legrtova Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 legrtova glad to hear someone else has been here, so much of me wants to feel weak for giving into my wants & accepting what he will give. Youj are not weak, it's normal. You have invested everything in this guy, you gave him your love. I had the hardest time trying to understand how we can go from being together all the time loving each other as much as we did to not talking at all. That will pass. You are NOT weak, you are human being with feelings. He focused on getting things back together at home & I moved BUT here we are again.W now preg- as if the 2 C werent enough NOW I know that he wont leave. But I cant just push him out of my life....not right now I just cant!!! My xMM is trying to work on things now as well. His wife got pregnant with their second child when he was trying to leave few years ago (HA), I'm guessing they are gonna have another child now...to 'fix' things and for her to keep him around. I felt I couldn't let him go either...every time we saw each other I wanted one more time to be with him...it's a vicious cycle. I finally broke it off (knowing he would never leave his wife). It hurts, I've gone through hell and back, experienced feelings I had no clue I could feel....but I know I have done the right thing..I gave them chance to work it out and move on, and I allowed my self to stay 'normal' and to move on to find my prince charming. He says he is scared, that being th #1 reason he doesnt leave backed up with the security of his W & C, that is all he has ever know. MM & W have been together since they where 16 (she got preg w/1st chid then) he is now 31, so their whole life has been together. I can understand how he cant leave, but what is it he is missing? This just sucks. I know its either hurt now or hurt later.....later just seems easier. : ( Yep, same thing:rolleyes: My MM and his W have been together since she was 16 and he was 17. They are to each other all they have ever had. I don't know if they confuse love with comfort and safety (which might as well be love), or if they are just scared to get out there by themselves....either way I understand they have a huge attachment to each other. My MM said he was scared to leave but doesn't think he will be happy. Too bad, I won't be waiting around for him to 'choose' me, I'm worth more then that. I wish you the best...if you are OK with your situation, that's fine, if not, do something and show him you don't need him. It's tough, but it's good for the sake of your sanity.... Best wished girly!!!! Hugs...keep me posted. L P.S. Almost day 7 of NC!! Miss him bad today, but it will pass....
legrtova Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 legrtova, sorry i didnt reply to your post, i must have missed it! sorry your date didnt go too well, but consider it a rebound!! the guy i am talking with i already liked all the time through mm but he was with someone, not anymore though. glad to hear you are still being strong!! No worries. have you heard from lynnered? I haven't seen her around in a while, I'm a bit worried, she sounded down last time she was here. It wasn't a 'date', he was a friend of mine who wanted rebound for him self and tried to use me....I freaked out when he touched me:o . I'm just not liking guys yet...but it's only been a month, so it shall pass as well. Being strong...hehe...gotta be strong to be strong...in strenght we trust? hehe Congrats on your date!!! How are you doing on your NC? How is everyone doing on NC???
cherrie498 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Thanks for understanding. Its nice to have support when you are in the middle of NC (I was last week ) & to also have someone to understand & support me when I am standing in such an iffy spot. I am sure that there will be a time for NC, maybe short spells of it before the grand finally!!! I dont want his marriage to be "easier" BUT I do want my life to be!! So for now I am feeling better, worring & thinking about him much less!!! 7 Days VERY GOOD!!!! VERY PROUD of YOU!!!! & everyone else out there succedding at NC!!!! Very impressed!!!!
legrtova Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Thanks:o I know I will make it, I don't feel like talking to him anyway. I just miss his presence... Going to work out to get him out of my system. Anyone out there wants to join?
brittanyjean259 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 hey ! october does seem to bring a different change on about me... EVEN though it still hurts like a mother effer..i feel preety love able and i am thankful for stuff i do have...and i will be even more thankful when the hurting goes away.. got a new job,met a new friend! im on a roll with my goals im proud of my self!
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 legrtova, i dont want to talk about anyone who isnt here, but, i am sure that lynnered is ok, maybe just moved on from loveshack for a while.
Sunset Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Feeling yuuuuuuk this morning, what nc day are we on? - they all seem to have rolled into one ongoing hell!!!! Drove to see my female friend for a night out, on the radio on way there a song came on which I used to play when driving to see him, brought lots of emotion to the surface, thought I was doing so well but I really really miss him. So tempted to email/call and say 'hi'. He is not even aware anything is wrong apart from I have not been in touch for a few days - must be noticing that I have not been in touch - but then again he has not been in touch so why the hell should I! I read I think from Art talking to someone else that if she was tempted she should email on here so that's what I am doing - trying to stop myself emailing him. Feel so down, not feeling like playing with the kids, feeling low every day when I wake up, I feel so yuk, trying to smile and make the effort for the kids and husband but inside feel like someone is turning a screw. Urrrrrgggh this is horrible, anyway going to go to work to think about it before I make contact, help please needed, I feel like I am going under. In real danger of breaking NC but don't want to let everyone down - I worked so hard!!!!!
