Nervous

July 5, 2019

Hi Hopefulwife, I just want to say that you should be an inspiration to everyone on this forum, single, married, committed, cheating, cheated on, confused, whatever. You are proving it's possible to love someone very much while still recognizing that your self-respect and wellbeing have to come first.

I do expect remorse, regret, and behavior that SHOWS this is where he wants a to be. Throwing nice cars, vacations, homes at me does not show any of that. At this stage I really don’t give a rip about finances ( not that I want to be irresponsible) but I’m willing to take a financial hit for a time to have some peace of mind and live authentically. I need peace. I will have it and I believe I am on the path towards that regardless of the outcome of all of this. I believe I’ve been so focused on a certain outcome at my own expense, no more. When I finally made that decision (not to be focused on a certain outcome) a peace washed over me that I haven’t had in years. Does that mean it will be easy from here on out, not at all but I know I will be ok no matter what. I am the one that has to look at myself in the mirror and be ok with who I see there, and today I am ok.

The maturity and wisdom in this paragraph is legitimately moving. I have no doubt you're going to be stronger and better for all this, no matter what happens with your husband. Best of luck to you.

July 5, 2019

lana-banana, thank you for reading and taking time to respond. I believe everyone has their limit. It’s different for everyone but I feel I have reached mine. There is a delicate balance in forgiveness and enabling. I need to do what is best for my healing so that I can be a better stronger person for myself and my children. I can’t even think about H in the equation at this moment. I’ve been far to focused on him for far too long, what he’s doing, what he’s feeling, what he’s thinking, our future. I just have to stop and give my mind body and soul a rest from that part of life and refocus on all the other aspects of life. Thank you for your kind words they mean more than you can imagine.

July 5, 2019

I can’t do this and I have asked my husband to move in with his parents while I continue the hard work on myself and re-evaluate the marriage when I am more healed and stronger (I did not give any timeline of when that may be) He was very taken back and is currently upstairs gathering some things to take over there. I hate what this will do to my children but they need healthy parents. I’m just going to take things a day at a time right now and go from there but I already feel as if a gigantic burden has been taken off of my shoulders.

At least for now, sounds like a sensible approach. Please keep us posted, I'm pulling for you to find a way forward that works on all levels. Best wishes...

Mr. Lucky

July 5, 2019

Thank you Mr Lucky, the kids didn’t take it so well but didn’t seem shocked by it either. H wanted me to speak to his parents but I told him he can handle that himself, I’m not up for it today. I sent his parents a text and told them I would come by once the kids and I return. They said they understood. The kids and I decided to head to the coast in the morning to visit family for a long weekend before sports start back up and schedules get busy. Plus it give H some time to get the rest of his things without the kids and I there. It will be a nice break for all of us.

July 5, 2019

I think you should spend less time trying to figure out your husband. He appears to be in a wait state for his next affair. He is not engaged in the marriage, and he's not even trying to fake it. For whatever reason - this guy views you as powerless. I wouldn't waste any more energy on him.

Forget about the affair because it's just distracting you from the real issues here.

Focus on this one question: "Do I even WANT to be in this marriage?" Don't give me an answer based on hopes and wishes, or yesterdays dreams. Take a hard look at the man you are considering and be honest - are you better off alone?

Alone and Lonely are two very different things. Alone is a place where you may have dignity, control, and personal power over your life. Lonely is chasing a person who isn't present, an ideal that has no foundation in the reality of who they are and how they behave. To be alone is to be in a safe but quiet space, and to be lonely is to feel unsafe and in pain.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Turning point

July 6, 2019

Good morning Buffer, I appreciate you taking the time to read my story and your response. I believe in H mind he feels I have labeled myself as victim and himself as villain and that is how it will always be. That all the responsibility of marital problems fall on his shoulders.

