Darkavengingangel Posted July 13, 2019 Posted July 13, 2019 Met a guy in October 2018 when I moved to a different part of the country (we're in England). Our backgrounds although different have many similarities - I'm a British- Kenyan female and he's a white British male. Here's the crux. When we met he was lovely, sweet, kind and so on although I found him rather shy. He'd show up if he said he was going to help me with a project, helped me fetch supplies from the forest when I needed it, drove me around the week i didn't have a car etc I was quite surprised to hear he had some radical views when a friend challenged him at a meeting once. Apparently white supremacy and the whole alt right shebang. Not hardcore. He just seema to watch their videos but nothing else.I simply thought fair enough as I believe everyone's entitled to their beliefs etc. I'm a dark skinned black female, locs, privately educated, from a very comfortable family, will freely give my opinions whilst his family had issues from the start - alcoholism, his father fought for custody of him and it cost him financially. Oddly enough I should have been his worst nightmare come to life but he kept turning up, hanging out with me, eventually kissed me etc one thing led to another and we started seeing each other from January of this year. I tried to wrap my head around how he could have his views and listen to the YouTube fanaticism yet be intimate with me. His argument was "I take everyone as an individual" which makes no sense as that is exactly what white supremacists don't do. He's besotted with me and 90% of the time he's a godsend. We've been away together several times, he loves my dogs, I've met his mum and stepdad, his entire family pretty much knows about me and he apparently talks about me all the time. He seemed to be hurting when I met him and has opened up a lot more over the last few months. However yesterday we had a huge argument about his views. I got fed up. We had an argument and I told him I wanted out of the relationship. It's been 24 hrs now and he's tried to text me back a few times to make amends but I don't know. His ideologies, when they crop up, are mind boggling. They rarely do and it's been a great time. My question is do I end things now at the 7 month mark before it gets too serious?
lonelyplanetmoon Posted July 13, 2019 Posted July 13, 2019 Dark I would follow your gut feelings. If you are uncomfortable about his views now, you will only grow more so later. People do not often change views as they get older, only believe more. (Unless they have a major life event that pivots them) I am Asian and was with a white bf for 15 years. He had a very sheltered life in a rural area with not very much diversity. He was very accepting of me at first which was why I liked him. But over time as he got more comfortable, the novelty wore off and he became critical of me and our differences. These attitudes were little things and built up over time so they crept in and did untold damage to my self esteem. I am strong woman in many ways, but this feeling of not being enough and made to feel bad for being different, did affect me a lot. I am working through it now and am doing ok. I don’t think he did theses things on purpose or maliciously, but his beliefs drive him just like anybody else and so they showed up in subtle and unconscious ways. My problem was that I did not pick up on the signs and leave earlier. Don’t make my mistake. You deserve someone who is consciously aware of their own prejudice and who is open to being challenged on them, just like you should be able to be challenged on yours. Thank you for posting your question it is helping me process my own questions on this subject.
Gretchen12 Posted July 13, 2019 Posted July 13, 2019 I don't see it as a question of whether he'll get worse later. You can't respect him because of his views. It doesn't matter how well he treats you. It's the same idea of speaking up when someone in a group makes a derogatory remark against another race. Although no one in the group is of that race, you still cannot remain silent. No matter how sweet and loving this guy is to you, you should have certain values that he cannot change.
chillii Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) Unfortunately if he does take his stuff seriously and there must be something in it or he wouldn't be watching the crap , then he probably fights with himself a lot underneath about being with you , damn strange that he even is considering. On the other hand , maybe with meeting you he doesn't feel that way anymore and discovered he was all wrong. lf you still like him or love him , just from the perspective of being 100% sure first before throwing it away , you need to get into his head properly about all this , talk about it all and find out 100% where he truly stands and thinks on you guys and if his stuff has changed now because of you, maybe he's remorseful maybe his ideals have totally swung about now and see's how wrong he was and bla bla. But l mean if nothing else has changed then yeah , not good. Edited July 14, 2019 by chillii
littleblackheart Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 It's been 24 hrs now and he's tried to text me back a few times to make amends but I don't know. He wants to make amends for being a garden variety white supremacist? His ideologies, when they crop up, are mind boggling. They rarely do and it's been a great time. No matter how rarely they crop up, he's still being a white supremacist even when he doesn't express his views. My question is do I end things now at the 7 month mark before it gets too serious? You can't un-know or pretend not to know of his views, or ignore your concerns. Can you live with someone who holds white supremacist views long-term? Do you think that by talking to him, you can get to the bottom of his prejudice? 1
Atwood Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 Misogynists date women, don’t they? Racists will date POC, too. There’s a common phenomenon where if someone sees a particular group as inferior, they don’t see them as particularly threatening and are more than happy to engage in relationships with them. This doesn’t mean they’ve stopped seeing that group as inferior, it just means they feel secure enough in their dominance and superiority that they feel they can “handle them”. H.P Lovecraft was racist and anti-semitic, but the love of his life was Jewish. It seemed that she was a woman so it didn’t count! I understand that you’ve taken each other at face value which is so admirable, but his racism won’t disappear because of how he feels about you. His views will cause problems eventually. 2
elaine567 Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 I know it is early doors but what are his views on mixed race kids?
