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FMW Established Member

FMW

Posted
Posted

Just to clarify: My "life view" comment was made in response to another poster indicating me, as a woman, not being friends with a woman who expected men to pay their way would be "shunning" them because they did not "assimilate" to my group of friends' views.

Curiousroxy86 Established Member

Curiousroxy86

Posted
Posted
Clearly everyone has their own views on this (as in most things) so the trick is find someone who agrees with or at least can go along with how you want to deal with the paying issue. Just another level of compatibility.

 

I posted earlier mainly to make it clear not all women are expecting for the guy to pay. I don't want the men who have an issue with all the posts from women supporting the man should pay theme thinking ALL women are the same. I see plenty of posts from men who paint women as a monolith who have unfair expectations of men as far as paying goes. I don't like being lumped in with "all women".

 

whats even more amusing alot of men on here express they dont mind and is even offended if she offers to pay and would even not want to date her again. yet so many people come to this thread pushing their own views on others talking about she "should" offer to pay :rolleyes:.

 

there is clearly different views which is fine. I can respect that some women choose to pay their own way and insist. some men judge if a woman doesnt offer on the first date. doesnt change my mind. doesnt make me think any less of the people who choose to do whats best for THEM. I just find it annoying how one tries to convince the other to go their own way talking about "should" and making statements about what it means about the person who dont...

Kitty Tantrum Established Member

Kitty Tantrum

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Posted
Hmm...with all due respect I wonder how many would actually turn up for the date if you explained to them in advance that you have that mindset?

 

I pay for dates but I certainly do not do so from the point of view that I am paying for someone's time and interest. Ugh, that whole thought makes me feel like I need a wash- it's like the mindset of a peasant.

 

See, my "mindset" and the way I deal with men in general is all about filtering out as many of them as possible. In this hypothetical world where I'm single, I don't WANT to go on a lot of dates. I'm not looking to have a good time on someone else's dime. I'm looking for a man who is looking for the specific things that I bring to the table in a partnership. The kind of man who is looking for a girl like me isn't the sort of man who assumes that I am a woman of independent means.

 

I don't "go out" on my own or with friends. It's not in my budget and it's not what I like to do for fun. If a guy wants me to go out of my way to go and do something with him one-on-one so that he can get to know me, and the thing he chooses costs money, the proper thing is for him to pay. I've already made it pretty clear that I'm not opposed to cheap dates. I'm also not opposed to no-cost dates. In fact, if he asks ME to choose the first date activity, I'm gonna suggest something that's basically free (true story: the one time I had a guy take me somewhere and basically say "get whatever you want, it's on me," I chose ONE little thing that cost a couple bucks - I ain't no gold-digger) - so it's not about PAYING for my time. But if he chooses something specific that costs money, and then expects me to pay my half at the end... I'll do it, and I'll do it without hesitation or complaint - but I won't see him again.

 

That would be a losing game for me on two fronts: 1) I'd be dating a man who is clearly not interested in women of my particular disposition, and 2) even if I'm only paying $20 or so for my portion of the food/activities/whatever, that's a big financial burden for me. I can feed myself for a whole week on $20 - and restaurant food usually isn't even good.

 

Peasant mentality? Maybe. I WAS born and raised in poverty. But I can say in all seriousness (and I've had the compliments to prove it) that I'm one of the most pleasant and LEAST entitled women you're likely to find anywhere, and growing up poor has necessitated that I develop a set of practical/domestic skills that you're not likely to find in the average woman who has money to throw down regularly on the recreational pursuit of fresh dick.

 

Enough men agree with this and appreciate this about me, that I really don't have to spend my time worrying about accommodating the ones who might get frustrated that I don't buy into the "modern woman" script. Upset that I didn't make a "soft" offer to split the check when he reached for it, to the point that he doesn't want to go out with me again? GOOD. He doesn't want me, anyway.

 

Ok but he too is offering his time and attention to you? How else are you going to actually meet up if he doesn't invite you?:confused: Does a woman with a 'traditional' mindset when it comes to courting issue invitations too to guys that she likes?:confused:

 

I can't even conceive of a situation where I could possibly "like" a perfect stranger enough to want to go off and spend time with him one-on-one in any capacity. I don't know him. Guys don't seem to have any such compunction - they see me and think I'm pretty and want to get in my pants.

