guest569 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Panera is different than Subway (), Panera is more upscale with higher prices and a more varied menu. The inside of Paneras is also nicer than Subway but it depends on the particular store come on, it's not a huge step up. It's subway meets soup kitchen and puts a higher price tag. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I would take a beta man any day . I find it adorable when a man is a bit shy and indecisive. As long as he initiates contact and makes it clear that he is into me. I always laugh at PUA forums, everything they advise men to do is exactly everything I hate in men.
guest569 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I would take a beta man any day . I find it adorable when a man is a bit shy and indecisive. As long as he initiates contact and makes it clear that he is into me. I always laugh at PUA forums, everything they advise men to do is exactly everything I hate in men. Oh totally, I love a shy, quiet type of guy, bit awkward, that's endearing. But at the same time, I'm not going to steer everything. Maybe I just went to a really bad Panera..
Lotsgoingon Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Frankly, you go to where your budget allows. The food at Panera's is healthier than a lot of places. I mean, it is extremely family-oriented--the one near me. There are hipper places for sure. A bar at happy hour would be more loose, more sexy, more forward. But depends ... I tend to think you can notice energy and chemistry anywhere.
Morello Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 One thing I got from the beta/alpha discussion is that women are not always truly aware of what they're attracted to. Not all women like the same kind of guy but I have indeed seen girls talking about how they value gentle, sensitive guys but they end up dumping them for this very same reason (even though they won't admit, even to themselves). People like to think they have a real choice in what they are attracted to but this is hardly the case. Also, there's a thin line between a guy in touch with his emotions and a guy who is overly sensitive and emotionally weak and vulnerable. As a male, being vulnerable to a woman will hardly work. Maybe it works one day but if we keep being like that the attraction will surely go away. Having said that, I think the alpha/beta thing is just a very generic representation of what each of us think about strenght, leadership, dominance, etc. These will mean different things for different people. But most women WILL be more attracted to the strongest guys, either physically, emotionally or both. Whether they act upon it is a different story as they might very well get rejected for these guys who will probably be looking for the most attractive girls around. We are way more primitive than we think we are. Our brains haven't evolved that much since caveman period.
alphamale Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Having said that, I think the alpha/beta thing is just a very generic representation of what each of us think about strenght, leadership, dominance, etc. These will mean different things for different people. But most women WILL be more attracted to the strongest guys, either physically, emotionally or both. Whether they act upon it is a different story as they might very well get rejected for these guys who will probably be looking for the most attractive girls around. I like to call it the alpha-beta spectrum 1
alphamale Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 A bar at happy hour would be more loose, more sexy, more forward. and have more alcoholics 2
Gretchen12 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I've never been to Panera, and I'm not really sure what this alpha male means. But just reading this thread makes me think Panera Bread must be some sort of beta of sandwich shops... and soup is involved here.
basil67 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I have indeed seen girls talking about how they value gentle, sensitive guys but they end up dumping them for this very same reason (even though they won't admit, even to themselves). If they won't admit this is the reason, how do you know it? Some special mind reading abilities? Or just assumption....
frus69 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I have indeed seen girls talking about how they value gentle, sensitive guys but they end up dumping them for this very same reason . guys cant seem to be able to see the difference between "gentle and sensitive" and "weak and low self esteem". Often times guys definition of a "nice guy" really is a "weak guy" 1
basil67 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I thought alpha is used to describe men who are assertive,dominant,leader sort of guy and beta is men who are more emotional, sensitive, maybe submissive. A person can't be both assertive and dominant. An assertive person does their best to meet the needs of everyone. But a dominant person will not care about the needs of others as long as their own needs get met. The assertive person is also sensitive - because sensitivity is a necessary trait for assertiveness. My husband is assertive at work and is at the top of his field. He gets things done. He is not dominant. Nor is he submissive. He is happy to let me sort out issues and never notices if the car needs servicing. He's sensitive to the needs of those around him. He understands his own emotions but never talks about them. He would never bother with a woman who makes him jump through hoops and wouldn't bother with a woman who was happy to unquestioningly follow his lead. Alpha or Beta?
