Women of the forum: Do you let your needs be known?

[Redhead14]

I've been more surprised than ambivalent. The last girl I dated initiated date # 6, we made a plan and then she backed out the day before. I told her to get in touch when she's free to get together again. She let me know 1 week later that she wasn't ready for a relationship.

 

I seem to go through the process of a great first month and a bit of dating and it just falls off a cliff out of nowhere.

 

I know it's a two-way street, but I'm struggling to understand what I'm doing wrong.

 

Perhaps I need to sharpen up my sensory acuity skills?

 

 

If a woman is responding to your reach outs and accepting dates, you need to just rest on that as a positive sign. There's no telling when/if a woman is going to decide/realize that you're not the "one". Not even the women know when that "bell" will go off. If it seems like it's like clock work for you, then there is some change in your behavior that happens at that point in a dating scenario that comes to the forefront that wasn't there earlier. Maybe you're backing off on reaching out because you're feeling too comfortable at that point???? Maybe your chase style changes too soon???

 

You mentioned earlier only having one date a week. If you doing that for more than a month, it's gonna seem like low interest. A guy who is really interested in a woman will want to see her more than once a week. By the same token, at some point the woman should be doing some initiating, so if she isn't, that's sign to you that she's got low interest herself. It is what it is. But more than that, if you were really into a woman, you'd probably be upping things naturally anyway. You might just simply not have found a woman yet that makes you really all in for her.

 

What is your contact in between dates like? Are you keeping in light touch at least in between?

 

Bottom line really is that it's really difficult to pin down. If you figure out how to accommodate every woman's needs/style and modify your approach, you're going to end up being a chameleon and exhausted.

 

Just be yourself and realize that there will be a ton more dating prospects that down work for you and vice versa than there are ones that do. It's just the way it is.

 

If you're really interested in a woman, show it without being overboard and try to up things a little bit as things progress.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Redhead14

[elaine567]

People who want a relationship need to see some progress else what is it?

A convenient meet up, a catch up, a nice dinner, a rendezvous for sex?

One needs to see increasing attention...increasing interest... a deeper connection. Without that it is friend, FWB, casual sex territory and for those who want more, that is not enough for a real relationship, that is a waste of their time...

[smackie9]

Interesting responses so far.

 

Negating all the obvious sign's of a bad date (rude, abusive, unhygienic etc.), what are your baseline needs/expectations that need to be met early on for your interest level to be high?

Not those things...it's about being attentive, actually listening, planning and keeping dates, communicating between dates, wanting to see me/making time for me, and making a positive impression, being thoughtful, dressing nice, etc. Why? because I do these things and I expect it to be reciprocated. Oh and bring me flowers because I like to be treated like a lady.

[PRW]

Interesting responses so far.

 

Negating all the obvious sign's of a bad date (rude, abusive, unhygienic etc.), what are your baseline needs/expectations that need to be met early on for your interest level to be high?

Yes. In the early period we aren't BF/GF and we don't owe each other anything. If I go out with her on Fri night and she wants to go out with a different guy on Sunday night,...knock yourself out.

 

If you want me to act like a BF you'd better wait till we actually "get there". I'm not going to be obligated to text/call multiple times week at the beginning. Even if we were BF/GF I'm still only using the phone to make plans and arrangements with you. I don't "visit" via phone,...I come see you in person.

 

In part at least, some of my positions on this is exactly for the purpose of weeding out women who have such over expectations and high emotional maintenance qualities. We're adults, this isn't high school. It can even come across to me as them feeling "entitled" and I am never going to get along with someone who has an attitude of entitlement.

[SmartDude]

Seriously, women have become too selective and guarded in the USA. They are not fun anymore and there are too many subtle unspoken rules. It has gotten to the point were it simply is not worth it at all.

 

 

Drop hints and act like your the one in charge all day long. No one cares anymore..

[PRW]

Not those things...it's about being attentive, actually listening, planning and keeping dates, communicating between dates, wanting to see me/making time for me, and making a positive impression, being thoughtful, dressing nice, etc. Why? because I do these things and I expect it to be reciprocated. Oh and bring me flowers because I like to be treated like a lady.

