Nervous

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you for your reply Prudence V : I have often wondered if his plan is to just go once the kids are at a certain age. I understand as much as I'd like to flip a switch in his mind and heart I cannot control his actions/thoughts nor the outcome of this situation we have found ourselves in.

 

As I said previously some of his affections for me have returned and I see a little more each day. At this point I am taking it a day at a time. I have days when I sit and think I cannot believe this is my life and that this happened/is happening to us. Prior to learning of his affairs I would have never thought he was capable of that behavior.

 

When I asked him to leave last year (when I found/read the journal) I believe it shocked him. He admits he never thought I'd ask him to go. I believe being apart and it not being his decision this time made him reflect on what he was about to lose - his relationship with me, knowing his relationship with his children would be impacted, the disappointment of family/friends. He has always believed in God and attended church regularly and I know that his affair and his core beliefs are in constant conflict. I know this all came crashing down on him at the end of the year and has a lot to do with him begging to come home and make things work. Holidays were wonderful, then slowly the state of things came creeping back in and now we are struggling to find our way back to a loving and passionate relationship.

 

As far as him waiting on the kids to be older and get a divorce so he can attempt another relationship with the latest AP. I think she will have moved on by then if she has not already. Part of H depressed mood is due to believing he ruined the relationship and she will move on without him. He said he no longer sees her as a life option. I have asked him many times what happened between them that he "ruined" the relationship and he won't discuss it. I asked her as well and she told me I needed to get that answer from him. There was nothing in the journals I read that specifically said what happened other than he ruined everything.

[Hopefulwife]

Maddie82, thank your for your reply. You are right he actively sought out another relationship. H and I have discussed this at length. H says he was looking to fill voids in marriage (he admits this was wrong and should have never happened) but says he never intended on falling in love with another person pr ending our marriage. The prior affair (lasted a little over a year) was sex and not much more than that. She was married as well and he said it just came to a point where they decided to stop. He met the next affair partner about 6 months later and that is the one that lasted a little over 4 years. He said if anyone ever mentions to him they are considering an affair he would do his best to talk them out of it, that the consequences of it all are not worth it. He did admit if someone had done that with him he would have likely done it anyway just believing that he could manage it - naive thinking for sure.

[elaine567]

If you want a man to provide, help bring up the kids and be a "husband", you got him.

If you want a man to love you and stay true to you, then IMO you don't have that.

 

I guess, she got fed up being the OW, she wanted him to leave totally and for good, he couldn't do that because of his kids. They ended.

He panicked, he could not lose his kids having given up so much, so he anchored them to the spot by buying a house and decided he was "all in" with the family, but that was a knee jerk reaction.

Now he has to live with that...

[Hopefulwife]

Maddie82 you are right he will never be that man again. I have been grieving the loss of that man for the last 4 years.

[Hopefulwife]

Elaine567 thank you for your reply. I believe you are exactly right in everything you said. I have the "husband" that will provide and be a dad and maybe a little more at times and that is it. Initially I did not believe it was a "knee jerk" reaction deciding to reconcile but as time passes that is what it appears has happened. That and him stating he ruined their relationship, so I am option B. Great for the self esteem. He says thats not the case but I can look at this and see it.

 

She likely was fed up, he told me she never asked him to leave or put any pressure on him to do so but I know he felt she wouldn't stick around if he didn't. I mean what person would... I am not saying that somehow makes her a decent person, she had an affair with a married man for 4 years she has some serious issues of her own just based on that alone.

[DKT3]

I dont want to give you false hope, but I tell the women here having affairs with married men here all the time that these men stay because it's where they want to be.

 

I get the impression that you believe she ended the affair, and maybe on the surface she did. Yet he was presented with circumstances to continue his relationship with her and he was unable or unwilling to meet her expectations and after four years she said enough.

 

What I'm saying in a roundabout way is he made his choice and it was to stay married to you.

 

Thing is, you've made it easy on him and have allowed him to coast. Why?

 

You dont have to be his doormat, I read that you fear maintaining your lifestyle, you should not. Contacting an attorney will ease those fears because he will have to maintain your lifestyle for a period of time while you transition.

 

Love isn't enough, he will slowly destroy you and this rate.

