Happy Lemming Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 ...go out of their way to find 'dates', it is with a relationship in mind. You can have a long term relationship without living together or getting married. I am pointing that out to the OP, as well. How do we know what his "end goal" is (when dating)??
littleblackheart Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) We don't know. That's why I said I assumed. How is being exclusive with someone even when you don't live with them or aren't married to them not a relationship? Are you 'fwb'? Do you not consider her your girlfriend? Sounds like you are contradicting yourself here... ETA: I'm not looking for an argument (thought I'd add that) - if you're happy with the 'dating forever' arrangement you have with your partner, good for you. I'm just replying to the OP. Edited June 5, 2019 by littleblackheart
JuneL Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 And where are these over 40 women that pick up the check. I've been dating all of my life and never has a woman picked up a check or planned a date or paid for even a movie ticket. I've dated all aged women, including into their 50's. These women may have their own money, but they are keeping a tight grip on it. Where did you find all these high maintenance women? 1
introverted1 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 ----------------- And where are these over 40 women that pick up the check. Over 50 woman here. The guy I am currently dating is between jobs so I am paying for all our dates. I expect a more even distribution once he lands a job, but this is fine for now. Regardless who pays, I've always been a fan of lower key outings -- a walk through a historic town and late lunch (typically much less expensive than dinner), sharing a bottle of wine on the deck or while watching a comedy special, a picnic at the park or beach, and afternoon at a museum. I'm not interested in being or dating a wallet, and I can't imagine I'm the only one.
Ruby Slippers Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 It's not necessary to insult egalitarian women in order to justify your own sense of entitlement. It's basic biology. I've never asked a man to pay for anything, never would. They offer, cheerfully, have always let me know they'd feel like a loser letting the woman pay. Anyway, there's no point arguing this matter. When it comes to dating, mating, and finances, you have the progressives and the traditionalists, and extremely few will ever change their point of view. 1
preraph Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Spend that $300 a month doing things you like and maybe try to meet someone who shares those interests? In a similar line of thinking, go to dates at places you like and consider that roughly half the money you are spending on 'yourself' not the 'the date'. If you are budget minded get yourself a tap water or tap beer instead of fancy drinks, caesar salad instead of surf 'n' turf, etc. And if they suggest fancy (read expensive) restaurant for 1st date - go ahead and take a pass on that. Good points, Orokotikki! I guess his problem is he'd rather not go to places that cost money like you need to do on at least some dates. That's not his lifestyle. It's going to limit his dating, but if he meets someone through doing the things he's interested in doing anyway, maybe it will work out. And yes, you can usually find something less expensive on the menu and it's something men have done, especially young men, as long as I can remember. They expect the worst, that their date will order the most expensive thing (which is rude and in my opinion, shouldn't get a second date) and they order inexpensive. You can do that and still eat well. There's a restaurant that's convenient to where I live that I used to love to go to until their prices went through the roof and I just had to quit going. They never published their menu pricing online, but then just this week, I noticed they finally did publish their pricing -- and they had made a couple of changes, one of which was instead of only offering a ridiculously expensive order of steak nachos for $16 (highest in town), they were now offering a "half-order" of 8 for $8, which his plenty, so now I can go there and just get their nachos which are better than some places. So it's too expensive for a TexMex place in general, but at least if you took a date there, you could order the half nachos, eat half of them yourself and let her have a couple and then she could still order her main course, say $18, and it would be $26 plus drinks. But drinks is where you run the bill up anywhere, sometimes even ordering tea. I hate that. So there's ways, but to know those ways, it needs to be your lifestyle so you know what's on the menu different favorite places and what it costs. If I was going on a first date, I'd take the guy to this one upscale taco place. It's very modern, but it has cheaper ways to eat. Normally I hate a place that doesn't give you free chips and salsa, but this place you have to buy it; however, it's well worth the price because you get your choice of three of their nine salsas, all delicious, like avocado cream, zucchini jalapeno, etc. and their chips are not typical but are hand cut rectangular strips that are really crunch. Me and a friend can go there and just order that $4 and share it and still be satisfied. Usually I will get a lone taco to go with it, or some street corn, another $3-4. I almost always stay under $10 and it's excellent food. On Sundays, they give you free baked goods. Point is, OP, you have to be going out to eat to know where to find these good deals. There's a family owned Italian place near me where everything is about $7-8 except for a seafood pasta dish, and it's good with good rolls. There are a half dozen more Italian places within driving distance, but they are all at least 30% more expensive and most aren't even as good. So take some time to scout out where you can eat well on a budget. Edited June 5, 2019 by preraph
Lotsgoingon Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Definitely good move to go on cheaper dates ... especially first dates ... No reason a first day has to be a lot of money ... drinks ... coffee ... short meeting ... to see if you want to go to the next step ... Going some place fancy doesn't ignite any special energy ... And you don't wanna go to a place too good ... might get you in the mood with someone based on the establishment ... not on them! As for the man having responsibility ... seriously, every woman I've dated ... has insisted on paying 50-50 once we were past the first or so meetup ... Seriously every one ... and this is without my initiating a conversation. I agree ... reading some women's online profiles and interests in traveling ... and theater and all that ... can be quite intimidating for us modestly paid folks ... We read the profile and think, "Ain't got enough money for her." But F it! ... If you got modest income, own it ... screen out those folks who need people to be richer. If I'm spending $500 a month on dating (discovery meetup dating), then frankly, I'm doing something wrong. Spending more money on a date has never led to better results in my case.
