Becoming 2nd Dad

[Big Aus]

So as mentioned elsewhere I have been chatting to a couple of ladies, and looking to move beyond chat.

 

This lady has four kids, aged from around 7 to 13, and its clear she wants a new "Father figure in their lives"

I love kids, and conceptually I would love to be a Dad to them.

But who am I kidding.

I'll never be their Dad, they have a Dad, and whilst he's apparently an arsehole, that doesn't mean he stops being their Dad.

Best I can hope for is to be tolerated, maybe accepted, and perhaps even "liked" as "Mum's new Hubby."

And whilst long-term that's fine, I just worry that for the next 10 years I'll be biting off a world of hurt?

 

And don't misunderstand, this is all VERY future-tense. My question is whether such a relationship is even worth pursuing?

[Happy Lemming]

Just my opinion here...

 

I never date "single mothers". I let "single dads" date the "single mothers". (I have no children)

 

I did try to date a single mother once and it was a disaster. In addition to the mother always bashing and complaining about the bio-dad, the kid was mouthy and disrespectful and I was always being asked to make up any "financial shortfall" the mother ran into that month. I didn't make the kid, why should I have to "chip in" to raise this child. I was just the new boyfriend, yet I was treated as a human ATM machine.

 

And this woman has 4 kids... OMG!! Dude, run... run hard & run fast.

 

NEXT!!

[Gaeta]

Why such a negative view on the role of step-fathers? I have examples around me of how important step-fathers and step-mothers have become to many children. A child's heart is capable of loving a father AND a step-father. It doesn't take away from the father to love and appreciate a step-father. Children are filters, they can tell when your heart is genuine or not. It's not a simple thing to win a child's love but when you get there it's worth all the patience and effort. When my ex-husband remarried our daughter was still a teen, she grew to love and appreciate this woman and it didn't take anything away from the love she has for me.

[Gaeta]

Just my opinion here...

 

I never date "single mothers". I let "single dads" date the "single mothers". (I have no children)

 

I did try to date a single mother once and it was a disaster. In addition to the mother always bashing and complaining about the bio-dad, the kid was mouthy and disrespectful and I was always being asked to make up any "financial shortfall" the mother ran into that month. I didn't make the kid, why should I have to "chip in" to raise this child. I was just the new boyfriend, yet I was treated as a human ATM machine.

 

And this woman has 4 kids... OMG!! Dude, run... run hard & run fast.

 

NEXT!!

 

 

And I dated a man that had full custody of his 4 daughters running from 16 to 3 and they were all good obedient kids, well behaved, funny to be around.

[Mr. Lucky]

So as mentioned elsewhere I have been chatting to a couple of ladies, and looking to move beyond chat.

 

If you've only been chatting with them, isn't the notion of marriage and step-parenting way off in the distance?

 

I'd focus on understanding if the relationship works for you on a one-on-one basis first and be cautious about any attempt to prematurely inject you into family life...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mrs._December]

So as mentioned elsewhere I have been chatting to a couple of ladies, and looking to move beyond chat.

 

This lady has four kids, aged from around 7 to 13, and its clear she wants a new "Father figure in their lives"

I love kids, and conceptually I would love to be a Dad to them.

But who am I kidding.

I'll never be their Dad, they have a Dad, and whilst he's apparently an arsehole, that doesn't mean he stops being their Dad.

Best I can hope for is to be tolerated, maybe accepted, and perhaps even "liked" as "Mum's new Hubby."

And whilst long-term that's fine, I just worry that for the next 10 years I'll be biting off a world of hurt?

 

And don't misunderstand, this is all VERY future-tense. My question is whether such a relationship is even worth pursuing?

Ugh. I can't imagine why any man would sign up for this, but some men do.

 

Find a woman and have your own kids with her. It's not your job in life to clean up after some jerk who had a bunch of kids with a woman and is no longer parenting them. Basically, all you'd be doing is making HER life easier by being a paycheck and an extra set of hands for her.

[Mrs._December]

Just my opinion here...

 

I never date "single mothers". I let "single dads" date the "single mothers". (I have no children)

 

I did try to date a single mother once and it was a disaster. In addition to the mother always bashing and complaining about the bio-dad, the kid was mouthy and disrespectful and I was always being asked to make up any "financial shortfall" the mother ran into that month. I didn't make the kid, why should I have to "chip in" to raise this child. I was just the new boyfriend, yet I was treated as a human ATM machine.