While the affair is 100% on him I have accepted my part in marriage getting to a place when an affair was considered an option for him. Again not excusing his affair at all he has to own that all on his own. He feels I will bring it up and use it every time there is a bump in the road. I have not done this, if there is a disagreement about house hold chores then that’s all it is. I don’t throw the affairs in his face to have my way. Now if he comes home late and we have a disagreement does the affair come up, absolutely. When he exhibits behavior that was similar during his affairs it is relevant (in my opinion)

I don’t expect him to kiss my rear end the rest of our lives due to this. I do expect remorse, regret, and behavior that SHOWS this is where he wants a to be. Throwing nice cars, vacations, homes at me does not show any of that. At this stage I really don’t give a rip about finances ( not that I want to be irresponsible) but I’m willing to take a financial hit for a time to have some peace of mind and live authentically. I need peace. I will have it and I believe I am on the path towards that regardless of the outcome of all of this. I believe I’ve been so focused on a certain outcome at my own expense, no more. When I finally made that decision (not to be focused on a certain outcome) a peace washed over me that I haven’t had in years. Does that mean it will be easy from here on out, not at all but I know I will be ok no matter what. I am the one that has to look at myself in the mirror and be ok with who I see there, and today I am ok.

Morning young lady,

You have you head on straight! I really believe everything you say in your comment; with the exception for one bit.

He should be kissing your rear end! He needs to make you trust him again. He should be keeping you updated if he is going to be late, delayed etc. Not explaining when he gets home, then telling you what has been going on.

I am always in favour for reconciliation, if both parties are fully onboard. He doesn’t get grief time. He only get making up to you and the children.

How will he handle the times you trigger on a song, words, event, or a action on his part. He has to comfort, reassure you that you are his love. Not the AP. He needs to apologise for your hurt feeling as they are caused by his selfish previous actions. It isn’t a one off apology that covers all future triggers.

He should look you in the eyes and genuinely reassure you with his words and loving actions. This isn’t a sign of weekness but his commitment to you.

July 6, 2019

Turning Point, that is my plan - to focus on myself and my hearing from this point on. I don’t want the marriage we’ve had the last 6 years and I certainly don’t want the marriage that led to this mess. I want a healthy marriage, unfortunately I don’t know it’s possible to have that with him.

July 6, 2019

Good morning Buffer, thank you for your encouraging words. I suppose I need to clarify my comment about kissing my rear end, I don’t believe it’s something he should have to do until his dying breath. If M happens to work out his A and this place aren’t somewhere I want to stay. I want to move beyond in a respectful and trusting M. I just don’t believe (in his current state) that reconciliation is possible.

He does need to be a loving and supportive partner and he just isn’t capable of that right now. That’s why I feel we need time apart. I think it’s best for everyone at this time.

Triggers are hard and the last year he has been supportive when they happen for the most part. The hardest ones are the triggers that are caused directly by him - like running late, being unusually quiet, being distant.oh well we shall see what the future holds. As I said before I am not focused on a certain outcome any longer other than healing myself.

July 6, 2019

S2B you are absolutely correct, I don’t know my H any longer. He has evolved into a man I no longer recognize. I believe there are many parts of him that he keeps hidden from me (not including his A’s) one of his favorite and most repeated lies was he was the same man at home as he was away from home....ummm BS - I doubt you’d be bringing your AP to your wife and children. I believe the biggest lies he tells are the ones he tells himself. Until he gets honest with himself he is not someone I can be in a relationship with.

I do feel that by trying to work through this mess the last several years he’s viewed me as some desperate person who will tolerate anything. Not seeing me as a wife and friend who loves him and has forgiven him despite all the hurt. I read something the other day that said an apology without changed behavior is just manipulation, that is so very true.

He has moved in with his parents. They live close so he will still see the kids as often as he wants (he can set all that up, I won’t arrange that for him) I told him if he wanted M then he would work on himself and SHOW that he is a safe partner for me and if not that’s fine too he can live a life that makes him happy. Going to move forward and work on myself with or without him either way I know I will be fine. He was shocked but that’s not my problem.

July 6, 2019

Good morning Buffer, thank you for your encouraging words. I suppose I need to clarify my comment about kissing my rear end, I don’t believe it’s something he should have to do until his dying breath...