 

On a side note, taking strong actions will force his hand, if he wants to save the marriage he need to be the one working on it.

 

Lastly, I can identify with you feeling responsible. I was the same, my wife had an affair. I recognized that I was far from an ideal husband so I gave her another chance. But this doesn't excuse him. It's time for you to move forward and start thinking independent of him, look out for your children and yourself. Get some training or education with the intent to enter the job market.

 

My wife and I have been together since teenager years also, so I understand the codependent nature of this kind of relationship.

[mark clemson]

Mark Clemson, thank you for the information regarding limerence. I read up on that last night and it makes sense. I had a conversation with H about it this morning to get his thoughts and it did not go so well. He said he is tired of others invalidating what he felt/feels. He said if he was not married not one person would call this limerence or invalidate what he feels/felt.

 

 

All the below is just my personal opinion -

 

I think a psychologist/therapist would call it limerence if it fits the criteria, married or no. IMO identifying it doesn't "invalidate" his feelings, it just identifies what is going on from a more scientific perspective (if it's correct). Limerence can be part of a healthy relationship, and I believe some would find it a highly desirable part, although apparently "barriers" tend to intensify it.

 

What invalidates his feelings is the fact that he was married. He tried to move one to a new relationship without ending the marriage. So he had those feelings for, and did those things with, someone he can't really/fully have. If he doesn't feel this is so, why does the OW want nothing to do with him now?

 

Idealizing his affair doesn't help him move on from it or help with your reconciliation. It very much rugsweeps the emotional harm he's done to you. Agree that you are wise to bring this up during your counseling sessions. Hopefully you can get him to recognize this.

[elaine567]

What invalidates his feelings is the fact that he was married. He tried to move one to a new relationship without ending the marriage. So he had those feelings for, and did those things with, someone he can't really/fully have. If he doesn't feel this is so, why does the OW want nothing to do with him now.

 

He clearly stated in his journals he was staying in his marriage out of "obligation" and for his children, so not sure how that invalidates his feelings for the AP.

Plenty people I guess are in relationships due to circumstance, whilst their "love" resides with another...

[Maddie82]

Maddie82 you are right he will never be that man again. I have been grieving the loss of that man for the last 4 years.

 

You deserve better than that.

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you DKT3, you are in no way giving false hope. I appreciate your response. I do believe he is where he wants to be, but likely for the incorrect reasons (comfort, security, children, finances, predictable) not because he can't imagine the thought of losing me or the marriage. I believe he has a very strong attachment the family as a whole (including extended family). I believe he also has an attachment to me as well, for the same reasons I listed above.

 

 

I mean we all know if divorce were to happen, no one will be living in a 500,000 home with nice furnishings anytime soon, no one will be driving the 90,000 vehicle and the nice yearly vacations to luxury resorts to various locations will likely cease to exist, and lets not forget about the padded retirement account. When we were separated previously he made sure the children and myself were impacted as little as possible - lived the same home, had money for trips, could eat out, same vehicle, kids still played travel ball, the only changed part for the kids and I was he was no longer living there. He on the other hand lived quite differently than what he was accustomed to - 2 bedroom rental in a less than nice part of town, little to no furniture and little in the way of dishes, towels, etc. My H likes a nice lifestyle and he has got us all accustom to it, we are not arrogant or spoiled we appreciate what we have and have worked very hard for it.

 

 

I guess I have made it easy for him in a lot of ways out of fear. Fear of being completely dependent on him, fear of being alone in the future, fear of raising my children alone, just a lot of fears. Most being fear of the unknown. That has done nothing but left me insecure and having a lot of resentment towards H. I feel that I have been more assertive since asking him to leave last year and accepting him back. There are stronger boundaries and he is most certainly not off the hook. He has to put in the work and go to MC and IC and be accountable to me (at least for a time) for where he is, have access to electronics, etc.

[Hopefulwife]

Mark Clemson, at times he becomes defensive close minded. I believe it is a difficult place for him to be in, I mean who would want to believe they essentially dropped a nuclear bomb on their life for something that wasn't real and genuine.... I believe this is where the a lot of the struggle for him is rooted. He has to convince himself it was all worth what he and the rest of us are living through.

