Gaeta Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 date zero (walk in the park, beverage date, anything extremely cheap or free) isnt suppose to be a real date. people who do date zeros want to see if they even want to continue to invest more time and effort into the person. so no date zeros or just a beverage date do not count as "effort" to me. plus I dont drink alcohol so mine is not going to cost that much.and it's how it should be on a first meeting. I've had many 0$ dates that were fun like a day in a park, garage sales, flea market, free out door concerts, beach...those were not real dates cause they didn't have big $ atrached to them? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 OP spends way too much money on these first dates on women he has no clue he'll see again. Agreed. If it's at a place where settling the bill is a painful concept, wrong by nature. Were I single (thankfully not!), I'd pay since the date was my invite but it would be a low-key setting with minimal cost... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Partymix19 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 My buddy’s Mom had a rule of thumb. You open the car door for a chick to let her in, you close the door and walk around to the driver side. You’ll know a chick worth keeping if she reaches across to open YOUR door. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
Michelle ma Belle Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I'm an equal opportunity dater which means I have no problem asking a guy out and/or picking up the whole cheque or part of it etc. I've been on countless dates, including first dates where I was pursued (hard) and where I've ended up paying. That being said, I'm also a bit old school when it comes to some aspects of dating. I think the person doing the initial pursing (so often it's the guy), should also be the one to pay. Just like if a girl pursues a guy and asks him out, SHE should be ready and willing to open her wallet on the first date. If you feel like dating is getting expensive, particularly first dates, that's on YOU. No one said you needed to roll out the red carpet and pick the most expensive joint in town. If you're doing all of that to make a good impression then you should also be willing to pay for it. Otherwise, change your strategy. Pick a cool but more cost-efficient joint and just meet for one drink or a coffee. No need to spend loads of money on an initial meet & greet. Save that for if/when chemistry has been established. Link to post Share on other sites
Orokotikki Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 OP how many different women are we talking about here? 3 points may define a line, but not a trend. Link to post Share on other sites
Marty7787 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I think who ever does the asking out should pay for the first date. It doesn't matter how much money you spend, it's the company, keep things cheap until you're a bit more sure on the person. For me I do this, 1st date - Indian restaurant (food/drinks) - £40 2nd date - Coffee - Cinema - food somewhere cheap/take away food - £50 3rd date - Dinner, film, drinks (all at my house) - £30 Go for a picnic in the park, take a walk around some historic buildings, art gallery, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Kitty Tantrum Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Leaving the details of who is paying for what up in the air until the check comes is a bad move if you're not fully planning and expecting to cover it all yourself. So is overthinking "what it MEANS" if a woman doesn't offer to split the check. There's a ton of cultural/regional/generational variation here, and people's understanding/expectations in these situations might be drastically different from yours, based on something that has nothing to do with their interest in you, or their own quality as a person. I would never offer to split the check (assuming the man invited me out), because IN MY BOOK, that's a rejection of generosity. I don't stand for it if my friends offer to pay if I invite them out to do something either. Old fashioned sensibilities and principles might be dead in the media at large, but some of us are still keeping them alive. And honestly, if a guy wrote me off as "entitled" or a bad investment because I didn't offer to pay my own way on a first date, that would be entirely his loss. If you want a modern woman, make it clear that the first date is always dutch. If you want a more traditional woman, you'll have a better shot if you don't try to challenge or subvert tradition right out of the gate in your interactions with her. If I were single, I would be very unlikely to accept a date with a man who wanted to go dutch. And that's not because I'm entitled or stingy or inclined to use men for free meals or anything like that, I'm just not interested in any situation that looks like it's heading toward any sort of modern egalitarian relationship. In my book, men and women are supposed to have different roles. A man who wants to homogenize those roles and split everything down the middle on principle probably isn't a good match for me. That being said... there ARE a lot of entitled women out there. But, depending on what you're looking for in a woman, if you're filtering out ALL of the ones with more traditional expectations and behaviors, you might miss out on some gems. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I did buy myself a nice shirt or two. But is that prosperous? I should go back to my old wardrobe or better yet, wear clothes I haven't worn in a decade if that's what it is. Most women are looking for a strong provider. Yes, if you're dressing better, they're assuming you can afford to provide in the form of paying for dates, hoping you'll be a guy who can provide on down the line once she's pregnant, breastfeeding, and taking care of your little babies. No woman who respects herself wants to be saddled with the obligation to earn income when she needs to be focused on this far more important work. If you don't want to be perceived as a provider, yes, you'd be served well by presenting yourself in a more low-key way. You can also talk about equality and feminism before you ever go out. As a traditional woman looking for a man who's a strong provider who embraces the masculine role as I embrace the feminine role, I have zero interest in feminist men and lose all interest in men who get into that kind of talk. It saves both of us time and energy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Any ideas? yes, with the #MeToo movement women now feel more empowered to behave badly Link to post Share on other sites