 

As I touched on before, for me to "like" a guy enough to do anything resembling showing interest first, he has to be someone I've already known for a while. He can be poor as heck and I don't even care as long as he's demonstrated that he's a decent, caring, and trustworthy guy (not some fly-by-night with no ties to my community and essentially nothing to lose by behaving poorly). Bonus points if he's in good social standing with any of the men I look up to (my dad, my stepdad, my former employer who was almost like a second dad to me for a little while, etc.).

 

I STILL wouldn't ask that guy on a date, though. I would bake him cookies (or somesuch thing). I HAVE baked a lot of cookies for guys I liked. It costs way less than half of a typical date, and sends a much more appropriate and accurate message about the sort of relationship I want than throwing down money.

  • Like 1
alphamale Established Member

alphamale

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I STILL wouldn't ask that guy on a date, though. I would bake him cookies (or somesuch thing). I HAVE baked a lot of cookies for guys I liked. It costs way less than half of a typical date, and sends a much more appropriate and accurate message about the sort of relationship I want than throwing down money.

 

when I was younger I had a lot of women making me zucchini bread, carrot cake, shortbread cookies, and whatnot. all of them were single and looking for a husband :laugh:

 

but it was a very nice gesture on all the ladies part

Kitty Tantrum Established Member

Kitty Tantrum

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Posted (edited)
when I was younger I had a lot of women making me zucchini bread, carrot cake, shortbread cookies, and whatnot. all of them were single and looking for a husband :laugh:

 

but it was a very nice gesture on all the ladies part

 

 

^^ And as long as they stuck with that tactic (and didn't completely suck at baking), I'd bet most of those ladies are now married and don't have to worry about ending up on dates with male feminists who want them to pay their own way. :lmao:

Edited by Kitty Tantrum
added quote due to new page
  • Like 1
littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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Posted (edited)
I can't even conceive of a situation where I could possibly "like" a perfect stranger enough to want to go off and spend time with him one-on-one in any capacity. I don't know him.

 

You've shifted the conversation a little to suit your perspective, it seems :)

 

If you look again, my whole point (and I think where the contention is for a lot of men on the subject, regardless of where anyone places on the traditional/modern scale) is the first meet from 'online'.

 

Presumably, everyone is 'online' to find a relationship of sorts - no one 'meets' by happenstance on there. There exactly zero valid, rational, fair explanation to expect the guy to do more than you do. You are both on a level playing field - it's preposterous to not to even want to cover your share when both of you are there for the same exact reason.

 

If one of you wants to show a strong interest in the other, for sure offer to cover the whole thing or play coy and accept the offer, but to decide straight up you will not cover your share before meeting is, to me, completely disrespectful and entitled. After that first meet, do whatever you like.

 

 

If the guy comes to you in a supermarket or a coffee shop or at work or any random place and catches you off guard, then sure, do whatever fits your views.

Edited by littleblackheart
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Curiousroxy86 Established Member

Curiousroxy86

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Posted

 

 

If one of you wants to show a strong interest in the other, for sure offer to cover the whole thing or play coy and accept the offer, but to decide straight up you will not cover your share before meeting is, to me, completely disrespectful and entitled. After that first meet, do whatever you like.

 

 

.

 

Why are you so dead set on changing her mind though? Annnnnd I could have sworn she said she would cover her share if she was asked? What exactly is your real point?

 

You think women should offer to cover her share on the first date? Ok we got it. That’s your view.

 

Guess what? She not going to offer for her own reasons. I am not going to offer a mutha effin thing for the first two dates (three dates if the first was date zero) for my own reasons. I too am always prepared to go dutch but I personally wouldn’t necessarily hold it against a guy who asked.

 

Now what is there more to argue about?