[Hopefulwife]

Elaine567, you are absolutely correct. I read those entries over and over.

 

 

 

 

After all the replies and responses here I am ready to throw him out, ha! It has been very therapeutic to communicate with all of you! I just have no one in my personal life that I feel I can be completely open with about all of the complex feelings and circumstances. I feel when I am in counseling I am "guided" in a way. Having said that about counseling we did let them know in the beginning that we wanted reconciliation but I need to make sure that I update them and let them know that I want to keep an open mind about MY future and that this marriage may not suit me any longer.

 

 

Maddie82, I do deserve better. Everyone does!!

[Turning point]

I think I would put the infidelity and feelings for the other woman aside for the moment because if the relationship were reconciled these would all be in the past, and continually growing more distant in the rear view mirror.

 

Here's what doesn't shrink in the rear view mirror because it's part of the engine that drives him: he left for 5 months. He not only had a wife, he had 3 children and HE LEFT.

 

There's very little that can shake the fear that comes with the betrayal of abandonment. It doesn't really matter why or for whom he left (and let's be clear - he left for himself) the fact remains that he is capable of walking away from the people who depend on him.

 

If I'm being honest - then I'd say the long term success of your reconciliation does not truly depend on his ability to get over the OM. It depends on your ability to live with the lack of safety you inherited when he demonstrated his willingness to leave.

[Turning point]

.. we did let them know in the beginning that we wanted reconciliation..

 

Yes, counselors ask you what you want and then focus on how to achieve that.

 

You can of course, address one goal in couples therapy and self-explore with individual counseling. You don't owe it to anyone to set aside your personal well being or self discovery while working on the marriage. The two are inextricably intertwined, and self discovery may give you answers and power you lack in the marital therapy.

[Hopefulwife]

Turning point thank you for the reply. I agree on some level that putting the other woman and the affair behind us would be ideal but when I look at the true timeline of the betrayl it's a bit difficult. I initially learned about this most recent affair in late 2014, and was told the affair was over. There were many D days, for various reasons - sometimes gut feeling which led to confrontation and a confession, a text sent to the wrong person, checking emails, phone records, credit card statements etc. It wasn't until I spoke with the other woman that I truly learned the about the timeline of the affair. I was under the impression from H that each D Day led to a break up and time apart for them. What I learned was there was never a break up until he moved back home after being gone for 5 months. It is difficult to put that behind me so soon, I suppose I still have my guard up hoping that this time it is truly over and we are not in false reconciliation, again.

 

 

I think we have a long road ahead of us (especially for myself) to get past the lies and deceit of not 1 but 2 long term affairs that when added together went on for several years ( so roughly since 2012 he has had outside relationships) and to your point the betrayal of abandonment. It is overwhelming at times and very sad. I feel I've invested so much into him and our family. It feels like a waste to throw it away ( I know he is the one that truly did that) I also know if I decide to leave and begin a new relationship with another person there is no guarantee the same thing won't happen.

 

 

I believe right now I need to focus on myself and my own healing and put the marital healing aside for now. It sucks the life out of me and I feel like I am missing out on so much with my children, my family, my friends. I want to wake up and this is not the first thing I think about or the last thing on my mind when I go to bed. We are 2 broken people trying to save a marriage that has been on life support for a long time. I don't feel I contribute much to the happiness of the relationship due to all the betrayal and I need to get myself to a healthier place before we can be healthy together and the same goes for him. I may need time apart to be able to achieve this and will mention it to my counselor. I feel that if we were apart and he was still putting in effort to better himself and show that marriage is what he wants it would make me feel more secure. I know I can ask him to leave and he may very well say forget this and move on to the next person, but at least I would know sooner rather than later. Has anyone ever done that? Separated to heal and then re-evaluate the marriage?

[PinkPampies]

Op, I feel for you, I really do.

 

But what you’re dealing with is a serial cheater. Who’s been unfaithful for half of your married life (that you know about). It can’t possibly feel good to feel like you’re Plan B, and always looking over your shoulder.

