BaileyB Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 In other words, you are planning a possible future with a serial cheater. Good luck with that! There is nothing wrong with saying parenting isn’t for you. Many people feel this way and have no children, or one child. If that is how you feel, best that you have that insight and not to get yourself into a position where four young lives depend on you. Gosh, I feel badly for this woman. Three young kids at home and a husband who is always working or philandering with other women. You say that you are stressed out parenting one child - imagine what her life is like. Then ask yourself, how are you contributing to her pain and hardship... 1
Bittersweetie Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 I have to agree with Turning. One of my main takeaways from my affair was related to that idea. I always thought, if I made one more change, THEN I would be happy. I changed jobs. I moved across the country. I moved back home. I went to graduate school. I had an affair. And after all that...I still was not happy. It wasn't until I hit rock bottom that I realized I thought my happiness should come from outside things and people. But that was not true. My happiness comes from inside myself, and with what I have. And if the things in my life are not making me happy, I have the power to make changes in a healthy and authentic way. You were not happy with your marriage...you started a relationship with a MM. Now you are not fully happy with that either. You are not happy with your future options (stepmom of an additional three kids). Are there other things in your life you are not satisfied with? Can you look at those things objectively to see if they are related in some way? One more thing...during my reflection after my affair, I also realized that I have the right to pursue my own happiness, but not at someone else's expense. Currently, your happiness (relationship with MM) is at other people's expenses: your family, his family. This is regardless of whether anyone knows. Is that truly the kind of person you want to be? And I say this as a woman who went down this path herself. 2
mark clemson Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 My guess is that he says he is an opened marriage to maybe prevent me from saying something to her because according to him she already knows about me. Also maybe he lies so that I don’t think he is this awful person, but he knows I’m cheating on my husband... so why would I care if he was doing the same. My husband and I both work full time with weekends off. We both finished college over a decade ago. We have limited family help as well but my son is in daycare during the week. Besides the times when I go out with friends or my husband goes out with friends we are always together with my son. We do family activities all weekend long with my sons friends and their parents, birthday parties, fun places every weekend. This is probably just what he tells ANY of his OWs. So he's telling you this as well. It sounds like you and your H have a decent marriage except for the sex part. It's too bad you can't get him to work on that with you.
elaine567 Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 You need to get your act in gear. YOU have so much to lose here. ON Dday, you will lose everything, husband's are pretty intolerant of cheating wives, your MM will persuade his wife to stay and carry on regardless having barely skipped a beat...
heartwhole2 Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 How do you think your husband would react if you asked him for an open marriage?
BaileyB Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 How do you think your husband would react if you asked him for an open marriage? Correct me if I’m wrong OP, but she has previously proposed it and he said he was fine with it. That said, he doesn’t know that she is involved with another man because she has not been honest. Besides, it doesn’t change the real problems here which are - we have an unhappy woman in an unhappy marriage and now, unhappy with in her affair. She is not capable of having an affair with a man without getting emotionally attached... And now, she has become emotionally attached to a man who is quite simply - not a good man. He is serial cheat and he has now proven himself capable of cruelty... Between a rock and a hard place, indeed.
