Early dates and he won't even buy me a drink?

[Art_Critic]

A generous person is generous from the start, they don't start out cheap, act cheap then all of a sudden turn on being generous..

 

The guy is cheap... period...

 

If you can live with it and many people can then let it ride.. he may drop some of the 50/50 crap but he most likely will never be all that generous with the wallet...

It does sound like he is only looking for hookups.. but I will say during my dating years I did that and had NSA relationships and was still generous and paid for dates all the time....

[babybrowns]

Thank you all for your replies so far, you have been helping me really open my eyes to this. In another situation I would say that the guy is just looking for hookups, however I don't feel it is the case here. I have told him I am a person who moves slow and that it'll be a while before I am comfortable sleeping with him, he respects that.

 

He wants to do fun things with me which revolve around hobbies we share. He is planning things months in advance with me, remembered that my birthday is in 2 months and says he'll be sure to be free around that time and asks what I am thinking of doing for it. So this paying for dates thing is in contrast to everything else which seems to be going well. Nevertheless I can't just shut off my feelings on this, I agree it is extreme the way he is avoiding paying, it does hurt and he has no idea how it's making me feel. I can't help but link it to what he said about not being 100% over his ex.

Edited September 4, 2019 by babybrowns

[preraph]

Imagine what a nightmare it would be if you accidentally got pregnant with him. He never pay a dime in child support.

[Veronica73]

Thank you all for your replies so far, you have been helping me really open my eyes to this. In another situation I would say that the guy is just looking for hookups, however I don't feel it is the case here. I have told him I am a person who moves slow and that it'll be a while before I am comfortable sleeping with him, he respects that.

 

He wants to do fun things with me which revolve around hobbies we share. He is planning things months in advance with me, remembered that my birthday is in 2 months and says he'll be sure to be free around that time and asks what I am thinking of doing for it. So this paying for dates thing is in contrast to everything else which seems to be going well. Nevertheless I can't just shut off my feelings on this, I agree it is extreme the way he is avoiding paying, it does hurt and he has no idea how it's making me feel. I can't help but link it to what he said about not being 100% over his ex.

 

I don’t know. From what you said, he does seem like an attentive guy in other respects. But at the same time....sometimes you get those gut feelings and you try to explain them away and then regret it later. Because you ignored the red flags. But it’s hard sometimes to tell if something is REALLY a red flag. Maybe talk to him about it in a non-confrontational way?: :0 And wait and see what happens.

[babybrowns]

I don’t know. From what you said, he does seem like an attentive guy in other respects. But at the same time....sometimes you get those gut feelings and you try to explain them away and then regret it later. Because you ignored the red flags. But it’s hard sometimes to tell if something is REALLY a red flag. Maybe talk to him about it in a non-confrontational way?: :0 And wait and see what happens.

 

Thanks. I am wary of talking about it with him just incase he does get the false impression, at this early stage that I am a gold-digger. It's who he is and if he doesn't have the desire to treat me to a glass of beer, it's helping to serve as an eye opener/reminder that I shouldn't take him too seriously. I do really enjoy his company, the date does have a sad part when the check comes but oh well, gentle reminders that he's not all that serious about me.

Edited September 4, 2019 by babybrowns

[Shining One]

I suggest you drive across town and meet up with him for dinner and drinks, and then say you're going to the bathroom and sneak out leaving him to pay the bill.

I'd recommend against this. This man is in legal trouble for repeatedly doing what you suggest. He did it enough times to reach the grand theft threshold, which I doubt the OP would do, but it's still not worth the potential hassle.

[Ruby Slippers]

Do you want to get married and have kids? If so, like all women, you're hard-wired to prefer a mate who proves he can be the sole provider for the time when you're having and raising babies.

 

Across species, females are turned off by signs the male is not willing to prove his capability to provide, as it's an indicator he's not serious about commitment = huge turnoff for the woman.

 

Don't let "feminism" make you feel bad for being a woman and wanting a good man.

[spiderowl]

He sounds mean to me. He will probably carry on this vein. Is that what you would like?

[alphamale]

He sounds mean to me. He will probably carry on this vein. Is that what you would like?

 

He’s shown exactly who he is (cheap!) -is that what you want?

 

If not... you really owe him no explanations.

 

yea but he got her a gift when he was on vacay and he texts her everyday

[d0nnivain]

I have told him I am a person who moves slow and that it'll be a while before I am comfortable sleeping with him, he respects that.

 

He wants to do fun things with me which revolve around hobbies we share. He is planning things months in advance with me, remembered that my birthday is in 2 months and says he'll be sure to be free around that time and asks what I am thinking of doing for it. So this paying for dates thing is in contrast to everything else which seems to be going well.

 

I can't help but link it to what he said about not being 100% over his ex.

 

Perhaps he sees this as a transaction. When you start putting out he will start paying. Sounds like a lousy basis for a relationship.

 

He can be a good person -- fun, interesting, thoughtful -- and still be stingy.

 

I don't see it as him not being over his EX. It may be a bad reaction to the break up. He may feel she used him for money or something & now he is being miserly.

