Financial & other differences

[HusbandFather77]

First post here. I'm looking for some advice and support on my situation with my wife of 14 years. We have a 12yo daughter and three large dogs.

 

Finances are a big point of contention in our relationship. We have a ton of debt including various credit cards and my wife has well over 100k in student loan debt. I have done everything I can to try and get her to stick to a budget and try to get our debts paid down. My wife makes a pretty good income and I was too up until about 5 years ago when I became disabled. My wife wants all these things with the primary being a new house with almost double our current mortgage payment. I know we can't afford this an I explained many times why. She doesn't seem to comprehend this. It has been an epic struggle to even get her to agree to a budget in the first place. She constantly shames me saying that it's all my fault because I became disabled among other things. The details aren't so much important as the things that are going on. We got into it today because I cancelled pet insurance policies because it was costing us $300 a month and we really can't afford it and I don't agree with the expenditure. She had a complete meltdown and is turning my daughter against me with my daughter saying if anything happens to the dogs it will be all my fault.

 

My wife is very negative all the time, we really don't have intimate relations because I am just not attracted to her for a number of reasons. The way she treats me makes me not want to be around her add onto that she weighs over 300 lbs and refuses to change her diet or exercise even though she has multiple health problems. The crazy thing is the other day she tells me she want to spend 20k on IVF treatments to have another baby. She refuses to see a financial counselor and insists she wants to do all these things and "make it work" which to me is code for spend now and then figure out how to pay for it later. Our debt situation is so bad that I know we will not be approved for a home loan and she tried to get financing for IVF about 2 years ago and was turned down due to our debt situation.

 

I have a plan to get us out of debt and try to get her the things that she wants but it requires sacrifice and discipline and I feel like giving up when at every turn she wants to do battle with me. It's not just the finances either. It seems like everything I want she wants the exact opposite and wants to fight about it at every turn.

 

At this point I just left and went to my mom's to take a time out. I'm just not sure the marriage is able to be saved. I can't continue to live like this as its affecting my physical and mental health. The constant negativity, shaming, bringing up the past and constantly talking about we should have done this or that. I am very now and future focused and I can't see myself living like this. I'm 42 years old and I am so mentally and physically exhausted I can't even argue anymore. I honestly feel happy when she is not around and I dread when she comes home.

 

My big concern is the affect all of this is having on our daughter and how to get out of this with minimal damage to her.

[mark clemson]

This probably won't address the marital issues (which are clearly substantial), but consider if any of the below will work for you.

 

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/off-topic/water-cooler/684295-posting-case-some-may-find-way-useful

[preraph]

I think you probably ought to divorce or file bankruptcy against her wishes. That will leave her without credit cards. She hasn't any sense. She is in denial about her finances. Attorneys also cost money so nothing is cheap, as they say. It doesn't cost much to file bankruptcy. It will stop her from buying a house, but you need to make sure you can file it as a couple and it won't just be you. A bankruptcy attorney should be able to answer that or maybe even someone on this forum. Since she has that lump of big debt, I don't know if divorce will protect you from having to share that, but it depends on state laws. Maybe it's whatever you come into the marriage with, you leave with. Don't know if she amassed that before or after marrying you.

 

Look, do what is right for you and straighten your daughter out when she blames you for stuff. And by the way, a family court attorney will strongly dislike your wife for putting ideas like that into her head. They hate when parents put kids in the middle. So if you do go down that road, YOU be the one who stays always calm and reasonable in front of the judge and in front of anyone else and never put anything nasty in writing or text or voicemail.

[schlumpy]

I got an anxiety attack from just reading your post.

 

You will need expert advice. My understanding of student loans are that they are not included in a bankruptcy proceeding if they are federal.

 

You are in a very serious position that could possibly financially ruin you for life. She has to brought to reason or you will need to separate yourself financially from your wife. If that means divorce then divorce it is.

 

It seems to me you two have more then most people. You certainly have attained a higher living standard then I did at your age. There really is no reason that you can't have a bright future if you just lower your sights a bit. What is her objections to your plan?

 

Tell her to make more money.