OldEurope Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Elsewhere on this forum I quoted Churchill: "The only way out of hell is through it". You'll get there. Ignore the "yuck" feeling, stop the navel-gazing, look out across the horizon, across the limits of your life and what is familiar to you, and remember that there is a gorgeous, fabulous world out there extending past the parameters of your problems, and that life is to be indulged like a banquet. You are suffering not only from your NC, but from routine. You see, your mm was part of your routine and it was something to look forward to. NOW, he is "out of the picture" and you are left with the same well worn circles and patterns of life minus the blood rush of his presence. BE CAREFUL of this. I wholly suggest that you immediately add to your life some great physical or creative intellectual activity that fills the gap of the stimulation. I swear to you, I do not know where you live, but get thee to a great art museum, see what humanity has managed to do despite millenia of war, hell and death, in the pursuit and creation of beauty, take a deeeeep breath and say: "I'll get through this". FORGET listening to the old radio songs, or miring your self in brainless television or trying to walk around where he lives. DO NOT reinforce the same patterns and habits--you will sink further into the mire. Get out of yourself, get away from yourself, but add something new and interesting--some activity--that you have been thinking about and "afraid" to pursue. Another thing: Common Sense. Don't forget before you pick up the cell phone to text him....ask yourself: Wait, what brought me to NC in the first place? Do not fight with yourself so much..There are REASONS remember why you are in NC, why you got to that exasperated point of no return. So, when about to hit the "send" button because "you can't take NC anymore", just remember that in effect the only thing you will be "sending" is yourself right back to square one 1
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 all good advice above. its true, you need some excitement, a project of some kind.
whatafool Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Art Critic, you have a very good handle on the OW/MM situation, can I ask you a question? You are very damming about the MM and often take the line that he is a serial womaniser and offers no future for OW. Surely there are cases where the guy is genuinely unhappy in his marriage and has sought refuge outside and created an affair that has blown out of all proportion to what anyone expected and then is in a genuine dilemma as to how/if to end marriage. If you agree that there are such situations how would you advise us to know the difference between the two types of MM?
Art_Critic Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 If you agree that there are such situations how would you advise us to know the difference between the two types of MM? It sounds to me that you are doing a little grasping at straws.. But human nature and understanding WHY the MM is in the relationship with the OW is most likely the easiest way to tell.. Yes there are success stories where the OW has been able to hold onto her MM but those are the rarity. Most people think that because the MM is unhappy in his marriage that all the OW has to do is make him happy and she will get to keep him.. so wrong.. The big mistake the OW makes is she listens to her MM.. He is very deceitful and he NEVER tells her the truth about his marriage and about his relationship to his wife. Here I think is the rub... If the MM is unhappy in his marriage and cheats lets say he does divorce his wife.. The chances are the OW is not the type of woman he wants to marry.. He was using her to help him over his hump and once that has happened he has no use for her. But she has been told by him that she was marrying material.. but in reality she is not.. MM are deceitfull and dishonest simply by the nature of their relationship with the OW.. He can't tell the truth to her.. If he did she would'nt want him. I think knowing the REAL truth to your MM is the secret in knowing if you are going to keep him.. But you can't listen to him.. You need to find the real truth elsewhere.. PI's or talk to the wife..
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 art critic, i disagree. the mm sees what he wants to see. it is no reflection on the ow at all. he only takes the parts of the ow he wants, and dismisses anything else. i would find with my mm, were i to talk about anything but him, he would change the subject, or not listen. not always, not while we had a friendship, but certainly when he was after the a, either the beginning or a rekindling. people tend to see what they want anyway, but , mm do this more so, when all they want is an ow, and not a substitute for the w they already have. it is no reflection on the ow, and it does not mean she is not wife material, to say so is an insult to whatafool, who asked for your advice.
