Girlfriend seems reluctant to move to a deeper level in the relationship.

[spiderowl]

I get the feeling she likes you a lot but has some reservations about a more committed relationship (and therefore consummating it). I say this because I was recently in a similar situation. I felt there were differences between us that could not be resolved by compromise and that it would not be a good idea to take it further.

 

Dancing is not obligatory in most relationships. I do know quite a few dancers and mostly they dance with their partners and others. Dancing is important to them and they go to quite a few dances during a month. I can imagine that someone who loves dancing and sees it as a major part of their soul will ideally want a partner that loves dancing too.

 

Dancing may not be the issue, but it is possible that she is looking for someone who loves dancing but nevertheless likes you and is wondering if it could work if you aren't into dancing.

 

My own situation was that we could not compromise. I was put into a situation where it was his way or he would be unhappy and judgemental. Despite liking a lot of the time we spent together, and caring about him as a person/friend, I could not see a way round it. Compromise was not possible. For example, if you like fishing and your partner sees it as an abomination and hates it, what do you do? If you go fishing, they are unhappy. If you don't go fishing, you are unhappy? If neither is willing to tolerate the other living as they wish, then there is no choice but to split.

 

Did she mention any other things that you may have taken as minor things but which could be deal-breakers for her?

 

I feel she cares about you, misses you, but is worried the relationship cannot work for some reason.

[AGoodFriend]

Wow, spiderowl, this is very deep. I appreciate you taking the time to break this down for me. A lot of what you said captures the essence of our last serious conversation (shortly after the no-text weekend and dance class).

 

She said she "like me a lot." Exactly as you put it. But she felt she wanted things to go much more slowly than they were. I told her I was cool with that.

 

I also feel that she does care about me and misses me, but has some reservations. And I guess I've kind of pushed her into a situation where it is all or nothing, and she is leaning towards nothing. In the beginning there was a gray area and there would be times when we talk and not, but there were no negative feelings, just the beginning. After about 2 months everything became fairly serious.

 

I been thinking about some mistakes I have made recently that have most likely contributed to this:

 

1. She wanted to go back to the salsa class the next week but I balked at it. (I don't feel comfortable in the nightlife setting, and never really have). She insisted but I was pretty adamant.

2. She wanted to go to a comedy show after she won two tickets at work. She came to my office right away and invited me. I didn't want to go. Part of it was because we had mutually agreed to hide our relationship at work. The rejection in her face was visceral.

3. She wanted to go to another nightclub the week after that. By then she realized that I am not comfortable with nightclubs and bars and said we could do something else, which we did. She didn't seem disappointed about that, though.

4. There have been times when she wanted to see me and I was not available because I had something else going on: visiting friends or my brother. I could tell she felt rejected because she told me that I was "always hiding."

5. She just asked me on Thursday when we were going to the movies (which I suggested last week) and I said "Very soon." By this time I myself am having some serious reservations.

 

So when I look back on it, I have committed some egregious mistakes that probably made her feel that I am not a real candidate for something serious not because I can't dance, but because I wasn't available when she needs me to be.

 

I realize now (doh!) that inviting me to the comedy special was her way of saying that she wanted to take our relationship public in the office.

 

I acknowledge this and it is probably causing our slow breakup. Unfortunately, I feel that opportunities to talk it out have passed, especially since she doesn't like to talk about emotions in the first place.

 

So, yeah, I think that though she is not the great communicator, I blew my chance at the serious relationship I have been trying to establish. I just couldn't see it at the time because my anxiety and insecurities are killer.

Edited April 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Highndry]

The more I read about this the more I think this entire relationship has been doomed by your insecurities, and you are pushing for the end rather than risking "losing her."

 

I am also starting to wonder if she's waiting to hear an "I love you" before she lets you have intercourse with her.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Highndry

[Logo]

2. She wanted to go to a comedy show after she won two tickets at work. She came to my office right away and invited me. I didn't want to go. Part of it was because we had mutually agreed to hide our relationship at work. The rejection in her face was visceral.

 

 

After how many weeks or months into the relationship did that happen?

[AGoodFriend]

The more I read about this the more I think this entire relationship has been doomed by your insecurities, and you are pushing for the end rather than risking "losing her."

 

I am also starting to wonder if she's waiting to hear an "I love you" before she lets you have intercourse with her.

 

Yes, I would rather it end gracefully. If she told me she wanted to be friends, I'd be happy with that.

 

I have already told her I loved her.

[JuneL]

It sounds like you’re incompatible. That said, I’m not sure why she has this hang up on having real sex with you. I assume you’re official bf-gf, no?