 

Listen....some women are selfish and won’t reciprocate anything. Some women believe that on the first date or all dates women should atleast offer and you covered and others did as well extensively on why they believe that way. Some women believe that the one who asks should pay. Some of those women who believe that do the asking (some on the first date some on the 2nd date or thereafter). Some of those women who believe that will never ask lol. Some of those women don’t believe in paying anything and that the man pays for dates but believe in reciprocating by cooking or more creative ways to contribute and reciprocate simply because she may view paying for dates a masculine thing and cooking as a feminine thing or that she just may be good at cooking or that she don’t have the money to pay for restaurants and cooking is more frugal and within her budget but still wants to reciprocate somehow. Some women believe the man should pay first and she will pay 2nd and is willing to pay reciprocally after that because she may feel men (atleast the ones she dates) should take the lead but she still believes women should reciprocate (I believe this except I believe men should not only take the lead but also show true interest in dating me before I will reciprocate hence why I wait till date 3 or 4). Some women insist on paying because she may feel she is independent, don’t need a man, not comfortable with getting anything from a man, and don’t want a man to hold anything over her head. Some women pay for it all because that is how she shows she likes someone and doesn’t mind doing the pursuing in that way. Some women offer only because she don’t like the guy and doesn’t want him to feel taken advantage of because she not going to see him again and when it’s a guy she like she don’t offer because in her mind she is gladly accepting that he is treating her and wants to continue seeing him with plans to reciprocate later or she don’t plan to reciprocate at all depending on her views above. Some women may do a combination of these things for many reasons.

 

As you can see many different views from women on how they see paying and what it means to them and I’m sure I still missed some

 

You clearly saw that some men find it disrespectful and unattractive that women offer/insist to pay

 

just like some men find it disrespectful and unattractive that women don’t offer to pay

 

Different views for their own different reasons

 

So again what is your point?

 

The fact that your so stuck on your own way and arguing down another’s stance is disrespectful, presumptuous, bigoted, and incredibly close minded...imo

  • Like 2
littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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What? I don't care to change anyone's mind. Besides, I have no doubt KT is perfectly capable to form her own thoughts and views without my input or a spokesperson.

 

As I previously posted (maybe you missed it because I touched a raw nerve), I have no strong opinion either way in terms of traditional / modern views.

 

 

If you are online, you are looking for a relationship. If you clearly state on your profile that you have 'traditional views' that already sets the tone and the guy knows what it means.

 

Likewise, if the guy says he likes 'modern' women, the woman who goes on a date with him can read between the lines.

 

If it's all left up in the air, neither (nor the man, nor the woman) has any basis on which to go, so it's presumptuous on both sides to expect anything from a total stranger.

 

In that circumstance, there us no clear reason why either should impose their views on the other, so you have to be prepared to covetr your share either way - this is what most people I know do, btw.

 

Btw, KT said she would never offer to pay - it's one thing to only accept pay when you don't like the guy, it's another to assume the guy should cover everything whether he likes you or not, just because.

 

It needs to be a choice for both parties, not an expectation. As I said, it's mindset, not the view.

  • Like 1
some_username1 Established Member

some_username1

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This thread makes me wonder what online dating would be like if one of the questions on a dating app was: “Would you offer to pay your share on a first date?” With a choice of 3 answers:

 

1. Yes.

 

2. No.

 

3. Not going to offer a mutha effin thing.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

The funny thing is, it’s actually a very pertinent question as evidenced by the disparity of views in this thread and unlike height (which is already a filter in Bumble and advantages women) I rather suspect it would never be adopted because to my mind it advantages men.

  • Like 1
FMW Established Member

FMW

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Thanks for the laugh some_username1!

:lmao::lmao: :lmao:

  • Like 1
Peony86 Member

Peony86

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It depends on who asked who out.

 

If you asked her out, she might assume it's your treat.

 

I always take my purse out even if someone asks me out, as I don't want to assume they can afford to cover the whole bill. I think it's a bit rude otherwise. But then again I am not looking for a man to support me financially or have children with. If I was, I might be looking to see if he is a good provider? I still think it's a bit of a rude and terribly upfront way to ascertain that.

littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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I rather suspect it would never be adopted because to my mind it advantages men.

 

Maybe it's just a female ego thing: how dare he not like me / pay for me, I'm awesome! Which is totally understandable - a first meet would make most people feel vulnerable and wary of rejection.

 

I think guys should totally want to share the bill if they don't feel it, especially if the lady won't make the first move / do the asking anyway. Why would anyone want to put themselves in an automatic lose lose situation without even having a say?

 

If covering the whole thing is what he chooses to do of his own volition, that's totally fine too; that shouldn't be the default position, though.

