lana-banana Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Man, this seems like a lot of overthinking to me. I was never out there holding guys to artificial standards about call times, date planning, etc, and I certainly wasn't dropping someone just because he did something "wrong". If I was legitimately interested in a guy for whatever reason, I was always excited to see him again no matter when or how it happened. If I wasn't that hot on him to begin with, then I might've looked at him less charitably, but he had already been ruled out in my mind. I really don't think that many women are deciding they're done with men for one supposed slip-up or whatever. It doesn't work that way. If someone likes you, they like you, period. When you have women on these boards talking about "mixed signals" or "is he still interested??" it's because they really like the guy even if everyone else can see it's not mutual. Same for the guys who keep calling ladies that obviously aren't feeling it. The "rules" are for gauging the other person's interest, not for grading them. If a guy is calling you regularly, setting up dates shortly, etc, then you can be moderately confident that he's into you. But if you really and truly like the person, then you often get rose-colored glasses on and don't care about anything else other than seeing the other person again.
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 But it’s all part of your strategy because they are about you and not about making assumptions about him. hmmmm I would say both. it is my preference a guy calls and whatever benefits I get from receiving a phone call from my guy but I also believe guys who dont call (within context) after being well acquainted is either clueless, avoidant, dont see the value in connecting...all those things I alluded to earlier in which I would want to avoid in dating... and again I dont see it any different then the many strategies a guy takes. those strategies you men like to do is about YOU and the assumptions you make about the women you date. we going to have to agree to disagree on that my friend 1
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Man, this seems like a lot of overthinking to me. doesnt take much thought for me. if a guy dont call I more than likely would naturally lose interest and a guy that calls along with other things I consider basics I would naturally focus on. easy peasy for me. When you have women on these boards talking about "mixed signals" or "is he still interested??" it's because they really like the guy even if everyone else can see it's not mutual. Same for the guys who keep calling ladies that obviously aren't feeling it. what exactly is happening for people to complain about "hot and cold" "mixed signals". one minute he was texting then he stopped. one minute he was calling but he stopped. he is canceling dates. he stopped asking me out. there are certain behaviors that leads people to label a person distant, hot and cold, orbiting, ghoster, flaky, etc. so for some they have standards against those behaviors they consider flaky or undesirable in general. thats all.
preraph Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 I know it's a two-way street, but I'm struggling to understand what I'm doing wrong. Don't assume it's you. There's something lacking in them that they cancel a first date, generally. Maybe they're just nervous to meet a new person. That could be all it is. Maybe they're too disorganized to get their crap together for a date. Lots of people are like that. Good riddance. Maybe they're a drug addict who didn't find their drug yet and aren't going anywhere until they get it or don't think they'll be able to use around you. I've actually had that happen in the distant past. Doesn't matter. They are not a good match because they are too messed up some way to get to the date, so just be glad you found that out before you got attached. Don't ever keep pursuing. 1
Kitty Tantrum Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Kinda depends on what it is, but typically I like to observe what people do without my input when I'm deciding whether or not I can tolerate having them around (that goes for friendships as well). I don't have the patience for much verbal negotiation. I don't want to feel like I'm nagging, or like I have to submit regular Relationship Work Orders to keep things functional. I'm not terribly picky, but I kinda have a standard for what I consider to be acceptable human behavior, and anybody who doesn't measure up without my input is probably not going to find ANY place of prominence in my life. If it comes down to my own quirks, pet peeves, "triggers," etc., then yeah - it's only fair that I make my needs known as they become relevant, if not before. Example: I dislike and have a bit of a stress/adrenaline reaction to dogs (big or small - not fear, more like the instinctive reaction of wanting to chase them away), and have some pretty strict conditions under which they are allowed in my home and personal space. Even things like that aren't going to be laid out upfront, though. Enough people have treated me like I'm not allowed to HAVE needs of my own that I tend to keep them under wraps until I've determined whether the person in question is likely to be receptive to hearing about them. Most people are just going to keep on doing the way they do, no matter what I say; why waste my breath? 1
smackie9 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 It's not only expectations, but dating style needs to be included in the assessment. if I don't hear from a guy for a week, then calls me up and asks what I'm doing a week from then...it's going to be a no, or the "lets meet for brunch on Sunday"...nope.
