Els Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) The small team that I manage is amazing. They really think about everything they do and put the team first. For instance, they will speak up if they think that doing something additional, or in a a different way, would benefit us. If we all agree, they will go the extra mile to do it, even though they could have just shut up and done what they were told to do and effectively done less work. (We are all paid monthly, not hourly, so there is no allocation for overtime) If I was the kind of manager to faff around about Sally looking at her phone or Harry leaving an hour early because he is ill, this would never happen. Everyone would be doing precisely what they are paid to do and not an iota more. Nobody would be coming up with novel suggestions or putting any more thought and effort into their job than a drone. To be fair, data entry might be somewhat different from a department that relies heavily on skill and motivation. But frankly I think managers are shooting themselves in the foot if they treat people like children. Much of the time, people turn out to be what you treat them as. Edited June 4, 2019 by Elswyth 3
vla1120 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 You sound like a smart supervisor. My cousin used to brag about his glowing reviews. His boss would praise him for how hard he worked; in reality, he would sneak out to play golf often He worked for one of the top IT firms and his work hours and location were quite flexible. Thank you! Like your cousin, I'm in IT. Normally, in our field, no news is good news, so management tends to leave you alone as long as everything is working as expected (as it should be!)
The Outlaw Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 I understand where you're coming from, because I've covered for unfilled positions as well, but speak to her about it. Should you opt to fire her, it could possibly do more harm than good.
Author Mx12345 Posted June 4, 2019 Author Posted June 4, 2019 I don't really care if she finds data entry boring. Its part of her job description that was posted on the job site when we were looking for candidates, she was warned about in the interview, and it was listed in the job description she was given on her very first day. Plus while her job is heavy data entry, its not what she does day in and day out. The first week she was with us, our department was really behind in the data entry part, so I told her she would be doing that until it got caught up. Then this past week she's done no data entry, she's done other tasks. If I got to pick and chose which parts of my job I wanted to do and didn't want to do Id be the happiest employee around. But that's not how the real world works. I'm not against her looking for something else if shes unhappy, just don't do it on company time and a company computer. I'm not treating her like a child. I went to her desk to train her on a task. I asked her to open her internet browser and there it was, a job search page. No one is invading her privacy or "checking up on her." She shouldn't have been looking while at work plain and simple. And I have already confirmed with HR that probationary period or not, she can be fired for this. I'm debating if I want to go through all the time and money to do another round of interviews and all the training. Employers should not micromanage or treat employees like children. But employees arent being paid (and shes paid well I might add) to look for other jobs. 1
Els Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 I don't really care if she finds data entry boring. Its part of her job description that was posted on the job site when we were looking for candidates, she was warned about in the interview, and it was listed in the job description she was given on her very first day. Plus while her job is heavy data entry, its not what she does day in and day out. The first week she was with us, our department was really behind in the data entry part, so I told her she would be doing that until it got caught up. Then this past week she's done no data entry, she's done other tasks. If I got to pick and chose which parts of my job I wanted to do and didn't want to do Id be the happiest employee around. But that's not how the real world works. I'm not against her looking for something else if shes unhappy, just don't do it on company time and a company computer. I'm not treating her like a child. I went to her desk to train her on a task. I asked her to open her internet browser and there it was, a job search page. No one is invading her privacy or "checking up on her." She shouldn't have been looking while at work plain and simple. And I have already confirmed with HR that probationary period or not, she can be fired for this. I'm debating if I want to go through all the time and money to do another round of interviews and all the training. Employers should not micromanage or treat employees like children. But employees arent being paid (and shes paid well I might add) to look for other jobs. There is a lot of information here but none of it answers the key question: How is her performance on the tasks that were assigned her? 1
Foxhall Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 The point is, this particular employee is picking up things fast, by the OP’s own admission. Also, paradoxically, looking at your phones occasionally may be more productive in her case — there’s a lot of diminishing returns for doing long hours of data entry! Let me share with you guys one of Bill Gates wisdoms: He likes lazy employees, as they can find smart ways to do a given job. A smart employer only cares about the output and productivity! like this post June. 1
basil67 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 She probably doesn't like the work, it's true. But then she shouldn't have taken the job if she had a problem. Yet when a person is unemployed, we tell them to 'take a job - take any job' just to keep working. It could also be that she took the job with the best of intentions but found a toxic working environment or that it wasn't what she believed it would be. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 I don't really care if she finds data entry boring. Its part of her job description that was posted on the job site when we were looking for candidates, she was warned about in the interview, and it was listed in the job description she was given on her very first day. Plus while her job is heavy data entry, its not what she does day in and day out. The first week she was with us, our department was really behind in the data entry part, so I told her she would be doing that until it got caught up. Easy to play Monday Morning QB, but I question this whole approach. This is the introduction you want a new key employee to have to your company? If the data entry so easy a first-week employee could do it, I would have brought in a temp. Her initial time should be learning the culture, big picture, goals and systems, preferably by shadowing you. Regardless of what you said in the interview, were I her I'd feel under-valued... Mr. Lucky 1
