Is he over reacting?

[ExpatInItaly]

I also think he's trying to figure out what to say without cursing out the OP in the most profane language there is ... He's also quietly processing disappointment and a severe cut and sting of betrayal ...

 

Yes, I completely agree with this too.

 

I don't think he's trying to "punish" you, OP. I think he really is that angry that he doesn't want to spend time with you right now and is trying to work through his own feelings about all of this.

 

I'm sorry. I think this might indeed be the end.

[rachel1989]

Morning -

 

I don't believe he is trying to punish me, I thought about that a lot last night.

 

A few updates:

 

1). My mom came over, we talked a bit and she is totally on his side (she's always been more on anyone else's side but mine). She told me she raised me better than that and that she can understand why he's acting the way he is. My mom knows my bf is very analytical and processes things before acting.

 

2). When my bf came home, my mom said hello (they always get along well) and she asked him if they could talk. He said sure and they were talking for about an hour. I have no idea what was said, I want to ask but I didn't. I feel asking would betray his trust further. He talked with her more than he's spoken with me in days.

 

3) This morning was interesting. Almost like how it was in the beginning. He was up early cooking and I went into the kitchen and we jointly made breakfast together. It was awkward - he didn't say much and I didn't ask. I wanted him to simply know I was there. Quietly eating was strange tho.

 

4). At the end of breakfast he said, I have a sitter arranged for your daughter (he doesn't have his kids tonight) and that we would be going somewhere in the evening. I said "sounds good to me"

 

He got in the shower...normally he'd invite me... was hoping he would...he didn't. I did notice the computer was on in the study.....yes...I read the e-mail on his screen...I think most women would. There were two e-mails that got my attention... he sent one yesterday before my mom came over...to the babysitter we use asking her to come over tonight to watch my daughter - it was few a few hours not overnight. The second e-mail was from late last night....he has a reservation at a place we had our first date.

 

What does this mean?????

 

Is he:

 

A) Just wanting to talk and feeling nostalgic

B) Certainly he wouldn't go thru this effort if we were broken up... or is he going to really cement the break up?

 

It's very curious to me..and now sure how to act.

 

Perhaps he's ready to talk? Seems like a conversation that should happen at the house vs. a restaurant. I can't help but wonder if my mom had something to do with this.. the timing of the babysitter couldn't have been her... but the restaurant and such...the timing is suspect.

[Curiousroxy86]

rachel....keep your effing cool!

 

dont act

 

dont do a dag on thing

 

wait and see

 

your anxieties and rash actions and rushing and prodding and wanting to know the answer now is EXACTLY what got you in this mess so do the opposite. dont do anything. dont ask questions. just observe and listen for now. take your hands off the situation. This is the best thing YOU can do.

 

if you want this to work out with your guy do not push, do not put pressure, let things unfold...and of course come and report back here

Edited June 12, 2019 by Curiousroxy86

[lurker74]

The good news is that his anger is dissipating and it looks like he wants to stay. But be open and listen. The bad thing is that he has a lot of work to do on himself too. What you did was harmful, no doubt. And in that situation, I can't say I wouldn't pout a little like he has to make it clear how much you hurt me, but telling your daughter that "he hopes she and his kids can still be friends" is just as bad as your behavior.

 

Both of you need to learn to keep the kids out of your relationship. They share in the family unit but they are not the ones meant to carry the burden and you have BOTH burdened the children. Even he has burdened his sons by getting ice cream with them when they KNEW it would be excluding your daughter.

 

I would not go to couples counseling for long but if I were you, I'd find someone for you both to meet with to discuss JUST this episode because otherwise it's going to be too many eggshells to walk on.

[salparadise]

....he has a reservation at a place we had our first date.

 

It sounds like to me, which of course is just a guess, that he wants to try a reset, to get this behind you and give it another try. It wouldn't make sense to book the restaurant where you had the first date for the other reason.

 

You have to own it. No justifying, turning it around, or blaming circumstances.

 

To reiterate from my post earlier in the thread... what happened was NOT merely a poor choice of words. You went into attack mode, which I believe is actually a defensive mode for you because of your emotional predispositions. If you think you can fix this just by editing one page of the script, that would not be correct.

 

If he wants to try a reset tonight, that doesn't mean all is forgotten. Forgiven and forgotten are two very different things. You are going to have learn a new way of being to address the root of the issues rather than smoothing over symptoms. Since this was a reactionary incident, you must realize that these are your default behaviors under stress, and how quickly things can go off the rails.

 

You need to address the emotional predispositions that trigger the response. That is a long-term journey, not a quick fix. I also think you should get some help with how you and your daughter are interacting. Hope all goes well.