 

And this woman has 4 kids... OMG!! Dude, run... run hard & run fast.

 

NEXT!!

I'm a female and I agree with every single word you said.

[Big Aus]

My kids are all adults.

I won't digress too far, but suffice to say that I'd be more than happy if this relationship progressed and we could be a "happy family."

My question is, what are the chances?

Even the youngest is too old to ever accept me as surrogate Dad, and the oldest are entering teenage-arsehole age

[Happy Lemming]

OK... You've raised your children to adults, great job! Why would you want to take on some other guy's family and finish raising his kids? I don't understand why you would "sign on" for such a herculean task. We are talking about 4 minor children, that's a lot!!

 

Now is the time to start contributing to your retirement plan(s) and start thinking about your golden years, not funneling money into 4 kids that aren't your responsibility. What if all four of these kids want to go to college?? They are going to be looking at you for some sort of assistance, because Mom isn't looking for a "father figure" for those kids, she is looking for a human ATM machine.

 

You want to know your chances at becoming a "Happy Family"... slim to none.

 

Why not date someone who has also finished raising her kids?? Someone in a similar situation, where you are both on the same level.

[Mr. Lucky]

My question is, what are the chances?

 

There are a lot of satisfying relationships you could have with the kids other than "surrogate Dad". My adult son is still friends with my ex-wife's LTR BF, though they eventually broke up.

 

The biggest part would be understanding the role - financial and otherwise - this potential partner sees for you. Again, you're putting the cart way before the horse...

 

Mr. Lucky

[AMarriedMan]

On 8/19/2019 at 5:57 PM, Happy Lemming said:

I did try to date a single mother once and it was a disaster. In addition to the mother always bashing and complaining about the bio-dad, the kid was mouthy and disrespectful and I was always being asked to make up any "financial shortfall" the mother ran into that month. I didn't make the kid, why should I have to "chip in" to raise this child. I was just the new boyfriend, yet I was treated as a human ATM machine.

I doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to realize that the above is the likely outcome of shacking up with or even dating a single mom of four or even fewer kids.

I'd much rather not date anyone ever again than put myself in a position like that. 

Being a step dad can go wrong in so many ways. The most likely outcome is being treated as an outsider, tolerated at best, except when it comes to handing out money. In a way, an even worse outcome would be to first become a fully accepted member of the family and developing a genuinely good relationship with the kids and bonding with them only to fall out with the mother and get dumped by her. After that, a former step dad has zero rights when it comes to seeing the kids and the kids have zero rights to him. Ditto for an ex step mother.

Blended families, no thank you. 

[vla1120]

Your question really depends on the circumstances and the people involved. Not every step child is an a-hole. Not every step parent is an a-hole. I understand why it is a question you would want to ponder before you get any more serious with any of the ladies you are currently chatting up, but if I were you, I'd make sure there were absolutely ZERO red flags about ANYTHING before I would even consider becoming involved with someone who has four kids in that age range. 

If you do find yourself advancing your relationship with this woman, I would make it perfectly clear from day one that:

#1 - You are not trying to be their parent, and that you respect their mother's right to use the parenting technique they've been accustomed to from birth, even if you don't necessarily agree with it.

#2 - You (if you choose) are willing to take on a mentor-type role for them, and they can come to you with any problems. 

#3 - Regardless of how their father behaves, you will not bad mouth him, and you will encourage their mother not to bad mouth him in front of them.

#4 - If you were to marry this person, make damn sure it's going to work out. If it doesn't work out, you divorce her - not them. I am still involved with my step-daughter from my first husband. I divorced her dad, not her. If you are willing to become involved in these kids' lives, you need to be prepared for that possibility, since second marriages have an even higher divorce rate than first marriages.

Or.....you could pass on single moms and try to find someone with no children or grown children, like you.

[Mrin]

50 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

Your question really depends on the circumstances and the people involved. Not every step child is an a-hole. Not every step parent is an a-hole. I understand why it is a question you would want to ponder before you get any more serious with any of the ladies you are currently chatting up, but if I were you, I'd make sure there were absolutely ZERO red flags about ANYTHING before I would even consider becoming involved with someone who has four kids in that age range. 

If you do find yourself advancing your relationship with this woman, I would make it perfectly clear from day one that:

#1 - You are not trying to be their parent, and that you respect their mother's right to use the parenting technique they've been accustomed to from birth, even if you don't necessarily agree with it.

