Doesn't Offer to Split Check

June 17, 2019

All I’m saying is that this is dating. People can have their weird preferences and whatever. It’s not an equal opportunity situation.

There's 'weird' and there's plain rude.

Not offering to pay is rude and inconsiderate. Showing yourself up to be entitled user is not a great look; it's not because you can do whatever you like that you should... Of course there should be basic consideration for the total stranger sat in front of you on that first meet!

If he offers to split, it may be a sign that he doesn't see you as a romantic prospect either so it works both ways.

Don't impose your rules on someone you don't know - that's a decency thing, not an 'equal opportunity' thing.

It may be more widespread in real life than it is on LS tbf (LS is populated by perfect people, apparently )- this is a common complaint by men in real life too

Edited June 17, 2019 by littleblackheart

June 17, 2019

Exactly. I think a couple of the dudes here are catastrophizing or generalizing way too much, lol. There is hardly a "men vs women" split in this thread. There are literally TWO women who say they will not offer, out of 10+ of us posting on this thread...

People see what they want to see, I guess.

There are more than that, well if you set the bar at “genuinely offer” because there are women who say they offer although they won’t consider the man for a second date if he won’t pay.

But yeah, I accept the point about the catastrophising because as I say it’s rarely happened to me...I just kind of like debating it in a way probably because I find the mindset entitled and...well...pretty abhorrent.

The whole paying for women thing came about because women never had their own incomes and in that era hell yes a guy should pay for his dates. But women in the workforce has changed all that. They have their own money, it’s reduced men’s earnings as men are not expected by industry itself to be the sole bread winner etc. yet women still cling to being paid for on one hand while no doubt espousing the strong independent woman rubbish on the other. It’s not an attractive mindset and I think it’s good to challenge it when possible. Although again I accept that people never change their outlook. You’re either a traditional kind of woman or you aren’t I guess. No number of thread pages will get you to appreciate it from the opposite POV.

June 17, 2019

Nobody is imposing their rules on anyone. The person asking the other out can make it clear that they want to go Dutch. I don’t think it’s rude and inconsiderate to let someone pay for an outing that they invited you to. I always offer to pay. But at the same time, if I invite somebody out, I assume that I am paying and certainly wouldn’t expect them to pay their way.

Edit: Especially if it’s a date. It’s supposed to be a fun outing that you are treating the other person to. Turning it into a financial transaction kind of defeats the purpose. Or maybe it doesn’t, depending on what you are looking for or who you are dating.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Veronica73

June 17, 2019

Well, not offering to pay = expecting the guy to do it = imposing your rule on him. Offering to pay (and meaning it) is basic consideration for the guy. He can choose to invite you (those who do call themselves chilvalrous, I think), or go Dutch for the same reasons you would go Dutch (not interested).

But as you say, you assume you are paying so that doesn't concern you .

Enough people do it that it's probably not such small minority after all, though(in real life, not on LS naturally).

June 17, 2019

Nobody is imposing their rules on anyone. The person asking the other out can make it clear that they want to go Dutch. I don’t think it’s rude and inconsiderate to let someone pay for an outing that they invited you to. I always offer to pay. But at the same time, if I invite somebody out, I assume that I am paying and certainly wouldn’t expect them to pay their way.

Edit: Especially if it’s a date. It’s supposed to be a fun outing that you are treating the other person to. Turning it into a financial transaction kind of defeats the purpose. Or maybe it doesn’t, depending on what you are looking for or who you are dating.

I wholeheartedly agree with that in theory, but how is it supposed to work in online dating where the woman believes it is the mans role to do the asking? Whilst I have met many forward thinking women off OLD who have paid their way I can’t think of any woman ever who has asked me to go on a date with her. It just does not happen. So all this “The asker pays” stuff is a lot of flim flam in my opinion to mask the female privilege that is at work whereby the man is expected to be the pursuer. We all know how the mechanics actually work in reality. Regardless of who pays the man is always the one to ask. That will never change.