Zona Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) Correct me if I’m wrong OP, but she has previously proposed it and he said he was fine with it. That said, he doesn’t know that she is involved with another man because she has not been honest. I'm kind of confused about that. She said that he had explicitly told her he was OK with her having an affair (!?). She later said he would walk if he found out about the affair. While my wife was embroiled in her short but intense affair (that I didn't know about until years later), I couldn't do anything right. I was too noisy eating, any joke was stupid, etc.,etc., the least little thing would set her off into a rant. After the affair was over, her behavior returned to normal. That is why I always wonder about the supposed marital unhappiness that "forces" a MOW into an affair. Sounds like if he got treatment for his E.D., things could be much better. From her description he has performance anxiety because of the E.D. and just avoids sex because of that. Edited June 16, 2019 by Zona
Author RoseGold18 Posted June 17, 2019 Author Posted June 17, 2019 You need to get your act in gear. YOU have so much to lose here. ON Dday, you will lose everything, husband's are pretty intolerant of cheating wives, your MM will persuade his wife to stay and carry on regardless having barely skipped a beat... Indeed. I certainly do have a lot to lose. My husband is great in every other way. He is a great provider, an even better father, is incredibly helpful around the house with chores, yard work, is kind, funny, responsible, and he thanks me for pulling my own weight as well by also working and taking care of our home and our son (us together). It’s more of a 50/50 partnership with work and home life. We have been together for 11 years and have rarely fought. There is no abuse going on at all. He is a good man. He loves our son more than anything. I am ashamed. I cry about it all the time. I always have since the day it had started. I feel guilt. I feel shame. I feel alone and awful betraying such a good man. He still looks out for me. Makes sure if I need or want something that I don’t deprive myself. He is very giving in material things. We’re not rich but we have most of our small wants. We built this great life together. Started dating in our 20’s. My husband at the time had a mountain of debt. He owed over 40K in credit cards and he was living at home with his parents. I also lived with my parents after graduating college because I had student loans and I didn’t want to get myself even further into debt. I was looking for a way out while I was living at home. Both my parents at the time were addicted to pain medication and were not working. My mother is disabled. It was a tough time for me and my husband and I decided to move in together. Once we got engaged (after 3 years of dating) I helped he pay off his debt. I took out one big loan with a low interest rate and we paid off his 5 credit cards. I deeply loved this man and knew he was worth it. Little by little we paid off that loan. We’re now debt free, except for our house. We both make more than we did 11 years ago because since then we’ve both been promoted at our jobs. We’re able to save for our sons college and catch up on our retirement. We take small family trips since our son is still little. We have a pretty sweet stress free life for the most part. We have a ton of mutual friends and our jobs are even intertwined. Believe me do I have a lot to lose. I know I’m a stupid girl. The need and desire for human touch has made me make awful decisions. I don’t even know who I am sometimes. This isn’t me. I am not usually a cheater. I never thought I would do it. Never in a million years. But I feel lonely and undesired. I feel old and ugly because my husband doesn’t give me that attention. He never wants it. He never asks for it. He never touches me. We haven’t kissed since our wedding day. He has no interest in sex. He doesn’t desire me. He doesn’t understand how sex works in terms of intimacy and even after 11 years he doesn’t know how to turn me on. He has never taken the time or care to learn what I like. He has no clue. I started thinking about stepping out of my marriage for years. Then I started haven’t vivid dreams. Some about the MM that I am currently seeing. I tried to tell my husband how unhappy I was. I tried telling him how lonely I was. I would cry to him. I would beg him. I would question him. I would lay in bed alone for hours and just cry to myself. Then about 2 years ago I had a cancer scare. I won’t go into much detail but they thought it could be HPV vulva cancer. I went through 2 painful vulva biopsies. My husband held my hand as I screamed and cried. The results came back negative. Just a lack of estrogen was making me have cancer like symptoms. Right then and there I was terrified about the thought of never enjoying sex again. I was cancer free. I was free to enjoy sex...again while I was still young enough to enjoy it. I’m not making excuses for my poor behavior but that’s where my head was at. My husband doesn’t like the pressure of me begging for him to have sex with me. I didn’t like the rejection time and time again. So I stopped asking. I stopped begging.
BaileyB Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 Rosegold, have you be to see a counsellor? I have said it before, and I will say it again... you need a counsellor more than you need an affair partner right now...
mark clemson Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 Hmmm. My take is normally that as a spouse you have a right to insist certain basic needs be met. It seems like all of them are except one. But here, insisting doesn't do much good because you'll just get a bad experience. One idea would be to insist that your husband take classes or other training on sex (assuming something like that's available). He probably would't do it it though - would feel it's humiliating. And having to resort to an affair is clearly distressing for you. Wish I knew what to tell you, but honestly it's a dilemma. Maybe ponder an alternate solution and one will occur to you.