basil67 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 guys cant seem to be able to see the difference between "gentle and sensitive" and "weak and low self esteem". Often times guys definition of a "nice guy" really is a "weak guy" Or men talk about men being 'feminised'. I don't even know what this means. 1
PRW Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 but his head hair looked like it was dyed rather than naturally like that. It looked a bit strange to me. I've seen men who have dyed hair to cover up grey, but this looked kind of strange.We think the same thing about women, such as bleach-blond, purple, blue, green, and whatever color isn't naturally theirs. 2) Coffee - and he didn't pay for me. Strike 1.It is only coffee. 3) Sitting down - I went into the dining area and he didn't say "Let's sit here", I kind of took the lead and went to the first seat that was free. He followed. Tells me he's passive.Yes he is probably passive, but him not leading to the table isn't how I would determine that. 4) Conversation - He was, I quickly realized, rather passive. He was not so awkward that I was constantly jabbering at a brick wall but he seemed kind of laid back to such a point that he was letting me take the lead in the conversation at first. We were able to sit for two hours talking about stuff but I was leading most of it.He is supposed to let the woman do most of the talking. What you are supposed to look for is him giving a little feedback along the way that shows he was paying attention. 5) Closing - It's two hours later, he didn't text anything to close it. 48 Hours and counting...Waiting 2-3 days to contact you is exactly what he should do. But when he does contact you he needs to set the next date rather the "visit" or try to "get to know you" via texting or phone calls. I doubt I will hear from him again, he was a beta and won't take charge of the situation.There wasn't much of a situation to take charge of. 1
PRW Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I can't recall women saying they've bagged an Alpha, but I do see the Beta comments. Interestingly, most frequently by women who are having trouble attracting a man. Coincidence or not?Not a coincidence. Women who have trouble attracting men tend to draw the more Beta type guys, while the Alphas know they can do better and avoid such women (there is a reason they have trouble attracting men, right?),...the Alphas aren't in a "needy" state, or as some might put it,...they don't have a "scarcity mindset". As far as the Alpha -vs- Beta terms as being batted around in the thread,...the definitions can get perverted a lot. An Alpha is nothing more than an extroverted person who asserts themselves and shows leadership skills. The Beta is just passive and is a natural "follower". The definitions don't need to be any more complicated than that. But these two are not the only possibilities. Omega, which doesn't get attention, is basically the Introvert equivalent of an Alpha. Alpha/Beta is also dynamic with the environment. A guy can be very Alpha at work and be very Beta in other situations. Out of the 5 personality types: 1. Alpha 2. Omega 3. Beta 4. Gamma 5. Sigma ...I think the Beta is more learned behavor from how they grew up, So it can be untaught if the person truly wants to change. The Alpha and the Omega would be the two main "healthy" types that reflect the Extrovert -vs- Introvert comparison.
basil67 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 PRW, based on your description, hubby is an Alpha at work and a Beta when dating....unless there's something he doesn't like and then he'll stand his ground. How does this work?