Happy Lemming Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Where did you find all these high maintenance women? Just in "real life"... Although, I never really considered them "high maintenance"; paying for the dates/activities has just been the norm. Again, never had a woman reach for the check and say "My treat, tonight." They'll just let the check lay there until I pick it up and pay the wait staff. Same with activities or trips, etc. Never even had one say, "hey let me chip in for half of that 'whatever' - insert expense associated with activity". I'm just saying it just never happened to me, if there are other guys where the woman has picked up the check, they can certainly "chime in", I can only speak for me and my experiences. Kind of reminds me of a funny story... I was dating this woman and she told me she wanted to meet me for coffee after work. This was odd, but I said "OK", we both got there about the same time and she told me to get her some girly fru-fru coffee and I got a cup of black coffee. Then we sat down and I asked her what was up and she broke up with me. As I was leaving I thought "Geeze, I just paid for my own breakup brew"... kind of like sharpening the ax the executioner will use to cut off your head. 1
Happy Lemming Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Over 50 woman here. The guy I am currently dating is between jobs so I am paying for all our dates. Most people lose their job from time to time. Without income, unemployment only goes so far. So in that circumstance, your choices are to pay, both sit at home or breakup with him. I do remember one job I lost, laid off at 5:00pm, called girlfriend at 6:00pm to tell her of layoff, dumped by girlfriend at 6:01pm.
Happy Lemming Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 How is being exclusive with someone even when you don't live with them or aren't married to them not a relationship? Are you 'fwb'? Do you not consider her your girlfriend? I'm afraid I'm a bit confused by your post. There are plenty of couples that are "Exclusive" and don't live together nor intend on ever getting married. Neither my girlfriend nor I want to get married. She is divorced and never wants to re-marry and I never wanted to get married. I don't want to live with anyone, either. I think her opinion on that matter is different. Either way "exclusive" means nothing, I've been engaged to a woman and she "monkey-branched" to a new guy while wearing my ring. So much for being "exclusive".
Author supersteelman Posted June 6, 2019 Author Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) Definitely, "women" and "dating" will not change and I don't think you'll find a woman who would agree to just come to your house and have sex right away, without you springing for a slice of pizza first. That's too bad so sad. cmon now. dont assume all guys are the same. for me, I want something for the heart and a LTR. im not about sex and go. if I was an ahole, I could easily just switch my profile to "want kids" and be with a different woman every week. @Happy Lemming. youre a smart guy. you know exactly whats up. theres no cheap dating with women. it doesnt happen. women also judge you for being trying to squeeze a cent on dates. and like your situation women rarely offer. "Multiply that by 4 and you are well over $300 - $400/month." youre mirroring me exactly. to the ones here who talk about cheapening out for pizza and such, that doesnt work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @clia I would not have done these activities had I not been in a relationship, so that thinking isnt accurate. spending only half that on myself isnt exactly a proper calculation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I dont "date" I have long term relationships. the recent one I just broke up with was 7 years. I live overseas and things are expensive here, so figure were talking about 15% more then what it would cost in the US. and im not stingy or cant afford it. im just a bit tight with money ATM. this doesnt change the fact that dating is expensive. the older 40+ women who are divorced want a guy for fun and living it up. she doesnt want a 2nd husband who wants to watch a movie at home and order pizza delivery. I love companionship. and even need it but im happy when I see I have so much money left at the end of the month. actually, another problem altogether was that when I was making money (more then my current situation) it kinda has an effect on me to want to make more money, work more and that has a negative effect with the women. she gets pissed and senses this and uses psychological warfare on me with "you dont care about me anymore" which then forces me to slow down, get less money and spend more money on the lady. I remember this with the ex wife. when we were in the beginning, I was very hungry to make money and would work 2 jobs and had my life running super smooth. we didnt have cell phones at the time and I got ambushed by her when id go out to my bike to goto work. she nagged me so much that I wound up slowing down with work and even working out. in an optimal situation, id like to work a lot and make money and have my partner be patient and wait till I wanted to date, but life doesnt allow that and she needs her consistent "going out" . and be aware its mostly(not always) the women that want to go and have a fantastic going out experience. when I go out, its knowing that shes going to enjoy it and tick off the "we went out" box. im not the one who "drives" the going out. im not thinking about geting dressed up and looking classy sitting at a sushi restaurant drinking wine. thats only the women. I enjoy it while im there, but when im going out im also calculating how much this will cost. and every guy does. ask any guy if hed be happy to cut his expenses to half and have the woman happy and he will say hell yes. and this will offend and sound horrible but is the very rough calculation of what this is all about P**** costs money. if youre dating, or have a GF/partner or wife, it costs money Edited June 6, 2019 by supersteelman
