this.

 

Good luck. He sounds like a good guy. You sound really emotionally healthy ... but ... he's got deeper problems for which there are not quick fixes.

 

The only thing I would say is make sure you tell him you still like him.

[ExpatInItaly]

If I found out he was seeing someone else all along I would be angry. It would be over. As simple as that.

 

Maybe I'm asking the obvious, but are (were) you two in an official relationship?

 

When was the last time you spent with him in person? What has happened in the month since he dropped off the radar - have you called? Or?

[norudder]

The choice I come to in situations like this ... is ... if you want to "help" someone, it's usually best to do so as a friend. Helping someone with deep-seated problems and blocks like this guy has ... really not healthy to do that as a lover. You also have a bit of a conflict of interest. For him to get healthy, he may need to stop dating for a good while ... really stop dating ... even the idea of resuming at some point in the future can create suffocating pressure on a guy like this.

 

Good luck. He sounds like a good guy. You sound really emotionally healthy ... but ... he's got deeper problems for which there are not quick fixes.

 

The only thing I would say is make sure you tell him you still like him.

 

As nice as this sounds how realistic is it would it be to actually be friends when she's in love with him? Shed have an agenda, even if subconscious. How healthy is it to continue suppressing your feelings and needs unreciprocated. Say she sticks around as "friend" and he works through his issues, most likely he'll say thanks, I'm ready for a relationship now but it won't be with her.

[Lotsgoingon]

Totally agree: it is unrealistic for her to stick around and be friends.

 

And that's the point ... if you really want to help someone and you can't be friends (because you want more) it's probably not your job to help them.

[findingnemo]

It seems you did not understand what I was saying. That's okay. Your first post was well thought out. But I find your subsequent responses going into black and white thinking. "shouting matches"? Where did that come from? And I never said you should leave him.

 

I don't actually think him disappearing is a huge problem because women will react however suits them. That is, the particular woman's nature takes care of itself. If I want to welcome back a man who disappeared on me for 3 years, who's going to stop me? If I want to block a man who hasn't replied for 3 days, I need not justify my action. But you have no resolve.

 

I am sorry I didn't understand what you were saying. I thought you were asking why I wasn't angry when he did the first disappearing acts. Thus the reference to shouting matches.

 

About resolve... I have no resolve to do what?

[findingnemo]

The short answer to your question is that you don't. It's on him. He has to want to change and change is not easy. It's likely impossible to expect him to change without the desire and the professional help. And his whole life, including being a successful workaholic, is designed around the causes of his attachment style.

 

 

The longer answer is that it is possible to help someone move from one style toward a secure attachment style by modeling the behavior that they are trying to achieve. He is avoidant so that he can keep himself from feeling the pain associated with what happened when he wasn't avoidant. So you make sure that he never has to feel like he needs to run. One way you do that is how you're already doing it - you are allowing him to run and accepting him back when he returns. But you need to figure out how to structure that so that he understands that while you accept him back, he needs to work toward you as well. Otherwise he just learns that leaving you is acceptable.

 

This is exactly what I am trying to achieve. You are better at explaining it than I am.

 

When he first "disappeared" for a week or so each time, I wasn't worried. It seemed to happen haphazardly and his excuse was always work related. Of course, I thought to myself that he may not be that into me. He prioritises work over me. Yet...if I had an emergency and let him know, he would drop everything and come over. It took me a while to notice that every time we got closer, had a deep discussion, or spent a weekend together he would go into his silent mode. There was a pattern.

 

I know that I cannot change him. I even suspected that wanting to make him realise that his behaviour is not normal was a tall order. So I came for advice. I suspected that he would be in touch even though it has been a whole month of silence. The longest period so far.

 

Oddly enough, he resurfaced today. As if nothing is wrong. A mutual friend resigned from a public job and he texted me to inform me about it. Hmmm. I, as usual, responded normally like nothing is wrong. As you said, I want to be informed when he needs space and for that space to be reasonable. But also what I read (typical avoidant behaviour) if true means that he needs help. Professional help and someone has to try and get him to be open to getting it. Me.

[scooby-philly]

This is exactly what I am trying to achieve. You are better at explaining it than I am.

 

When he first "disappeared" for a week or so each time, I wasn't worried. It seemed to happen haphazardly and his excuse was always work related. Of course, I thought to myself that he may not be that into me. He prioritises work over me. Yet...if I had an emergency and let him know, he would drop everything and come over. It took me a while to notice that every time we got closer, had a deep discussion, or spent a weekend together he would go into his silent mode. There was a pattern.

 

I know that I cannot change him. I even suspected that wanting to make him realise that his behaviour is not normal was a tall order. So I came for advice. I suspected that he would be in touch even though it has been a whole month of silence. The longest period so far.

 

Oddly enough, he resurfaced today. As if nothing is wrong. A mutual friend resigned from a public job and he texted me to inform me about it. Hmmm. I, as usual, responded normally like nothing is wrong. As you said, I want to be informed when he needs space and for that space to be reasonable. But also what I read (typical avoidant behaviour) if true means that he needs help. Professional help and someone has to try and get him to be open to getting it. Me.

 

OP,

 

To be honest - if you've been dating for three years and aren't living together, aren't engaged, and he ghosted you for a complete month - it's ridiculous to act as his savior. You allowed this behavior to go on for too long to the point now where you've only reinforced it and added to his life history of acting this way. If you feel you must confront him then do so and tell him but if you desire happiness and a fulfilling relationship you owe it to yourself to leave. Discovering how and why you let this go on for so long will help you address your underlying problems and lead to a much happier outcome for you in any future relationships.