In fact I’m interested in being challenged on this: are there any women reading this thread who have asked a guy out for a *first* date on online dating? Come on girls, let’s see a show of hands....

Edited June 17, 2019 by some_username1

June 17, 2019

I don’t ask guys out the first time. But I certainly will after that. And no guy I have ever dated would say that I took advantage of him financially in any way, shape or form.

And I can’t speak to OLD dynamics! I’ve only done it for two weeks in my life and I think it completely sucks ass!! I’d never do it again unless I was unbelievably desperate and lonely. (And I’m not saying that people who are on OLD are desperate and lonely...just that meeting people in real life is much better for me personally)

June 17, 2019

Well, not offering to pay = expecting the guy to do it = imposing your rule on him. Offering to pay (and meaning it) is basic consideration for the guy. He can choose to invite you (those who do call themselves chilvalrous, I think), or go Dutch for the same reasons you would go Dutch (not interested).

But as you say, you assume you are paying so that doesn't concern you .

Enough people do it that it's probably not such small minority after all, though(in real life, not on LS naturally).

Nice logic

June 17, 2019

Okay, so I’ll stop posting. Since this doesn’t apply to me. And the huge swath of guys here who date women who don’t offer to pay, and the two women here who don’t offer to pay, can continue the conversation.

June 17, 2019

Okay, I guess I’m not done.

But in my brief, 2-week foray into OLD, I went on 3 dates.

1. Picnic. We both brought items for said picnic. Equal cost. (And actually the most fun of any of my OLD dates and we went on 3 subsequent dates).

2. Dinner. My date made it clear at the beginning of the date that we were going Dutch. Equal cost. And I don’t think either of us were “feeling it”.

3. Dinner. My date wanted to pay the whole thing, but I knew I wasn’t interested in dating him so I insisted on paying my share. Even if I was interested I would have offered to pay. But yes...if he had accepted my offer, that probably would have killed any attraction. Equal cost.

June 17, 2019

I don’t think there’s a misunderstanding. There seems to be a few women here who don’t even offer to pay, or take turns or reciprocate financially. (I’m not one of them, and they seem to be in the minority on this forum) That’s a huge turnoff to you, and that’s great. All I’m saying is that this is dating. People can have their weird preferences and whatever. It’s not an equal opportunity situation.

Don’t whine about how unfair it is that dating is expensive, while you keep shelling out money. That is entirely your own choice. You don’t have to do it. (And I’m not saying “you” personally. It’s a generic “you”.)

And actually on this forum I don’t think any woman said they wouldn’t reciprocate at all. Some admitted they would reciprocate on dates later or cook/bake cookies....

But I don’t remember seeing anybody on this forum that said about themselves that they don’t offer to pay for dates at all or don’t reciprocate at all. I did say some women don’t reciprocate at all when I gave a large list on what reciprocation on dates mean to different women.

And also the argument I did see was whether or not a woman offered to pay on the FIRST date where there were different views from both men and women about that

June 17, 2019

Exactly. I think a couple of the dudes here are catastrophizing or generalizing way too much, lol. There is hardly a "men vs women" split in this thread. There are literally TWO women who say they will not offer, out of 10+ of us posting on this thread...

People see what they want to see, I guess.

Actually it’s you who see what you want to see

Three women said they don’t offer on the first date. Many women said they only offer if they DONT LIKE THE GUY

Some said they would pay if they asked the guy out but believe he should pay if he asked her out

Some men on here find it disrespectful if they offer to pay

Again quit blowing up your own ideals and recognize that many women have different views on what they do and why they do it. Disagree if you want but don’t make it seem like most/majority of women do what you do. In the experiences of other people that story changes.

Same goes for littleblack comment about what’s normal vs what’s not

Now personally I really don’t particularly care how many women or men agree with how I choose to do things in dating. I am going to continue to do what’s best for me of course but I do find the display of bigotry and small mindness in this thread incredibly annoying....

June 17, 2019

Is it really traditional to not offer?