Art_Critic Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 it is no reflection on the ow, and it does not mean she is not wife material, to say so is an insult to whatafool, who asked for your advice. Geez.. You are attacking me.... Did my post punch a hot button of yours ?? Maybe denial? I never insulted her and never said she isn't marrying material.. I simply stated what I have found to be true about the MM in general. If the MM wanted to marry the OW.. He would.. it is that simple.. You don't have to read my advice.. If you don't like it.. ignore it. And to Whatafool.. I hope that I didn't come across as insulting.. I certainly wasn't trying to.
whatafool Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Thanks for reply Art Critic - am not offended It sounds to me that you are doing a little grasping at straws...yes you are right probably grasping at straws. Most people think that because the MM is unhappy in his marriage that all the OW has to do is make him happy and she will get to keep him.. - so true The big mistake the OW makes is she listens to her MM.. He is very deceitful and he NEVER tells her the truth about his marriage and about his relationship to his wife. Here I think is the rub... If the MM is unhappy in his marriage and cheats lets say he does divorce his wife.. The chances are the OW is not the type of woman he wants to marry.. He was using her to help him over his hump and once that has happened he has no use for her. But she has been told by him that she was marrying material.. but in reality she is not... this does puzzle me. 1 in 2 marriages are supposed to fail now. Generally there is a third party involved, I know that the third party does not necessarily become the next W or H, but I am sure that we all know of couples that have started out like that (I can think of about 6 couples that I know of) - but OW are ever told at LS is you will never get him I think knowing the REAL truth to your MM is the secret in knowing if you are going to keep him.. But you can't listen to him.. You need to find the real truth elsewhere.. PI's or talk to the wife.. ... have always thought about doing this, PI not the wife, to find out who he really is - I just know what he tells me. My story is a totally classic OW/MM situation exactly like everyone else here. A has been over 18 months, but I dumped him 2 months ago and have been doing NC since, it is getting easier, but one can't help wondering what if etc. The thing that is really bugging me at the moment is was he genuine, or was I one of many, if the latter were the case it would be so much easier to get over the whole thing. I know my exMM is deceitful and manipulative, and very good at it. I find myself making all sorts of excuses, like he had a hard childhood and does not understand himself emotionally, I always have been the one to make things up, but not this time. I am also beginning to think that maybe I have a co-dependant personality that I allowed myself to be treated like s**t by him for so long, and going back for more all the time. Perhaps this is something that a lot of OW suffer from, I know I am always mentally making excuses from him and trying to fix everything for him, but he makes very little effort for me or our relationship. He is just there wanting to overpower me, but not willing to to do anything much that will put himself out - he hates it that he is loosing power, I love it. I have been reading a thread in the separated thread started by 'ditherer'. He just sounds so much like my exMM - mediocre marriage and OW but does not have guts to do anything about it he just endlessley ruminates. I would so like to get a PI onto him to find out what he really is all about, but doubt I would have the courage to do so. I will get through all this though - and one thing for sure it has been a tremendous learning curve.
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 art critic, i wasnt attacking you, i was disagreeing with you. i'm sorry if you feel attacked by people who disagree with you. you didnt punch any hot buttons either, sorry, but i am actually over my xmm.
Sunset Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 OOOOOOOO a heated debate!! Both Art and Newbby give good advice and I think it's really interesting to see differing views on the same problem. Pat on the back for me (given by myself - he he) for not contacting, decided to go to work and think about it, got busy and the moment passed. I agree Europe I do need to find something for myself which isn't work or child related. Have decided to go easy on myself this week then next week I am going to think of some new things to do - an exercise regime to start because I look crap at the moment. I know I have put on weight and am looking dowdy because those guys who used to whistle from their cars don't seem to anymore Maybe then when I look a little better and start getting attention, I will feel better too. I miss the attention more than the man if that makes sense (if a little shallow)
joodee Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Hi, Since this is the month to get rid of MM, and I said yes, I'm participating, it seems that I am doing the exact opposite actions. I called, he called, I saw him, slept with him, and of course got in a big fight with him. So of course I am right now not wanting to talk with him and I want to stick to NC. And I NEVER would call. Do you all ever find yourselves doing the exact opposite of what you commit to? I like most of you want to be free to find a new relationship, I feel stuck and in a big cycle. What fueled our fight was me asking him if he really did love me since we wound up in bed together and talking all weekend as if we were boyfriend and girlfriend, and if he wanted only me, etc. And that I don't think we should sleep together if we are not exclusive. He got annoyed and said I knew how he felt, that he does love me, and just wants to take things by the moment (or day by day, something like that) and see how things went. I said enough of that, either you love me and want only me by now or you don't. He said it wasn't a good time to bring up that, and then I asked straight out if he was dating others. He said no; I asked if that was the truth. He then said "I have to go now before I get really angry, goodbye" and hung up. I know he's lying about not dating others (he is), and he hasn't mentioned his wife (he hasn't seen her in a long time, they don't live together). I really don't want to talk to him. But I can't get my insides to agree with me. So there you have it. Help me get back on track with you all, cause I know in a day or two he'll start texting and e-mailing me, and I felt all my strength just go out the window.