 

This slow/no text thing should be a warning to her; when you see her next time, tell her your needs are not met and you should part ways.

Edited April 28, 2019 by JuneL

[AGoodFriend]

This slow/no text thing should be a warning to her; when you see her next time, tell her your needs are not met and you should part ways.

 

Agreed. Hopefully we can have one more serious conversation to see if we have a chance or not. Also, as Mrin pointed out, I am basically trying to be a husband already. So I have some work to do.

[chillii]

Well if you truly love her then l don't see why it has to be over at all, nothing that bad has even happened and this silly text thing can be fixed in 2 seconds just go see her, call her , text her, anything.

Did she say she loves you too ?

l can't work out why your in such a hurry though or even if subconsciously playing hubby already.

Really the fact that she wants to take it slow would be a good thing for you from where you've just come from, isn't it ?

 

As far as talking about where it's going, l agree l think she does like you a lot and she maybe has long term hopes for this. People can act different when it's serious because hearts and hope are on the line so that would add to whatever issues she has too.

 

Could be wrong but if you just chilled a bit on the explanations and plans, they'll probably just fall into shape itself along the way.

lf you did still want that anyway. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.

[AGoodFriend]

Did she say she loves you too ?

 

 

As far as talking about where it's going, l agree l think she does like you a lot and she maybe has long term hopes for this. People can act different when it's serious because hearts and hope are on the line so that would add to whatever issues she has too.

 

Could be wrong but if you just chilled a bit on the explanations and plans, they'll probably just fall into shape itself along the way.

lf you did still want that anyway. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.

 

No, she hasn't said she loves me.

 

She may see long term potential, you're right.

 

You're right about my expectations. I need to dial that back.

 

I wish I could change the title of this thread. My issue really has nothing to do with the fact that she won't go all the way. It has more to do with how our hang ups and insecurities are preventing the relationship from moving to a deeper stage.

Edited April 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[LivingWaterPlease]

We texted normally Thursday night. That's when she asked when we were going to the movies and I said "very soon."

 

 

 

Oh, by the way, she did invite me to church and I went a few weeks ago. I don't know if that means anything...

 

Sounds to me as if she wanted to discuss a firm date to go to the movies. That you said, "Very soon," rather than discussing a date for the movies would be a bit of a put off to me in her place but not a game changer. It's a very small piece of the puzzle but could be indicative of your mindset as she views it. I believe it's possible she wants you to be more of a take-charge type person. Not sure of this, but seems a distinct possibility.

 

Also, inviting you to church is a big deal, imo. I won't invite a guy to go to church with me that I'm not considering a serious relationship with because when you show up at church with a guy everyone starts asking you about him. This can continue for weeks or months afterward even if you don't continue bringing the guy to church with you.Depending on the size church she attends, it may be similar to introducing you to her family. It is for me. We have 200-300 people who attend each week and folks are very protective of each other and supportive of dating relationships.

 

Editing this to add that another reason I won't invite a guy to church with me that I'm not serious about is that if I bring lots of different guys to church with me then it looks as if I'm a player, a reputation I don't want, and especially at church! I definitely won't invite someone to church I'm not serious about.

 

With these two things in mind and also with your other posts I think she really likes you but would like for you to adopt a more take-charge aggressive approach in your relationship.

 

If you're really interested in her why not text every weekend? Every day. We're all different but I expect the guy to take the lead in texting and not let a day go by without texting or calling, either or both.

 

Also, most, if not every poster on this thread seems to be of the opinion that because she hasn't had intercourse with you yet something is wrong or she's not into you.

 

It's a big world out there and a lot of folks are pretty casual about sex. But, some of us aren't. I have dated many, yes many, guys who are content to date me with the promise of intercourse after marriage only. There are many women out there who also believe that way. That doesn't mean she's holding out for intercourse after marriage only but it may be that she wants to get more serious with you before proceeding with it.

 

I fully expect a lot of guys to decry this mindset because this would not set well with many guys. However, it's fine with many guys and some are actually looking for a woman who takes having sex seriously enough to wait for marriage. I say this because I know plenty of men like this and I've dated some of them. Many guys prize this mindset in a woman.

 

So, there's that to consider.

 

In no way am I bashing someone who is not of this mindset and really don't want to discuss which mindset is better or worse.

 

It's just that I'm suggesting it's possible this is her mindset and I don't see you as making a mistake to continue dating someone who is not having intercourse with you.

Edited April 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[AGoodFriend]

I believe it's possible she wants you to be more of a take-charge type person.