[HusbandFather77]

I know it's bad. Pretty much all the debt is in her name. She has a government security clearance so I don't think she can go bankrupt without losing her job. I honestly feel like I'm living in the twilight zone dealing with her. It has become progressively worse over the last few years. I just know I can't continue to live this way. Of course she blames everything on me which is fine...nothing I can do to change her thinking.

[BettyDraper]

If you are in so much debt, you cannot afford the cost of looking after 3 dogs.

Pets are a luxury item especially if you have more than one.

[HusbandFather77]

If you are in so much debt, you cannot afford the cost of looking after 3 dogs.

Pets are a luxury item especially if you have more than one.

 

Betty you think logically. I am a logical person as well. My wife unfortunately doesn't think this way which is the major problem here. Very often I feel like banging my head against the wall in frustration because no matter how much I try to reason with her none of it gets through. I love the dogs but I don't want the responsibility. $150 a month for food and another $100 a month for pet waste removal. This doesn't include the wear and tear on the house and the property. There are many issues at play here.

[Mr. Lucky]

$150 a month for food and another $100 a month for pet waste removal.

 

If you have a tween-ager, why are you paying for poop scooping?

 

HusbandFather77, on a practical basis, how would you support yourself post divorce, especially given potential fallout from your current financial situation?

 

I'd cancel all the non-necessities and pay for marriage counseling. It sounds like a necessity...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Big Aus]

So you don't want to make love to your wife, because she's fat?

Instead you nag her about being fat?

I presume that since she so physically repulses you, that casual affection is also gone?

There is a scientific term for this. It's called: "You're an Ass."

 

Try getting your **** together, act like a man, and give your wife (and the mother of your child) the love, affection and respect she deserves.

 

You clearly have a weed up your bum about the dogs, and lets be honest here, cancelling pet-insurance was just your way of being a spiteful douche.

And yet you blame you wife for trying to alienate your daughter???

Did your disability involve being dropped on your head?

Here's a tip for you, if you ever want your daughter to speak to you again, trying to get rid of the dogs is not your smartest move.

 

You haven't said what your disability is? Must be quite severe to stop you from working?

Did or do you receive any compensation or insurance money?

 

Believe me, I understand that being in your situation must be terribly emasculating, but you need to come to terms with it. I imagine you feel, that being physically disabled, then at least running the finances is something you can still do.

Unfortunately your wife doesn't see it that way. It's the 21st century, she earns the money, and she expects to be in control of it.

My advice: Let her.

If you have any money or income of your own, keep it separate. If not, swallow your pride and ask her for pocket money. Then let her take care of the rest.

 

Look, I know where you're coming from. Spending money we didn't have was my ex's favourite hobby. BUT, you're never going to change that, and since its not your money you won't even be able to control it. So just let it go.

[HusbandFather77]

So you don't want to make love to your wife, because she's fat?

Instead you nag her about being fat?

I presume that since she so physically repulses you, that casual affection is also gone?

There is a scientific term for this. It's called: "You're an Ass."

 

Try getting your **** together, act like a man, and give your wife (and the mother of your child) the love, affection and respect she deserves.

 

You clearly have a weed up your bum about the dogs, and lets be honest here, cancelling pet-insurance was just your way of being a spiteful douche.

And yet you blame you wife for trying to alienate your daughter???

Did your disability involve being dropped on your head?

Here's a tip for you, if you ever want your daughter to speak to you again, trying to get rid of the dogs is not your smartest move.

 

You haven't said what your disability is? Must be quite severe to stop you from working?

Did or do you receive any compensation or insurance money?

 

Believe me, I understand that being in your situation must be terribly emasculating, but you need to come to terms with it. I imagine you feel, that being physically disabled, then at least running the finances is something you can still do.

Unfortunately your wife doesn't see it that way. It's the 21st century, she earns the money, and she expects to be in control of it.

My advice: Let her.

If you have any money or income of your own, keep it separate. If not, swallow your pride and ask her for pocket money. Then let her take care of the rest.

 

Look, I know where you're coming from. Spending money we didn't have was my ex's favourite hobby. BUT, you're never going to change that, and since its not your money you won't even be able to control it. So just let it go.

 

Wow did I just read this? So glad your behind a computer and that I dont have to deal with you in real life. Your completely insensitive response can be summed up simply as "suck it up" with all the rest of the condescending insults left out. Sound more like you have something up your bum when you feel the need to post a response like this. Dropped on my head really? I think it's the other way around my friend.