 

Obviously, he’s unhappy and his heart is not into it if he’s had 2 affairs. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

I would say there is a very high possibility that he will cheat again at the very least. Or when the kids are grown, he bails and finds another AP. Do you really want to throw half of your life away? Yes, divorce can be difficult and your life won’t be the same. But, what you will have if you divorce is self respect and the chance to build again. Don’t you think you deserve to be with someone who wants only you? Who isn’t setting?

 

Think about it, op. And good luck ?

[Mr. Lucky]

I do at times feel like he wants me to end the marriage ( to take the burden of the decision off his shoulders, cowardly I know) I have verbalized this many times in the last several months, while he understands why I feel/think this way he assures me this is not what he is doing. He said this morning that he would not have bought a new home if that was true.

 

Sorry to tell you, my wife said all the same things - and we bought a house together, a "new start". Spooky, eh?

 

Unfortunately, she also offered little in MC, moped through the entire reconciliation, didn't engage much and rolled over every night and fell asleep. It really seemed as though she rather be almost anyplace else.

 

If your H is putting in the hard yards, you're way ahead of where we were. Regardless, hope you get what you want...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Amethyst68]

Can I ask if your WH ever really recommitted to being with you? To building a new relationship? To be honest what I got from your posts was that you wanted him back at any cost and blackmailed him with taking away his kids (which you have admitted to doing). It was the thought of losing his kids that brought him back not the thought of losing you. Using your children as a bargaining tool is a horrendous thing to do from either a BS or a WS, kids should be kept out of things as much as possible.

 

If that situation has not changed, if he is still the marriage for his kids then you will never reconcile. That's not to say you won't remain married, maybe even peacefully, happy at times but never fully reconciled because will never do the work. It's possible he will cheat again further down the line or choose to leave when the kids are older.

 

BTW you say you keep telling him the kids should be near family but they are near family, it's just not your family.

[Hopefulwife]

Pinkpampies thank you for your response. I do not want to throw my life away on someone who would rather not be here, on someone who does not appear to see my value and my worth.

[Hopefulwife]

Me Lucky, that is spooky. Our situation sounds very similar to yours. A shell of a man the majority of the time. Engaged with the kids and with me at times. We talked about our move as a fresh start for us as well. This home wasn’t tainted by his affair. He never brought her to our home (she confirmed this) but every where I looked in that home I saw memories of arguments, discoveries and him ultimately walking out. Neighbors had their opinions especially when he returned home and this just felt like a new beginning for everyone.

 

It turns out it is just a bigger house with the same problems... I can’t do this and I have asked my husband to move in with his parents while I continue the hard work on myself and re-evaluate the marriage when I am more healed and stronger (I did not give any timeline of when that may be) He was very taken back and is currently upstairs gathering some things to take over there. I hate what this will do to my children but they need healthy parents. I’m just going to take things a day at a time right now and go from there but I already feel as if a gigantic burden has been taken off of my shoulders.

[Hopefulwife]

Amethyst68 H did verbally commit to being together with me and was showing it in action as well especially around the holidays. Then as New Years passed and time went on he became somewhat indifferent. It was like he was running a race and he was sprinting and now he’s a fast walker. He still shows affection but not as much as I’d like. I believe it is possible that initially we had another phase of hysterical bonding which does go away after a period of time.

 

I will admit I did want him back at any cost. I was not going to lose this man I’d built a life with, gone through so much with. I admit threatening to move was selfish of me and not the right thing to do. I regret doing it. The only family we have here are his elderly parents. They are not able to help us in any way, it’s actually the opposite - I take them to doctors appointments, grocery shopping and any other errands they need done. Neither of them can drive. My H is out of town the majority of the week so I am the one doing most of what they need (and I happily do so, I love them very much) My family on the other hand - parents and 2 siblings are very much able to help me with the kids ( I was planning on going back to work full time) and that would impact my ability to care for the kids and take them to activities after school etc. so while I regret the manner I told him what my plan was it wasn’t entirely selfish. H is gone during the week and isn’t available to help, his parents aren’t able to help, and child care is very costly. I have close friends that can help from time to time but I needed solid help and support. Not trying to justify but just explaining my thought process.