#2 - You (if you choose) are willing to take on a mentor-type role for them, and they can come to you with any problems. 

#3 - Regardless of how their father behaves, you will not bad mouth him, and you will encourage their mother not to bad mouth him in front of them.

#4 - If you were to marry this person, make damn sure it's going to work out. If it doesn't work out, you divorce her - not them. I am still involved with my step-daughter from my first husband. I divorced her dad, not her. If you are willing to become involved in these kids' lives, you need to be prepared for that possibility, since second marriages have an even higher divorce rate than first marriages.

Or.....you could pass on single moms and try to find someone with no children or grown children, like you.

Single dad here who has been in a multi-year relationship with a single mom. 

 

This. ^^^^^ every single word of it is spot on. 

[major_merrick]

I think it really depends on how the kids act.  Sometimes it is a disaster, other times it works out.  They are old enough that it isn't like you can replace their biological father, nor should you try.  But if they are open you could be a successful stepdad. 

My husband is stepdad to three kids with Wife #4.  They are currently in the same age range as your GF's children.  Wife #4's previous husband was a good father, but he died.  While two of the kids are old enough that they remember their father very clearly, they still respect their stepdad and have a good relationship with him.  He treats them the same as he treats any of his own kids.  I suppose having bio father still in the picture could be more difficult. 

Just evaluate the situation and make sure you spend plenty of time with the kids.  I know that single moms often protect their kids from the new boyfriend, but you really have to "interview" the entire family because you're buying a package deal.  Just another question - is your GF wanting any more children?  I think the hardest thing for my husband's stepkids has been their mother getting pregnant...sort of brings it home that "life isn't the same anymore." 

[Kitty Tantrum]

I can only tell my story:

I have two kids with my ex-husband (boys). They are 9 and 11.

He (exH) is a Loser Extraordinaire. Nevertheless I have been exceedingly kind to him in all of the divorce and custody proceedings, etc. He's had closer to equal time with the kids since we split than any noncustodial/not-50/50 parent I've ever known.

I am married again to a WONDERFUL man (together 4 years, just married back in November) who has expressed a similar sentiment: "I know I won't be a DAD to them, they HAVE a dad," "Not sure if they'll ever really warm up to me," etc.

Well... but they don't REALLY have a dad. Not in any meaningful or beneficial sense. They can't get around LOVING him because they bonded with him, but he's doing nothing to actually FATHER THEM. He doesn't have it together, period. His house is filthy, he's emotionally volatile, yells a lot, keeps all the good treats for himself and his girlfriend and makes the kids do most of the chores while he and the girlfriend sit on their computers all day.

They've told me flat-out that they don't want to go to his house anymore. My oldest the other day said he doesn't even LIKE his dad.

(For the record, I did NOTHING to influence their perception of their dad in this fashion. If anything I've always tried to paint him more as the dad I wish he was. I once told my stepmother that she had to apologize or get out of my car when she said something disrespectful about the kids' dad in front of them. They brought all of these things to ME, unprompted.)

It's taken a few years, but they're not blind to the differences between this home and that home, this family dynamic and that family dynamic. They're not unaware that my new husband treats me (and them) with the utmost care and respect, whereas their dad bullied and yelled at me (and them). My husband also has something my ex might NEVER have: the tone and demeanor and work ethic of an actual grown man. 

It's subtle, and I don't think my husband sees it, but as their mother I can absolutely tell that they look up to my husband a LOT more than they look up to their dad. They are developing genuine respect for him.

And I am SO GLAD.

[YOLO66]

So you think your ex is a loser, and the sun shines out of your new guy (what a surprise)

and you're glad that your kids disrespect their father and that your new bf is replacing him.  wonderful

but of course you've done absolutely nothing to encourage this.  yeah right.

[Kitty Tantrum]

13 hours ago, YOLO66 said:

So you think your ex is a loser, and the sun shines out of your new guy (what a surprise)

and you're glad that your kids disrespect their father and that your new bf is replacing him.  wonderful

but of course you've done absolutely nothing to encourage this.  yeah right.

Well, you're certainly under no obligation to BELIEVE me, but not every story follows the narrative you seem to have assumed.

But allow me to tell My Story, Part II (The Prequel):

My mom left my dad when I was 6 years old. Packed us up (me and my two brothers) and called the sheriff one night while my dad was out and had us all taken to a domestic violence shelter. To my recollection, my dad was never abusive in any way, but she did everything she could to make it seem like he was. "Emotional violence," "verbal abuse" - compared to her literally screaming and throwing things...??? Suuuure, mom. OK.

