What i wish i knew before dating

[DrNo1962]

This is a part informative and part therapeutic post about the subtle things I wish I knew before I started dating.

 

Whilst my perspective is clearly biased from a male's POV, I believe these can be interchangeable regardless of gender.

 

They may seem completely obvious to many, but it's taken me a long time to discover (through trial and error) what I consider to be universal truths about dating.

 

So without further delay and in no order of priority:

 

#1) Learn the difference between Interest Level & Investment:

A woman who shows high interest in you (saying yes to dates, positive body language, touch, kiss, sex, flattery etc.) is not an indicator of long term attachment. Here one day, gone the next. Interest level is fleeting. Learn not to read too much into it.

 

Investment is the amount of effort (physical and mental energy) a woman is willing to invest in you as a potential partner. Indicators of investment are thoughtfullness, compliance, opening up emotionally, deeper connections etc. These are greater indications that she sees you as something more than a short term fling.

 

#2) A woman's home is a great indication of her charachter:

As the saying goes "home is where the heart is".

 

If you are lucky enough to be granted access to your new date's home and assuming she has lived there for a significant amount of time, her house will be a the best indication of her true character (or at least her current stage in personal growth).

 

If her apartment/home, is warm, inviting & clean then it is a good indication she has her **** together and enjoys being hospitable. She takes pride in her personal space as it is the first thing she sees in the morning and last thing as she goes to bed.

 

On the other hand if her place resembles an empty shell where the only two activities that look like taking place in there are sleeping & sex, then she most likely has a lot of growing up to do and lacks the stability to have a fruitful partnership with you. This should be a red flag.

 

#3) Her academic achievements & occupation are not indicators of "High Value":

We can often get blindsided by someone's personal achievements particularly through academia and the job market. It's a very positive trait no doubt and points to a woman's intellect. However it has very little causative effect on a person's good/bad behaviour. The fact is there are good/bad people in all walks of life. Emotional Intellegence is far more important than academic excellecence.

 

#4) Trust your gut & rip the band-aid off ASAP:

This one goes without saying, but if you find yourself visiting the loveshack forum or any other site for dating advice, it's most likely the case that your gut is telling you something is not quite right with your date.

 

Whilst the brain is great for logic/reason and making informed decisions, your gut is a great fight or flight self preservation mechanism that warns you about danger ahead. The quicker you can get to the bottom of your gut feelings the faster you can decide whether to stay of leave. Make it quick though, don't drag it out.

 

#5) Don't take part in dating games. Be direct and move things forward.

 

Hesitation and holding back is the fuel for dating games & mind-****ery. If you want to extract yourself from dating games, start by moving things forward through direct communication and action.

 

#6) A woman is a compliment to your life, not the centre of your universe.

No woman should be knocking you off your centre or stopping you from pursuiing your goals, aspirations and purpose in life. You don't have to drop everything that is important to you just because you receive a text message from her.

 

Having a great partner should be a compliment to your already fruitful and fulfilling life. She is your support to help you achieve your potential and you are the same for her.

 

If you find a woman is taking up too much of your mental capacity or time away from climbing mountains (metaphorically) due to mind-****ery, then you must resolve this ASAP and decide whether the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

Whilst this is no comprehensive list by any means, I hope this helps at least a few of you out there looking for some clarity in your dating lives.

[lonelyplanetmoon]

I am a F.

I agree with #1.

But the rest, yeah... no.

[Mrin]

Pretty good advice IMHO.

 

As a dude, the other thing I would say is that if you're looking for a relationship and you're interested in a lady you need to show her a consistent level of interest. This is especially true as things progress or escalate. She is a super computer running all sorts of analysis and projections. You're a calculator from the 1980's. She is a crayon box with 256 colors and a sharpener. You're the emotional equivalent of the crayon pack they give to kids at restaurant. You have - red, half a stick of blue and some yellow.

 

If you are interested be steady Eddie and let her figure out how she feels about you. All of this push/pull game crap makes a woman insecure and uncertain - which can work like a champ if you're just wanting to seduce her and have sex. But if you want to get into a relationship you need to show her a consistent level of interest and let her get comfortable with her feelings about you.

[scooby-philly]

So,

 

I agree with some and disagree with some and some it's too contextual for a yes/no.

 

Working backwards because #1 is vital for men with low self-esteem, little dating history, or emotional issues that need help and it's #1 on my list of things I had to learn (or still need to learn?)

 

#6

Mostly agree.