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 If they won't admit this is the reason, how do you know it? Some special mind reading abilities? Or just assumption.... Exactly. I find this argument borderline bullying. My ex used to always tell me "I know you better than you know yourself". He couldn't have been more wrong. At my age, I know what I like. And it's a bit shy, sensitive, kind man. I can't speak for other women. 1
basil67 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 ES, I've got a whole lot of words for it. Undateable is one of them. 1
some_username1 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Alpha and Beta are just the words to describe two different types of men, why get so butt hurt over it? Some women like alpha male and some like beta. Although from OP's description I dont know if he's beta, but rather he is kind of cheap and also not very into her. Because it’s binary. Imagine only using the words ‘fat’ or ‘thin’ to describe women- fat is quite a negative description even though a woman might not be at the extreme end of the fat scale and have positive qualities that offset her weight. It’s the same with beta which strongly suggests weakness of character when there are other associated beta traits (quiet, introspective) that could be considered quite positive but are lumped in with the negative ones. So you really shouldn’t categorise either gender using a binary categorising system where one descriptor is overwhelmingly positive and the other is overwhelmingly negative (if you like you can prove me wrong by trying to find a post where a woman enthusiastically describes how her boyfriend’s ‘beta’ qualities are a real turn on. Spoiler alert: there isn’t one ) 1
Flame Aura Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Interesting thread with all the alpha/beta and Panera bread opinions.. Back on topic though I think OP still hasn't realised that the 'perfect' person does not exist. 1
Redhead14 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) That's your opinion. It is not a universal fact. A 'first meet' then, to see if she is a fatty in disguise, as you put it. Doesn't mean you have to go to some lame chain that is half a step up from Subway. I didn't mention anywhere that a 'first meet' (aka date) should be a 5 star restaurant. I did not mention money anywhere. However, I had forgotten that USA don't actually have nice cafes or coffee. So maybe I'm wrong. How about Shake Shack? Yeah, it's opinion. It's also conventional wisdom and a little bit of common sense. From OLD, the risk of being hoodwinked is significant. A 'first meet' then, to see if she is a fatty in disguise, as you put it. I never said that. It's just making sure the picture matches the person. People use fake pictures all the time. It's not just about women. Men do it too. (I am a woman by the way). I am safety conscious at all times. Meet in a public place, go in your own car (never give your address or have them pick you up, leave after they leave/don't allow them to walk you to your car. You simply do not know "who" you are meeting. I don't care how long you've been "chatting" with over the internet PERIOD or what kind of great vibes you're getting. Scammers are plentiful. Men should be cautious as well. Edited June 10, 2019 by Redhead14
elaine567 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 The poor guy didn't stand a chance here. He was not conventionally good looking, his hair was "weird" and he was binned forthwith, all the rest was pure justification for doing it. OR he didn't contact the OP after the date and the "justification" was retrospective... I hate all this alpha/beta nonsense. Let a tiger loose in the restaurant, then you will see who the real alphas are... 2
MaleIntuition Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Alpha and Beta are just the words to describe two different types of men, why get so butt hurt over it? Some women like alpha male and some like beta. Although from OP's description I dont know if he's beta, but rather he is kind of cheap and also not very into her. Hell no. They don’t describe jack **** and this is why it’s pissing me off: Beta is never used to describe positive personality traits but is exclusively used in an insulting way to attack mens masculinity. It’s commonly used online, more often than not, by people whom are looking for simple explanations to complex things such as personality theory and or social hierarchies. Furthermore it’s often used in the most ridiculous mundane situation, like in this thread. Do you really think choosing a freaking table display leadership? I mean..? Seriously? And furthermore are we whom doesn’t care about such decisions less masculine? Less men because we can put other need before - or on equal terms as ours? Because that’s precisely what you say when you classify certain behaviours as alpha and others as beta. Not only are we dumbing down personality theory to useless binary BS, but we are also promoting a narrow view of what’s manly and masculine.
fishlips Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 I don't see the big deal about going to Panera. It's a place to get coffee, and plenty of people do coffee dates when meeting an online date for the first time. You get an easy way out if there is no chemistry, and if there is...well, you can go somewhere else afterward. OP, if he bowed out after the coffee, then I'd say he either wasn't interested or you gave off vibes that you weren't interested. It wouldn't hurt to text him and say you had a good time if you do want to see him again, but don't hold your breath. Next time, don't get fixated on the "alpha" and "beta" crap. You can't know that much about a guy the first time you meet him. Just keep it light and fun, and if doesn't work out, well on to the next guy. 1
Curiousroxy86 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 When a guy suggest a date that doesn’t encourage “romance” like a coffee date or a sandwich shop where it would be weird to dress sexy for I would simply give a counter offer that’s still “date zero” assuming that’s what he was going for but still sets the tone for a romantic ambiance. “I would love to go out with you. Would you be willing to meet at (pick a nicer place of choice) for drinks instead?” Most men would not say no And this is a better setting to encourage a mans masculinity Like who has the desire to flirt and kiss at Panera’s 3
oceanblue12 Posted June 10, 2019 Posted June 10, 2019 Was it a date or simply a meet/greet? I do think that there is a marked difference. I agree that he should have PAID. It is a common courtesy and denotes nothing other than that.
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