THIS part of my story is the part that follows the narrative you're looking for. My mother wasn't "happy" so she bailed on her relationship (not married but together 9+ years) and threw my dad under the bus to qualify for assistance getting out. I think I've posted about this on here before, and about how my mother has been trash-talking my father for 25+ years.

My mom's new sleazy loser boyfriend (the one she left my dad for, the one she was already hooking up with for I-don't-even-know-how-long, inviting him over to our house for sex while my brother and I played unsupervised in the living room) was violent. Slapped me across the face one time, shoved me up against a wall on another occasion. My brother and I called the police once when they were fighting outside and she came in with a bleeding lump on her head. She did break up with him - and then had the typical revolving door of boyfriends. Pretty much all I knew about any of them was their name and that they were banging my mom (I think she thought we wouldn't be wise to this at that age... LOL).

There was a long, ugly, drawn-out court battle over custody and child support. Attempts at defamation all-around. My dad's not totally innocent of exaggerated accusations himself, but I can hardly blame him. Still, next to my mother's volatility, venom, and vitriol, my dad has been as calm and steady as the roots of the mountains.

All her lies were for nothing, and I can only imagine how much it killed her when my brothers and I ALL ended up insisting on living with our dad. I moved back in first, shortly after the split, then my older brother. Then she took our baby brother and moved ~900 miles away to be with another guy. This one she ended up marrying, and I have LOADS of respect for him because 1) he's a GOOD man, and 2) he keeps my mother in line (she would spit feminist-word-napalm at that assessment, but it's TRUE). My "baby" brother came to live with us eventually too, shortly after he was out of toddlerhood.

My mother has clung for decades now to the narrative that my dad is evil and bad and that she had no choice but to leave him and run two states away or else she would have "DIED." AKA she's guilty as hell for making a selfish decision and handling it in what was probably the worst possible way, but she can't admit that to herself. I have lost so much respect for my mother over the years because of this.

One of the "biggest" lessons my father taught me is to learn from others' mistakes.

I friggin' coddled my ex-husband through the divorce process (which was undertaken after much careful deliberation - prompted by his irresponsibility, immaturity, AND his confession to me that he had actually NEVER WANTED TO MARRY OR HAVE CHILDREN... "but thanks for rescuing me from my parents' house," he said).

I kept my mouth shut while he raged and spewed impotent threats, while he called around to all of our family members (his and mine) and told them some pretty fantastical lies about why I was leaving him. And over the years, without me saying anything at all on the matter, every single person who knows the both of us has wised up to the fact that he's guilty of every single thing he tried to pin on me. His own subsequent actions make that very clear. ALL of his own family members have him pegged for a narcissist and a liar. The only people who seem to like him and support him are the sexual deviants (BDSM buddies, blue-haired sex-workers, F-buddies, etc.) that he would never refrain from bringing around our children no matter how much I pleaded.

HE moved 800+ miles away - not for work, not because he had to, but because living somewhere that his money would "go farther" was more important to him than being close to his kids. I even offered for him to NOT PAY ANY CHILD SUPPORT AT ALL if he stayed close-by, but no dice. Now he's got himself set up with a good job in a low cost-of-living area, pays about a third of his child support obligation (this is voluntary, which is actually somewhat impressive for him), blows everything else on consumer luxuries, borrows money from EVERYONE and doesn't pay it back, skips child support payments here and there and stiffs his sister on rent occasionally because he "can't afford it."

He rents a house from his sister (her first house, was in good repair when she moved out) and she's confided in me that she's a hair's breadth away from evicting him because he's absolutely trashed it. I think he and his girlfriend have accumulated at least 2 dogs and 6-7 cats that pee and poo all over the house, and they don't clean. Ignored water leaks have caused structural damage. The girlfriend apparently set fire to the kitchen once (which is full of containers of rotting food that sit out on the counters for weeks and months on end)... etc. His sister has considered placing a call to social services HERSELF because it's so bad.

He's also been APPARENTLY trying to groom his adopted kid sister to have some kind of sick sexual relationship with him (a sliver of plausible deniability by way of STUPIDITY is the only thing keeping the rest of his family from disowning him outright).

My ex-husband has had every chance to be a good father and a decent freaking human being. I've sent my kids to be with him for the entire summer, and then some, every year since he moved away - and they've come back each time less and less enthused about the next visit, until this time they finally told me "we don't want to go."