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 hey joodee (hugs), i think sometimes we do the opposite just to see if its the right decision or not, we have one last ditch attempt and we usually ask outright what the deal is, just to be sure nc is right. you have your answers now, i went through a similar thing right when i decided to do nc, and i got my answers too. but there is life after mm, and it is so much better too! you will find this out, i think sometimes its the best way to do it, get your answers straight and harsh, then you can just deal and move on.
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 sunset, thanks! and well done, you are doing good and being strong.
joodee Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Newwby, I think you are right, it always seemed that I could never get a complete straight answer out of him. And with all that I've read here on LS, all the therapy, all the time by myself (I'm in school full-time and working alot, so I really have zero time available), it's either tell it like it is or see ya time. I mean, how many lies do I have to put up with? I mean really. Maybe I just needed to put it on the line, say this is how I feel, how about you stuff. Well I feel better that I know what his true character his. Actually I knew all along, I just maybe held hope that deep down he really loved me and had stuff to work out. Anyway, I don't know how to handle tomorrow if he comes by the office to say hi, I am fine as long as I don't have to see him. See, if I see him, I then feel obligated to interact and say yes if he asks me to dinner or brings me coffee (which I don't ask him to do). He's not even in my department, I don't have to interact with him at all, our jobs are totally separate. Thanks again, Newwby. Hope you all are staying strong during this October Month, it's the 11th - the 31st is not far away now!
newbby Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 joodee, if he asks you for coffee, dinner etc, just firmly and politely decline. you dont have to be rude, just tell him you are busy. eventually he will stop asking, you have to be prepared for that as well! as soon as you get away from his lies, you will feel a great sense of freedom.
foolinlove Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Hello All, Well since I won't see or speak to MM in person or on phone, he sent me a letter to my snail mail...no return address so I didn't know who it was from. Luckly he don't have email or I'm sure i would here from him more often. He writes in his letter..very short but confusing: "I am damaging our relationship". He is "concerned that this will damage our relationship and it will never be the same". When I wrote him my goodbye letter on 9/30, I told him plain and simple how I feel, what he needs to do, and not to contact me. He KNOWS how i feel about him, he tells me no one ever has treated him as well as I have. Part of me knows that this is his way of making me feel bad and go back to contact. But I also know he is very insecure and needs constant reassurace from me, which I can no longer provided for him..I've tried that road, it doesn't work.. He claims to be arranging the divorce settlement....but is concerned how this NC will effect our relationship in the future? What future..you have done nothing to show me this future... Is he truely concerned how this will impact our "future" relationship? (worried that I could cut him off...at anytime when times got tough) or is he just using these words to attempt to manipulate my stance on NC. I'm Done reassuring him....when do I get some reassurance? Oh yeah, "and i'm hurting him greatly"...well do something dumb a$$....or lose me forever!
Art_Critic Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 When I wrote him my goodbye letter on 9/30, I told him plain and simple how I feel, what he needs to do, and not to contact me. He can't respect your boundaries.. The MM has boundary issues to begin with.. If you told him to not contact you again and he does.. IT IS MANIPULATION.. Burn the letter... Do not let him know you read the letter..
newbby Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 foolinlove, he knows the deal and it is an attempt to manipulate you into continuing the a. obviously he is struggling at the moment, without you but does not want to go through with what you require from him. it is just manipulation, dont fall for it. he would probably use the same thing as an excuse if he never leaves too. it will be your fault because he could never trust you after this. it just shows his weakness.
NewUser Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 I am in! Actually, I started a few days ago, but it feels great to have a support system. I was involved with a MM who I also worked with for over a year and half. It was the most tumultuous, horrible thing I have ever experienced, but it was difficult to break the ties because we worked together, etc. Not to mention the fact that once he was (at least put on the act of) the sweetest, most caring individual I knew. It took me a long time to accept that that person was just smoke and mirrors and that I'd fallen in love with a figment of my own imagination (and a persona of his own creation). Anyway, it ended badly. Angry exchanges, etc. I believe his pride and ego will prevent him from contacting me, which is a good thing, but I am still having a few pangs, even though I know unequivocally that NC is the best and only solution. I appreciate getting support in this forum and I hope that very soon I will be the one offering support to someone in who has found her(him)self in this very dark place known as "other."
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