Ruby Slippers Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 I then opened my big mouth and asked if she was over him, and if she would go back if he wanted her. She got very agitated and said not to ask her these things. I then told her I just wanted to make sure I would get a shot and that I wasn't being used as a rebound or to make someone jealous. I see this as very ballsy on your part. She wouldn't have gotten agitated if she was over him. And if she didn't want to be asked about her ex, she never should have talked to a NEW MAN about her EX. How insulting and disrespectful on her part. You shone a light on the truth of the matter, and made it clear you weren't going to waste your time unless there was real potential. Very alpha, in my view
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 4, 2019 Author Posted August 4, 2019 I see this as very ballsy on your part. She wouldn't have gotten agitated if she was over him. And if she didn't want to be asked about her ex, she never should have talked to a NEW MAN about her EX. How insulting and disrespectful on her part. You shone a light on the truth of the matter, and made it clear you weren't going to waste your time unless there was real potential. Very alpha, in my view Thanks for your comments Some of my buddies have all said it made me seem weak and insecure though. And to be fair to them, I did probably do it from a place of insecurity if I'm being honest. I maybe should've waited another date or two, but I didn't want to wait until I liked her too much. Might be my ego talking, but I thought with a bit more time I could start to take her mind off him. I realise now that probably wasn't going to be the case. Too soon after the breakup.
ExpatInItaly Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 In fact she categorically told me she was "not" using me. Maybe i'm naive, but I try to take people at their word until they give me a reason to do other wise. With respect - yes, this was naive on your part. Who is going to come out and say that they are indeed using you to get over someone else? Of course she would deny that. She probably didn't feel she was using you, since you were a willing participant, but later realized you wanted more than she wanted to give. You weren't insecure about her ex. Stop telling yourself that. Most in their right mind would ask the same questions you did after she revealed the situation with him. Her reaction was everything you needed to know - she is not over him, and she wants him back. This was never going to get off the ground between the two of you. Asking about him on date #2 or #5 would have made no difference.
Gretchen12 Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 We were chatting away happily. Talking about the great night we'd had. She mentioned that she wanted to take things slowly though because she gets scared if things get too intense too quickly. Then the subject got onto attachment styles or something similar. I said I was quite laid back, comfortable both with my own space, and with intimacy, and I only ever get anxious if the person I'm with is extremely avoidant. She said that she wasn't avoidant and liked closeness and intimacy. She then said she probably pushed her ex away by being too needy for him. I then opened my big mouth and asked if she was over him, and if she would go back if he wanted her. She got very agitated and said not to ask her these things. I then told her I just wanted to make sure I would get a shot and that I wasn't being used as a rebound or to make someone jealous. And "BOOM!" insecurity all over the place. She then said the vibe got weird. She was freaked out because she was worried about disappointing me down the line. She said we'd be fine if we just took it down a notch, got to know each other better at a steady pace and see where it goes. Next day... "Dear John, you're getting too intense and you've scared me away" From this alone, you are not an insecure person, you were a person in an insecure situation. You were actually right. You asked the right question. If there is insecurity, it is your self doubt. If you ask a reasonable (not rude or disrespectful) question and the person bolts, that means you asked exactly the right question.
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 4, 2019 Author Posted August 4, 2019 From this alone, you are not an insecure person, you were a person in an insecure situation. You were actually right. You asked the right question. If there is insecurity, it is your self doubt. If you ask a reasonable (not rude or disrespectful) question and the person bolts, that means you asked exactly the right question. You may be right but I feel it made me appear too attached to quickly. I did explain that I wasn't, but having a woman use you then run back to an ex is a serious ego bruiser, and makes you feel like a chump. I think this is what I was trying to avoid. Also, as pointed out earlier, if she still loves her ex, I could be the sexiest, funniest, most intelligent man alive, and I still wouldn't be able to compete. The sad thing is, within the next few months, something will click in her brain and she won't even care about him anymore. Anyway, this discussion has helped. I was heaping all the blame on myself but it looks as though maybe I've been too hard on myself. Might give dating a break for a while and concentrate on other less stressful and less expensive pursuits
Ruby Slippers Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 You may be right but I feel it made me appear too attached to quickly. I did explain that I wasn't, but having a woman use you then run back to an ex is a serious ego bruiser, and makes you feel like a chump. I think this is what I was trying to avoid. Did you know that biology designed men to get sleepy after sex? The idea, in terms of biology, is that if you impregnated this woman, nature wants you to stay by her side and protect your potential offspring against predators in the jungle - bond to her, in a sense. I think it's admirable that you recognized you were starting to bond and wanted to make sure it was wise to do so before getting in any deeper. I see a man who knows what he wants and isn't willing to twiddle his thumbs until she decides she's up for it. In my book, a weak man puts up with her references to the ex - a clear sign of her not being over him - and waits around until she's maybe ready to move on, bending over backwards like a clown to entertain and distract her in the meantime. Just my 2 cents.