Some men are not cut out for fatherhood. Not every story lives up to your "AWALT" fantasy.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Kitty Tantrum

[ChatroomHero]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:34 PM, AMarriedMan said:

I doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to realize that the above is the likely outcome of shacking up with or even dating a single mom of four or even fewer kids.

I'd much rather not date anyone ever again than put myself in a position like that. 

Being a step dad can go wrong in so many ways. The most likely outcome is being treated as an outsider, tolerated at best, except when it comes to handing out money. In a way, an even worse outcome would be to first become a fully accepted member of the family and developing a genuinely good relationship with the kids and bonding with them only to fall out with the mother and get dumped by her. After that, a former step dad has zero rights when it comes to seeing the kids and the kids have zero rights to him. Ditto for an ex step mother.

Blended families, no thank you. 

Yeah, this right here.

You are treated like an outsider. You can be sitting in a $250K home you own, in a $2K couch you paid for, watching a game on a $2K tv you bought and mom and kids walk in and take over and the general feeling in the room is I wish this guy wasn't intruding on our movie night. 

The mom will be like, "hey everyone, let's go to the zoo!" You're like, "I need a few minutes to get ready". She's like, "Oh. You're coming? I was going to have some mommy/kid time with them because I have been sooo busy, what with working alost 14 hours this week". Not feeling welcome you say, "That's ok. You go ahead and have a good time". Her, "Ok. We'll all do something together another time. Where is your credit card? I don't have enough money to pay for the zoo". Wash and repeat. 

Granted that is an exaggerated example but the overall feeling is just like AM said...you are a neutered ATM. If you are really lucky you will be priority #3 or #4. Priority #1 is her kids. #2 is her. #3 may be her family. #4 may be her issues with her Ex. Priority #5 if you are lucky might be you.

I think you usually end up the "provider" of the family but you are never rewarded as the "big dog" in the home. I think if you are out with a mom and her kid and a kid disrespects you and she takes the kid to task, that is a good sign. If you are like, "It's ok...not a big deal..." and the mom says, "No! He knows better and I will not allow that", well, you probably have a good situation.

I tend not to want that but I think based on the individual single mom situation it could be fine but if at the same time the red flags are usually pretty easy to spot if you look for them and fairly common in my opinion.

 

 

[Marc878]

There are exceptions but it’s a gamble. 
 

take it or not

[The Outlaw]

I dated a single mother briefly, and it didn't end well. Although, as noted, there are exceptions to the rule. Most people tend to shy away from a single parent whether it be a male or female because they don't want to come in second in that relationship or be a surrogate. But if you feel it's worth the risk and maybe could make it work, go for it. It's about chance in the end anyway. 

[Kitty Tantrum]

FWIW, I've heard of the whole "neutered ATM," "taken for granted," "low on the totem pole," thing happening plenty of times in plain ol' nuclear families, too.

There are plenty of never-married childless people out there who will go on to get married and treat their spouse like that - prioritizing every little thing over their marriage.

The whole "has kids/doesn't have kids" checkbox won't tell you much about the quality of the person, or the viability of a relationship with them, on its own.

I prioritize my marriage. Not in the sense that I treat my husband better than my kids or or neglect my duties to them or anything like that, but in the sense that I see modeling healthy marriage as part of my obligation to my children. My husband IS also the sole provider for our family, and nobody treats him like an ATM. I think my kids have asked him to buy something for them all of ONCE - just a soda while we were out - and they asked very politely, said thank you, etc. He gets priority consideration in a lot of circumstances because he's the one who goes out and works hard to provide literally everything we have at home. They seem to "get" that - and they're grateful. They're pretty respectful, as far as kids go (I get a lot of compliments on how well-behaved my kids are).

I think it's worth noting that they DON'T disrespect their dad, either. What they DID was relate to me a factual account (which was independently and voluntarily corroborated by his own family members who live nearby) of what it's like at his house, how they're treated while they're there, etc. They've never been allowed to get away with disrespecting anyone... except mayyybe occasionally me. 😜

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Your just a guy dating a chick with kids, thats it... Your not gonna  have these kids instantly obeying every word you speak, but they also shouldn't  tell you what to do either... Gotta find that common ground.

That is literally all you do as a person coming into a reconstructed family, just find the common ground and share it, don't chase them off or let them chase you off, just set boundaries, limits, let them do the same and share that common ground.

Edited February 10, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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