basil67 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 never made that assumption My bad. I thought your definition of "basic dating skills" referred to men learning to do all the initial reaching out. The terminology of it being a basic skill alluding to it being something all women want. For clarity, what are these basic dating skills you're referring to? And how do women who are proactive in their approach play into it? 1
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 My bad. I thought your definition of "basic dating skills" referred to men learning to do all the initial reaching out. The terminology of it being a basic skill alluding to it being something all women want. For clarity, what are these basic dating skills you're referring to? And how do women who are proactive in their approach play into it? If there are women who feel the need to do extra communication concerning things that I myself deem basics then that’s cool and all if that’s what they want to do but that’s a hell no for me. That was all I was pretty much saying. But Since you want to know my opinion....I do see that extra communication the third camp does as teaching/hand holding/coddling a man past necessary or even good. Yes, I do see it as doing “his job” for a lack of better word. Yes I do see some of those actions in certain context as low value and lack self respect and can unnecessarily work against women generally speaking. Yes I do see guys that need that push concerning what I deem basics as a no go for many reasons I already stated. Why? My view is simple. Guys that want to be with you, talk to you, date you, be affectionate, be your boyfriend...will simply do those things on his own and will let it be known. He does not need/should not need my help in this area. And if you had to help him I’m sorry but that’s a guy that I don’t want/need. And if you chose to help him well do you boo but again not my thing. The things that I consider to be bare bone basics for me to continue dating a guy is calling consistently, asking me out consistently, being affectionate, being respectful, and asking for exclusivity within a reasonable amount of time. If he is not doing those things he is not the guy for me. I will not be teaching him these basics nor will I be proactive/initiating/chasing or doing any type of extra communication on these things. I believe in reciprocation and communication and even being open on some things. But for the most part these particular areas he should do on his own with very little communication if any from me.
I'veseenbetterlol Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 In the very beginning of a new dating scenario, I think it's best to sit back and observe whether my early dating needs are being met by the prospect more organically, naturally. Once the relationship is a little more established, then I'll start voicing needs. In the beginning, it's more about whether it's clear that th man is truly interested in me and demonstrating that his dating goals and my dating goals overall are similar at least. Later is more about having good communication and understanding of what makes me happy on a more intimate level emotionally and in terms of lifestyle. It's not fair to make a man guess what you need/want. Lots of women don't say anything while stewing about what she needs and resenting the man just because he's not a mind reader . . . Bingo! I feel no one will perfect and you may need tweak some things a little. I've noticed in the past if the guy isn't answering my messages (active on social media though), he isn't interested. I can't count how many times I've had to almost beg for these guys to text me w/absolutely no improvement. I'd say if the person isn't meeting your basic needs, find someone who will.
Sunlight72 Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) Women IMO are easy to please, they mostly just want consistent love, attention and affection and they want to be treated as a decent human being, by their "chosen one". Haaaaa haaa haaaaaaa haaaa haaa ha Sure. But not too much, at the start, that's needy and creepy. Why are you paying so much attention to me? Aren't you happy with your own single life? But maybe later during weeks 3.7 to 12.3 (or 14.8, depending), and then she needs to focus on her family/work/house projects that she's been neglecting. But don't be aloof! If she wants attention/affection, quit playing games! Pay attention to me! Not now, don't you have your own life? Why are you listening to me?? You're smothering me. You didn't call for a day and a half, what kind of game are you playing? Super simple. Edited July 17, 2019 by Sunlight72 2
PRW Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 A guy who don’t call consistently, ask me out consistently, ask for exclusivity within a reasonable time, not affectionate, not respectful...is just one of those things to me that’s bare bone basics.They are basic, but they don't all go into the same basket at the same moment. "not affectionate, not respectful..." belongs in the Global Basket and should be in effect immediately from the moment you meet "call consistently, ask me out consistently," This is the "You have to earn" Basket. I am not going to call and consistently offer dates to a woman who has not become my GF yet. I may do this in a gradually increasing way as we get closer to being BF/GF, but until that happens you are not "there yet", and until you are, you may or may not be the only woman in the scenario,... so if you aren't the only woman,...how do I do this fairly, or evenly, across 2-3 women where none of them are yet "GF"? It is impossible. "ask for exclusivity within a reasonable time," I don't want to get too buried in this one but it takes some explaining. I firmly believe it takes women, particularly emotionally healthy women, longer to get to wanting this than men do. Men need to show discipline to keep themselves under control and wait till the woman is ready. Men are more mission oriented, they have a goal and they want to knock out that goal and conquer as quickly and efficiently as possible which is bad for relationships. So (baring Players and commitment-phobes, which you already don't want anyway) if the guy asks for exclusivity it is almost always too soon. But out of fear of losing the guy, the woman often agrees to it,...and then always has that vague feeling in the back of her mind that something does not feel right. That uneasiness more often than not will eat away at the foundation of the relationship until it brings it to a drama filled end. Therefore I insist that the question about exclusivity needs to come from the woman and the guy needs to wait for it, and than he either agree to it or he does not agree to it. Most of the time he would have already been waiting for it and wondering if she was ever going to get around to bringing it up. 2
SmartDude Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 I really don't think that many women are deciding they're done with men for one supposed slip-up or whatever. It doesn't work that way. If someone likes you, they like you, period. When you have women on these boards talking about "mixed signals" or "is he still interested??" it's because they really like the guy even if everyone else can see it's not mutual. Same for the guys who keep calling ladies that obviously aren't feeling it. The "rules" are for gauging the other person's interest, not for grading them. If a guy is calling you regularly, setting up dates shortly, etc, then you can be moderately confident that he's into you. But if you really and truly like the person, then you often get rose-colored glasses on and don't care about anything else other than seeing the other person again. That is cool, and a lot of the time I notice women operating this way. But then there is the other reality. Women will stop seeing a guy over a slight mistake and judge him too quickly in the beginning over some perceived offense. They will interpenetrate meaning and signals from the guys actions, which have nothing to do with his actual intentions. Then if she blabs to her girlfriends for advice on the guy, its pretty much over at that point.