ExpatInItaly Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 You may be right but I feel it made me appear too attached to quickly. I did explain that I wasn't, but having a woman use you then run back to an ex is a serious ego bruiser, and makes you feel like a chump. I think this is what I was trying to avoid. Where are you getting this idea from? That's a genuine question. Who told you that any of this made you look "weak" or insecure?
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 4, 2019 Author Posted August 4, 2019 I think it's admirable that you recognized you were starting to bond and wanted to make sure it was wise to do so before getting in any deeper. I see a man who knows what he wants and isn't willing to twiddle his thumbs until she decides she's up for it. In my book, a weak man puts up with her references to the ex - a clear sign of her not being over him - and waits around until she's maybe ready to move on, bending over backwards like a clown to entertain and distract her in the meantime. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for all your nice comments there. My concern is that I may not be worthy of them. If she hadn't ended it, I may have went along with it, and ended up with a lot of anxiety along the way. I suppose she did do me a favour after all. The reason I posted on here, was to try and understand what happened and why it's bothering me so much. If it was because I got attached after one date, then I need to go away and sort myself out. I think what's more likely, is that I've been blaming myself, thinking that I'd ruined something potentially great through needy behaviour. but from what everyone seems to be telling me, what was to happen was never within my control in the first place.
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 4, 2019 Author Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) Where are you getting this idea from? That's a genuine question. Who told you that any of this made you look "weak" or insecure? Some of my friends said that I should've let it slide for the time being and went with the flow. that she may have chilled out and warmed up to me after a while. Thing is, my friends all think that I should just celebrate the fact that a beautiful woman was all over me and went home and had sex with me. I would've liked a bit more though. Also, she herself said in the Dear John text that she felt i was getting anxious and insecure about her already. That it felt like a serious relationship after only one date (i didn't feel like that, so I don't know if she was making it up or projecting). But she also said she could see that I was constantly checking WhatsApp to see if she'd read my messages yet. Issue is, that's not possible on WhatsApp. All she was seeing was when I was online or last seen. But seeing as I have about 3 or 4 conversations going on in WhatsApp at any one time, of course she would see me going on and offline regularly. I think she's tried to make out, or she believes I was more into her than I was. It actually made me feel like she thought I was a creep, which I also called out. She said she didn't think that though. Edited August 4, 2019 by AgentCormac78
ExpatInItaly Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 But she also said she could see that I was constantly checking WhatsApp to see if she'd read my messages yet. Issue is, that's not possible on WhatsApp. All she was seeing was when I was online or last seen. But seeing as I have about 3 or 4 conversations going on in WhatsApp at any one time, of course she would see me going on and offline regularly. My honest guess? This is what she did with her ex. She was constantly online checking to see if he had read her messages, and she's projecting that on you. Perhaps she still does that with him. It makes no sense otherwise; she knows as a What's App user that you can only see if someone is online, not whose conversation threads are checking. She was reaching with that one, looking for a way to blame you - but I bet any money it's because she does so herself. As for your friends, well, it sounds like they meant you could have gotten laid a little more if you hadn't said anything. Not that you could have had a real relationship with her. They are wrong about her warming up to you in any emotional sense; she is in no place for it.
Ruby Slippers Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 I'm being to understand why her ex that she's still hung up on wants nothing to do with her. She throws herself at a guy, then dumps him once he makes it clear he's interested in more than just sex. I'll hold my tongue from saying what I'd really like to say about her. I think you dodged a bullet.
preraph Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 Well first of all she's the one who was moving too fast. and apparently all she wanted was 6 to tide her over while she continues to work on her ex. So do not start thinking you did something wrong. She used you for sex and probably distraction.