[Gaeta]

I also think the invitation to the restaurant is to make up.

 

 

 

I think YOU should seek counseling for your temper issues, and you should get parenting classes. I know you love your daughter but the way you handle your stress with her is destructive. If you love this man as much as you pretend then show him by seeking self improvement.

[BaileyB]

I think YOU should seek counseling for your temper issues, and you should get parenting classes. I know you love your daughter but the way you handle your stress with her is destructive. If you love this man as much as you pretend then show him by seeking self improvement.

 

I agree completely.

 

IF, he wants to try again... listen more than you talk. Again, offer him a sincere and humble apology. You don’t have to say much, but be sure that you mean what you say. And, show him that you plan to use this experience as a learning opportunity - seek counselling or a parenting class/how to blend your families - use this as an opportunity for growth, personal development, and strengthening your relationship/family.

 

Your daughters behaviour is perhaps a sign of your parenting skill and/or your own lack of self control/style of managing stress and conflict. It’s also a big red flag that you moved to fast and she is feeling threatened by this new relationship. Everyone needs to take a big strep back and focus on making this a happier, healthier home.

 

Good luck.

[kendahke]

I understand you're frantic for this whole episode to be over and done with so you can go back to how things were. However, you seriously need to slow your roll until after this evening is over.

 

You're assuming way too much on very little and innocuous evidence.

 

Don't get your hopes up yet. You have no idea what is going on in his head yet. He could very well be building a lovely scaffold for your relationship. The fact that he's still not allowing the sexy play with you says he's still very angry with you (otherwise, it would have been on in the shower this morning or if he couldn't because of time constraints, he'd have said so. He didn't.), but for right now, he's going along to get along for the sake of the household, presently.

 

I'm quite sure that one of the things messing with him is you going off on his boys like you did him or your daughter and he's not here for that. You can say whatever, but you've so far demonstrated to him that you don't handle stress well and you attack when you get to the event horizon.

My mom came over, we talked a bit and she is totally on his side (she's always been more on anyone else's side but mine). She told me she raised me better than that and that she can understand why he's acting the way he is

.

 

As far as him talking to your mother for an hour--slow down on that, too. Going from what you wrote about her, I wouldn't put any stock in it being for your good. He told your mother what he wants her to know and what he doesn't care gets back to you; just like she told him what she wants him to know and what she doesn't care gets back to you. If she's already judgemental towards you, she just got handed a whole lot more ammunition that she wouldn't have had had you kept your cool.

 

And you're right--most women would read his emails and then they have to live with the tearing between being honest with him that she did or keeping a huge secret while being addicted to further snooping because she can't get enough of that drug now.

[Versacehottie]

Ok, first and most important thing--along with almost everyone on this thread saying you were in the wrong, so did your mom. That's not because she isn't "on your side", it's the general frickin' consensus!!! Let's be real about that one!! Have you ever considered part of the reason why you're mom isn't "on your side" is because she knows you very well and sees some of your faults (little self-absorption possibly) that will hurt you in the long run and wants to make sure to bring you back to reality and considering others? I think she is on your side, just not backing up every bone-head move you do, and way you've treated others. Just saying.

 

As far as tonight. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. I'm thinking it's generally probably a good sign but not too good to speculate too much. If i were to guess though, i think he will lay down the law with you and then be willing to reset

 

I also think he won't do this more than once so you better get your end of things under control. Your temper, your words, your daughter. Good luck

[JuneL]

Such a thoughtful response, Versace. Just wanted to add: What are you going to do to make yourself a better partner and parent, if he does want to stay in the relationship?

[Versacehottie]

Yes I agree, if he gives you another chance you need a real plan in place for how you are going to work on your parenting and partnership. Not cross your fingers and hope. Because that likely won't work in the heat of the moment (which sounds like it's your problem). As a partner, I wouldn't accept the answer that "my job is stressful so i took it out on you in this way xyz" more than once in the way that you did take it out on him. His reaction to what you did sounds like he holds a similar position as me.

[JuneL]

Not just this, as Redhead pointed out, she didn’t seem to have awareness about her extremely hurtful question. Even if things don’t work out with him, you want to be a better partner for the next guy and a better parent to your child.

[Versacehottie]

Oh, actually rather than speculate about what he will say which is a passive and reactionary position, why not take the stance that presuming he is positive about your relationship i.e. willing to reset that you will need to have some strategies to present to him about how you will deal with your relationship, arguments, communication going forward. NOT what you want from him--what you are willing to do. This is the spirit of being remorseful and willing to change/work on yourself. Try this. This is showing someone you are conscious of your wrongdoing, prioritize the relationship, and realize your part in it --is to already be formulating a plan of how you are going to deal with YOURSELF going forward.