I'm fine with all that, it is standard procedure. But I'm not going to do "check ins". If you tell me you want me to I will tell you up front that I won't. If your not my GF [yet] and I happen to be out on another "1st" date with another, I'm not going to say, "Excuse me for a moment while I "check in" with my date from last Friday.

 

 

But flowers are reserved for relationship behavor down the road if we get that far.

[PRW]

Seriously, women have become too selective and guarded in the USA. They are not fun anymore and there are too many subtle unspoken rules. It has gotten to the point were it simply is not worth it at all.

 

Drop hints and act like your the one in charge all day long. No one cares anymore..

 

I'm part of a singles group of 4500 people. For some reason "dating" was a hot topic of discussion over the weekend. I had a long discussion with a woman who is relatively attractive but I can't remember the last time she even came close to having a date. She was all about all of her "demands" and what the guy is supposed to do, not do, and what she was supposed to get out of it. But there was not a word about what would she bring to the table. It was like she never intended to ever tell the guy what she expected either,...he was supposed to just "know",...and yes she pretty much came out and said exactly that.

 

I also see the 80/20 rule in full force at every event. You get a few of the more "loose & free" ones (top 2% of each gender) chasing each other in circles and maybe "getting a little action" if you want to call it that but for all the rest,...they arrive alone,...leave alone,...over and over and over and over. The 80% just target the top 20%, while the top 20% target the top 2% out of that top 20%, and that same top 2% grow tired of "everyone coming after them" and disappear. Everyone wants the rockstar.

 

Anyway, yes, I don't try very hard to actually gets dates much any longer. I was always the more traditional/conservative guy and only wanted to date "one at a time" and let it run its course before trying another in hopes of finding the magical mythical "The One". Then woke up one day alone in my 50's and realized I wasted my life away. I was never a FWB type and always thought that was just a horrible low-life way to approach it,...but as screwed up as society and gender relations are now it is fast starting to look like the only "tolerable" approach any longer for anyone middle-aged who isn't going to be making babies.

Edited July 15, 2019 by PRW

[preraph]

If it's just nonexclusive dating or interest, I try to see what he will do and might interject my opinion about something, but I want to know what he's really like, because I never planned on staying together with a guy I had to nag.

[MaleIntuition]

I for the most part agree with Elaine

 

However 1-2 months is reasonable time for you to decide you want to be the girls exclusive boyfriend. If at 6 weeks your genuinely not sure if you want to be exclusive you don’t have to rush into a relationship if that’s the reason your not giving any labels by that time. But if you really was open to exclusivity then yea I would say don’t unnecessarily prolong because women who want exclusivity are either of two camps they foolishly wait for the dude past reasonable time or they don’t and if you been attracted to women with self respect I imagine they are moving on because your moving too slow.

 

And that once a week contact crap? Yeah you should stop that lol. That change alone imo should make a big difference.

 

Was that the “trivial” mistakes you are referring to?

 

And you also have the third, successful, camp; whom when they think the pace is too slow start to book/plan some dates themselves. If you want more contact: call him. If you are cold in his apartment: ask to borrow a pair of socks! Most men are terrible mind readers.

[smackie9]

I'm fine with all that, it is standard procedure. But I'm not going to do "check ins". If you tell me you want me to I will tell you up front that I won't. If your not my GF [yet] and I happen to be out on another "1st" date with another, I'm not going to say, "Excuse me for a moment while I "check in" with my date from last Friday.

 

 

But flowers are reserved for relationship behavor down the road if we get that far.

 

 

BTW I wouldn't want "check ins" or "good morning texts" Would like a random chat once in awhile or sending a joke, whatever...very casual, going with the flow type of thing. Flowers...I'm old fashioned in that respect...not expecting a doz roses. I wouldn't tell you or anyone anything, I would see it as not my type and move on. I'm looking for someone different from you quite obviously. We are on opposite ends of expectations, which is fine. So this is what the OP has to see. You date those who treat you the way you want to be treated.

[littleblackheart]

OP, are these women 'multidating' perhaps, and are taking their interest elsewhere after a handful of dates?