  • Like 1
Curiousroxy86 Established Member

Curiousroxy86

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Posted

 

 

If it's all left up in the air, neither (nor the man, nor the woman) has any basis on which to go, so it's presumptuous on both sides to expect anything from a total stranger.

 

In that circumstance, there us no clear reason why either should impose their views on the other, so you have to be prepared to covetr your share either way - this is what most people I know do, btw.

 

Btw, KT said she would never offer to pay - it's one thing to only accept pay when you don't like the guy, it's another to assume the guy should cover everything whether he likes you or not, just because.

 

It needs to be a choice for both parties, not an expectation. As I said, it's mindset, not the view.

 

1) No one HAS to do anything and it doesn’t NEED to be anything

 

2) I could have sworn she said she is prepared to cover her own share

 

3) your right she don’t offer and some women including myself do not offer (atleast on the first date) in which I covered extensively on why that is. You made it clear extensively on why you think they should. You even admit that it’s presumptuous on BOTH SIDES so that means it’s just as presumptuous for men (or women) to expect a woman to offer on the first date wouldn’t it? I don’t disagree that there is presumption behind it from those of us who don’t offer. It IS unapologetically on purpose. But if the other side is just as presumptive. What is your issue in all this? Besides the fact that you take one side over the other? if we all have our own mindset on how we operate and have our own reasons I would think people are just going to go on dates and do what they believe in and connect to those they are compatible with. The end. So Again I say what is your point? Because if it’s presumptuous on both sides you still feel women should change their mindset? Oh boo hoo. For what exactly? Because all I see from your posts is how you think it’s oh so wrong for A woman to not offer to pay specifically how it relates to online or the premise that a guy have not yet shown that he subscribes to our ideals. and that can very well be true btw but what you may see as a limited/flawed mindset is what I call standards in dating that is polarizing for a reason. It’s filtering for a reason. You may think your mindset on this topic in comparison to kitty’s is more equal/fair/moral but when it comes to dating it’s not about what’s right or what’s wrong it’s about what is. People are going to be who they are and they are going on dates seeing who match. We all have certain expectations on who we date. You may offer to pay because you think it’s fair to do so for the man since again like you keep saying no one knows how each other operate yet. So you don’t want to assume that he will pay. So to be safe you offer to pay your share. But your still assuming too simply because you don’t know yet how the other guy will take that particular action or any action you choose to take while dating him mind you. You thought you were being fair and treating him like an equal and he may think you wasn’t attracted to him, or you don’t like when a man tries to treat you, or that you don’t see him as a man....who knows right? That’s the beautiful and ugly thing about dating in general. So many different mindsets, views, personal rules, boundaries, standards...every action creates a positive or negative reaction. So naturally people are who they are and they date being who they are to find their puzzle piece that will fit (the person that will match). And being considerate or mindful can come out in different ways of their choosing if at all and doesn’t always mean that the woman will show it by offering to pay her share.

 

4. I get your point (few posts ago) that you feel it’s better for women to not try to assume that a man will pay when they go on dates but you keep overriding the reasons why we choose not to offer and only back to your own reasons why you think women should. And THAT right there does get on my nerves. It’s one thing to disagree. It’s another thing to reiterate your reasons without addressing her reasons. Your reasons cancels her reason or just says it’s wrong. It’s fine you feel that way but you keep reiterating it to her to what avail? To me that is the epitome of bigotry which does hit a raw nerve for me. She may view that she wants a traditional man. She has expectations of traditionalism. She will go on dates being a traditional girl and let whatever happens happen. The traditional guy will stick the nontraditional guy will not. She is perfectly fine operating this way. You may view that men she meets doesn’t believe in traditionalism and shouldn’t be subjected to her expectations. Ok y’all disagree we can go home. But wait...you think she should change the way she acts on a date because of it. Um Ok that’s fine you see it that way but your telling her this because......? And technically doesn’t that mean she doesn’t get to be traditional on a date if she follows your point when that is her mindset? So All you are doing is keep revealing that you disagree with her mindset of traditionalism which was evident many posts back. Ugh agree to disagree...

 

5. And Forgive my ignorance but view and mindset is that not the same thing? I guess view is based on the mindset? Like My view is I don’t offer to pay on the first two-three dates. My mindset is I think men (atleast the men I choose to date) should take the lead and show genuine interest in dating me before I reciprocate. Am I getting that wrong on the difference between view and mindset?