 

If he is analytical, he would probably appreciate this approach. It's shows growth and progress.

[Lotsgoingon]

Tons of wisdom in every one of the recent posts--following mom's intervention.

 

Mom saved you ... a great intervention ... But ... if I were bf's buddy, I would say he needs to hear an apology and genuine contrition from you before hitting reset. In my experience, if people don't contritely apologize, they will engage in the behavior again and again ... they'll just delay until the current crisis has passed.

 

But he has apparently opened the door to at least talking to you.

 

Gotta say: I don't like you snooping on his emails because it seems to reflect the same manipulative mindset has blocked you from apologizing. The same manipulative mindset that assumes that getting sexy and climbing into the shower with him ... heals anything.

 

You still seem to be all tactics sister--looking for any advantage--with no authentic feeling and compassion.

[rachel1989]

Just an update as requested....

 

Last night was really nice, a quick run down on events:

 

1) Babysitter arrived on time, my daughter did not want me to leave and what was to have been a quick exit took about 20 mins longer than I wanted. My boyfriend was calm about it and said he understood. He'd be outside once everything was ready. It's become really apparent to me from this thread and just from others that I'm really going to need to have a sit down and perhaps professional therapy to help ease my little one's mind. This is the second time she's had difficulty with me dating. To the question earlier in this post... this is my first time moving in with a boyfriend since I was divorced.

 

2) 20 minutes later, I leave the home and he's outside on the patio just relaxing...doesn't appear to have a care in the world and seems like he's not upset about the delay (thank god) he told me he understood and has been there with his kids.

 

3) We get to the restaurant but was about 20-25 mins late given given the difficulty getting out of the house on time. They gave away his reservations to someone else. Now he became visibly upset. He said to the manager he tried to call but the line was always busy... whether or not he called I don't know...he showed the manager his phone...I'm assuming to show the call attempts. Regardless, they couldn't/wouldnt accommodate. It appeared he had a front row seat next to the piano but they couldn't get us in at all now. I told my boyfriend it doesn't matter...lets go somewhere else. I suggested a wine bar and he said sure.

 

4) We get to the wine bar, another 20 mins or so away...and were promptly seated. He told me that he was hoping for a more quiet place to talk but this will work. Basically he said:

 

1). He's glad to have met me, that he believes I'm genuinely a good person but that he has concerns with my ability to manage stress. He reiterated several times that with his special needs son (downs) that patience is a prerequisite.

 

2). He admires the way we co-manage things together - he appreciates the help I provide and feels appreciated when I do things for him.

 

3). He has concerns over my ex boyfriend - I ask why on earth would he be a factor. He said check with my daughter. I didn't push the issue further but I did ask my daughter about it...she said she told him a long time ago that sometimes my ex boyfriend sends messages while she's watching videos on the phone. I said what messages - she said the ones where he's calling me baby, beautiful, etc. I told her, I don't ever respond to those..and she said she knows and told him that too. So I don't know what exactly my boyfriend heard..but I don't reply to my ex's inappropriate messages. I do text him but only as friends.

 

4). He's not willing to walk on eggshells nor will he tolerate any more flying off the handle. He wants to do some kind of blended family counseling. I told him, absolutely - lets do it. I can do some calling around and he said that would be great.

 

5). He doesn't want to be intimate until he feels more secure in the relationship. This one hurt me... I just nodded my head. I don't want to feel like roommates but I don't have a choice. I asked some female friends this morning - they don't get this. I don't get it either - they put a thought into my head that's bothering me... what if he doesn't want me...but doesn't want to lose me kind of thing.

 

6). At the end of the night he pays, in the car on the 40 min drive home..he holds my hand and says he's glad we talked (he mainly talked but ok). I told him I appreciated the evening and I became emotional and told him what an idiot I was that evening and that I'll work on myself even during the counseling he wants to do. He said that sounds like a plan and that he always wants to talk to someone individually. I don't know if its the wine or what..but he said, after his divorce it was hard for him to open up again and be vulernable. He opened up to me and it bit him (his words) and he knows people make mistakes but he just needs to reconcile everything in his head.

 

7). We get to the house, he's holding me and looking into my eyes and I lean in to kiss him and he pulls back. He laid with me in the same bed for the first time in about a week but he did not get into his comfy clothes nor did he get under the sheets.

 

8). This morning was more normal but he still did not take my daughter to the camp.

 

So TLDR, we had dinner, he aired out some deep thoughts, apparently wants to think further but doesn't want to end things. He wants group couseling and for us to have individual sessions. I'll be calling this week and hope we can go soon.

