New GF Going On Trip With Guy

[Acacia98]

I am probably too much of a nice guy sometimes, but I'm also very sincere, I don't feel it's in a weak way, and I really mean that. I'm a bit stoic in many ways with girls. I say a lot on this thread, but I'm very cautious what I say with girls.

 

In this particular situation, I just don't want to be "gaslighted", and taken for a fool. I also feel like if I open up, I just seem needy/"feminine".

 

But actually I want to say how I feel to her, and be honest. Meh...honestly, I should just kill myself

 

There's nothing wrong with being "beta," skanzer. "Alpha" is overrated.

 

I'm a straight female. I'm very similar to you personalitywise, and I thrive most in relationships with guys who are similar to me, i.e. guys like you.

 

The key to a happy relationship, I have found, is to date a guy who views boundaries, friendships, and relationships similarly to me. Dating somebody significantly different would cause me the kind of anxiety you're experiencing right now. So I've learnt not to do it.

 

It doesn't mean the other person is bad. For instance, this woman you're with may not actually be doing anything with the other dude. But her way of doing things still makes you two incompatible. You are going to feel anxious a lot of the time if you continue dating. You're just too different from each other in this particular way.

 

You don't need to kill yourself. You just need to understand yourself better and then to learn (through experience) which kinds of relationships you feel most peaceful in.

[Curiousroxy86]

Op

 

Have you asked this girl to be your exclusive girlfriend? If not then technically she could do what she wants and so can you. The fact that this girl is giving you sex doesn’t automatically mean y’all are automatically exclusive and can’t claim any wrong doing if you haven’t even made it clear that y’all are. Or when you said she choose you was that suppose to be claim to exclusivity? I’m confused please clarify.

 

If y’all are not exclusive I think that should have been established way before this trip if exclusivity was what you were expecting with this girl. But if you didn’t that’s ok because now you got a girl your dating who is showing a major red flag. She admits to you she has a crush on another dude that didn’t pan out. Then agreed to date you afterwards. And is now on a trip with the dude? She can do what she wants but if I were you I would be turned off. I would focus on having fun and date other people if y’all are truly not exclusive. And quite honestly I probably would ignore my male suitor after he told me he crushed on someone else lol. You just don’t say that sh*t to someone your dating unless your a narcissistic pos that likes to make your romantic interests jealous smh. Even if a male suitor tried to redeem himself by saying “hey I made a mistake and really like you and want to continue talking. That girl I told you about would never work and your the better choice”. Id be like “ok”, then not take him seriously, and keep dating other guys. I personally wouldn’t be having sex with a dude that would admit this sh*t to me but I guess men and women are different when it comes to that kind of thing. And if he says after all of that he is going on a trip with the girl he crushed on? Oh I would have ignored his butt completely!

 

So back to you. I personally think you should let the girl go completely no matter if you were exclusive or not. tell her “hey it was nice getting to know you but I don’t think we are going to work. Good luck”. And start dating other women. My major issue with this is that she admitted liking another dude to you before her other actions. If it wasn’t for that I would say continue being open to seeing her when she contacts you and date other women (again if y’all are really not exclusive) but the fact that she openly told you that you were sloppy seconds is just not okay and make all her other actions suspect.

 

So no sir you do not sit by the phone and wait for her. Let her go. Focus on doing whatever makes you happy. And find some girl that’s less disrespectful.

[Marc878]

 

The key to a happy relationship, I have found, is to date a guy who views boundaries, friendships, and relationships similarly to me. Dating somebody significantly different would cause me the kind of anxiety you're experiencing right now. So I've learnt not to do it.

 

 

This is good advice.

 

Not every relationship works out. That's why you date.

 

The key is not to hang around too long trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

[Purepony]

Stop wasting time and go mess around with other girls !

You aren’t exclusive and she’s gone !!!

[Highndry]

Beta behavior? So instead of waiting to see I'm being to emotional and if she wasn't having sex with this guy, what should I do?