newyorker11356 Posted August 4, 2019 Posted August 4, 2019 I've never dated, period, so take my post with a grain of salt, as maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I was always under the impression that, if you're "making out" or especially having sex on the first date, it's probably not something built to last, to begin with. From the outside looking in, I always assumed getting "sexual" any earlier than, like, at least a month into seeing someone is typically a symptom of a "fling" or something fairly casual, especially the earlier on it happens. But what do I know? Eh, not true for every single situation.
beautifulearth83 Posted August 5, 2019 Posted August 5, 2019 Hey thanks for sharing your experience. I was in a similar situation recently. I showed insecurity and a bit of seriousness early on and I think it scared her off. On our date she did talk about her ex, it really didn't bother me, but I should have seen it as a red flag. She basically talked trash about as many people as she could. So it isn't you. If you felt insecure at any point, it is probably because you could intuitively sense that she wasn't as serious about going forward as you, but it is nice that you met this person and had the experience you did. It's all part of learning and growing. I can totally relate with you though. In my most recent experience, I too have that moment where I wish I could have done things differently, but I think that when we're with the right person, we don't worry so much about that, because we can just be ourselves. Nonetheless, I appreciate you sharing this, because your story and the responses are helping me understand some things about my own situation as well. 1
newyorker11356 Posted August 5, 2019 Posted August 5, 2019 So it isn't you. If you felt insecure at any point, it is probably because you could intuitively sense that she wasn't as serious about going forward as you, but it is nice that you met this person and had the experience you did. It's all part of learning and growing. Not always true. With my ex, no matter how many times I would try to reassure that I was serious about her and could see a future with her, the insecurities would come creeping back. It just got to a point where I was simply "tired" of the relationship and walking on eggshells.
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 5, 2019 Author Posted August 5, 2019 Hey thanks for sharing your experience. I was in a similar situation recently. I showed insecurity and a bit of seriousness early on and I think it scared her off. On our date she did talk about her ex, it really didn't bother me, but I should have seen it as a red flag. She basically talked trash about as many people as she could. She asked me about my ex as well. I'll be seeing ex talk as a red flag as well in future. I'd understand if they have kids together etc. they may come up in conversation ("Sorry i'm a bit late, the ex was late collecting the kids" etc.) So it isn't you. If you felt insecure at any point, it is probably because you could intuitively sense that she wasn't as serious about going forward as you, but it is nice that you met this person and had the experience you did. It's all part of learning and growing She implied that she was serious about trying to date me, just that it had to go slowly. Then she talked me into taking her home I can totally relate with you though. In my most recent experience, I too have that moment where I wish I could have done things differently, but I think that when we're with the right person, we don't worry so much about that, because we can just be ourselves. I know what you mean. I'm very new to dating and I've been making a lot of mistakes. I've been learning from them, but I'm wondering how many potential future loves of my life I'm going to put off until I get it right. Nonetheless, I appreciate you sharing this, because your story and the responses are helping me understand some things about my own situation as well. I'm glad to hear that I'm learning some things on here as well. I had originally hoped that the answer to my original query was "yeah, she was really into you and you screwed it up by being needy and insecure, or moving too fast". This was my preferred outcome to this thread. If she was really into me and I screwed it up, I'd be pissed at myself for a long time, but I'd still walk out with the confidence that comes from being able to attract and sleep with a beautiful woman. But from what everyone is saying, it sounds like I never had a chance with her regardless. And maybe I can't get myself an 8 or 9 out of 10 girlfriend after all
Ruby Slippers Posted August 5, 2019 Posted August 5, 2019 And maybe I can't get myself an 8 or 9 out of 10 girlfriend after all Countless studies show that relationships are most successful when the couple are similarly matched in terms of background, intelligence, and looks. When one is much more "blessed" than the other in any of these areas, the power dynamic tends to be thrown off, somebody feels disrespected, and things fall apart. Most men who get dramatically better-looking women are paying for them straight out, meaning love isn't part of the equation.
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 5, 2019 Author Posted August 5, 2019 She throws herself at a guy, then dumps him once he makes it clear he's interested in more than just sex. I'm not 100% sure this is the case. Like I said, the conversation for the whole day after was normal like it had been before the date There was more sex talk obviously. She kept bringing up things we did and how good it was. She was still being very flirty at this point and the only hint of regret was that we'd both had to go to work in the morning, and had no sleep. I'll hold my tongue from saying what I'd really like to say about her. If she did indeed use me, knowing that she wasn't going to give me a shot, I'd probably have some things to say about her as well. I'm just not entirely sure it was the case. I think you dodged a bullet. Possibly, or missed out on something great by not chilling out. She insisted she did genuinely really like me but I was too intense too soon. I'll never know if this is the truth. The only way I'd know, is if she popped up again and wanted to seriously date. But this won't happen. I've deleted her number as well so I don't get tempted to reach out in future. This might sound weird coming from a guy, but I'm not sure I'll have sex on a first date again unless I'm sure both parties will be cool with the possibility of it going no further.