Shining One Established Member

Shining One

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Is it really "presumptuous" to expect individuals to pay for what they consume? I've never considered it to be.

Els Established Member

Els

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Imposing a dynamic on someone who has not consented... that kinda goes both ways. It's equally imposing to invite someone out with you and then expect them to pay their own way at the end without any prior discussion of expectations.

 

 

Huh, really? If I'm at work or with my friends and one person proposes going to X place for lunch or coffee, it's absolutely understood that we are all paying our own share unless someone REALLY wants to treat. Do you really pay for your friends every time you ask them out to brunch/lunch?

  • Like 1
littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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@curiousroxy I'm not sure I will do justice to such this post but here goes :)

 

1. I don't know point 1 means. If you're saying you can do whatever you want to do, then sure.

 

2. Being prepared to pay your share if you don't like the guy is normal. Expecting the guy to cover your share whether he likes you or not, on the basis that he invited you , is not, since you are not going to invite him anyway. Catch 22 for the guy who has to.invite you, and has to cover everything regardless of whether he wants to see you again or not. That's entitled, especially when you both 'met' on a platform designed for people to meet (not a chance meeting). How else are you going to meet if he doesn't ask? He is almost forced into a corner.

 

3. The guy shouldn't assume paying for a meal = right to bed the woman, or automatic right to a second date. He shouldn't do it to present a 'gentlemanly' image. I know many dicks who pay on all dates; it is a guaranty of exactly nothing.

 

4. A guy is allowed not to like you, and he shouldn't have to ask you to cover your share. It's common courtesy to offer to pay, and it's respectful of the guy's time to actually mean it. If the guy offers to cover the whole thing, you both know you like each other enough to see each other again = win win. Or it's what he does anyway, which is fine too.

 

5. Life view = I am traditional / I am modern. Nothing wrong with either. As you say, you need to find a compatible guy for this.

 

Mindset = I am entitled to expect the guy to cover the bill since he invited me, whether he likes me or not / I am entitled to have sex / see this woman again since I covered all the bill.

 

I hope that makes sense.

  • Like 2
Els Established Member

Els

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Posted (edited)
She may view that she wants a traditional man. She has expectations of traditionalism. She will go on dates being a traditional girl and let whatever happens happen. The traditional guy will stick the nontraditional guy will not. She is perfectly fine operating this way.

 

Is it really traditional to not offer?

 

When I was young and bored out of my mind in school, I picked up this book titled "A Young Lady's Etiquette Handbook" in my Catholic school's library. This book was yellowed and moth-eaten and written in, I think, the very early 1900s or late 1800s. It had plenty of extremely traditional suggestions such as: "A gentleman stands when a lady enters the room, and remains standing until she invites him to sit. Only a thoughtless girl would engage him in lengthy conversation before saying, 'Please be seated, Jack.'" There was also plenty of advice on housekeeping, grooming, and how to maintain a dignified posture. (Yes, like I said, I was bored.) :laugh:

 

Another part of the book covered what to do on a date when the bill comes. "A lady should always offer to pay her share. However, if the boy is a gentleman, he will refuse to allow her to do so."

 

So no, I'm pretty sure that "being traditional" doesn't necessarily entail not even offering.

Edited by Elswyth
  • Like 2
some_username1 Established Member

some_username1

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Posted
Is it really "presumptuous" to expect individuals to pay for what they consume? I've never considered it to be.

 

In my opinion it is, it lacks class and manners.

 

Put it this way, if I had kids I would raise them to always expect to pay their way if they are at dinner with friends, on a date, whatever. Any social occasion you go to you *don't* leave your wallet or your purse at home. And that advice would be exactly the same for my daughter as it would be my son.

 

It's pretty much how I was raised which is probably why I take a dim view of a woman who clearly thinks "I'm not paying for a stitch tonight" as she opens the front door of her house to go on a date.

 

We've all heard the jokes down the pub about the guy who won't buy a round, I don't see the initial stages of dating as being much different. A willingness to spend one's own money indicates commitment to the occasion and a generous spirit. Paradoxically I am *more* inclined then to spend my own money in return and I'll aim to outspend a generous woman by taking her to dinner on the second date and pick up the tab. A woman who won't even buy one round of drinks won't even get a second date.

some_username1 Established Member

some_username1

Posted
Posted

Some thing I notice that seems to split people by gender pretty neatly in this thread is what it is that we actually value. Perhaps this is part of the disconnect present in this whole argument.