BaileyB Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 I don’t know Mark... trying to turn a non-sexual relationship into a sexual relationship seems about as wise as trying to turn water into wine. This man has no interest in sex - has had little interest in sex since the day they met if you have read information shared by Rosegold in previous discussions. Sure, she could ask him to take a “class” on how to be a better lover but it’s not likely to work if he has little interest and doesn’t actually think there is a problem to be solved... 1
Zona Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 I don’t know Mark... trying to turn a non-sexual relationship into a sexual relationship seems about as wise as trying to turn water into wine. This man has no interest in sex - has had little interest in sex since the day they met I thought she said he had severe E.D. issues? I'm pretty sure that is treatable, however he would have to be the one to initiate treatment. She can't force him to do anything about it. He may have low T too, which is also easily treatable. The thing is, the BS may think everything is fine since she has stopped bringing up the subject and everything else in the marriage appears to be good. If he found out that his wife is so desperate that she is sleeping with a married man and his marriage is hanging by a thread, he might be motivated to do something about it.
BaileyB Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 It’s not ED issues, although Rosegold does hypothesize at one point. Read this discussion and you will learn that this has never been a sexual relationship. She married this man and had a child with him, knowing that he had no interest in sex. The site won’t let me quote because the discussion is too old. But, you will see some discussion on the first and 14th page... https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/660424-om-ghosting-me-14.html
heartwhole2 Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) You are a sexual person married to an asexual person. I don't begrudge you getting your needs met in an ethical manner, which is why I asked about the open marriage. I know a couple where one of them is asexual, and they decided to move into a duplex to raise their children under one roof but with each parent having a separate apartment. They are very good co-parents and friends. The problem with affairs is that almost nearly by definition you are dealing with an AP who is unethical and unhealthy, so how can you forge an ethical and healthy relationship with that person? I would suggest ending the affair and focusing on how to make your marriage and/or parenting relationship as open and healthy as possible. I absolutely support your right to sex, and I believe you can find ways to have sexual relationships that do not harm you or your family. Edited June 17, 2019 by heartwhole2 1
heartwhole2 Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 And by getting your sexual needs met, I do mean by someone other than your husband. It's unlikely your husband can change his core self. You and your husband might decide to be very close co-parents who live near each other but who are no longer married. At the very least, I would explore how to navigate a FWB relationship in therapy before seeking an AP, and I would make finding someone with integrity who is in a similar situation to yours a priority. There are plenty of people with incapacitated spouses who want to remain married but also have sexual needs. It's OK to love your husband and need sex at the same time. It's OK to be open about your needs. It doesn't need to be a "don't ask, don't tell" situation between you two. Life is messy and complicated. One size doesn't fit all. You are right that it's too much to ask you to give up sex for the rest of your life. You didn't understand the pitfalls of getting involved with any old guy up for an affair, but now you have learned. Your focus should be on getting healthy and figuring out how to get your needs met as a healthy person. 2
Zona Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 A healthy male completely uninterested in sex is just such a rarity. That's what makes me think he has health related issues. As for an open marriage, she's already got the feels for someone in a relationship that was supposed to be FWBs, so that seems risky at best. It may not be something she is capable of pulling off. From what I've read, open marriages only work when there is a high level and trust and connection between marriage partners, both emotionally and sexually. They need to be having a lot of sex with each other to keep the outside relationships from taking over.