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 5, 2019 Author Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) Countless studies show that relationships are most successful when the couple are similarly matched in terms of background, intelligence, and looks. When one is much more "blessed" than the other in any of these areas, the power dynamic tends to be thrown off, somebody feels disrespected, and things fall apart. Most men who get dramatically better-looking women are paying for them straight out, meaning love isn't part of the equation. Regardless of what my recent date's motives were, there was no denying she was attracted to me. She super-liked me on Tinder to begin with because she said I looked really handsome. This may have been lip service but she got a big wide smile across her face and seemed really excited when I met her. And when we were kissing later, she was sitting on my knee with her hands on my face, staring into my eyes, giggling and smiling. There was a palpable feeling of sexual tension and attraction. I find it hard to believe it wasn't genuine. If it wasn't she deserves an Oscar. Even if it was just all a quick lay for her, she certainly wasn't looking at me like she thought I was a 6/10. It is possible, however, that she believes she is also a 6/10. I've also had younger, more attractive women coming onto me in the past because they said they thought I was sexy. They liked that I made them laugh, they liked how I looked and how I carried myself. I keep hearing from women that a guy's looks are secondary to how you make them feel, unless the girl is less mature or really shallow and looking for a pretty fashion accessory to hang off her arm. I'd quite like to know the true answer to this question one day, because the evidence suggests that men are quite often capable of attracting and holding onto women that are physically better looking than them. Edited August 5, 2019 by AgentCormac78
ExpatInItaly Posted August 5, 2019 Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) She implied that she was serious about trying to date me, just that it had to go slowly. Then she talked me into taking her home You have to take things like with a grain of salt when they're coming from a stranger, OP. Someone with decent judgment and a rational thought process won't decide based on one night that they'd like to date you more seriously. See you for another date, of course. Decide you seem like a cool guy and they'd like to get to know you better, of course. More than that? Don't put too much weight into their words when they barely know you. You also have to learn to distinguish between sexual chemistry and real compatibility on other levels. Some people are great in bed but terrible dating candidates. Others love the validation that comes with sex, but aren't so interested in the other person as a potential relationship partner. Edited August 5, 2019 by ExpatInItaly
Author AgentCormac78 Posted August 5, 2019 Author Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) You have to take things like with a grain of salt when they're coming from a stranger, OP. Yeah, I am a bit trusting that way. It's a flaw of mine. You also have to learn to distinguish between sexual chemistry and real compatibility on other levels. Some people are great in bed but terrible dating candidates. Others love the validation that comes with sex, but aren't so interested in the other person as a potential relationship partner. We had been speaking to each other via text pretty much all day every day for a about a week before the date. We had discussed our tastes in things, what our values were, what we were looking for in our lives, goals and ambitions etc. By the time our date was coming round she'd told me she was already very attracted to my personality, and that if I looked somewhat similar to my pictures then she was going to be attracted to me physically as well. I honestly couldn't say for sure what she wanted from me. She said something at some point that prompted me to say to her "I get the impression you really quite like me", and she replied with something like "I do like you, but I'm aware I get infatuated quite quickly, I jump into things too quickly, then it goes belly-up. So we need to take things slowly. I'm the kind of girl that gets scared off if things too intense at the start". It's the things she said like this, that make me think she may have genuinely liked me and gotten frightened off. I dunno, maybe she was just trying to warn me off in a subtle way because she know it wasn't going anywhere. Edited August 5, 2019 by AgentCormac78
ExpatInItaly Posted August 5, 2019 Posted August 5, 2019 she replied with something like "I do like you, but I'm aware I get infatuated quite quickly, I jump into things too quickly, then it goes belly-up. So we need to take things slowly. I'm the kind of girl that gets scared off if things too intense at the start". It's the things she said like this, that make me think she may have genuinely liked me and gotten frightened off. I dunno, maybe she was just trying to warn me off in a subtle way because she know it wasn't going anywhere. Well, exactly, she knows she's hung up on someone else.
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