 

Look most of your questions can be answered by simply saying it's none of your damn business. I appreciate your attempt at providing some useful advice here though.

 

I'm not trying to get rid of all the dogs. I am well aware than would hurt my daughter. As far as the rest of it it makes no sense to me. All other issues aside I'm being treated poorly on the daily and I'm not happy with the situation. We have agreed to seek some counseling as a last ditch effort to try and work things out. You may be right that the money situation may never be able to be worked out. Look the fact of the matter is that I am not happy and I deserve to be happy with my life. She obviously isn't happy either so maybe this is not something that can be worked out. I just dont know but what I am experiencing is not normal or tolerable for the long haul. Hopefully your not in the business of doling out marriage advice because this is the worst advice I have read in a long time.

Edited September 10, 2019 by HusbandFather77

[HusbandFather77]

If you have a tween-ager, why are you paying for poop scooping?

 

HusbandFather77, on a practical basis, how would you support yourself post divorce, especially given potential fallout from your current financial situation?

 

I'd cancel all the non-necessities and pay for marriage counseling. It sounds like a necessity...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Thanks Mr. Lucky and good questions. I dont know why my daughter wouldn't pick up the poo. I dont think I would be successful in trying to get her to do that. I'm the one who usually has to care for the dogs most of the time. It's enough to try and get her to do basic stuff like let them out or feed them.

 

The financial aspect is a good question. Most of the debts are in her name and if I had to take them on it would most certainly bankrupt me. The big thing here is her job which I dont want to jeopardize...if I stay or if I go either way the finances have to be dealt with because of the potential to affect her employment.

 

We just can't agree on anything anymore and I dont know how we move forward. We are going to get some counseling and see where things go from there.

 

This stuff is just not normal and I can't continue to be in the relationship if it continues on the current course.

[spiritedaway2003]

Financial compatibility is huge. People have divorced over money. Imagine if one is a saver and the other on is a spender...

 

I'm sorry you became disabled and lost that income source (hopefully, you have disability benefit income that helps to stabilize your financial situation). Your wife should not blame you for that (ouch). Also, buying a house that has a mortgage that doubles your current one (with all the existing debt) doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense.

 

1. Can you two go to a financial counselor who could sit with you both and figure how much you can afford, with all the debt that she has? Maybe that way, she'll understand that it's not just you trying to set a budget but that it's the most rational thing to do?

 

2. I don't have any pets myself, but it seems a bit risky to cancel pet insurance. From what I heard from others, I know vet bills add up if anything happens. No advice there, if you need to cut down on expenses while taking on some risks.

 

3. Negativity: It's something she has to be aware of (sometimes people don't know how negative they can be). You might have to talk to her about it, especially if it's affecting your intimacy with her (and your marriage). MC could potentially help here? Left unchecked - and the weight issue - it has the potential to keep driving the wedge even wider between you two.

 

4. 20K on IVF. Ready to have another kid with everything that's going on in your life?

 

5. I'm glad to hear that you've got a plan to get out of debt. It can be done, but make sure you're on the same page and that she's with you on the same plan. Otherwise, there will be more grumbles along the way.

 

Sometimes a short break helps with sanity. If it's continuing to physical and mental health, take care of yourself first. Then roll up your sleeve and think about where you guys are heading towards for the long term if you stay the course. And if there's a way to make things better.

 

Damage to your daughter? In terms of how all the discord is currently affecting her? Or are you actually talking about divorce?

 

I agree with another poster here. You need advice from experts (financial and marriage) for the best way forward. Good luck.

[Ruby Slippers]

I should get paid a referral bonus for how often I genuinely recommend him, but check out personal finance expert Dave Ramsey on YouTube. He often gives advice to married people in disharmony with their mate over finances.

 

He'd recommend marriage counseling, then if that doesn't work, making a clean break with assets in divorce.

 

Marriage without agreement on finances is a rocky road.

[HusbandFather77]

spiritedaway2003, thank you for the very well crafted response. There are a lot of issues going on here for sure.

 

1) I have asked and she has agreed to go and see a financial counselor with me. She had refused previously so this is a step in the right direction.