[salparadise]

Perhaps he sees this as a transaction. When you start putting out he will start paying.

 

Good point. Or perhaps he's the only duck in the room who does NOT think of dating as transactional.

[CollinW]

You shouldn't need someone to pay for something in order to feel comfortable with him being into you. It's an excuse to make dating transactional for women, as I sure there have been many men who have bought you drinks and weren't into you.

 

And the idea that if a man isn't generous up front he will never be is nothing more than a tactic used by womem to socially punish those who don't submit financially to women who are essentially strangers.

[CollinW]

That’s all well and good - but still doesn’t make up for the consistent cheap moves he makes when he takes her out.

 

Most times being cheap is what someone was taught - a learned behavior that’s difficult to expect it to change.

 

It really takes the fun out of living.

 

If she doesn’t like it she shouldn’t see him again. She can literally go to a bar alone and buy herself a drink. He’s disappointing.

If he is cheap then what does that make her?

 

I did't see anything about her offering to buy his drinks. If treating is such an important and relevant issue then her offering to pay for both drinks would be a show of goodwill would it not?

[CollinW]

She didn’t say she intended to be cheap.

 

I’m big on the person paying for a date if you are the one who invited.

 

He has shown evidence he’s consistently cheap. That’s a signal sent that he doesn’t value her enough to buy her a beer.

 

C’mon, how can you not view that as evidence he’s a cheapskate?

No it's a signal that he's going to treat her exactly how she treats him until further progress is made.

 

And I normally subscribe to the idea that whoever's asks pays. But the reality is that one, women rarely ask anyway solely because they don't want to be responsible for planning and paying.

 

And two, dating nowadays is completely bilateral. Years ago women had to be implored to date due to the implications of being a wife and the demands that came with it. Nowadays men initiating is nothing more than a formality. Womem are out seeking a husband the same way men are seeking wives. If a woman wants to date and has interest in a man, she shouldn't be absolved of accountability just because she didn't ask.

 

It's not about being a cheapskate, its about dating on a level playing field with no entitlement.

[d0nnivain]

And the idea that if a man isn't generous up front he will never be is nothing more than a tactic used by women to socially punish those who don't submit financially to women who are essentially strangers.

 

My husband is not a generous man by nature. It takes a lot for him to give of himself in any manner. He does it & has been over the top in spoiling me but it's not his 1st instinct. I "made" him volunteer to help out at his VFW on Memorial Day & he grumbled. He finally kind of got it . . . in terms of his obligation . . .when several people pointed out how hard I was working & I wasn't even a member of the Post. The attitude instilled in me is that those with more have an obligation to step up & help out the less fortunate.

 

When we 1st started dating his cheapness really bothered me. He once said to me "I don't buy women drinks." I thought that was kind of a jerky attitude. He was a bad tipper. My father mentioned his stinginess to me & my dad was always tight with a buck.

 

Over the years following my example DH has become more generous. He's also a good tipper now; he has figured out what that gets him so he's fine. He really likes the fact that when he walks into certain bars, the staff reaches over top of other people to hand him his drink.

 

One of the ways I changed that early dynamic in our relationship was to treat him the way I wanted to be treated. On our 1st two dates he took me to places I didn't really care for. I set up our 3rd date to a place I liked (way more expensive & elegant than where he took me). We walked in. I was called by name & I paid the check with a generous tip. I always paid my share. A few months in, we were somewhere & I wanted a $2 pair of flip flops but I had no cash & didn't want to charge them so I flirted with him & asked him to buy me the flip flops. Then I took him out for drinks because I could charge those.

 

Over the years DH has really spoiled me & I once asked him how he went from the guy who wouldn't buy a woman a drink to being married to high maintenance me. His answer surprised me. He said I am not high maintenance because I don't expect or rely on a man to give me nice things; if I want something I just go buy it myself. To him the fact that I don't need him to pay for me, makes him want to be more generous. His attitude stemmed from a fear of being taken advantage of. (most of his family is terrible with money & as a result they don't have any).

 

Given the fact that finances ruin more marriages then a lot of other issues, the two people involved need to be on the same page about money. If babybrowns has concerns about how the money dynamic is working she needs to find out more about the source of the guy's attitude about money. If he really is just a stingy person, she may be well served steering clear. If she is unwilling to figure it out, she can't just stay there & be annoyed. That will just cause resentment to build up.

 

To the extent that the playing field is or should be more level the above may be my personal examples of how that played out. There remains something off putting about the way the OP's guy is going about it though. It'd be more elegant if he paid for the 1st round of drinks then said, "next round is on you."

Edited September 5, 2019 by d0nnivain

[oldtruck]

Because of my age, a man, if I was single I would always pay for

the woman on a date.

 

Though todays women demand equality. Then complain when on a

date that the man will not pay for them.

 

How about women tell the truth that they want equality except when

it comes to paying for dates.

[amaysngrace]

My daughter pays for dates. She treated her BF to a massage and they share the bill when they go someplace. Not penny for penny though. They just take turns.