He does need to be a loving and supportive partner and he just isn’t capable of that right now. That’s why I feel we need time apart. I think it’s best for everyone at this time.

Triggers are hard and the last year he has been supportive when they happen for the most part. The hardest ones are the triggers that are caused directly by him - like running late, being unusually quiet, being distant.oh well we shall see what the future holds. As I said before I am not focused on a certain outcome any longer other than healing myself.

Cool

I must have misinterpreted what was being said. I was on the tangent that he wasn’t being supportive for you, your triggers and children.

But he does need to step up more.

To do this, the A has to end, be over, NC etc. If his head is in one place and his heart another, then he cannot do what is required. As long as there is no rug sweeping, open communication boundaries maintained, IC for him and you, then possibly MC if you decide he can re enter your inner life.

Life is yours embrace it!

July 6, 2019

I've learned a lesson here that I should allow the poster to develop their story a bit more before jumping in.

When read your first post I really didn't think your marriage was salvageable. It was damn obvious that all the effort was coming from you, the betrayed, and little effort, unless it was open a check book, was coming from your husband. I read in your words that he was seeking love outside your marriage and not with you.

Infidelity is a deal breaker for me but, I've learned to accept that other people do not view sex with others outside of their marriage as an absolute marriage terminator. It depends on each individuals feelings and perceptions. It seems many people are able to get past it. I am not one them but it looked like you were.

I advised for you to protect yourself financially. You talked about a post-nup so I let it go as it seemed to me you had squared up against future adversity.

Now, I look in and find you are kicking him out, thinking about a future without him (although I haven't heard you mention a lawyer) and your thoughts have turned from reconciliation to just focusing on yourself.

I don't disagree with your turn around. It is certainly what you should have been thinking from day one. His journal should have done it for you.

I am curious though why the 180 on your thought process? This is not his first affair. You must have worked your way through the emotional script of the betrayed spouse at least once before. Once is usually enough to allow the BS to jump right to where they need to be without all the heart rending emotional steps that every newly BS goes through.

Is it that you believe he was in love with his last affair partner and they planned on running off over the rainbow that has allowed you to cross a line you did not in the past?

For your thoughts to turn around so suddenly has me concerned that you may betray yourself at some point in the near future.

Best Wishes

Edited July 6, 2019 by schlumpy

July 6, 2019

For your thoughts to turn around so suddenly has me concerned that you may betray yourself at some point in the near future.

I could be wrong but I think the OP was in her own little bubble of "saving the marriage at all costs." Playing the "pick me" dance, and apparently losing and being miserable.

Here she got a new perspective.

It is not uncommon really, many BSs do the same, they want to stay married but the reality of swallowing the affair or multiple affairs and carrying on regardless is too much eventually.

Trust is gone and without trust many relationships ultimately cannot survive. "Policing" a spouse forever is not something many want to do. Triggers are disabling and can ruin days, weeks, months.

The "peace" of blind faith, blind trust, monogamous love everlasting, safety and security is gone. The WS could potentially cheat or even leave at any moment... Mental health suffers...

July 6, 2019

Hi again Buffer, He is supportive in his own way ( I feel like at times it has been genuine and others he is exasperated and thinking “this again”) He has never said that it is just my interpretation of what I see.

I believe his head is in one place and his heart another just as you said. I think when I first learned of the A’s I rig swept and rug swept and swept some more desperately trying to put my life back together. Those were my mistakes and what helped drag this on for so long ultimately leading us to where we are today.

July 6, 2019

schlumpy, I always had the belief that infidelity was a done deal for me too, until it happened. I was so unprepared and never saw it coming. I think I have been in emergency fix this mode for 4+ years. I didn’t want to lose all we had built and split our family apart. If it was salvageable I wanted to reconcile.