Beendaredonedat Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 Wow, thanks for your honesty. I get what you’re saying but the pictures of his children came from Facebook. We’ve been Facebook friends for over 10 years. Being friends on facebook and having free access to photos really wasn't the main point of what I was saying. The main point is that he is getting a gift from a lover that also included photos of HER children. That would be disrespectful (a slap in the face) to his primary partner. 1
mark clemson Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 @Bailey (and in general keeping with the recent posts): Yes, I agree that there may not be much OP can do about her H. This does seem like one of those rare cases where looking outside the marriage for the sex aspect might actually make sense. Clearly cheating is distressing OP (as well as being unethical), so maybe discussion/revisiting her need to open the marriage and doing so more openly this time is what's needed? (Albeit, it's a bit risky if he doesn't react well to extramarital sex actually happening.) OP, still think you should take some time to consider where you are now and see if any new strategies (other than what's being discussed) come to mind. IF you open the marriage "openly" you aren't limited to this OM (and it sounds like he may not be a good candidate for this kind of thing, despite how you feel). My understanding of "open" relationships is that it's either a very finite number of partners who all know and like each other OR there are strictly followed rules about avoiding partners to whom one becomes emotionally attached. In spite of that, apparently problems (jealousy, attachment) often arise sooner or later from what I hear...
heartwhole2 Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 A healthy male completely uninterested in sex is just such a rarity. That's what makes me think he has health related issues. As for an open marriage, she's already got the feels for someone in a relationship that was supposed to be FWBs, so that seems risky at best. It may not be something she is capable of pulling off. From what I've read, open marriages only work when there is a high level and trust and connection between marriage partners, both emotionally and sexually. They need to be having a lot of sex with each other to keep the outside relationships from taking over. Have you read up on asexuality? At least one percent of the male population is asexual. In the couple I know, the man is the asexual one.
Zona Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) Have you read up on asexuality? At least one percent of the male population is asexual. In the couple I know, the man is the asexual one. From what I've read, less than 1% of people are asexual, and of those, 13% are men. So that would be about 1/4 of 1% of men. Let's just put it this way, him being asexual wouldn't be my first guess as to why he avoids sex. Sure it's possible, but all other possibilities would have to be ruled out first. About 25% of men suffer from low testosterone, so low T is about 100 times more common than asexuality. Edited June 17, 2019 by Zona 1
mark clemson Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 By the way, OP, nothing I've written above should be construed as a specific recommendation or advice. Just thoughts for you to consider and make your own choices. Think that's expected and would be your view, but am noting it just in case...
Aloha123 Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 +1 for starting an affair because my husband was so repressed sexually/had a low sex drive/ was always borderline asexual. When I started my affair, we had not had sex for 2 years. The trouble now is that I am no longer attracted to him (and now realize i never really was, on a relative basis). Gosh, Heartwhole, the situation you are describing is exactly what I would wish for with my husband going forward, though I doubt it would be possible given my dishonesty up to this point. I do want to point out, there is a difference between an open marriage versus a couple who is divorced/separated but who still live together for parenting/financial reasons. I have a friend whose wife "left" him for another woman, and who himself has never been particularly monogamous. But they still live together (she has health issues so can't work), and their child is very well adjusted and the parents still get along great. I think in order for this situation to work, both partners need to be mutually "over" and disinterested romantically in their former spouse, such that they truly are roommates versus "exes". And of course this situation is not for everybody, or for most people. I just want to point out that it's more of a "co-parenting" relationship than an open marriage. 1
LivingWaterPlease Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 A As for an open marriage, she's already got the feels for someone in a relationship that was supposed to be FWBs, so that seems risky at best. It may not be something she is capable of pulling off. Agree with the above. Seems to me it would be an unusual person (female especially) who could pull off having a sexual relationship with someone other than her husband and not becoming emotionally attached to the point of wanting to be with him. I know there are some who claim to do so but would think at the very least it's a huge risk and seems unhealthy to me.
mark clemson Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 Agree also - really OP's in a bit of a pickle here if she wants a good sex life 2
bigman1 Posted June 19, 2019 Posted June 19, 2019 I am gonna take an unpopular, but honest position on this. There are 2 other options. 1. Her H is a closeted gay man. No kiss since their wedding. Good provider, but no sex. Sounds like he's avoiding sex with her for a reason. I've seen it before. There are still closeted people for reasons like religion, where I saw this the most. 2. Her H was abused as a kid and he just can't do the intimacy thing. Again, I've seen it. But with the wife being the non sexual spouse.
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