 

2) It seems risky but I researched this thoroughly based on previous pet ownership experiences and research online it is rarely a good deal to have pet insurance. We were paying about $3,500 per year and that amount quickly becomes much more than addressing pet health issues on a case-by-case. This is another fundamental disagreement I have with my wife. She wants to keep the pets alive by all means possible with no regard for what the pets have to go through and who has to care for the ill pets. When our last two pets had cancer I was the one doing all the caring. I had to inject the one dog to provide fluids twice daily for 6-9 months. I had to fight her to have the dog put down when it could no longer walk and was urinating on itself and she still didn't want to have him put down. The vet pushed the issue and my wife was very resentful after that because she felt like she was pressured to put the dog down. The female dog also got cancer and my wife had another surgery on her and he only lasted two days after the surgery and passed away in the middle of the night while we were all asleep. I never got a chance to say goodbye to her. In both cases I am from the school of thought that as a responsible pet owner the best gift you can give your dogs is to not put them through all this pain and suffering and to know when its time to put them down. Both surgeries were against my wishes but I went along with them like I always have with everything else.

 

3) I have talked to her many many times about the negativity and the shaming and so forth. She somehow makes excuses that its all because I am making her unhappy. We will be going to MC at the end of the month and I will bring this issue up again because it has not only persisted but gotten worse over the past couple of years. The weight issues I can overlook if she was just nice to me...but my bigger concern with the weight is her health. Would I like her to lose 150 lbs...sure but I would much rather get some of the other issues dealt with first and the weight would be the last thing on the list at this point in time.

 

4) Apparently so. I told her that it seems very selfish of her to want to bring another child into all of this and that it made me feel like this was only about what she wanted with no consideration of others including the unborn child. She wanted it approximately two years ago and I told her we couldn't afford it. She insisted and so I told her to go ahead and apply for the financing. Of course we were turned down due to all the revolving debt we have. She seemed surprised but I was not.

 

5) Yes, the finances are going well right now ...everything is getting paid on time and we aren't being charged late fees or overdrafts like we were before. It was a complete mess what was going on. There isn't enough positive cash flow in order to get out of debt overnight and so this will take discipline, hard work, and time in order to start seeing the positive progress. She thinks the answer is making more money and while that would certainly help we also have to spend less money while we are doing it.

 

With regard to our daughter its mainly about all the discord right now. I am also concerned long term that if we can't work things out she will be the one that has to pay the price if we wind up getting divorced. She is only 12 years old and at a very sensitive stage right now. She is always telling my wife "mommy just stop". She can see that my wife is being abusive toward me and that it is bothering me. I have switched gears now and mainly just try to ignore her and get up and walk away. Until we can get in front of a MC I just try to avoid her abuse. If she starts on the phone I cut the call short and if she starts at home I get up and go in another room. Eventually though it gets to be too much which is why I wound up staying away at mom's for three days. The weekends are especially tough because she is home all the time. When she is really bad she will follow me around the house wherever I go and continue the verbal abuse. If she starts doing that again my only option is to leave again. This is only my second day back and I can see it progressively getting worse even though I am only really talking to her about basic stuff like picking my daughter up from school, getting the car worked on, etc. Unless the MC is able to make a breakthrough I have to say it just isn't looking good at all at this point in time.

 

Thank you to everyone for the responses. I am very grateful to you folks who took the time to read my story and respond with your help and support.

[Blanco]

I'm sure her being the breadwinner is stressful, but it's not you aren't responsible for her happiness. She is. And vice versa. Someone who is morbidly obese, spending like a maniac, and chronic negative is clearly someone who is deeply unhappy with both themselves and their life.

 

I don't even know where to begin, honestly. It sounds like a terrible situation. You guys are basically only missing infidelity to complete the Miserable Marriage Bingo.

 

The finances alone would be a tremendous strain on any relationship. One thing I've come to really know about finances is that it doesn't matter how much money you make if you spend it all and more. What on earth is her degree in that she has that much student debt this far into life? You guys already sound like you're behind the 8 ball and she wants to upgrade the house? Again, this is one of those things that's going to only worsen the situation without providing any true contentedness to your life. Honestly, she sounds like she's consuming everything she can (material things and food) as a means to coping with a deeply-rooted unhappiness. That's obviously not working.