 

I am not a believer in the whole concept that people should have awesome lives and boom, someone comes in an fills in as a partner like a "compliment". Don't get me wrong - some of what you described is, to me, 100% accurate - people should support, nurture, champion, defend, etc., their partner. But using the word "compliment" reinforces the idea that things will be easy or that you shouldn't be the one to make the first sacrifice, etc. The question is - if the shoe was on the other foot, would my partner do the same for me. And yes, mind games/drama, etc has no place in mature dating - but most people today aren't really mature. But again - I caution - any relationship that lasts 5,10,20,50 years - both parties will make sacrifices and such - the goal is to find someone who loves you as deeply as you love them. I know lots of people who simply want someone to fill in the empty slots on their calendars. That's not for me

 

#5

Agree.

 

If you're over 22 it's time to say goodbye to drama/games. This is especially true for good men. No one will think less of you for walking away from something that isn't healthy or someone that isn't mature nor will you lose your "good man" status from those that understand what a good man is. That doesn't mean you can't be with someone who needs a little improvement on their communication skills, but it's not your job to rescue/save them

 

#4

Mostly agree

 

Related to #5 - you can walk away from things that aren't healthy. And you should - for you and for them. You don't need to be an a-hole about it. And if the other person is willing to listen, you can state clearly what you need, how they don't provide it, and if they're really willing, you can try to highlight ways they need to work on themselves (if there's one or more major roadblocks) - and if you are able - and they're not emotionally unstable, immature, etc - then you can listen to what they have to say to learn something about yourself. But, if they're not mature and stable, avoid that conversation as they will likely just lash out and try to mind f you - purposefully or by nature. But it's also important to talk about your gut to yourself (journaling, taking a walk, exercising, etc) and talking to a trusted friend or family member. With my last ex, there were signs early on that despite her sometimes caring attitude and gentleness and the personality I was hoping to find, she wasn't comfortable with herself, she hid parts of her personality from people, and more. Now there was also an age gap so it comes down to her being immature and inexperienced and I was partly to blame for staying even though my needs weren't not met, she didn't listen, she had double standards for a lot of things, she was immature, and mostly - if they shoe was on the other foot, a lot of things she would not do for me. So while she had the "personality" i was looking for, it was a false front. To that point, I should have recognized I was hooked by the "feelings" of being in a relationship - not by what she tried or did or said for me. And to your point, the gut is our flight/fight center and I knew it wasn't meant to be but kept trying because I didn't understand i needed to listen to it

 

#3

Somewhat agree

 

Yes, a person's "achievements" are not a mirror into their soul or personality. Lots of "successful" people are vain, shallow, selfish, greedy, fake, even psychopathic. And lots of "average" people are kind, warm, friendly, would give you the shirt off their backs, etc. The real question for a person to decide is - what balance am I okay with. No one is a perfect partner or person. I'm sure there are couples with 10,25,60 years under their belts where one wished the other was more....x,y,z, - interested in sex, social, educated, etc. - the question is - given all of their traits, is this person compatible with my wants/needs, can I meet their wants/needs and do we have the same communication, commitment, and love to keep at it forever. And EI isn't the whole thing. A lot of people have high EI that are slimy, snakes who'd as soon stab you in the back as help you - just like anything else, it's not what you have but how you use it. (insert penis joke)

 

#2

Totally disagree

 

Not sure where you got this "revelation" from. Sure, there's probably a correlation between a person's home and their personality/lifestyle to a certain extent. But there's also economic factors to keep in mind among other things. Yes, a 35 yr old woman who's never been married and owns her own home for 5+ years should not have an empty place....but just because a 25 yr old does doesn't mean she's not a good catch for someone and ready for something real.

 

#1

Totally, totally agree

 

This has been the hardest lesson of my life. I spent 6 years after college doing missionary work when, tbh, I wasn't really religious. I was just lost in life (decent parents but they didn't provide direction/emotional support) and it was an "out". I've had 3 ltrs since leaving and seriously starting dating 9 years ago. In all 3 cases, in my time in service, and with friendships, I've never been able to realize that I give and look to help other by default but that I don't express my needs, I have an attachment disorder (10x better now then when I was 28 or 18) (I'm preoccupied if you know about the styles) due to my parents and grandmother threatening to leave me and each other growing up, and that I stick with people/things even when my gut screams - "HELL NO".