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 14, 2019 Author Posted July 14, 2019 e You can't un-know or pretend not to know of his views, or ignore your concerns. Can you live with someone who holds white supremacist views long-term? Do you think that by talking to him, you can get to the bottom of his prejudice? I have an idea about what's caused his prejudices. Definitely a lack of education and the world at large. His parents custody issues had a deep impact on him and his father pretty much lost any money he had. Mum was heavily into booze when he was a kid (she was also abused as a child), watched a friend commit suicide in the most violent way imaginable. He became a bit of a loner searching the Internet for answers and boom found the alt right 6 years ago. When I first met him he made no mention if it and then someone outed him at a gathering,. I think sometimes he wakes up down, angry, depressed and goes searching and finds the wrong answers. His living situation isn't 5oo great either as he lives with a older uncle who is depressed, paranoid and a bit of a loner himself.
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 14, 2019 Author Posted July 14, 2019 I know it is early doors but what are his views on mixed race kids? Well this is where it gets interesting, when we first met last year he didnt believe in races mixing but now talks about marriage, moving in together and seems to adore all kids
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 14, 2019 Author Posted July 14, 2019 Dark I would follow your gut feelings. If you are uncomfortable about his views now, you will only grow more so later. People do not often change views as they get older, only believe more. (Unless they have a major life event that pivots them) I am Asian and was with a white bf for 15 years. He had a very sheltered life in a rural area with not very much diversity. He was very accepting of me at first which was why I liked him. But over time as he got more comfortable, the novelty wore off and he became critical of me and our differences. These attitudes were little things and built up over time so they crept in and did untold damage to my self esteem. I am strong woman in many ways, but this feeling of not being enough and made to feel bad for being different, did affect me a lot. I am working through it now and am doing ok. I don’t think he did theses things on purpose or maliciously, but his beliefs drive him just like anybody else and so they showed up in subtle and unconscious ways. My problem was that I did not pick up on the signs and leave earlier. Don’t make my mistake. You deserve someone who is consciously aware of their own prejudice and who is open to being challenged on them, just like you should be able to be challenged on yours. Thank you for posting your question it is helping me process my own questions on this subject. I had a Chinese friend who dated a white guy and early on he used a racial slur on her and slapped her. She was so psychologically broken she married him and went on to have a baby for him. The friendship ended ended soon after the racial incident as I couldn't be around them both and he knew early on I didn't like him,
littleblackheart Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 I have an idea about what's caused his prejudices. Definitely a lack of education and the world at large. How old are you both? He sounds conflicted between his views and his actions (ie dating you), and he also sounds like he could do with changing his living situation (living with an old, depressed uncle doesn't sound ideal, tbh). I can see why you are confused; he is sending you very mixed messages. I guess it comes down to how easy it is for you to compartmentalise things, and how you can reconcile your own values with his views. Since he was called out publicly by a friend, he's not closeted so he is known as an alt-right sympathiser - can you deal with that? Do you think you can take on trying to un-brainwash him through talking to him? Since it's still relatively early days still, maybe you could give it a little time and lots of discussions to listen to his worldview and see how they sit with yours? Then you will know for sure whether you are the 'outlier' in his thought process and you are in fact cementing his alt-right views by giving him social acknowledgement - by dating him, you as a Black woman are validating his views as being ok in his eyes because you are accepting him in spite of them - or whether he is actually capable of changing his views.
schlumpy Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 H.P Lovecraft was racist and anti-semitic, but the love of his life was Jewish. Thank you Atwood. I didn't know that about Lovecraft. The next time I'm deep in the stygian darkness I'll see if I can find traces of his thoughts about these subjects. 1
schlumpy Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 "Taking people as individuals" is a life philosophy that I try to uphold so I certainly understand the concept. I have to say for the most part it has served me well. I don't see it mixing well with "white supremacy" viewpoints though. It would certainly cause a huge internal struggle within my person. So you are out of the attraction stage now and into a more realistic look at the person you are in love with? It's too bad this part of his character wasn't a deal breaker for you in the beginning but none of us can help who we find attractive and fall in love with. So what do you do now? There are two viable roads in front of you. You can accept him as he is and hope that you can modify his views in the future and not make this a centerpiece of your relationship. I would think that if he were to marry you that becoming a card carrying member of any white supremacy group would be quite difficult when they met his wife. So this interest or belief on his part may never bare fruit but always stay in the background as chatter among certain friends. I've been with many people over the years that have had viewpoints that I very much disagreed with. A couple of those disagreements were with my wife but we are still together. So I don't necessarily see this as a deal breaker unless you want to be. Your second choice is to end the relationship and tell him exactly why. Don't demand he change his views because he will either hide it or resent you for it. This will be very hard, for you would not have hung on this long if you didn't have the feelings and belief that there was something there to make a life out of. At the moment it would be a waste to tell you that time and distance will change your perspective on this relationship but it will. Best Wishes
alphamale Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 I had a Chinese friend who dated a white guy and early on he used a racial slur on her and slapped her. She was so psychologically broken she married him and went on to have a baby for him. The friendship ended ended soon after the racial incident as I couldn't be around them both and he knew early on I didn't like him, are they still married Daa??