I have played detective for a long long long time. At this point I think I could make an excellent living as a private investigator. I don’t want to police my H for the rest of my life and I shouldn’t have to. I was already leaning in the direction if needed space before I posted here but I suppose I was “on the fence” The more I thought about it the clearer it became I needed time apart. I have an attorney, I’m sorry I didn’t clarify that earlier. I retained one last year when he left initially and I had separation papers drawn up. Everything is covered in there so we are going by that at this time ( for alimony/child support/custody/visitation)

I suppose my thoughts haven’t turned suddenly, I haven’t felt secure in this M for a long time but fear has kept me stuck. I am no longer fearful of a future apart from him. I suppose I just had to get there in my own time. I need peace more than I need a husband.

July 6, 2019

elaine567, you aren’t wrong. I was in my bubble playing the pick me dance for a long long time.

I’m tired and that isn’t a life or the life for me. I did get a new perspective here but it certainly isn’t what made me make the decision to ask H to leave. I think everyone just gets to a place where it’s “enough” it just took me longer than some to get there.

July 7, 2019

Hi Hopeful, I'm just catching your thread and I see you have asked for a trial separation. I think you're doing the right thing. How can you heal a marriage with someone whose heart isn't in it? You can only concentrate on healing yourself.

My husband's affair was 6 months long (and it was long distance, so the PA was only over one trip), so it was much shorter than your husband's. DDay was over 4 years ago and we are doing very well now, but I will say that reconciliation is hard enough when you have a fully remorseful and committed spouse. A person who says things about you holding the affair over him forever is not full of remorse or empathy. If he really thought about what it must feel like to be you he would be overwhelmed by how terrible everything he has done has been.

When you were talking about his grief for the relationship with OW, it reminded that my husband did go through this. He complained to me how hard it was losing someone he had grown so close to. I am an empathetic person, but I also knew that this was a time for boundaries. No one could possibly expect me to be the person to help him with that. So I told his best friend that he was struggling with it and his best friend reluctantly agreed to talk to him, even though he was dealing himself with disappointment and disgust. But lo and behold, when he was talking to someone that he didn't feel was lucky to still be married to him, he didn't want to talk about it anymore. Of course your husband will grieve the relationship but he's being a jerk if he thinks you should care.

It jumped out to me in your story how when you asked for divorce, suddenly he wanted you. When OW broke up with him because of whatever he did to ruin the situation, he wanted her. This is Psychology 101; in the end he felt rejected by her. He may well have been more invested in your marriage if he'd felt he was the one to choose. Instead he feels powerless, poor lamb. He should imagine how you feel!

In any event, here you are taking back your power. I applaud you and send you hugs and high fives. I don't know what the future will bring for you, but I'm glad that you got the point where losing the marriage is an option. Otherwise you will be clinging to it like grim death and he will be the poor victim trapped in a life that many would only envy. Taking a step back and evaluating things without needing for them to work out is the way to go.

July 7, 2019

It is not uncommon really, many BSs do the same, they want to stay married but the reality of swallowing the affair or multiple affairs and carrying on regardless is too much eventually.
Trust is gone and without trust many relationships ultimately cannot survive. "Policing" a spouse forever is not something many want to do. Triggers are disabling and can ruin days, weeks, months.
The "peace" of blind faith, blind trust, monogamous love everlasting, safety and security is gone. The WS could potentially cheat or even leave at any moment... Mental health suffers...

I cannot disagree with what you posted but usually that turn-around is over a period weeks if not months and that is with first time betrayals. I don't think this is Hope's first rodeo and that's my sticking point.

BTW, I enjoy reading your incisive comments and I like your colorful avatar. It's very cheerful.

July 7, 2019

Hopeful Wife I have been reading on this forum for roughly a year (this is a great forum) but have never felt the urge/need to register until I read your story. Just a brief background, I am on my second marriage. First was at the age of 22, learned after 6 months H was cheating and had been since before we were married. I cut my loses and left (best decision I ever made) there were no kids and no shares assets so not much of a loss if you ask me. I married my current H at the age of 27 and things have been and are wonderful.