 

A woman who shows high interest in you doesn't equate to true, meaningful love. You could be convenience. You could be the best option they feel they could have, you could be fulfilling their parents' idea of an ideal mate which they need to satisfy, and 1,000,000 other things. Investment is, as you said OP - about effort. That doesn't mean physical by itself. I'll give you one example from my last relationship. My birthday is in June. My ex always complained that she felt bad I paid for most things b/c she didn't have a lot of money and was still working on her education. That didn't bother me. For my b-day I said - instead of buying me stuff, why don't we spend 4 weekends in the summer doing stuff I wanted to do. Something history related, something outdoors, something food, and then something like an amusement park. She said okay. We did historical thing first....it was a pretty good day. We didn't do anything else before my bday - then it fell on a weekday so on the saturday after me, being stupid, says - we don't have to do one of my things - we could do something else if she wanted. She wanted to go to the beach. Okay - I don't dislike the beach. We go. She's miserable b/c it's windy and the sand is stingy, then when I cut it short so she won't be upset I accidentally got sand all over her when I was lifting our big blanket up from the ground. She got mad at me and then we argued on the way back to the car and then I made a comment or something and she just got out of the car and said she would uber back home - which would be like $50 or something. And she walked away. I should have left her then. What adult would do something like that to their partner? But I chased after her with my car and that was the day I should have left for good b/c she said she wasn't sure if she wanted a relationship - and I waited 2 months till she dropped me for good. So, instead of celebrating my birthday, she ruined it. That, for me, should have been the sign - when someone stops putting effort into you - especially something like your birthday, that means they don't care as much any more. I share that story because to be frank, I needed to as part of my healing process - but to also say - yes it works for men too - that in the case of women I can see where from my reading and years of learning and conversations - women will build things up around you to keep you if they want you - but if they don't care any more, they let you go mentally before they do physically.

[manfrombelow2]

Totally agree with OP. Especially number 6. Man I wish I knew this 10-15 years ago.

 

A woman, no matter how hot she looks or how amazingly she performs on bed, is at best a nice compliment to a man's life, not his entire life.

 

Keep up the good work.

Edited September 23, 2019 by thaygiaogiang

[smackie9]

Missing one...positive attitude. Someone who has a positive attitude doesn't let the small stuff create drama and she can cope/adapt well when issues arise.

 

 

 

Nothing worse than a guy settling for a fixer upper or rescuing someone who has mental issues. As we say on the forums to those "Run forest run!"to many whom have posted threads on here.

[justwhoiam]

#1) Learn the difference between Interest Level & Investment

I agree.

#2) A woman's home is a great indication of her charachter

I tend to agree with this, generally speaking.

#3) Her academic achievements & occupation are not indicators of "High Value"

I agree, though it might prove character strength (but not necessarily).

#4) Trust your gut & rip the band-aid off ASAP

. I partially agree: it's just that some people's sixth sense is not that good.

#5) Don't take part in dating games. Be direct and move things forward.

I don't fully agree, because men tend to think that everything's a game or trick being played on them.

#6) A woman is a compliment to your life, not the centre of your universe.

That's the fear of loving... so I'd expect you to make the leap when you get engaged and you're not simply dating anymore.

[scooby-philly]

Missing one...positive attitude. Someone who has a positive attitude doesn't let the small stuff create drama and she can cope/adapt well when issues arise.

 

 

 

Nothing worse than a guy settling for a fixer upper or rescuing someone who has mental issues. As we say on the forums to those "Run forest run!"to many whom have posted threads on here.

 

For me, it's been settling for people who aren't emotionally mature, open, and communicative and aren't generally kind, honest, and caring/nurturing.

[SumGuy]

DrNo 1962

I'd be interested in how your dating success went before and after these realizations. That is did you find you were meeting more people and finding better relationships compared to before?

 

...

 

#1) Learn the difference between Interest Level & Investment:

Agreed a pretty self evident statement, in fact one that applies probably far more to men than women.

 

A woman who shows high interest in you (saying yes to dates, positive body language, touch, kiss, sex, flattery etc.) is not an indicator of long term attachment. Here one day, gone the next. Interest level is fleeting. Learn not to read too much into it.

Your conflating a lot of things into interest and I suspect a lot of women view having sex an investment and not just interest.

 

I don't think interest is as fleeting as you imply. Interest that is sustained often turns into investment, although only into as much investment as she is seeking. In addition, she may well want to take some time, months, years, before the highest levels. After all men are notorious for being the ones not to invest.

 

If women you are seeing lose interest quickly, in my view you are seeking the wrong women and/or turning them off somehow.

 

Lastly as I understand the word compliance I would not call it investment.

 

#2) A woman's home is a great indication of her charachter:

The extreme example maybe yes, it's more an indicator to her lifestyle and what she values with respect to material things and her time.