Springsummer Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 I have an idea about what's caused his prejudices. Definitely a lack of education and the world at large. His parents custody issues had a deep impact on him and his father pretty much lost any money he had. Mum was heavily into booze when he was a kid (she was also abused as a child), watched a friend commit suicide in the most violent way imaginable. He became a bit of a loner searching the Internet for answers and boom found the alt right 6 years ago. When I first met him he made no mention if it and then someone outed him at a gathering,. I think sometimes he wakes up down, angry, depressed and goes searching and finds the wrong answers. His living situation isn't 5oo great either as he lives with a older uncle who is depressed, paranoid and a bit of a loner himself. His ideologies/white supremacist is the only way to make him feel valuable if not superior. Being with someone he feels inferiors...some people have saviors complex?
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 are they still married Daa?? I drafted a response which was lost. The short of it is I have no idea as I lost contact with her. I do know there were huge problems afterwards.
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 His ideologies/white supremacist is the only way to make him feel valuable if not superior. Being with someone he feels inferiors...some people have saviors complex? I don't quite think it's a saviours complex thing as he's happily let me take control/be the dominant one on many occasions.
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 Unfortunately if he does take his stuff seriously and there must be something in it or he wouldn't be watching the crap , then he probably fights with himself a lot underneath about being with you , damn strange that he even is considering. On the other hand , maybe with meeting you he doesn't feel that way anymore and discovered he was all wrong. lf you still like him or love him , just from the perspective of being 100% sure first before throwing it away , you need to get into his head properly about all this , talk about it all and find out 100% where he truly stands and thinks on you guys and if his stuff has changed now because of you, maybe he's remorseful maybe his ideals have totally swung about now and see's how wrong he was and bla bla. But l mean if nothing else has changed then yeah , not good. I wrote him a pretty long email (or essay ) about the problems with his ideologies. It's up to him whether or not he gets into a discourse with me.I do know for sure it's not his family members as they're lovely. It's all the internet.
Author Darkavengingangel Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 How old are you both? He sounds conflicted between his views and his actions (ie dating you), and he also sounds like he could do with changing his living situation (living with an old, depressed uncle doesn't sound ideal, tbh). I can see why you are confused; he is sending you very mixed messages. I guess it comes down to how easy it is for you to compartmentalise things, and how you can reconcile your own values with his views. Since he was called out publicly by a friend, he's not closeted so he is known as an alt-right sympathiser - can you deal with that? Do you think you can take on trying to un-brainwash him through talking to him? Since it's still relatively early days still, maybe you could give it a little time and lots of discussions to listen to his worldview and see how they sit with yours? Then you will know for sure whether you are the 'outlier' in his thought process and you are in fact cementing his alt-right views by giving him social acknowledgement - by dating him, you as a Black woman are validating his views as being ok in his eyes because you are accepting him in spite of them - or whether he is actually capable of changing his views. I'm 38 and he is 30. He wasn't called out publicly as much as they were having an argument which got heated and then the friend said something along the lines of "I remember when you said ....." and he looked angry that I now knew.
littleblackheart Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 It's difficult to know what to advise you. It's possible he 'sees the light' by simply being in a relationship with you and changing his living conditions. For me personally, that's too many 'ifs'. These kinds of views do not align with my own values so it would be a hard pass. But I'm not you and I'm not the one in a relationship with him! Think it through I guess, is the only thing left to say.
chillii Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 I'm 38 and he is 30. He wasn't called out publicly as much as they were having an argument which got heated and then the friend said something along the lines of "I remember when you said ....." and he looked angry that I now knew. Add the rest to the age difference , 30s pretty young at you being 38. There'll be crap right there later alone , l don't care what anyone says it will bite later and it kind of even is now already. ln that he doesn't even know who he is yet or in what he really thinks and feels about all that stuff. l'd get out of it l was you , this crap won't go away if anything it'll probably only become even more conflicted.
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