 

Honestly, what should I do? Should I send her a message, tell her I'm done?

 

Do NOT send her a message and tell her you're done while she's on this vacation. That is about the worst thing you could do.

 

The time to have a conversation about everything was when you found out about the trip. Nothing emotional, just a matter of fact statement that you are not comfortable with her going on vacation with a man she told you she had a crush on when you first told her you liked her. This is a basic, healthy boundary, and one that any woman would understand if they put themselves in your position. Any woman who doesn't get it, ain't worth it.

 

Also, what should have been talked about at the same time was exclusivity, because if you aren't exclusive then you have absolutely no ground to stand on, because a lack of exclusivity means each person is still dating others. If it was exclusivity you wanted and she wasn't willing, you break up with her right then before she even goes on the trip, telling her you're going to find somebody interested in a long term relationship.

 

My own personal opinion is that she is selfish and disrespectful, and doesn't think a whole lot of you and the relationship. Hanging out with the guy she had a crush on is more important. Imagine what she'd do if he decided he wanted to hit it - she'd be all over him.

[skanzer]

Do NOT send her a message and tell her you're done while she's on this vacation. That is about the worst thing you could do.

 

The time to have a conversation about everything was when you found out about the trip. Nothing emotional, just a matter of fact statement that you are not comfortable with her going on vacation with a man she told you she had a crush on when you first told her you liked her. This is a basic, healthy boundary, and one that any woman would understand if they put themselves in your position. Any woman who doesn't get it, ain't worth it.

 

Also, what should have been talked about at the same time was exclusivity, because if you aren't exclusive then you have absolutely no ground to stand on, because a lack of exclusivity means each person is still dating others. If it was exclusivity you wanted and she wasn't willing, you break up with her right then before she even goes on the trip, telling her you're going to find somebody interested in a long term relationship.

 

My own personal opinion is that she is selfish and disrespectful, and doesn't think a whole lot of you and the relationship. Hanging out with the guy she had a crush on is more important. Imagine what she'd do if he decided he wanted to hit it - she'd be all over him.

 

 

I did tell her it bothered me before she left, and she said not to worry, that she just sees him like a girlfriend, not even a guy.

 

Also, I see what you're saying, but how do I balance what you're saying with the idea that this was a trip planned way in advance, and that I'm new to her life. She's been friends with him for 1 year. I've known her 2 months. I should have expected her to drop a trip that she made with this guy AND another girl just because I popped into the picture? It doesn't seem they got anywhere physically for a whole year, and are just friends, and she probably had a crush on him before I came into the picture. I understand she maybe still likes him, but it seems she likes me a lot too.

 

At the same time, yes this bothers me a lot, but I'm not sure I should discount her completely, considering that she sees me, we have sexual activity together, she talks to me etc.

Edited May 1, 2019 by skanzer

[Highndry]

She's 27 and she's only known this guy a year - a guy who she had a crush on and who rebuffed her. It's not like he's some long time friend you're trying to run out of her life. This whole think reeks, but only you can make the decision that you think is right for you.

[SevenCity]

I agree with you, and yes, I'm acting weak. It's not her fault, it's mine, so I don't put this blame on her (in relation to how I control my emotions).

 

I don't take your words personal, actually I think you gauged me quite well, and I appreciate your honest criticism.

 

I am probably too much of a nice guy sometimes, but I'm also very sincere, I don't feel it's in a weak way, and I really mean that. I'm a bit stoic in many ways with girls. I say a lot on this thread, but I'm very cautious what I say with girls.

 

In this particular situation, I just don't want to be "gaslighted", and taken for a fool. I also feel like if I open up, I just seem needy/"feminine".

 

But actually I want to say how I feel to her, and be honest. Meh...honestly, I should just kill myself

 

There is a difference between being honest and projecting your feelings on a girl. You like her more than she likes you. That’s a bad place to be.