[Rayce]

I think in makes sense in an established relationship to share the burden of paying for dates and outings. Being old fashion though I really want the guy to "court" me and that includes paying for those dates that help establish the relationship.

[CollinW]

 

To the extent that the playing field is or should be more level the above may be my personal examples of how that played out. There remains something off putting about the way the OP's guy is going about it though. It'd be more elegant if he paid for the 1st round of drinks then said, "next round is on you."

This is usually how I do it as it's just easier, but regardless whatever criticisms he faces also need to be extended to the OP. She had the same opportunities to pay the full bill as he did and put the next round on him.

[crispytoast]

I agree with the general consensus that the guy sounds a little cheap. Taking it to such an extent is not really the most attractive thing. Im much more in the take turns buying rounds camp. With that being said, to every woman here saying you expect to have your drinks or dinner or whatever bought on your early dates :rolleyes: puhleeze why don't you buy me a drink? Not saying I would never buy drinks or dinner for my partner but if I ever got the feeling that it was expected, I'd be very turned off and that would likely be the last date. I have so much more of interest about myself than my purchasing power and if whether or not I bought your drinks or dinner on a first date is the deal breaker, then goodbye and good riddance. Sorry not sorry.

[salparadise]

He has shown evidence he’s consistently cheap. That’s a signal sent that he doesn’t value her enough to buy her a beer.

 

Excuse me, but she hasn't sent such a signal either as far as I can tell, even though she's had opportunity. I liked Basil's response on page one –– she could've easily set the tone by buying first round.

 

But that's not what this is about is it? What most of the "ladies" are squawking about here is that he's not exhibiting the deference behaviors, indicating that she is inherently more valuable than he, and therefore he should ingratiate himself.

 

It'd be more elegant if he paid for the 1st round of drinks then said, "next round is on you."

 

Exactly, buying the first round and saying "you can get the next round" would accomplished the same thing; communicating that he has the egalitarian perspective without it being awkward.

 

I see the guy's perspective clearly, I just think he needs to be smoother socially. Personally, I am tired-tired-tired of buying sh*t for strangers I'll never see again due to some archaic expectation regarding the value of eggs vs. sperm. It's total bullsh*t. I'm not looking for a dependent-wifey to stay home and cook and clean and pop out babies. I'm looking for a life partner, evolved and conscious.

 

I think it' funny how a "he didn't pay for me" thread brings the hatchet women out of the woods. If they could catch this interloper they'd burn his ass at the stake! How dare he buck their system.

Edited September 5, 2019 by salparadise

[d0nnivain]

I think it' funny how a "he didn't pay for me" thread brings the hatchet women out of the woods. If they could catch this interloper they'd burn his ass at the stake! How dare he buck their system.

 

We aren't all saying money, money, money grab as much as you can from some unsuspecting guy. It's more about romance, being socially savvy, and generosity of spirit. I know I'm a high wage earner so even as a woman I often expected to have to pay but I still wanted to feel valued.

 

I think this guy is a good guy in other ways. The OP pointed out that he's attentive & remembers things. This one issue though & they way he went about it is just sooooo off-putting.

 

As for her not stepping up either some old fashioned stereotypes die hard.

 

Before the OP gives this guy the old heave-ho, perhaps she should offer to treat the guy at least once to see what kind of a reaction that gets. If he doesn't open up about his views or fails to reciprocate, then we can move on from him because there is just something that isn't coming across as he values her.

[Ruby Slippers]

I think it' funny how a "he didn't pay for me" thread brings the hatchet women out of the woods. If they could catch this interloper they'd burn his ass at the stake! How dare he buck their system.

Any decent mother or father would tell their daughter to dump this guy. With his attitude, he won't get anywhere with a halfway decent woman.

[d0nnivain]

Any decent mother or father would tell their daughter to dump this guy. With his attitude, he won't get anywhere with a halfway decent woman.

 

Let's not paint him as a total write off. The OP did highlight several good qualities especially in post # 28:

• he texts daily
  
  
   
  
  
• he bought her a gift when he was away
  
  
   
  
  
• he remembered her birthday day
  
  
   
  
  
• they have shared hobbies which they enjoy doing together
  
  
   
  
  
• he is respectful of her desire to "go slow"
  
  
   
  
  
• he adjusts his schedule for her
  
  
   
  
  
• She described him as a ray of light
  
  

 

The only bad thing is how he handled the financial aspects.

[alphamale]

Let's not paint him as a total write off. The OP did highlight several good qualities especially in post # 28:

• he texts daily
  
  
   
  
  
• he bought her a gift when he was away
  
  
   
  
  
• he remembered her birthday day
  
  
   
  
  
• they have shared hobbies which they enjoy doing together
  
  
   
  
  
• he is respectful of her desire to "go slow"
  
  
   
  
  
• he adjusts his schedule for her
  
  
   
  
  
• She described him as a ray of light
  
  

 

The only bad thing is how he handled the financial aspects.

 

that's what I've been trying to say, he's more good than bad