 

I guess when the interest is strong and mutual, it's obvious you're going about it the right way. If she likes you, she would tell you what her 'contact level' I assume.

Edited July 15, 2019 by littleblackheart

[Gretchen12]

In early days of dating, things like getting phone calls/texts are not needs. I have no emotional attachment to the guy at this point, so of course I don't need him to call me. He is not expectated to shower me with attention. In fact, if he does that for the sake of doing it, it creeps me out. I have wants, and those things I say spontaneously (eg. Hey I wanna try this restaurant...).

 

I think it is the same with all relationships, even among relatives. If you don't put in the effort to talk or get together, you can drift apart and relationships do cool off. It's just that with friends, it's not difficult to get close again after a period of low contact. With early dating, you fade out permanently because there's no history of a bond to return to. I've lost interest in men who just kind of loiter around. I don't need to strike them out, the whole thing just dies a natural death.

[Curiousroxy86]

And you also have the third, successful, camp; whom when they think the pace is too slow start to book/plan some dates themselves. If you want more contact: call him. If you are cold in his apartment: ask to borrow a pair of socks! Most men are terrible mind readers.

 

Oh yea I forgot about them lol. That’s cool if those women want to teach a man basic dating and relationship skills.

 

But that second camp I spoke of...the camp of he should know better and if he is not doing it he must don’t want to do it so I am not going to nag nor wait and will just move on to somebody who don’t have that problem is also successful in eventually finding someone else who knows the basics. Sorry but guys who don’t call are either on some game playing jaded women hating dating advice type ish, too busy for a relationship, don’t like talking on the phone and is avoidant and don’t value the importance of communication and connection, juggling so many women that he can’t find the time to try to connect, or clueless about women/relationships in general and is a guy I personally don’t want to date.

 

I do agree with you male that guys are not mind readers and there are some things that he won’t just know and requires communication. Both men and women don’t know each other’s rule books. And I do try to be open because of that fact. But there are things that he knows very well and I’m unapologetically just not tolerant. A guy who don’t call consistently, ask me out consistently, ask for exclusivity within a reasonable time, not affectionate, not respectful...is just one of those things to me that’s bare bone basics. If he can’t do that I won’t date him at all or atleast not for long.

 

I do speak up when I am too cold by the way. That wasn’t me who said that nor did I agree with the poster who would cut a guy off for it. Many guys gladly gave me a jacket sweater blanket socks or cuddled me

[Shining One]

I'm guilty of dropping quite a few women early on for not doing things I want them to do, so I can hardly fault women for doing the same. I wish everyone would clearly communicate their wants, myself included, but that's not the way the world works at the moment.

[MaleIntuition]

Oh yea I forgot about them lol. That’s cool if those women want to teach a man basic dating and relationship skills.

 

But that second camp I spoke of...the camp of he should know better and if he is not doing it he must don’t want to do it so I am not going to nag nor wait and will just move on to somebody who don’t have that problem is also successful in eventually finding someone else who knows the basics. Sorry but guys who don’t call are either on some game playing jaded women hating dating advice type ish, too busy for a relationship, don’t like talking on the phone and is avoidant and don’t value the importance of communication and connection, juggling so many women that he can’t find the time to try to connect, or clueless about women/relationships in general and is a guy I personally don’t want to date.

 

I do agree with you male that guys are not mind readers and there are some things that he won’t just know and requires communication. Both men and women don’t know each other’s rule books. And I do try to be open because of that fact. But there are things that he knows very well and I’m unapologetically just not tolerant. A guy who don’t call consistently, ask me out consistently, ask for exclusivity within a reasonable time, not affectionate, not respectful...is just one of those things to me that’s bare bone basics. If he can’t do that I won’t date him at all or atleast not for long.

 

I do speak up when I am too cold by the way. That wasn’t me who said that nor did I agree with the poster who would cut a guy off for it. Many guys gladly gave me a jacket sweater blanket socks or cuddled me

 

Calling everyday is not a basic dating skill! It’s your preference. I promise you; plenty of girls would consider that too much after just a couple of dates. And the same is true for pace - some women prefers a slower approach while some would want to spend every second together. My whole point is that you shouldn’t have a rule book in the first place - but instead improve your intuition and ability to correctly read people.