 

It may very well be an indicator of compatibility, but to elevate that to character I think is a personal bias. One could say a well tended home that is neat and everything in order is more like a museum than a home, and shows a preoccupation with material things and keeping up with the jones. While a Spartan environment shows she is more focused on inner things and adverse to the crass materialism that is unquestionably followed by the mainstream. See how that at works? It can be very easy to spin appearances into "substance."

 

#3) Her academic achievements & occupation are not indicators of "High Value":

Pretty sure we have completely different ideas of the definition of "high value," not sure it ever meant nice or good. Emotional Intelligence also does not equate to good, in fact the worst you will meet are emotionally intelligent, they just use it to manipulate.

 

I thought "high value" meant women that were can do, and not in needing of rescue, along with intelligent and attractive. Certainly achievement can be aided and driven by mental/personality disorders (have you read the Sociopath Next Door?), but they do indicate a can do ability and usually intelligence.

 

Now if you are looking for a woman who will take care of you, yah a high achieving person in those categories likely wants none of that.

 

#4) Trust your gut & rip the band-aid off ASAP:

Yes and no. All depends on how good our gut is. Most peoples "guts" are just a collection of their prejudices that are not necessarily very accurate. Better to look at actual behavior that disturbs you, objectively, and see if it is toxic or fits with what you want. Then use your "gut" to overcome your insecurity in ending things that are not working.

 

#5) Don't take part in dating games. Be direct and move things forward.

Yes! Although I don't know what you mean by games exactly or move things forward.

I'm of the camp, meet early, like ask within a week of first messaging. It is the best way to tell. Of course do it safely.

 

#6) A woman is a compliment to your life, not the centre of your universe.

I agree with this advice to the extent you should find someone who likes you for you and wants you to be you. I'm not one for one partner living solely for the other.

 

That said, even how you expressed it, is often taken as cover for being selfish. For me in any long term intimate relationship, there is you, me and us. If we both don't work and feed the us, there really is no together, just mutual convenience and an enlightened transaction. That may be what one wants.

[Gretchen12]

I'm surprised #6 even needed to be said. "Center of the universe"? That's just wacky. You can be a devoted partner but God never meant for us to live to worship another human being.

If I was giving advice to a young man, I'd tell him to be more selective. And this is related to your #1. Don't be like those male cartoon characters that go crazy whenever they see something in a dress and heels batting its eyelashes. Don't be cheap. Don't sleep around. The worst mentality is one where the guy thinks "I'll take what I can get, it's free sex, I have nothing to lose." Well, you do have something to lose.

[seeyoung87]

I love everything about what you wrote.

[scooby-philly]

I'm surprised #6 even needed to be said. "Center of the universe"? That's just wacky. You can be a devoted partner but God never meant for us to live to worship another human being.

If I was giving advice to a young man, I'd tell him to be more selective. And this is related to your #1. Don't be like those male cartoon characters that go crazy whenever they see something in a dress and heels batting its eyelashes. Don't be cheap. Don't sleep around. The worst mentality is one where the guy thinks "I'll take what I can get, it's free sex, I have nothing to lose." Well, you do have something to lose.

 

Agree with this so much - except the "sleep around". I'm not saying that you should sleep with anyone or use anyeone. But sex is wonderful. But - the rest of it - I needed, or still need, to learn. Just because someone says they will be with you - doesn't mean you should say yes. If you're not on the same page with what you want, if you're not in the same place in life, if you don't know how to communicate, then you don't need to stay just because she likes you, is willing to be with you, or to be the "nice guy".

[Gaeta]

I think you're in for a surprise with #2. I know women with little emotional intelligence who are eaten inside by jealousy and control and their home is like the top page of a magazine. A home that is too kept could also indicate a control issue and maybe struggling with priorities.

[elaine567]

He's looking for a housekeeper...

[smackie9]

Well I think you can sort of gauge a person by what their place looks like, but it takes more than a glace. My friend had a date with a friend's brother. Everything looked ok until she had to use the bathroom. There was a poopoo skid mark on the seat. She said nope, and left. It turns out the sister did tell her brother to clean it up. So that does say something.

[TheFinalWord]

That's so true about a woman's home!

 

I remember one time I was dating a girl and she seemed pretty cool. Then I saw her car...just nasty. Fast food bags everywhere, piles of trash. Her car was more like a trash can than a car. Like level 10 dirty. A person that can wallow in a nasty car/house, especially a woman, does tell you something about them, I think.

 

With the mind game part, yes and no. If you come across as no challenge at all, it's counter intuitive, but a lot of women will start to think they can do better. Interestingly, the point you made about not making her the center of your universe can kind of take care of this. If you have other things going on besides her, that will indirectly make you more of a challenge and will keep her interest.