Author DrNo1962 Posted July 17, 2019 Author Posted July 17, 2019 That is cool, and a lot of the time I notice women operating this way. But then there is the other reality. Women will stop seeing a guy over a slight mistake and judge him too quickly in the beginning over some perceived offense. They will interpenetrate meaning and signals from the guys actions, which have nothing to do with his actual intentions. Then if she blabs to her girlfriends for advice on the guy, its pretty much over at that point. This has been my experience too. Women who struggle with vulnerability or being emotionally secure within themselves tend to ditch guys on a whim. If their GF's get in her ear about you, you're toast. I have found that the emotionally healthy and independent women I've dated in the past have spoken up when their expectations are not being met (even in the honeymoon phase). They aren't scared of rejection and are prepared to make things work if the interest is high. The fact of the matter is that nobody is perfect and you have to be prepared to take the good with the bad. Open communication and willingness to work on things for the better allows a couple to move things forward. Silence, stonewalling, stubbornness and short-sightedness tends to cause the courtship to end (from my experience at least). 1
Sam2020 Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 This has been my experience too. Women who struggle with vulnerability or being emotionally secure within themselves tend to ditch guys on a whim. If their GF's get in her ear about you, you're toast. I have found that the emotionally healthy and independent women I've dated in the past have spoken up when their expectations are not being met (even in the honeymoon phase). They aren't scared of rejection and are prepared to make things work if the interest is high. The fact of the matter is that nobody is perfect and you have to be prepared to take the good with the bad. Open communication and willingness to work on things for the better allows a couple to move things forward. Silence, stonewalling, stubbornness and short-sightedness tends to cause the courtship to end (from my experience at least). I tend to agree here. If on a first date and it's with a guy who I may want to see again, I mention that I feel cared for when others want to spend time with me. I do this in a very light, playful way as not to appear needy (because I'm far from needy). I just enjoy being around the people I like.
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 Haaaaa haaa haaaaaaa haaaa haaa ha Sure. But not too much, at the start, that's needy and creepy. Why are you paying so much attention to me? Aren't you happy with your own single life? But maybe later during weeks 3.7 to 12.3 (or 14.8, depending), and then she needs to focus on her family/work/house projects that she's been neglecting. But don't be aloof! If she wants attention/affection, quit playing games! Pay attention to me! Not now, don't you have your own life? Why are you listening to me?? You're smothering me. You didn't call for a day and a half, what kind of game are you playing? Super simple. If that is one woman’s complaint then I would say she is bat ish But I imagine that’s different women’s complaints. The girl that complains about quality time normally don’t complain about you not having your own life. The girl that complain about you not having your own life normally is not complaining about pay attention to me. Unless you yourself go from one extreme to the next while being with her in that one relationship.
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 They are basic, but they don't all go into the same basket at the same moment. I agree "call consistently, ask me out consistently," This is the "You have to earn" Basket. I am not going to call and consistently offer dates to a woman who has not become my GF yet. I may do this in a gradually increasing way as we get closer to being BF/GF, but until that happens you are not "there yet", and until you are, you may or may not be the only woman in the scenario,... so if you aren't the only woman,...how do I do this fairly, or evenly, across 2-3 women where none of them are yet "GF"? It is impossible. That’s fine because me personally I won’t consider him serious about me until that happens. I also will not be focusing on just him until he is at that stage with me. Like I said basics. At the beginning I am not sure about him myself so I’m not necessarily expecting to talk everyday before the first date. For some men they call at the beginning and some men it’s gradual. But after awhile of dating if he is not calling consistently in between dates more than likely someone else will do better if he takes his time for too long. Now if he all the sudden see me as something more and wants to increase talking and I’m still available well great. If he doesnt? still great because I’m either going to focus on a guy who does call consistently along with the other basics I mentioned and/or I will voluntarily stop engaging with him all together if he doesn’t even ask for exclusivity within 2-3 months anyway lol. It would still stand that I am going to naturally focus on the guy I like who does the basics. What he does is his business and I will be about my own. Therefore I insist that the question about exclusivity needs to come from the woman and the guy needs to wait for it, and than he either agree to it or he does not agree to it. Most of the time he would have already been waiting for it and wondering if she was ever going to get around to bringing it up. I won’t agree to exclusivity until I been on few dates with him for like a month. We not doing that first date instant boyfriend bull and he still a dag on stranger. But if a suitor I have gotten well acquainted with after a month who shows promise consistently doesn’t ask for exclusivity within 2-3 months then I will stop dating and talking to him. I haven’t had to do that yet though. Guys who have normally done the basics consistently asked me to be their girlfriend. Me personally I don’t believe a man needs help in this area. If he wants to be with me he will let that be known.