 

The most common reason a man isn’t calling is probably because he is afraid of social rejection. When we really like a girl, we might need some time to gather the courage so to speak. Every time we ask for a date; we expose ourselves for rejection - and that can be pretty darn nerve wrecking. The exception is of course when we aren’t really that interested; because we really don’t care about the outcome.

 

I’m glad you realised the reason we keep our homes cold is for them cuddles

[elaine567]

My whole point is that you shouldn’t have a rule book in the first place - but instead improve your intuition and ability to correctly read people.

 

And that is the bottom line.

Too many, especially men and "strugglers" rely on rigid rules and formulae and when they don't work, they are lost. They get bitter and blame women for their own deficiencies.

 

Developing social skills is key. Women in general are usually pretty social and emotionally aware.

When faced with men who have limited social skills and are emotionally "handicapped", they tend to pass sooner or later.

 

Women IMO are easy to please, they mostly just want consistent love, attention and affection and they want to be treated as a decent human being, by their "chosen one".

Withholding any of these due to game playing or immaturity or machismo, is doomed to fail at some point.

Every day we get some man moaning about losing the love of his life due to aloofness or coldness on his part or taking her for granted, yet all these "formulas" tend to advocate creating distance...

Time to ditch the formulas and start just listening and watching.

[basil67]

Oh yea I forgot about them lol. That’s cool if those women want to teach a man basic dating and relationship skills.

 

No. You're incorrect in your assumption that all women expect a man to initiate everything in the early dates. I was always happy to contribute in early dating. So when I contact him or ask him on a date, I'm teaching him what I like. If things didn't work out, and he goes dating again, he may well expect a woman to make some effort because this is what he's used to. So if a guy turns up not understanding that you want him to do all the work, don't blame him for not knowing....accept that the women before you were happy to share the load and this is all quite acceptable in their world. Why would you think he "should know better" if previous women have been perfectly happy to share in initiation?

 

Perhaps instead of judging him for not having dating skills, you could consider that they simply date differently to how YOU like it done.

Edited July 16, 2019 by basil67

[Curiousroxy86]

I'm guilty of dropping quite a few women early on for not doing things I want them to do, so I can hardly fault women for doing the same. I wish everyone would clearly communicate their wants, myself included, but that's not the way the world works at the moment.

 

but shining are there things that you would think a grown woman who wants the type of relationship you want should already know?

 

trust me I believe communication will do wonders in alot of things where we may differ but when it comes to compatibility some stuff really already should be there imo.

[MaleIntuition]

I think you are confusing two different concepts now Elaine. On the one hand we have rules to “sort out potential dating partners” based on arbitrary actions. What you are referring to is what I would call a dating strategy. The main difference is that the former has to do with your dates actions (making judgements) while the latter is about your actions.

 

For example; always greet a first date with a hug or/and remember to let her know you had a great time. Those are two easy examples of actions that can help men along the way.

 

The purpose of these dating strategies aren’t to “please her” but to improve your chances to be seen as attractive, and to be given a chance to show her who you are. Attraction is of course complicated, but there are certain things that are almost universally true such as: Shower before the date and make sure you look good. Try to have a good time during the first date; don’t complain about past dates, and save political discussions for another time. Be passionate about your interest and show interest in hers.

[Curiousroxy86]

IÂ’m glad you realised the reason we keep our homes cold is for them cuddles

 

lol clever men

 

Calling everyday is not a basic dating skill! ItÂ’s your preference. I promise you; plenty of girls would consider that too much after just a couple of dates. And the same is true for pace - some women prefers a slower approach while some would want to spend every second together. My whole point is that you shouldnÂ’t have a rule book in the first place - but instead improve your intuition and ability to correctly read people.

 

The most common reason a man isnÂ’t calling is probably because he is afraid of social rejection. When we really like a girl, we might need some time to gather the courage so to speak. Every time we ask for a date; we expose ourselves for rejection - and that can be pretty darn nerve wrecking. The exception is of course when we arenÂ’t really that interested; because we really donÂ’t care about the outcome.