Juha Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I’m a woman and I’m with you on that one... dating is expensive, period. Every single date I’ve been on I offered to pay for the meal (or at least my half) and I always insist on paying on the 2nd or 3rd date. I personally think that men don’t have to always pay for everything... they’re not ATM machines. I go on a date to have a good time and get to know someone, not get a free meal. You are definitely in the minority in what you just stated. There are far too many princesses that expect the man to pay for everything and think they deserve to be treated to meals and activities without contributing. A woman insisting on paying on the 2nd or 3rd date is an anomaly. A unicorn! Far too many women just go out with a guy for the free meal or night out not having any interest in him at all.
Juha Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Also when I lived in Brazil, I paid all the time and did not mind it as the women there were very appreciative and treated the man better and with more respect than women in the U.S. Here, I run into so many princesses who expect you to pay, never offer to pay, and are not appreciative.
littleblackheart Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I'm afraid I'm a bit confused by your post. Allow me to clarify: My point (a general point): most people date with the idea that it will lead to a relationship. Besides, these kinds of expenses are a good indicator of the life change that comes with living as part of a couple anyway. Your point (strictly about yourself): Who said anything about "living as part of a couple"?? I never want to live with a woman again, made that mistake and won't repeat it. Living apart o together, getting married or not, having kids or not = still living as a couple; you don't need to live under the same roof to live as a couple / consider yourself a couple in a relationship. So you are not contradicting my point at all. Your experience proves my point perfectly; you find random women 'from just real life', not one of whom ever offered to pay on dates even once (not usual at all, btw), you date them for an extensive period of time (so you still pay for every date?) = of course it's expensive, as I said in a previous post. Dating forever also allows not to invest too much other than money and to keep the option to bail at a moment's notice so it has its benefits. For those who don't want to date forever and are looking for an actual lasting relationship of equals, dating is only the first 'getting to know' phase. That phase doesn't need to be expensive when planned well (it only is when you date multiple women at the same time, indiscriminately and often). I hope this is clearer.
elaine567 Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Enigma makes a good point, he is doing stuff he wants to do and taking a woman along is a bonus. He gets to have a nice time doing enjoyable stuff, and is not counting every penny. NOT "OMG what a pain, I will HAVE to sit and eat a full formal dinner and it is going to cost me a fortune too..." I would much rather sit and eat pizza with some interesting guy who is relaxed than sit and eat steak with an uptight guy who is preoccupied and worried sick about being able to pay the bill. 1
salparadise Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I’m a woman and I’m with you on that one... dating is expensive, period. Every single date I’ve been on I offered to pay for the meal (or at least my half) and I always insist on paying on the 2nd or 3rd date. I personally think that men don’t have to always pay for everything... they’re not ATM machines. I go on a date to have a good time and get to know someone, not get a free meal. Thanks for posting. Women need to hear other women expressing balanced, realistic attitudes. If it's only men it will sound to some like the motivation is coming from the wrong place. It's about the larger perspective, not only the costs of the first few dates. It is basically indicative of whether the intent is partnership or dependency. Partners share. I have been dating a "progressive" woman lately.. In my experience, the progressive types won't offer to pay any more than a traditional lady will. They might chip in here and there but dudes are still paying. That progressiveness doesn't extend to dating. Yea, that can happen I guess. Chances are she's not actually progressive, she just likes the image and plays it like a scripted role... until the check comes, and then she improvises. You might have a closet Trumpette on your hands there.