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 Women will stop seeing a guy over a slight mistake and judge him too quickly in the beginning over some perceived offense. They will interpenetrate meaning and signals from the guys actions, which have nothing to do with his actual intentions. Then if she blabs to her girlfriends for advice on the guy, its pretty much over at that point. It’s not a woman thing. It’s human thing. Both men and women do it. We can let go of a person for one thing or we can overlook a myriad of things. It comes down to what that person deems important at that particular time even if it’s not necessarily wise or good for you unfortunately He didn’t pay for the meal. No thank you. She’s not sexually open. No thank you Ooooh He is masculine even though he is dismissive of my opinions and was mean to the waiter but I like him. Oooooh She sexy even though she is a bit catty talking about her friends and Is clearly a shopoholic
SmartDude Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 It’s not a woman thing. It’s human thing. Both men and women do it. We can let go of a person for one thing or we can overlook a myriad of things. It comes down to what that person deems important at that particular time even if it’s not necessarily wise or good for you unfortunately He didn’t pay for the meal. No thank you. She’s not sexually open. No thank you Ooooh He is masculine even though he is dismissive of my opinions and was mean to the waiter but I like him. Oooooh She sexy even though she is a bit catty talking about her friends and Is clearly a shopoholic That is a nice theory but we all know women do most of the rejecting. In nature it is the females who are selective about their mates.
Curiousroxy86 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) says the one of many men on ls alone who is very vocal about the type of woman he would or would not date Edited July 18, 2019 by Curiousroxy86
PRW Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 I will voluntarily stop engaging with him all together if he doesn’t even ask for exclusivity within 2-3 months anyway lol. Then we'd never get anywhere if it was us. I'm going to wait for the woman to start the conversation on that,...I won't do it,...it just isn't going to happen. I would be expecting it around the 2 month mark. All it needs to be is a simple question like "Where is all this going?" Then I would ask "What's on your mind?" and try to get her to open up and say that she is looking for exclusivity. If that is what it turns out to be then that is my moment to accept it or not. There is a 99% chance I have already been patiently waiting for it, but this is the way it has to play out for me,...the exclusivity must be "her idea".
PRW Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 That is a nice theory but we all know women do most of the rejecting. In nature it is the females who are selective about their mates.Exactly, men present the opportunity, the woman chooses or rejects. That is why it is so important for a man to learn how to read women to know how interested they are (rather than fooling himself),... before he even goes after the 1st date. The flip side of that is that women need to learn how to honestly show interest or not show interest so that the guy has the right signals to determine it by. If the guy gets the wrong idea it may not be his fault.
rightondude Posted July 20, 2019 Posted July 20, 2019 "ask for exclusivity within a reasonable time," I don't want to get too buried in this one but it takes some explaining. I firmly believe it takes women, particularly emotionally healthy women, longer to get to wanting this than men do. Men need to show discipline to keep themselves under control and wait till the woman is ready. Men are more mission oriented, they have a goal and they want to knock out that goal and conquer as quickly and efficiently as possible which is bad for relationships. So (baring Players and commitment-phobes, which you already don't want anyway) if the guy asks for exclusivity it is almost always too soon. But out of fear of losing the guy, the woman often agrees to it,...and then always has that vague feeling in the back of her mind that something does not feel right. That uneasiness more often than not will eat away at the foundation of the relationship until it brings it to a drama filled end. Therefore I insist that the question about exclusivity needs to come from the woman and the guy needs to wait for it, and than he either agree to it or he does not agree to it. Most of the time he would have already been waiting for it and wondering if she was ever going to get around to bringing it up. Bingo. Always wait for a woman to introduce you as "her boyfriend" before you go calling her your girlfriend. That way she has won the prize. That's a huge step for a woman. And don't go asking questions about "what are we?" ... that's a no win question. You should just KNOW what you are and go with it/act like it. Don't ask for validation. I can't agree with CuriousRoxy86 more on the phone call aspect being important. Maybe if you're sub-30 texting is enough, but for those of us sage, voice is crucial. I think that has made all the difference in my last few relationships being taken seriously. Do it as often as she likes it. 5-6 dates and a drop off means you bored her. That's the simple answer. Don't be boring. Be un-boring.
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