 

maybe you dont consider it a basic dating skill. but I do think its a basic action that the guy I would be compatible with would take. I completely realize that there are people that dont like talking on the phone or dont think its important or necessary but the fact of the matter is I do. I think phone calls in between dates/seeing each other are very important and reasonable for two people that is really considering each other for a relationship or in an actual relationship therefore that is one of my standards.

 

now as far as reasons on why some men dont call. I cant say I agree that its "mostly" social rejection. at the beginning stages I can see that which is why I dont enforce this standard on guys I am just meeting. I give them time to see what they do on their own. but after that first date or second date he still not calling in between dates? I dont believe thats social rejection. I believe for the most part its not that important to him or that he doesnt want to and thats fine no hard feelings here but we wont date for long. and im perfectly fine with that lol.

[Curiousroxy86]

No. You're incorrect in your assumption that all women expect a man to initiate everything in the early dates.

 

never made that assumption

[Curiousroxy86]

I think you are confusing two different concepts now Elaine. On the one hand we have rules to “sort out potential dating partners” based on arbitrary actions. What you are referring to is what I would call a dating strategy. The main difference is that the former has to do with your dates actions (making judgements) while the latter is about your actions.

 

I see dating rules and dating strategies as the same thing. its just the way we choose to do things is all a dating rule/strategy is. you see a difference simply because you disagree with one strategy over the other. a woman choose to let men initiate to see if he naturally does the things she deems as important because it is attractive to respect a mans autonomy versus nagging him to do what you want him to do and also to determine compatibility so another benefit outside of attraction. a guy may choose to be aloof because he is trying to be attractive and at the same time gauge how much interest she shows...its all the same. just different actions for different reasons. premise is still the same which is that individual to get the best outcome that they think they are going to get.

[MaleIntuition]

I think phone calls in between dates/seeing each other are very important and reasonable for two people that is really considering each other for a relationship or in an actual relationship therefore that is one of my standards.

Yes, but this isn’t about the actual phone call; if it were you could have just as easily called him, and demonstrated this preference that way. The issue (in my opinion) is when you use this action (or lack therefore) as a means to assess interest on his part. If I call on Wednesday or Thursday and book a date for Saturday evening - I don’t see any purpose on a phone call for Friday. It could, however, come off as somewhat needy. The lack of a phone call in this case doesn’t indicate low interest.

[Curiousroxy86]

male if a guy called on Thursday and we have a date on Saturday I too would not assume "oh he is not interested in me" if he didnt call on Friday. I am not that strict if a guy miss a day or even a few days here and there.

 

however if I am talking to a guy and he dont call at all or call once a week consistently....even if he is setting up dates...I would think that yes he may be interested in seeing me but I would think he doesnt want to talk on the phone. and thats a type of relationship I wouldnt want to have with a guy. its one thing if we are at a stage where he is seeing me alot during the week then phone calls wouldnt be as important because we are seeing each other face to face. but if he is consistently seeing me once a week AND not calling in between then that guy would more than likely "lose" for lack of a better word. or better yet that guy would not be for me.

[MaleIntuition]

I see dating rules and dating strategies as the same thing. its just the way we choose to do things is all a dating rule/strategy is. you see a difference simply because you disagree with one strategy over the other. a woman choose to let men initiate to see if he naturally does the things she deems as important because it is attractive to respect a mans autonomy versus nagging him to do what you want him to do and also to determine compatibility so another benefit outside of attraction. a guy may choose to be aloof because he is trying to be attractive and at the same time gauge how much interest she shows...its all the same. just different actions for different reasons. premise is still the same which is that individual to get the best outcome that they think they are going to get.

 

No I definitely see a distinction between your strategy ie. how you behave and your “rules” ie. how you are judging him or hers interest/character.

 

For example, part of your strategy (if I remember correctly) is to never initiate, but be positive when he does. You also advocate multidating and to make clear counteroffer if you are uncomfortable/disagree with the proposed venue. Some of those things I agree with, others I consider to be too strict. But it’s all part of your strategy because they are about you and not about making assumptions about him.