Now to my purpose of registering and feeling the need to post. Your situation is eerily similar to my sister. She has been married just over 20 years, 2 kids, she stays home, husband travels. Big house, expensive cars, lavish vacations and a cheating husband. BTW I have encouraged her to read this thread. She found out about her H’s affairs several years ago. Some of his have been long term affairs and some have been hookups while he is traveling for work. I don’t believe his long terms lasted more than a year but who really knows. I was with her when she learned of the numerous hook ups, we found his “secrecy email account” and after many attempts figured out his password. He had ads on Craigslist, an account on Ashley Madison, tinder you name it and he had it. So we are there reading through the email exchanges of his many hookups (some were couples, some were men, and numerous women. My sister calls to confront him and guess what happened. The screen goes blank because he’s logged in and changed the password. Then when he returns home he minimizes what we read, “he never followed through” they were just email exchanges and he never met anyone...I know what I read and he absolutely met with and had sex with those people including the man (although that seemed to be oral but does that matter) Anyway they went to MC he was remorseful blah blah blah then she catches him AGAIN, long term affair “he’s in love this time” my sister is devastated because of all they’d already been through and she forgave moved on just to have him do it all over again. So went to MC again forgave moved on and about a month ago we are leaving the pool and there is an envelope on the windshield of her vehicle with a handwritten note that I’m a nutshell said they suspected her husband was having an inappropriate relationship with another woman (this person said they’d seen him more than once with the same woman) anyway said they were sorry to be the one to inform but felt she should know. My sister confronts H and has the nerve to say it was probably the last OW he was in an affair with and she’s angry they “broke up” so my sister buys this load of bull and goes about her merry way as if all is well. I believe there are situations where a former AP would do something like this however I don’t think that’s the case here, the letter was kind and apologetic. They knew her car, where she’d be etc. I think a jealous lover would have had more to say than just facts and an apology for being the one to tell but I could be wrong.

I wish my sister would have your strength, resolve, and self worth to consider other options aside from saving the marriage at all costs. She has the appearance of being ok but I’ve seen her cry, seen her slowly turn into a shell of what she once was due to his constant cheating and them rug sweeping and moving on. Her H is a complete ass. He changes jobs more than I change underwear, he also travels constantly for work and make a huge salary. He works out all the time and cares about his appearance more than most beauty queens. I play nice but he disgusts me. I think my sister thinks she can’t do better and has become accustomed to the life he’s provided. It’s very sad but it is her life and I try to be supportive of her. It is just so hard to watch this behavior. I think if she could remove herself from this just for a period of time she’s realize how sick and unhealthy it is for her and her kids. Anyway kudos to you hopeful wife for standing up for YOU and doing what is best for YOU!! It’s a inspiration and I am going to be following to see how things progress. Good luck to you!

July 10, 2019

Heartwhole2: thank you for the encouragement. I feel I’ve made the best decision. Kids and I just returned from a long weekend away. H has moved some of his things to his parents and he is currently out of town for work. He and I haven’t talked much since I left but I’m sure he will be coming to see the kids when he returns. I just need space so I will try for as little contact as possible (only communicate regarding the kids) I feel that’s what I need to work on my own healing.

Sister2020: it sounds like you made the best decision for yourself ending your first M. As far as your sister, wow what a truly terrible situation. He sounds like a serial cheater. It’s complicated when kids, finances, and many years are involved. As far as the letter on your sisters vehicle, it’s hard to say who put it there but usually where there is smoke there’s a fire. Maybe your sister is just not ready to face the reality of who/what her H and M have become. It’s a scary place. Only she can make those decisions. I know some like myself take longer to get there than others and some live that way the rest of their lives. It’s an expensive price to pay, I know my emotional and physical health have suffered from staying in this place too long. My weight is down to an unhealthy level, I have hormone problems, thyroid problems, insomnia, hair loss, and other issues. My doctor said they are all directly related to the stresses of life. Just be there for her and love on her when she allows it. Encourage her to have a good counselor.