Author Mx12345 Posted June 4, 2019 Author Posted June 4, 2019 If the data entry so easy a first-week employee could do it, I would have brought in a temp. Her initial time should be learning the culture, big picture, goals and systems, preferably by shadowing you. Regardless of what you said in the interview, were I her I'd feel under-valued... Mr. Lucky Every company is different, and in a small company, like mine, its pointless for her to shadow me for a week when what I do is nothing like what she would do. "Hey, spend an entire week watching what I do, you'll never do any of this by the way." And we don't hire temps for that position because it requires a clearance. I never said the data entry she was doing was an easy job. I think the disconnect is that its a small company and many people are treating the situation like this is a large company. She had her first day of orientation. When we hire someone we need them to start training right away on their tasks because we are already under staffed for the workload, thus the reason I said my company was experiencing growing pains. If she doesn't like the culture, the environment, the work she was hired to do, the hours, or anything else, she has the right to do whats best for her. But that does not mean look for another job on company time using a company laptop. Do that when you go home, on your own time. As for her performance, its good so far, no complaints. But if I talk to her at the end of the week and ask her why shes already thinking about leaving and she answers she doesn't like the data entry, then theres nothing I can do at that point. The position calls for heavy data entry, as was explained in the job ad, in the interview, and when she was given her job description the first day. Its like hiring for a lifeguard and putting in the job ad that the candidate will have to be in the water a lot. Then telling them in the interview they'll have to be in the water most of the time. Then telling them on their first day, youll need to be in the water for this job. Then them telling you after two weeks they are looking for another job because they don't like water.
Rayce Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 Then them telling you after two weeks they are looking for another job because they don't like water. and sometimes that happens... maybe instead of just getting rid of her right off the bat compromise… try to get a time commitment from her. Maybe she is will to stay long enough to help your staff get over being behind and a much needed break.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Every company is different, and in a small company, like mine, its pointless for her to shadow me for a week when what I do is nothing like what she would do. "Hey, spend an entire week watching what I do, you'll never do any of this by the way." You're missing the point. By spending some initial time with you or other senior employees, she learns how what she'll do supports what you do. You're focused on "how", employees today want to understand "why". Changing world, my friend. Your small company might give thought to how it can adjust to some new realities. Adaptation might lead to fewer future job openings... Mr. Lucky 3
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 You're missing the point. By spending some initial time with you or other senior employees, she learns how what she'll do supports what you do. You're focused on "how", employees today want to understand "why". Changing world, my friend. Your small company might give thought to how it can adjust to some new realities. Adaptation might lead to fewer future job openings... Mr. Lucky Exactly. She is evaluating you and your company just as much as you are evaluating her. If it's really a mindless data entry job then get a student. At the very least she needs to see how what she does contributes to the bigger picture. Squeezing what you can from her from day 1 is not the way to go. 2
Els Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 So, let me get this straight... - You put her right to work on Day 1 without making any effort to help her integrate into your company/culture - Her performance is still "good, no complaints" - But you want to reprimand her for looking at job ads on "company time" despite the fact that she did everything that was assigned to her, and did it well Look, it's your department and your job, so you do whatever you want I guess. But if you're looking for advice, my advice would be that you need to have a think about your management style if you want any sort of decent employee retention. 1
Foxhall Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 OP, yes in relation to this employee problem, I do think you need to loosen up about it however fair play to you in general, your obviously a stellar performer yourself and I admire your dedication and commitment to the company you work for. 1
salparadise Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 This is similar to the principle that water is always seeking its own level. Employees aren't magically imbued with lifelong loyalty simply because you hired them. If the pay, benefits, work environment and advancement opportunities aren't up to par for your industry, you can expect the best ones to have a short stay and gravitate to better situations. That's how it works, it's just business. Part of that is they're always going to be keeping their eye out for opportunities. You're taking it way to personally. If I were you, I'd not mention seeing that page on her computer screen, but have a sit down and ask how thing are going with her and the job, and see if she has any legitimate grievances that you can resolve. If she's good, let her know she's valued. Also realize that turnover is inevitable; you're not going to retain the best ones indefinitely (unless you offer their best opportunity for the future within the company). It was a mistake for her to allow you to see that website on her screen, but it wasn't egregious, and you should not take it personally. 2