[JuneL]

Why have you not blocked your ex-boyfriend? Again, you don’t seem to have awareness about his concern.

[lurker74]

Well, that's not ideal. First of all, block your ex boyfriend immediately. You should have long ago. Of course your daughter has issues with you dating...in her formative mind, you have two men after you. That's not the example you want to show.

 

And his not wanting to be intimate is troubling. It's OK for a couple of days but his response reeks of a grab for power. Be very careful here. You screwed up - multiple times - but that shouldn't be a reason for you to give up all equality in the relationship. Withholding sex is often used for power reasons. It's one thing to hold off for a bit because you're upset but quite another to tell your partner that it's a no until s/he does X.

 

Time for counseling.

[OatsAndHall]

So... Your ex boyfriend messages your DAUGHTER with inappropriate comments about you and you're still in touch with him "as friends"? I have absolutely no idea why you would do that but I suggest you cut off contact with him if you want to keep things going with your current bf.

 

 

Things are stressful enough between the two of you at this point without you having contact with a guy who reaches out to you through your daughter... To make matters worse, she is passing on this information to your current bf.

[BaileyB]

Rachel, you really need to get yourself and your daughter some counselling. It’s totally inappropriate for your daughter to know information that is shared between yourself and your ex. And, it’s totally inappropriate for both of you to ask her about it - to bring her into your relationship. She is a young child.

 

Good luck with the counselling. I hope you grow from this experience and create a healthier home, either in this relationship or your next relationship.

[JuneL]

I think she meant the daughter was using her phone to watch videos? How old is she?

[BaileyB]

And his not wanting to be intimate is troubling. It's OK for a couple of days but his response reeks of a grab for power.

 

His response demonstrates a mature and intelligent man who wants to make a clear decision about the future of his relationship, without his head clouded by sex.

 

Let’s just say, her go-to fix it is sex. I’m sure he knows this. Perhaps, he doesn’t want to be manipulated or influenced by emotion when making a major life decision that will determine the future for him and his children.

 

Good on him. Smart man.

Edited June 13, 2019 by BaileyB

[OatsAndHall]

^^^^ Agreed.

 

 

Nothing muddies the waters in a strained relationship quite like sex. And, honestly, he might still be upset enough that he doesn't want to sleep with her.

[OatsAndHall]

I think she meant the daughter was using her phone to watch videos? How old is she?

 

 

Yes, I misread the post. Regardless, the OP is in contact with an ex boyfriend who apparently has a whole lot more than being "friends" on his mind if he's flirting with her. Her and her bf have a lot of hard fixes in front of them if they want to get their relationship back on track. Cutting off contact with the ex isn't one of them.

[Flame Aura]

His response demonstrates a mature and intelligent man who wants to make a clear decision about the future of his relationship, without his head clouded by sex.

 

Let’s just say, her go-to fix it is sex. I’m sure he knows this. Perhaps, he doesn’t want to be manipulated or influenced by emotion when making a major life decision that will determine the future for him and his children.

 

Good on him. Smart man.

Completely agree. OP, I can also see why you would think negatively about this, ie. he doesn't want you, but try to see it positively, he wants a solid foundation first, which is a good thing.

 

 

About the ex boyfriend, is he the father of your daughter? If not then you have no reason to still be in contact with him at all, even as 'friends'.

[Curiousroxy86]

block your ex boyfriend

 

and stop trying to come onto your current boyfriend romantically for now. let him come to you with being affectionate/sex until things are back to normal please

 

you have to show your boyfriend that you respect him because I feel like that is the deep inner issue of the problems (accusatory statement in public, conflict with the daughter, ex boyfriends messages, when he is shut down you trying to kiss him have sex with him, trying to get him to talk to you when he dont feel like it). you have to turn that around with not only him but with any guy you are with.

 

I will say this however on the let him initiate affection/sex...

 

have a reasonable timeline on how much time to give him to come around if that is important to you. after that time is up your going to have to say something. I would recommend saying "honey I understand that you may not feel as affectionate towards me like you use to. I respect that. however affection is very important to me in a relationship. is this something we can work on?". only after its been a reasonable time mind you that you give him to come around to you. get his honest answer. if he is still on some im not ready and I dont know how I feel about you or I dont know if I can be affectionate towards you then rachel you have a decision to make at that time. you have to accept the way he is or leave. if he still dont want to touch you then you may have to consider letting the relationship go because then it wouldnt be fair trying to do everything to make this relationship work and he still cant bring himself to give affection. again if thats important to you (it would be to me). he needs to let you go if its that bad for him or he really feels that off about you. I guess if I put myself in the same bad situation as you I can see myself giving the guy a month to come around. but after that? byeeeeeeee