July 16, 2019

Hello OP and I'm sorry you are in this situation. I'll be honest though, the way you express yourself and things you are going through create an atmosphere of misery in my eyes. I'm really sorry to say this, but you seem like a woman who has no self respect and no self confidence. I understand you love him and you want your kids to grow up with their father, but Jesus, what ELSE does this man have to do to you to make you realise you don't deserve this behavior? You remind me of those poor women in eastern countries whose housbands treat them badly but they have to tolerate it. You deserve better than that and I'm sorry to say but your H also deserves better than that. Also, what example do you give your kids who are teenagers and understand everything? That it's OK to stay in an unhappy life just to show the world you are married and "happy"? That it's OK to tolerate disrespect from your spouse just in order to have someone to sleep with and share expenses with? Do you really value yourself that little and you have condemned yourself to a life of mediocre? Do you really believe that your H one day will realise "omg, what have I done, I have the best W in the world, let me forget about the woman I truly love and for whom I left my marriage and kids and show my W how much I love her"? Even if this happens, will you be satisfied with being second choice for ever?

I am not a person who will throw out divorce easily because I don't believe a person can be faithful throughout their life, I can forgive a fling of my H if it ever happens and I recognise it's nothing that could never happen even to me. BUT I think the best thing for you to do now is a) find a new therapist who will actually care for her/his patient's well being rather than keep telling you "you need to be patient" so she gets more money from you and your H, b) go to a lawyer to find out how you could split the money and everything you own and c) most importantly, start working on yourself to the way of understanding why you use "love" as an excuse to put yourself in a position to be second and not first choice. Give yourself some time to figure these things out and move on with your life, maybe in the future finding a person who actually wants to be with you and not give you the residues of a lost love.

(I'm sorry, english is not my first language)

July 18, 2019

OP, how old are the kids? Considering you guys have been married 22 years they should almost be grown by now. Maybe you had them late. I'm just curious.

July 18, 2019

Give yourself some time to figure these things out and move on with your life, maybe in the future finding a person who actually wants to be with you and not give you the residues of a lost love.

It’s a different journey for each BS, and everyone moves at their own speed. You also underestimate the challenges for some and the baseline of love, devotion and commitment from which they start. With kids involved, even more complicated.

The OP has stayed to this point because she wanted to, no lack of self-respect involved. And she’s moving towards leaving the marriage now for the same reasons, it’s because she’s come to feel it’s the right thing.

I’m not sure some of your labels apply...

Mr. Lucky

Edited July 18, 2019 by Mr. Lucky

July 21, 2019

Good morning all, I apologize I have been MIA for several days...lots going on. I have been on several job interviews and I believe I will have a nursing job working about 30hrs a week (that will allow me the flexibility to still perform my mom duties ) The kids and I also took a short trip away which was much needed. I feel much more at peace these days with H and I being separated.

SummerDreams, I can assure you I have self respect. H and I are separated. I don't tolerate bad behavior. That being said when you take a vow and have been together many years, have children, shared finances and history it isn't easily thrown in the garbage. I have struggled with making a decision (forgive and reconcile the M or forgive and move toward D) There are many factors that go into making such a decision and not one I take lightly. Whatever may happen I want to be at peace with my decisions, my behaviour, my wellbeing in all of this. I am showing my children you don't just give up on those you love but you also don't tolerate repeated patterns of bad behavior ( which is why I chose to separate) Everyone's situation is different, everyone has to make the decisions they can live with. I hope you never have to walk in these shoes but if you ever do find yourself in a place such as this I believe you will see not everything is so black and white..

If you have read through the previous posts you will see I have been to a lawyer (many times) and have separation papers previous with alimony, child support, and how to divide expenses above and beyond for the kids, etc. That is all taken care of. I am seeing a new counsler and I believe that is helping.

Stillafool, My childern are 10, 12, and 14

MrLucky, thank you for your input! As someone who has been in these shoes you understand all the dynamics that go into making decisions regarding the M. It has nothing to do with lack of self confidence or lack of self respect and everything to do with the challenges you mentioned in your post! Great input!

July 22, 2019

Very positive update, HopefulWife! I think you are teaching your kids great lessons about self-respect and about forgiveness, which comes from a place of strength. I wish you well on your journey to figure out next steps, but I'm glad you have support and peace during this time. Hugs!

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