JuneL Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) ”but if after 48 hours she tells you she does want the job then you ask her if she wants it bad enough to sign a contract and guarantee that she will still be there a year from now.” Are you sure such a contract is even enforceable, now that we’re many many years ahead of the Industrial Revolution period? Sadly, there are still supervisors and employers with the mindset that their subordinates or employees are like their private properties. If someone is given the right incentives and motivation, she is going to stay and even go the extra mile at her job. You simply can’t coerce people into liking her work/company/co-workers. As simple as that. p.s. Found something online: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2016/05/23/can-my-employer-hold-me-to-a-two-year-commitment/amp/ Edited June 5, 2019 by JuneL 1
thefooloftheyear Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 There are very few people in this world that need to be treated in such a way that they are almost bigger than the company....Sure, I mean, guys like Tom Brady and LeBron James? Their employers(if you can even call them that), have to basically do whatever makes those guys happy on a daily basis and anything they do to indicate they are upset needs to be addressed immediately... For the rest of the stiffs out there, its not the case... No disrespect to the OP's hire, but she is nothing more than a cog in the machine...I mean, sure, you want to give every employee the tools to succeed, treat them with respect, and provide the best environment you can, but its more about productivity than any real consideration for what is happening in that persons head.. No way should any hiring manager start to become a therapist over it and try to figure out what's happening in their heads or why they may be considering looking elsewhere......That's not their job.. I used to be the type of owner that wanted total loyalty, and figured every employee was honored to work for me....That's rookie shyt… Don't lose sight of the goal....Create the best work environment you can so that the work goes out the door...Period...People come and go...Unless its something very obvious don't spend much time trying to figure out what role players are thinking....There are going to be hires you hate, yet they are efficient and reliable, so you look the other way and realize they aren't coming home to your house to have dinner at the end of the day... Don't lose sight of the ultimate goal by wasting time on this stuff..."Play em or trade em"….Simple... TFY
Simple Logic Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Forget about it. Employees come and go. Employers show zero loyalty to there employees these days and you should not expect loyalty from your employees. 3
Mr. Lucky Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 your obviously a stellar performer yourself and I admire your dedication and commitment to the company you work for. Amen. The company is lucky to benefit from the OP's work ethic and commitment. Though maybe time for him to work smarter rather than harder... Mr. Lucky
snowcones Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Maybe she thinks the company is going to go under soon. If I thought that about a company (and I have before) I would be looking for other jobs too, because when the company goes under, they never tell the employees until the very last minute and they are left scrambling to find a new job.
snowcones Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Forget about it. Employees come and go. Employers show zero loyalty to there employees these days and you should not expect loyalty from your employees. You've got that right. As I always say, when you die, your job will be posted before your obituary will be posted. All the talk in this thread about browsing on company time is hilarious to me. In one of my old jobs, I used to have talk radio on (many people listened to the radio there) and my boss, who was a total un-fun tight-ass came into my office one time, looking irritated and tried to chastise me for it, asking me if it was distracting. I said NO, it's not, then she changed the subject. I was thinking, Lady, if you tell me I can't listen to the radio quietly in my office where no one else can hear it, we're going to have a BIG problem. Ugh, so glad I don't work for her anymore. Edited June 5, 2019 by snowcones 1
guest569 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Everyone is always browsing. If you're going to make a habit out of "catching" people who do that, expect all the best employees to avoid your company like the plague. Yes, omg. Just chill out mate. You can't go sacking people for looking at a job ad for perhaps only 5 seconds. Next you'll be counting staples and pens. 3
JuneL Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Yes, omg. Just chill out mate. You can't go sacking people for looking at a job ad for perhaps only 5 seconds. Next you'll be counting staples and pens. Or rationing the number of squares of toilet paper used by each employee Seriously, I’m curious to know why the OP called the newly hired person her employee, considering she’s not the biz owner herself. 3
thefooloftheyear Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 You've got that right. As I always say, when you die, your job will be posted before your obituary will be posted. . To be fair though, employees do the same thing, sometimes on a far worse level...Slavery has been abolished, so there is nothing to keep an employee from quitting in the middle of a job, sharing company info with competitors, taking all the training you give them, and just using it to get a better job.. Its not a one way street, that's why its important for both sides to realize that each side has autonomy and that its pointless to get too emotional over it... TFY 1
Els Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 sharing company info with competitors NDAs are enforceable. taking all the training you give them, and just using it to get a better job.. This is normal though. To quote Richard Branson (whom I daresay has built quite the empire for himself): Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough so they don't want to Its not a one way street, that's why its important for both sides to realize that each side has autonomy and that its pointless to get too emotional over it... I agree, I don't think anyone was saying the OP should get emotional. 1
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