[Blanco]

So you don't want to make love to your wife, because she's fat?

Instead you nag her about being fat?

I presume that since she so physically repulses you, that casual affection is also gone?

There is a scientific term for this. It's called: "You're an Ass."

 

Try getting your **** together, act like a man, and give your wife (and the mother of your child) the love, affection and respect she deserves.

 

You clearly have a weed up your bum about the dogs, and lets be honest here, cancelling pet-insurance was just your way of being a spiteful douche.

And yet you blame you wife for trying to alienate your daughter???

Did your disability involve being dropped on your head?

Here's a tip for you, if you ever want your daughter to speak to you again, trying to get rid of the dogs is not your smartest move.

 

You haven't said what your disability is? Must be quite severe to stop you from working?

Did or do you receive any compensation or insurance money?

 

Believe me, I understand that being in your situation must be terribly emasculating, but you need to come to terms with it. I imagine you feel, that being physically disabled, then at least running the finances is something you can still do.

Unfortunately your wife doesn't see it that way. It's the 21st century, she earns the money, and she expects to be in control of it.

My advice: Let her.

If you have any money or income of your own, keep it separate. If not, swallow your pride and ask her for pocket money. Then let her take care of the rest.

 

Look, I know where you're coming from. Spending money we didn't have was my ex's favourite hobby. BUT, you're never going to change that, and since its not your money you won't even be able to control it. So just let it go.

 

This is unnecessarily harsh, unhelpful, and, based on your other threads, some projection on your part.

[Marc878]

So you don't want to make love to your wife, because she's fat?

Instead you nag her about being fat?

I presume that since she so physically repulses you, that casual affection is also gone?

There is a scientific term for this. It's called: "You're an Ass."

 

Try getting your **** together, act like a man, and give your wife (and the mother of your child) the love, affection and respect she deserves.

 

You clearly have a weed up your bum about the dogs, and lets be honest here, cancelling pet-insurance was just your way of being a spiteful douche.

And yet you blame you wife for trying to alienate your daughter???

Did your disability involve being dropped on your head?

Here's a tip for you, if you ever want your daughter to speak to you again, trying to get rid of the dogs is not your smartest move.

 

You haven't said what your disability is? Must be quite severe to stop you from working?

Did or do you receive any compensation or insurance money?

 

Believe me, I understand that being in your situation must be terribly emasculating, but you need to come to terms with it. I imagine you feel, that being physically disabled, then at least running the finances is something you can still do.

Unfortunately your wife doesn't see it that way. It's the 21st century, she earns the money, and she expects to be in control of it.

My advice: Let her.

If you have any money or income of your own, keep it separate. If not, swallow your pride and ask her for pocket money. Then let her take care of the rest.

 

Look, I know where you're coming from. Spending money we didn't have was my ex's favourite hobby. BUT, you're never going to change that, and since its not your money you won't even be able to control it. So just let it go.

 

You must be a doormat.

 

At 300lbs and her attitude I wouldn't touch her either.

 

I wouldn't be talking I'd have already had D papers filed.

 

When you get dealt a hand this bad it's better to fold it.

[HusbandFather77]

Yes, she is clearly very unhappy. I asked her why she is so miserable and she denies that she is unhappy and starts going on about how successful she is in her career etc. On the breadwinner issue the only problem I have with her there is that she is always rubbing it in my face and instead of saying we or ours she says me and mine.

 

Yes she wants to upgrade the house and I tried to explain this very thing to her that it's only going to make things worse financially which will lead to more stress in the marriage. The thing that baffles me is that early in her career she worked briefly at Consumer Credit Counseling and back then she used to tell me about all the debt people were in with little hope of resolving. I even brought that up to her and asked her how could you think these things are a good idea when you used to work with people in financial turmoil for a living. That usually bring us back to the denial of us even having a problem.

 

The student loans were deferred many many times over the years. Now they are coming due again within the next month and we are going to have to start paying on them. Her parents are now retired and they made a very good living while they were working. My wife has a younger sister and they paid for all her schooling and they pay for half of my wife's leaving us to pay for the other half. I feel like her parents were able and should have paid for all of her schooling but I'm not going to do battle with them too. I just dont have the energy for that. She has her Masters in business administration at this point.