rightondude Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 If you ask the woman out, you should pay. They are accepting your invitation. If you asked a woman to have dinner at your house and you were cooking, would you ask them to "throw in some bones" on the meal? I sure hope not... be THE MAN. Court the women and try to bed them. Spend some money on them, show them you think they're special and worth spoiling a bit. Don't go crazy acting desperate and don't offer them money to sleep with you and don't continue to do so if you don't want to be with her, but for goodness sake take the woman you're interested in out to dinner! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Michelle ma Belle Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 yes, with the #MeToo movement women now feel more empowered to behave badly Umm...the #MeToo movement was created because MEN were (and still do) behave badly towards women. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Umm...the #MeToo movement was created because MEN were (and still do) behave badly towards women. oh yea MmB, I forgot about that Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Most women are looking for a strong provider. No, not most women. Certain women yes, the ones still living by the last century rule book. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 be THE MAN. Court the women and try to bed them. Spend some money on them, show them you think they're special and worth spoiling a bit. Don't go crazy acting desperate and don't offer them money to sleep with you and don't continue to do so if you don't want to be with her, but for goodness sake take the woman you're interested in out to dinner! Right on, dude 1 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 No, not most women. Certain women yes, the ones still living by the last century rule book. even financially successful women seek men who are MORE financially successful than they are 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Lemming Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 be THE MAN. Court the women and try to bed them. Spend some money on them, show them you think they're special and worth spoiling a bit. ...but for goodness sake take the woman you're interested in out to dinner! Yes... add me to "Ruby Slippers" agreeing with this!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 even financially successful women seek men who are MORE financially successful than they are And studies show that the majority of women with lower-earning men (80%+) harbor resentment toward them for it, don't truly respect or admire them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Yes... add me to "Ruby Slippers" agreeing with this!! I'm throwing a last-century party at my house, and all you big, strong provider men are invited 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Kitty Tantrum Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Yeah, actually, of the women I've known, the "strong, independent, empowered" variety have had THE highest standards/requirements for the men they date in terms of what they expect him to bring to the table financially. It's the exception rather than the rule to find a woman who is really comfortable establishing a relationship with a man of lesser means. "Last century's rulebook," perhaps - just goes to show that it takes more than a few decades of social engineering to subvert human nature. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 "Last century's rulebook," perhaps - just goes to show that it takes more than a few decades of social engineering to subvert human nature. Amen, sister. Natural biology is timeless. Link to post Share on other sites
Kitty Tantrum Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 To put it another way... Friend of mine: modern, independent, empowered professional woman with her own substantial income. Will split the check with you after an expensive dinner at a fancy restaurant... but might just throw a fit if you take her somewhere cheaper... and if you want to marry her she'll expect a $10k diamond ring, a huge expensive wedding, and for you to basically take over responsibility for providing her with the lifestyle she's established for herself, paying her existing student/consumer debts, etc. Expects all household chores to be split 50/50 forever and ever, even if she eventually quits her job to stay home. Me: traditional gal with no disposable income. Balks at being expected to split the check, but perfectly happy being treated to a $10 bowl of ramen every few weeks (and more than happy to cook the rest of the time). No expensive habits, no debt. Frugal. Happy with a tiny ring and a tiny wedding. Doesn't expect her man to lift a finger around the house if he's paying all the bills. Like I said, there's a LOT of variation. But looking at a woman's willingness/ability to split the check with you is not a reliable way to determine whether she's entitled, or how much she'll cost you in the long run. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
divegrl Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 In my perspective, men should pay for the dates. I don’t see anything wrong with these women’s behavior. Why not just go somewhere less expensive? A coffee shop or a picnic in the park with a bottle of wine? Have a beautiful day my friend. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 If I did that, it would be the closest thing to saying "I don't plan on seeing you again". I never had to deal with this before. The women I went on dates with simply offered. The simple act of offering was in and of itself a nice gesture. Now I feel they take it for granted. That's why it's bothering me. No clue why it's happening all of a sudden. Seems weird, and I also think it is rude. I don't think it's because of your two new shirts, though! I'd say bad luck/coincidence.... Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 But in the last couple months, that's all changed and I don't know why. How many women does that equate to? How do you meet them? I personally find it weird that a man should be expected to cover the bill for a complete stranger met online - online is not exactly a 'traditional' method of meeting people anyway, so it seems strange to accept modernity in some ways and reject it whenever it suits. But after that first meet, do whatever fits your views - there's no right or wrong on this, imo. If you prefer a woman split the bill after a certain number of dates (your prerogative), you are going to need to tell her straight, or find a way to figure out where she places on the traditional / modern spectrum by asking probing questions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Eh. I do think it's rude to not even offer to pay your share, especially if it was a first date with a stranger. He can decline, but she should always offer IMO. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
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