 

Flip the situation, say you had a trip planned with a girl who rebuffed you and this girl had an issue. Would you risk upsetting/losing her to go on this trip?

 

Men often are planning their future family vacations in their head when they go on a first date with a pretty girl or have sex with her. It’s the way we work.

 

Women typically fall in love slowly over time. It’s also easier for them because they have far more options. What you need to do is create options for yourself so you can be more objective. Imagine an equally good looking woman who is giving you sex AND is considerate of your feelings and doesn’t want to risk losing you? This chick on the trip with her crush would be history.

 

This girl has given you a peak into your future. There are women out there now who would love to make you their bf and lock you down. Just a matter of finding them. Keep looking my friend.

[skanzer]

Thanks everyone, for all your input. Really nice to know that I can come to this forum for sound advice. I’ll let you all know how it goes

[skanzer]

I'm thinking of sending her this message (after she returns from her trip), is this a stupid move?

 

(Message below):

 

Honestly, it’s probably best I don’t see you anymore. You don’t seem to understand or respect my feelings. You went on a 5-6 day trip with someone you told me you had a crush on, and you just expected me to be okay with it, as if I shouldn’t be bothered at all by this. The excuse that he is “asexual” is just to make me not worry, but it’s a fake excuse and you know it. Instead of having new and interesting experiences with me, you are having those experiences with him on this trip.

 

Not only this, but you won’t even invite me to your house parties, but HE is always invited. I’m supposed to be okay with this? You go on trips with a guy that you said you have a crush on, and he comes to your house parties, but I am not allowed to join? Not okay with this.

 

I think you’re a great person, but I think to continue to try to date you will bring headache and confusion for me, because it doesn’t seem you very interested in building a sincere relationship with me. I think when a girl REALLY likes a guy, and she wants to have a relationship with him, she will put him first always, and not put some different guy first.

 

I'm not sure if you can understand me, but these are my thoughts. Thanks for everything, I really wish you the best, and I enjoyed our meetings.

 

[end of message]

Edited May 1, 2019 by skanzer

[elaine567]

Forget the blame game. Weak and a bit whiny.

If you want to break up then just send.

 

"Honestly, it’s probably best I don’t see you anymore. Thanks for everything, I really wish you the best, and I enjoyed our meetings."

[skanzer]

Forget the blame game. Weak and a bit whiny.

If you want to break up then just send.

 

"Honestly, it’s probably best I don’t see you anymore. Thanks for everything, I really wish you the best, and I enjoyed our meetings."

 

It's not blame game, I'm laying out the state of things as I see it.

Explaining myself clearly in this way at least gives her a chance to explain herself and try to rectify things, no?

 

I'm just wondering if this LONG message seems creepy, and will turn her off.

[d0nnivain]

I'm thinking of sending her this message (after she returns from her trip), is this a stupid move?

 

IMO, yes because of the medium. The boundaries you are drawing are fine. Sending by text is cowardly & immature. You can't conduct your life through a device. Speak to her in person & break up. Don't do it through text message. Ugh.

[Curiousroxy86]

 

I'm just wondering if this LONG message seems creepy, and will turn her off.

 

its much more effective and attractive for you right now to send "I dont think its going to work between us. take care and have fun" and then go live your best life and date other women

 

IF AND ONLY IF she text back and ask why then you can say "I cant be with a girl who goes on trips with a guy she admitted to me she tried to be with and expect me to be okay with it. no hard feelings though. take care."

 

again only send the second part if she asks why. if she doesnt ask well it shouldnt matter because your suppose to move on.

 

please dont send what you are planning to send. just dont.

[some_username1]

It's not blame game, I'm laying out the state of things as I see it.

Explaining myself clearly in this way at least gives her a chance to explain herself and try to rectify things, no?

 

I'm just wondering if this LONG message seems creepy, and will turn her off.