 

I feel like she needs professional help on her own but she refuses to do that and denies there is a problem.

[HusbandFather77]

You must be a doormat.

 

At 300lbs and her attitude I wouldn't touch her either.

 

I wouldn't be talking I'd have already had D papers filed.

 

When you get dealt a hand this bad it's better to fold it.

 

I don't think I am a doormat but I certainly feel like one for sure. I take my marriage vows very seriously which is why I have tried to work through this for as long as I have. It may be time to fold but I want to at least try the MC because its important to me that I have tried everything before I make the decision to leave permanently. I must admit that I am not so optimistic about a positive outcome here though.

[Mr. Lucky]

She has her Masters in business administration at this point.

 

I feel like she needs professional help on her own but she refuses to do that and denies there is a problem.

 

Given her degree and background in credit counseling, it almost makes your situation the very definition of ironic.

 

I admire your commitment to your marriage and agree MC, assuming she’ll attend, offers nothing but upside.

 

But were I you, I’d also be seriously considering the logistics of a very different future. Where would you live? How would you handle or discharge your debts? Would you expect she’d pay you alimony and/or child support?

 

Lots to consider...

 

Mr. Lucky

[HusbandFather77]

Given her degree and background in credit counseling, it almost makes your situation the very definition of ironic.

 

I admire your commitment to your marriage and agree MC, assuming she’ll attend, offers nothing but upside.

 

But were I you, I’d also be seriously considering the logistics of a very different future. Where would you live? How would you handle or discharge your debts? Would you expect she’d pay you alimony and/or child support?

 

Lots to consider...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Very True. We are in Maryland. I have a place to go and will probably visit an attorney if the MC doesn't yield any results. Might be some positive news on the debts front based on the following from divorcesource:

 

"The Maryland Court cannot divide debts between spouses upon divorce. Therefore, one spouse cannot be held liable for the other spouse's debts. Spouses are jointly liable for debts in their joint names, although the Court cannot require either spouse to satisfy joint debts."

 

I would expect she pay alimony but I don't see how she would be able to afford it with all her debts. She would also need to sell or refi the family home. My wife makes a lot of threats too and one of the things she threatened to do is make my life as difficult as possible if I ever left her. Granted she made that threat a couple of years ago but she doesn't let things go without a fight. I don't think I have much of a chance of getting custody of my daughter and I don't know if that would be a good thing to do anyway. Besides exposing our daughter to the discord in our marriage she is otherwise a good mother to her. I would be happy with joint custody and generous visitation.

[Mr. Lucky]

I would expect she pay alimony but I don't see how she would be able to afford it with all her debts.

 

It's not a choice, alimony is court-ordered and enforced. It also can't be discharged through BK.

 

I don't think I have much of a chance of getting custody of my daughter and I don't know if that would be a good thing to do anyway. Besides exposing our daughter to the discord in our marriage she is otherwise a good mother to her. I would be happy with joint custody and generous visitation.

 

Since she works and you don't, you might be able to get creative with custody to address child care, etc. If it comes to this, make sure you find an attorney you have a good rapport with and not someone interested in just pushing paper...

 

Mr. Lucky

[elaine567]

I get your wife is not what you want, things are strained and and you want to leave.

But as a disabled person who cannot work, how are you doing to manage financially?

Is your disability progressive?

How will you cope if you are on your own?

[preraph]

My two cents: Once you take on pets, they're your responsibility to care for. They don't cost that much.

[HusbandFather77]

I get your wife is not what you want, things are strained and and you want to leave.

But as a disabled person who cannot work, how are you doing to manage financially?

Is your disability progressive?

How will you cope if you are on your own?

 

All your questions are valid. I choose not to discuss my disability as I want to keep that private. I have some things in place to manage financially though admittedly it will not be easy. I think I can cope just fine on my own honestly...I am working with a therapist on my own also which is a big help to me. My thought process is that I can't put a price on my physical and mental health and while it will be tough I have faith in god that I will be able to make it through if it comes to that.

 

My wife has changed so much over the years. Its not that she isn't what I want but rather the relationship itself isn't what I want because its harming me. Deep down I know my wife has a good heart...but even so ...the way things are going right now aren't good for me and me is the only thing I have control over at this point. I can't force her to change and my attempts at communication have so far failed.