 

Men value their money - quite obviously, it's the most basic resource there is, if you don't have it then your very survival is difficult. Some women place no value at all on a man's money, they expect him to foot the bill and if she doesn't want a second date and he has to go on another 30+ first dates paying the tab then she has no sympathy for the potential sunk cost.

 

Women generally though do seem to value their time. I say this after reading this thread and the cost of dating to women thread. If there is a general consensus to be found it appears to be that women do not spend much money in dating, the cost to them is in time taken to get ready, or time spent cooking him a meal as recompense for the cost of him taking her to dinner and they see this time spent as the equal (if not more so) than the money that the man spends.

 

To bring it full circle, as a man I don't think I appreciate time investment by a woman as being fair recompense to the cost for me of dating. Maybe I should do as that seems to be the main way the more traditional woman reciprocates. But hey, I think I would rather have money in my pocket personally so I think women get the better of that deal....

Els Established Member

Els

Posted
Posted (edited)

To bring it full circle, as a man I don't think I appreciate time investment by a woman as being fair recompense to the cost for me of dating. Maybe I should do as that seems to be the main way the more traditional woman reciprocates. But hey, I think I would rather have money in my pocket personally so I think women get the better of that deal....

 

 

Would you really be willing to spend 2 hours getting ready for a date, every time? I think many men would prefer to spend an extra $50, especially if they have a decent-earning job. $50 for 2 hours is a pretty bad wage, especially if you're also paying for overhead (all the expenses mentioned in the 'cost of getting ready for dates' thread).

 

IMO, most of the people in happy and healthy relationships value each others' time and money, and don't just expect excessive expenditure of either. H is fine with me dressed in casual clothes without makeup or a manicure. I'm fine with going to a food stall for a $10 p/p dinner. We don't feel entitled to the other person spending a lot of time or money just so we can bequeath the pleasure of our company upon them... We just enjoy each others' company without the need for all that stuff.

 

If anyone NEEDS to have a date who's all dolled up and dressed to the nines, or NEEDS to be treated at a fancy restaurant... they're certainly welcome to their own choices, but it's not something that I can really understand.

Edited by Elswyth
  • Like 1
littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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Posted
Some thing I notice that seems to split people by gender pretty neatly in this thread is what it is that we actually value. Perhaps this is part of the disconnect present in this whole argument.

 

It's not a money vs time, woman vs man thing. Not all people who date are straight, for a start...

 

LS is one thing; in real life, there are plenty of people of any gender who respect other people as a whole.

 

As a woman, I value people, not time or money...

  • Like 3
greymatter Established Member

greymatter

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Posted

Men value their money - quite obviously, it's the most basic resource there is, if you don't have it then your very survival is difficult. Some women place no value at all on a man's money, they expect him to foot the bill and if she doesn't want a second date and he has to go on another 30+ first dates paying the tab then she has no sympathy for the potential sunk cost.

 

Women generally though do seem to value their time. I say this after reading this thread and the cost of dating to women thread. If there is a general consensus to be found it appears to be that women do not spend much money in dating, the cost to them is in time taken to get ready, or time spent cooking him a meal as recompense for the cost of him taking her to dinner and they see this time spent as the equal (if not more so) than the money that the man spends.

 

Generalizing never comes close to describing reality. I value money as much as the next woman. ;-) Survival is difficult without that.

 

I spend money on my partner as often as he does on me, which is often. I don't cook him meals to make up for dinners out that he paid for. That's quite an assumption on your part, that this is the only option women have. My partner and I both have money. We loosely take turns with who pays for our dinners out, and activities, although sometimes he has a paid a few times in a row, or I have. We both make food at our homes, for each other, or we cook together.

 

We both are fortunate to have good incomes and we both enjoy treating each other. Please stop generalizing that men are the ones with the money and women have to make do with offering their time, the assumption being that they don't have money. Times have changed, but this type of mindset clearly has not.