 

It's awful, quite frankly. You make a lot of assumptions- like you know her game better than she does. *IF* she isn't doing anything wrong (and you have no categorical proof that she isn't) then she is going to be totally WTF when she reads that and realise that she is better off without you regardless.

 

I don't see why it has to be so all or nothing. Come on, be honest, if you had started dating a girl and you were unsure if it was going anywhere (and you CAN'T be sure of anything after 2 months) would you bail on a trip with your friends because there were other females going? Of course you wouldn't. Apologies for the tough love OP but frankly it's a bit ridiculous to put on her the burden of your insecurities so early on, you barely know each other! Just keep it as a casual relationship and see if it becomes serious 6 months down the line when you know who you both are better and have more of a chance to gauge if she is serious dating material.

 

I do agree with the earlier poster who said it was a shady play telling you that she had a crush on this guy- that was needless information really and this new information about her inviting him to house parties and not you does not make good reading. Trips require planning and money, inviting someone to a house party is low effort and costs nothing and if she can't do that.....but still, to return to my earlier point you don't have any proof of anything and I don't see it as being reasonable to expect her to not go on a trip to safeguard the feelings of someone she has just met. You won't come out of this well if you send that message, just go low interest when she gets back, let her do all the running and see how much interest she displays after spending a week or however long in matey's company and gauge things from there...

[skanzer]

IMO, yes because of the medium. The boundaries you are drawing are fine. Sending by text is cowardly & immature. You can't conduct your life through a device. Speak to her in person & break up. Don't do it through text message. Ugh.

 

I might just do it via text honestly.

 

I drastically reduced the message size, thoughts?

 

Message starts:

 

"It probably best we don’t meet anymore. This 5-6 day trip with the guy you said you had a crush on made me feel very uncomfortable, and actually I wish I could have been there with you to enjoy those new experiences, but you didn’t invite me. Not only this, but you will always invite this guy to your weekend house parties, but you will never even think to invite me. When I asked you about it, you told me I am not allowed to go to your house party because I am not a “usual member”. If you really liked me and wanted a relationship with me, it wouldn’t this way.

 

I wish you the best and I enjoyed our meetings together"

[d0nnivain]

Still too long.

 

Since you insist on using the worst medium in the world don't wait until she comes back. Just get it over with.

 

You being on this trip made me realize you & I are not a good fit. Please do not contact me anymore.

 

That's it. Even if she does come back with a response, ignore her. She has already acted inappropriately. No words can fix that.

[skanzer]

It's awful, quite frankly. You make a lot of assumptions- like you know her game better than she does. *IF* she isn't doing anything wrong (and you have no categorical proof that she isn't) then she is going to be totally WTF when she reads that and realise that she is better off without you regardless.

 

I don't see why it has to be so all or nothing. Come on, be honest, if you had started dating a girl and you were unsure if it was going anywhere (and you CAN'T be sure of anything after 2 months) would you bail on a trip with your friends because there were other females going? Of course you wouldn't. Apologies for the tough love OP but frankly it's a bit ridiculous to put on her the burden of your insecurities so early on, you barely know each other! Just keep it as a casual relationship and see if it becomes serious 6 months down the line when you know who you both are better and have more of a chance to gauge if she is serious dating material.

 

I do agree with the earlier poster who said it was a shady play telling you that she had a crush on this guy- that was needless information really and this new information about her inviting him to house parties and not you does not make good reading. Trips require planning and money, inviting someone to a house party is low effort and costs nothing and if she can't do that.....but still, to return to my earlier point you don't have any proof of anything and I don't see it as being reasonable to expect her to not go on a trip to safeguard the feelings of someone she has just met. You won't come out of this well if you send that message, just go low interest when she gets back, let her do all the running and see how much interest she displays after spending a week or however long in matey's company and gauge things from there...