salparadise Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I wish! She is an unabashed socialist. It came up on the first date. I actually voted for Trump and told her as much when she started talking politics. I thought that would be the end of the date but, oddly enough, she is the 2nd socialist I have met this last month that is really into me...and neither one of them was trying to pick up the tab. Can't really say I blame either of them. When women are used to guys paying for pretty much everything, why would they buck the system? And why would they wanna pay for a date with one dude when there are 10 others fighting for the chance to pay for them? It's just how it is. Yes I know you're a Trump conservative –– I am also surprised that this difference isn't seen as a major incompatibility by her, and by you. Of course it's more understandable on your side... since Trump won you don't have to taste the bitter pill... and as a man you can worry about philosophical compatibility later and focus on physical priorities. Put first things first, as Stephen Covey says. Most progressives would say that allowing you to pay is logically and philosophically inconsistent, but she did chip in a bit and that may have been enough to resolve her dissonance If you think of it as a Gestalt kind of thing, there is a gap in the circle, and it seems she's okay with that since there is a direct benefit to her in not closing it completely. It will be interesting to see how this goes!
littleblackheart Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Do you have rules for what all 'progressives' and 'conservatives' ought to think or do at all times? In OP's situation, not sure it's a political thing - more like a circumstancial problem that makes him a little self-aware about 'dating' because of his current financial situation. So for him at the moment, he needs to either plan inexpensive dates that reflect his personal circumstances or wait until his situation / confidence improves. I don't personally understand the social rule that says it's ok to have a complete random stranger pay for you; for me all 'first meets' with strangers should be split on principle regardless of gender by default, unless someone insists on covering the bill. After that first meet (or when people know each other already from being in the same social or professional circle), they can do whatever works for them. Common sense also says that if you are in a delicate financial situation and are very self-conscious about it (like OP appears to be), you are not offering your best self to your 'dating' prospects anyway.
JuneL Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I wonder what term is used to describe guys who mooch off of their partners, matriarchal? Learning something new today...so female Trump supporters are entitled to be paid for all the their dating expenses?
OatsAndHall Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I avoid the "gender war" discussions but I do think there is a valid point here. A woman who wants to tout progressive views on a date probably shouldn't be hesitant to go Dutch or pick up the check. On the flip side of the coin, a guy who is claiming to be a conservative traditionalist should be more than happy to pay for the date(s). 1
JuneL Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 And self-proclaimed progressive men shouldn’t reject women who are fat, not looking feminine, and never wear dresses/skirts?
salparadise Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) Do you have rules for what all 'progressives' and 'conservatives' ought to think or do at all times? Who, me? Nah, I don't make the rules. However I do evaluate characteristics and patterns of behavior, many of which can be categorically defining. If someone points to a furry little vertebrate and say, "this here is a dog," but I observe that it has sharp claws, climbs trees, and doesn't bark, then I might question the accuracy of that classification. I don't personally understand the social rule that says it's ok to have a complete random stranger pay for you; for me all 'first meets' with strangers should be split on principle regardless of gender by default...I agree ^. I accept that there are many "traditionalists" who are diametrically opposed, believing instead that women should never have to pay for a meal or anything else, and that any man who expresses interest in breeding her should be picking up the tab. As for OP, I think he just needs to choose prospects carefully and plan dates that don't cost much. There's no real reason to believe that one has to be flush with cash to enjoy the company of another person, even if they are the opposite gender. Edited June 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator a bit much
Lotsgoingon Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 I agree that if you are paying a lot of money for dating, you are doing it wrong. One, first dates do NOT have to be expensive ... and in fact, the dates I've gone on where I've paid a lot of money, I was performing, not really being myself and the dates went nowhere. A good date reflects who you are as an individual at that time in your life. If your finances are modest, you want the date to be affordable ... because in the long term, that's how you are going to roll, given your modest finances. But asking someone out to an affordable evening does take some guts and courage. I once when on a date when I had not a dime in my pocket ... because the ATM machine ate my card ... She picked up everything. I had some fantastic dates with a woman where we walked through the city (holding hands)... nearly all-night long. A woman who is sharp (and thus the type I want to date) will figure out your financial status really fast. It's foolish to try to hide that. 1
Happy Lemming Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Living apart o together, getting married or not, having kids or not = still living as a couple; you don't need to live under the same roof to live as a couple / consider yourself a couple in a relationship. I hope this is clearer. Thank you for the clarification... I misread "living as a couple" to mean "Living together as a couple". My bad... If you mean do I go out in public and portray my girlfriend & I as a "happy couple" to friends and family, the answer is "Yes". As far as "bailing" or getting out of the relationship, that option is available to both of us. If she finds someone more compatible, she can easily leave the relationship, as well. 1
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