 

As for women who expect men to always pay, all I can do is roll my eyes - you don't represent all women. The same eye roll applies to men who believe that all women just want a free meal. If that is all you have experienced, take a look at your selection process in dating, and what you are bringing to the table (:D) in terms of who you are able to attract.

  • Like 1
some_username1 Established Member

some_username1

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Posted (edited)
Generalizing never comes close to describing reality. I value money as much as the next woman. ;-) Survival is difficult without that.

 

I spend money on my partner as often as he does on me, which is often. I don't cook him meals to make up for dinners out that he paid for. That's quite an assumption on your part, that this is the only option women have. My partner and I both have money. We loosely take turns with who pays for our dinners out, and activities, although sometimes he has a paid a few times in a row, or I have. We both make food at our homes, for each other, or we cook together.

 

We both are fortunate to have good incomes and we both enjoy treating each other. Please stop generalizing that men are the ones with the money and women have to make do with offering their time, the assumption being that they don't have money. Times have changed, but this type of mindset clearly has not.

As for women who expect men to always pay, all I can do is roll my eyes - you don't represent all women. The same eye roll applies to men who believe that all women just want a free meal. If that is all you have experienced, take a look at your selection process in dating, and what you are bringing to the table (:D) in terms of who you are able to attract.

 

Please stop putting words in my mouth ;)

 

I was hypothesising only that women's form of reciprocation ( based on what I'm reading on here) in dating seemed to involve time, I think you will struggle to find anywhere where I said or even intimated that is because that is all they have to offer. Having dated a number of high achieving women who out earn me I know very well that most women can pay their way perfectly well if they *choose* to, some however do not and choose to contribute through other means (most notably ways that have a large time component).

 

Thank you though for taking pains to remind us all that the women we are dating who are sat on their purse have actually got lots of money. The irony wasn't lost on me :D

Edited by some_username1
Curiousroxy86 Established Member

Curiousroxy86

Posted
Posted
Is it really "presumptuous" to expect individuals to pay for what they consume? I've never considered it to be.

 

Listen do you boo...

 

I laid out in great detail how many women see the subject of paying right? And I’m sure I missed some views.

 

So yes if you go into dating taking a stance that you expect her to pay her own way I would encourage you to either a) let her know prior to going out with her or b) when the waitress come around say “we are seperate”...

 

And whatever happens happens

 

and you may say I shouldn’t have to do that. But the fact is some women OBVIOUSLY don’t see it your way. Or men for that matter which allow women to comfortably hold their views....

some_username1 Established Member

some_username1

Posted
Posted
Would you really be willing to spend 2 hours getting ready for a date, every time? I think many men would prefer to spend an extra $50, especially if they have a decent-earning job. $50 for 2 hours is a pretty bad wage, especially if you're also paying for overhead (all the expenses mentioned in the 'cost of getting ready for dates' thread).

 

IMO, most of the people in happy and healthy relationships value each others' time and money, and don't just expect excessive expenditure of either. H is fine with me dressed in casual clothes without makeup or a manicure. I'm fine with going to a food stall for a $10 p/p dinner. We don't feel entitled to the other person spending a lot of time or money just so we can bequeath the pleasure of our company upon them... We just enjoy each others' company without the need for all that stuff.

 

If anyone NEEDS to have a date who's all dolled up and dressed to the nines, or NEEDS to be treated at a fancy restaurant... they're certainly welcome to their own choices, but it's not something that I can really understand.

 

Speak for yourself- it would take more than 2 hours here in the Uk to earn £50 on the average wage. Wages are in decline while living costs are on the rise. A round of alcoholic drinks for two will set you back £10.00 at least so footing the bill on the first date is not an inconsiderable expense.

 

The whole thing seems to be the wrong way round for me anyway. My take on it is a first date should be an equal opportunity enterprise- who really wants to pay for someone who may reject them at the end of it? Far better to pay when the woman has earned the right to further investment.

 

As it happens the last girl I dated was a high achiever monetarily and she was tight as a duck’s arse, I paid for everything even though she earned double my wage. The girl I’m dating at the moment gave up a good wage for a healthcare vocation so she earns less than I do yet she is always trying to pay for meals, cooks for me etc. She is very generous of spirit and as a result I won’t have any of it and actually enjoy paying for her. Out of the two of them I know which one I much prefer dating and it isn’t even close.

While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!
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