 

I do agree with you, I should not have expected her to invite me to the trip, as it's more complex planning, and I'm fine with that. But she didn't acknowledge my feelings about how I felt that this guy was going, she just accused me of thinking she's dating with other guys. She told me she has a crush on him!

 

And she invites him to her house parties on weekends. When I asked why she doesn't invite me, she said it's only "usual members" who go....WHAT! It sounds like she just wants to keep me at a distance from everyone she knows, so she can enjoy her fun with me while still keeping the other guy open as an option if he comes through.

[d0nnivain]

By excluding you from the parties she was consistently choosing him over you. You don't have to remind her. She knows she was playing you two against each other. Be done with her. The sooner the better.

[doyathinkso]

Not only this, but you will always invite this guy to your weekend house parties, but you will never even think to invite me. When I asked you about it, you told me I am not allowed to go to your house party because I am not a “usual member”. If you really liked me and wanted a relationship with me, it wouldn’t this way.

 

 

 

 

 

Heck I would have dropped her already just over this.

[SevenCity]

I would send a message like this:

 

“Ive been doing some thinking and realized our goals are not in alignment. I have decided we should not see each other anymore. It was great meeting you and I wish you the best of luck.”

 

This leaves very little to discuss as you have already made your decision and you are not giving her a chance to defend herself because you are not accusing her of anything.

 

I’ve used the above several times on short term RLs and it works fine and ended without any drama.

[some_username1]

I do agree with you, I should not have expected her to invite me to the trip, as it's more complex planning, and I'm fine with that. But she didn't acknowledge my feelings about how I felt that this guy was going, she just accused me of thinking she's dating with other guys. She told me she has a crush on him!

 

And she invites him to her house parties on weekends. When I asked why she doesn't invite me, she said it's only "usual members" who go....WHAT! It sounds like she just wants to keep me at a distance from everyone she knows, so she can enjoy her fun with me while still keeping the other guy open as an option if he comes through.

 

I see it from both sides-- to be really blunt with you OP with your choice of words in your previous post it comes across like you are trying to insert yourself into every aspect of her life (I want to have these experiences with you" etc) and it sounds slightly possessive and it's waaaaaaay too soon. You say that sorta stuff after dating for 6 months to a year. If at that point she tells you she's going on a road trip with matey then you start to lay down the law of what you will and will not put up with.

 

I wonder if this is your natural style of dating? To push things along really fast at the start? I ask this because I recognise a lot of this in myself and I have learnt that the best approach is really 'less is more', have a busy life so you don't have the time to think about her trips because you have so much planned yourself. Girls love guys who are off doing their own thing and don't have time to call. They prize space in the early exchanges. In fact I saw a comment on another thread was very appropriate to this situation - along the lines of "guys start planning holidays and trips with girls in their head after the first date whereas girls are slow-burners and fall for a guy over longer periods of time".

 

It is also entirely plausible that she wants to phase you into her group because she naturally goes slow with guys she has just started dating. Some people are quite protective of their friendship groups in that sense. There is also the question of interest - put yourself in this situation, if you were 50/50 about a girl, would you be inviting her on trips or round to your house parties? You wouldn't because it would be too much too soon for someone you are uncertain of investing too much in *yet*. It might be that way for her. She may be keen on you, but not keen enough to dive in head first and that's fine - she may be a slow-burner.

 

But....that being said, I can certainly see that you can make a plausible case that she wants to have her cake and eat it and doesn't want you to be too visible because you might ruin her chances with matey.

 

The truth is that at this point you just don't know enough to gauge which of these scenarios is actually true because to my mind they are all as plausible as the other. The question is is it worth totally binning her off because your insecurities are getting the better of you?