When I was young and bored out of my mind in school, I picked up this book titled "A Young Lady's Etiquette Handbook" in my Catholic school's library. This book was yellowed and moth-eaten and written in, I think, the very early 1900s or late 1800s. It had plenty of extremely traditional suggestions such as: "A gentleman stands when a lady enters the room, and remains standing until she invites him to sit. Only a thoughtless girl would engage him in lengthy conversation before saying, 'Please be seated, Jack.'" There was also plenty of advice on housekeeping, grooming, and how to maintain a dignified posture. (Yes, like I said, I was bored.)

Another part of the book covered what to do on a date when the bill comes. "A lady should always offer to pay her share. However, if the boy is a gentleman, he will refuse to allow her to do so."

So no, I'm pretty sure that "being traditional" doesn't necessarily entail not even offering.

I care not that your source for how a woman should act came from some moldy book

What I was trying to explain when I made that comment is that for some women’s perspective (if you can even understand that) she believes that if a guy asks her out he should pay and she believes she is a traditional girl and wants a traditional guy in that sense. I personally don’t use the terms traditional. I don’t even make the claim on my dating practices as traditional nor do I claim what’s modern either but I do know some women see their own practices that way. That’s their reasons

You and some people see it as a disrespect thing not to offer on the first date. But it’s obvious that some women don’t see it that way and some men don’t either. Some men find it disrespectful if you did and again many women offer if they don’t like the guy so it’s conditional respect.

Different perspectives people...

June 17, 2019

I am going to continue to do what’s best for me....

And that is how it generally works, people do what is best for themselves.

Some men love paying as it gives them an edge and it makes them feel good.

Some men hate it as they feel taken advantage of.

Some women love being "treated, as it makes them feel good.

Some women hate it as they feel beholden and "less than".

Of course there is economics to consider too, some people would be very generous but literally cannot afford to be and some are just money grabbing and mean by nature.

Its horses for courses, no-one SHOULD do anything.

Don't like it, then just walk away.

June 17, 2019

So all this “The asker pays” stuff is a lot of flim flam in my opinion to mask the female privilege that is at work whereby the man is expected to be the pursuer. We all know how the mechanics actually work in reality. Regardless of who pays the man is always the one to ask. That will never change.

Hah! “Female privilege”. Love it when people take the language of the oppressed and own it for themselves. Lol!

Edit: Nobody is entitled to a date or a partner. It’s not a right.

Edit 2: I could add a whole lot of other things in response to this idiocy, but I will choose not to because I will get banned. OMG!! I can’t even.....................

Edited June 17, 2019 by Veronica73

June 17, 2019

Hah! “Female privilege”. Love it when people take the language of the oppressed and own it for themselves. Lol!

Edit: Nobody is entitled to a date or a partner. It’s not a right.

Now now, let's not play the Oppression Olympics, I think only the most blinkered/naive would claim that there are not areas in life where women have an advantage over men just as there are areas where men are likewise advantaged. We've come a very long way since the 1950's

And considering we are supposed to be living in an age of equality I don't see much equality in women thinking they are ones who should be pursued and as such the man should do the asking (as evidenced by some of the testimony in this very thread). As I said, I'm sure I'll be proved wrong by the coach load of forward thinking women that are about to rock up and tell us that they pursue the man and ask for the first date, they'll be here any second now I'm sure...

June 17, 2019

I don’t give a crap. Do whatever works best for you as far as dating is concerned. Acting like you are oppressed because of “women’s privilege”. Glad that works for you. Boo hoo. Get a grip.

June 17, 2019

I don’t give a crap. Do whatever works best for you as far as dating is concerned. Acting like you are oppressed because of “women’s privilege”. Glad that works for you. Boo hoo. Get a grip.

No need to get so emotional, sheesh

But actually, to pick up on the bolded that is exactly what bothers me about this whole debate and CR86 also mentioned it. The whole thing about "I'll do what's best for me" - there is no altruism in that statement and it's kind of indicative of how selfish we are as a society today in my opinion.