 

I have asked H to move out for now and he is currently packing his things to go stay with his parents. I told him we need time apart to heal before we can truly heal the marriage (if that ever happens) I told him I will stay here and not planning on moving and he can come see the kids as often as he likes but I need time apart. It’s too easy to fall back into old habits and patterns while living in the same home. He argued and said we spend the majority of the week apart but I told him I thought this was best for me right now. He said he understands. Just taking it a day at a time right now.

[Buffer]

.....I have asked H to move out for now and he is currently packing his things to go stay with his parents. I told him we need time apart to heal before we can truly heal the marriage (if that ever happens) I told him I will stay here and not planning on moving and he can come see the kids as often as he likes but I need time apart. It’s too easy to fall back into old habits and patterns while living in the same home. He argued and said we spend the majority of the week apart but I told him I thought this was best for me right now. He said he understands. Just taking it a day at a time right now.

 

 

HopfulWife

I am so sorry to read your plight, No one deserves what you and your family have gone through from the actions of your wayward spouse.

To reconcile, I feel he should be undertaking anything and all, to place You first. This is ongoing not just for a short period.

If you feel you need time apart then that is what you do! It is your subconcous telling you.

Set separation boundires regarding dating, contacting AP sleepin with ONS etc. So these are clear and understood upfront.

He sounds like he is imature, wanting you and the family life as well as wanting the AP and what she brings to the plate. NO! bad husband!!, life is not all about him. You have been looking after him and his family as well as raising yours long enough, he has to step up to the plate.

 

 

I am sure you are a wonderful person, loving wife and beutiful mother, it is his Loss regarding His Actions. Of course there will be losses due to the finances of separation and possible devorce, but look at how it is effecting you and your family. You may want him back at any cost, but when are you going to place you and the children first?

 

 

Honestly he should be worshiping the ground you walk on (well just a metaphore) to get back your trust and aceptance. Making it hard for you to think that the separation is waranted.

 

 

Please I have no words of wisdom but all I can send are big (Huge) cyber hugs and hope you are well looked after you are No 1!!

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[pepperbird]

Hi Pepperbird. Thank you taking the time to ready and reply. If you don’t mind me asking how long was your H’s affair? What made him decide to reconcile?

 

 

My situation was really different than yours. It was borne out of mental illness (combat related PTSD), while the affair was incredibly painful for me, it was the tip of the iceberg of the darkness that was in him at the time, most of which he turned inwards on himself. He put in a huge amount of counseling and other work on himself, but it never fully goes away. He's spiraling down again, but at least this time, he sought help right away.

[Hopefulwife]

Good morning Buffer, I appreciate you taking the time to read my story and your response. I believe in H mind he feels I have labeled myself as victim and himself as villain and that is how it will always be. That all the responsibility of marital problems fall on his shoulders.

 

While the affair is 100% on him I have accepted my part in marriage getting to a place when an affair was considered an option for him. Again not excusing his affair at all he has to own that all on his own. He feels I will bring it up and use it every time there is a bump in the road. I have not done this, if there is a disagreement about house hold chores then that’s all it is. I don’t throw the affairs in his face to have my way. Now if he comes home late and we have a disagreement does the affair come up, absolutely. When he exhibits behavior that was similar during his affairs it is relevant (in my opinion)

 

I don’t expect him to kiss my rear end the rest of our lives due to this. I do expect remorse, regret, and behavior that SHOWS this is where he wants a to be. Throwing nice cars, vacations, homes at me does not show any of that. At this stage I really don’t give a rip about finances ( not that I want to be irresponsible) but I’m willing to take a financial hit for a time to have some peace of mind and live authentically. I need peace. I will have it and I believe I am on the path towards that regardless of the outcome of all of this. I believe I’ve been so focused on a certain outcome at my own expense, no more. When I finally made that decision (not to be focused on a certain outcome) a peace washed over me that I haven’t had in years. Does that mean it will be easy from here on out, not at all but I know I will be ok no matter what. I am the one that has to look at myself in the mirror and be ok with who I see there, and today I am ok.

[Hopefulwife]

Good morning Pepperbird, thank you for your reply. That sounds like a difficult situation. I am glad to hear your husband sought out help right away. I hope things work out for you and that you are taking care of yourself. Thank you for sharing your story. I suppose we all have our own stories of why we are here, the circumstances are different but the feelings are similar.