 

As an aside I do notice on this forum that there is a lot of pressure to be all or nothing- ie you don't want to be the sort of guy who is disrespected which backs you into a corner and means you are under pressure to ditch someone just to save your reputation as a guy who takes no ****. Life is not as black and white as that. There are ways of keeping girls like this round as options while coming across as a guy who doesn't take any crap simply because he doesn't care enough in the beginning to be taken advantage of. He is living his life and if this girl comes and goes so what? There are things to be done and other women out there. As opposed to the angry guy who sends passive aggressive messages and runs off at the first opportunity. Which guy sounds more interesting and fun to date? I think that is the best approach, be happy go lucky, don't invest too much, keep these types of girls in orbit. Women do this very successfully and my attitude that men can do this too with a bit of work.

[skanzer]

I see it from both sides-- to be really blunt with you OP with your choice of words in your previous post it comes across like you are trying to insert yourself into every aspect of her life (I want to have these experiences with you" etc) and it sounds slightly possessive and it's waaaaaaay too soon. You say that sorta stuff after dating for 6 months to a year. If at that point she tells you she's going on a road trip with matey then you start to lay down the law of what you will and will not put up with.

 

I wonder if this is your natural style of dating? To push things along really fast at the start? I ask this because I recognise a lot of this in myself and I have learnt that the best approach is really 'less is more', have a busy life so you don't have the time to think about her trips because you have so much planned yourself. Girls love guys who are off doing their own thing and don't have time to call. They prize space in the early exchanges. In fact I saw a comment on another thread was very appropriate to this situation - along the lines of "guys start planning holidays and trips with girls in their head after the first date whereas girls are slow-burners and fall for a guy over longer periods of time".

 

It is also entirely plausible that she wants to phase you into her group because she naturally goes slow with guys she has just started dating. Some people are quite protective of their friendship groups in that sense. There is also the question of interest - put yourself in this situation, if you were 50/50 about a girl, would you be inviting her on trips or round to your house parties? You wouldn't because it would be too much too soon for someone you are uncertain of investing too much in *yet*. It might be that way for her. She may be keen on you, but not keen enough to dive in head first and that's fine - she may be a slow-burner.

 

But....that being said, I can certainly see that you can make a plausible case that she wants to have her cake and eat it and doesn't want you to be too visible because you might ruin her chances with matey.

 

The truth is that at this point you just don't know enough to gauge which of these scenarios is actually true because to my mind they are all as plausible as the other. The question is is it worth totally binning her off because your insecurities are getting the better of you?

 

As an aside I do notice on this forum that there is a lot of pressure to be all or nothing- ie you don't want to be the sort of guy who is disrespected which backs you into a corner and means you are under pressure to ditch someone just to save your reputation as a guy who takes no ****. Life is not as black and white as that. There are ways of keeping girls like this round as options while coming across as a guy who doesn't take any crap simply because he doesn't care enough in the beginning to be taken advantage of. He is living his life and if this girl comes and goes so what? There are things to be done and other women out there. As opposed to the angry guy who sends passive aggressive messages and runs off at the first opportunity. Which guy sounds more interesting and fun to date? I think that is the best approach, be happy go lucky, don't invest too much, keep these types of girls in orbit. Women do this very successfully and my attitude that men can do this too with a bit of work.

 

This is very insightful, thank you. I can see where you are coming from completely. Honestly, I'm not going to send any message. I have a meeting with her on Saturday, I'll see how it goes

[some_username1]

This is very insightful, thank you. I can see where you are coming from completely. Honestly, I'm not going to send any message. I have a meeting with her on Saturday, I'll see how it goes

 

In the meantime, download a dating app and see who else is out there. If you haven't discussed exclusivity you aren't doing anything wrong by setting up a date for Friday night.....

[skanzer]

In the meantime, download a dating app and see who else is out there. If you haven't discussed exclusivity you aren't doing anything wrong by setting up a date for Friday night.....

 

Actually, I have a lunch date tomorrow, with a girl from a dating app that I spoke with today. I think I'm a little obsessive and desperate because she's the only girl on my radar right now. I'm just going to date other girls, and at the end of the day, you can't force things...

 

she can do as she likes, I'll do the same