"I'll do what's best for me" is always not to pay on a first date because, hey, you keep your money and everyone loves their own money and doesn't care about anyone else's right? That's why I have the utmost respect for anyone who genuinely offers on a first date because it's so altruistic and speaks a lot about the character of the other person in an era where everyone seems out for themselves.

June 17, 2019

Okay, I guess I’m not done.

But in my brief, 2-week foray into OLD, I went on 3 dates.
1. Picnic. We both brought items for said picnic. Equal cost. (And actually the most fun of any of my OLD dates and we went on 3 subsequent dates).
2. Dinner. My date made it clear at the beginning of the date that we were going Dutch. Equal cost. And I don’t think either of us were “feeling it”.
3. Dinner. My date wanted to pay the whole thing, but I knew I wasn’t interested in dating him so I insisted on paying my share. Even if I was interested I would have offered to pay. But yes...if he had accepted my offer, that probably would have killed any attraction. Equal cost.

Sorry I have to chime in. According to your conclusion in 3, wouldn’t 2 have preemptively killed any potential attraction? I wonder how the guy even worded his suggestion?

Personally I would always offer during the initial few dates. But my offers would be more sincere the less my attraction level to the guy, and I would insist if I have no attraction at all. I also found that as I got older (and dated older men), it’s getting harder to get them to accept my offers.

I think the more problematic is when a couple are already in a relationship, and the woman still expects her boyfriend to always pay for (expensive) dates. Unless the man in this case is making a lot more, I would call such a woman high maintenance.

Edited June 17, 2019 by JuneL

June 17, 2019

Sorry I have to chime in. According to your conclusion in 3, wouldn’t 2 have preemptively killed any potential attraction? I wonder how the guy even worded his suggestion?

I assumed these were three first dates.

June 17, 2019

Yes, 2 would have preemptively killed any attraction. And he may have been well aware of that. I don’t care.

If I ask someone out, I expect to pay.

If they ask me out, I offer to chip in. If they accept... then yes, it’s a complete lady boner killer. And as to the “Oh, guys do most of the asking out for the first time”. Why would I care about that as a woman who is going out on a date with someone I am interested in dating? It’s not my job to make it easier/cheaper for him to date someone else if he’s not interested in me. And I already said that if I don’t have interest in dating the guy again, I not only offer to chip in, I insist.

June 17, 2019

l think if l did go on a date l'd consider her an entitled type if she didn't offer.

l wouldn't accept the offer but l'd expect any half decent woman to at least offer though.

Then again , l suppose if l went on as many dates as some round here seem to you'd have to start being a bit practical or it'd drain you financially in the end.

June 17, 2019

I assumed these were three first dates.

Yes, they were!

June 17, 2019

"I'll do what's best for me" is always not to pay on a first date because, hey, you keep your money and everyone loves their own money and doesn't care about anyone else's right? That's why I have the utmost respect for anyone who genuinely offers on a first date because it's so altruistic and speaks a lot about the character of the other person in an era where everyone seems out for themselves.

I’m not getting emotional. I said I don’t give a crap. And I literally mean that! I really, really don’t, lol!

This doesn’t effect me in any way.

If you don’t want to date a woman that doesn’t insist, or offer, on paying her way, then don’t! That’s great! That’s one of the ways dating is so much better than finding a job. You can be yourself and be an equal and look for what you really want. That’s why I say dating isn’t an equal opportunity employment situation.

June 17, 2019

I assumed these were three first dates.

That’s what I understood as well. So guy #2 was like, “Hey Veronica, I don’t mind going on a dinner date with you, but you have to pay for your own dishes!”

June 17, 2019

That’s what I understood as well. So guy #2 was like, “Hey Veronica, I don’t mind going on a dinner date with you, but you have to pay for your own dishes!”

Yeah, that was basically what it was. It was an online thing and we met for the first time in front of the restaurant. And I saw the look on his face when he saw me. He was disappointed. And before we ordered, he was like, “we don’t really know each other, and we are going to be friends first (that was in my profile) so we should go Dutch”. And I of course was like “of course!”. I think he did have a good time. I did too. We went out for drinks after dinner (at his suggestion). Anyway....

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