 

Agree. For the most part, I am. My confidence was just shaken after the salsa class because that is an area (dancing, nightlife) where I have no ability whatsoever.

 

Also, inviting you to church is a big deal, imo. I won't invite a guy to go to church with me that I'm not considering a serious relationship with because when you show up at church with a guy everyone starts asking you about him.

 

Also agree with this. And the fact that she invited after I told her that I am not really religious did stand out with me.

 

 

If you're really interested in her why not text every weekend? Every day. We're all different but I expect the guy to take the lead in texting and not let a day go by without texting or calling, either or both.

 

We text like crazy! Thousands of texts exchanged since we started. I think that she has the attitude that texting should be literally a 1:1 ratio type of thing. I'm new to this whole 21st century dating thing, whereas she is not. I think people should reach out when they want to talk. But when her texts seem "cold" I kind of shy away and assume she needs space. To which she has told me that instead of assuming, I should have reached out.

 

It's a big world out there and a lot of folks are pretty casual about sex. But, some of us aren't. I have dated many, yes many, guys who are content to date me with the promise of intercourse after marriage only. There are many women out there who also believe that way. That doesn't mean she's holding out for intercourse after marriage only but it may be that she wants to get more serious with you before proceeding with it.

 

I'd be happy to wait for her! Sex isn't a huge priority for me right now, anyway. I hope to build a solid bond with her more than anything. I think for me, the issue is that she doesn't verbally express herself and I can't read her cues very well because she is very emotionally guarded. I wish I could change the title of this thread!

 

It's really not about that she hasn't had sex with me. I just wish she would VERBALIZE what she is feeling. I just can't read her.

 

One good thing: I can make her laugh.

[JuneL]

LWP: But the movie thing happened when the OP was trying to pull back, due to the lack of progress in their relationship.

 

Now it’s different if the girlfriend wants to wait until marriage to have real sex, due to religious or other reasons. They can just have a clear conversation. But she has repeatedly refused to talk and communicate. Didn’t the OP mention she had fwb before?

 

About the church thing. Perhaps she hasn’t had a bf for a long time, and needed to show him off!

Edited April 28, 2019 by JuneL

[LivingWaterPlease]

I get it, AGoodFriend, and JuneL, the issue is she's guarded and doesn't communicate well verbally.

 

Well, I may have missed this but have you told her you really like her but would like for the two of you to be more verbally communicative about your feelings?

 

I used to be very closed with a guy wanting to be sure he was heavily into me before letting him know my feelings or discussing much. IOW, I, too, was quite guarded at her age, compared to the norm, I believe.

 

Maybe if you just told her of your need for her to be open with you, and also let her know that you care deeply for her, she would feel more free to talk with you about deeper things.

 

OTOH, possibly the both of you are insecure and wanting the other to take the lead in revealing the depth of interest you have for the other. In that case, one of you is going to have to step way out of your comfort zone, it seems to me. But, maybe you already have.

 

I just hate for you to throw this R away without a little more work on it because you state repeatedly things such as, "She is lovely," "She is what I'm looking for in a wife," etc. Then again, what do I know? Since I can't see and feel what you can. Just my opinion.

 

Editing to add: You wrote, one good thing, I can make her laugh! Lol! That's a great thing, OP! And I see many good things you write about with your friendship with her, not just one!

Edited April 28, 2019 by LivingWaterPlease

[JuneL]

OP: Was your insecurity partly due to your divorce? Was it mainly your ex-wife’s decision? Many men in your situation would spend the next couple of years playing the field to regain their confidence. This woman sounds too much work, if I may be completely honest. You’re too old to babysit her.

[AGoodFriend]

 

Maybe if you just told her of your need for her to be open with you, and also let her know that you care deeply for her, she would feel more free to talk with you about deeper things.

 

 

Thanks for the kind words LWP. I have reached out and told her my feelings a couple of times, but with no verbal reciprocation. I'm old enough to know that oral sex might not particularly mean anything.

 

She just doesn't like to open up. And that's what I feel I need at this point. And more than sex.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Thanks for the kind words LWP. I have reached out and told her my feelings a couple of times, but with no verbal reciprocation. I'm old enough to know that oral sex might not particularly mean anything.

 

She just doesn't like to open up. And that's what I feel I need at this point. And more than sex.

 

Good for you in figuring out what the problem is! It seems one or the reasons you're posting is to process your thoughts then, and get support for a break up that's imminent, is that right?

[AGoodFriend]

OP: Was your insecurity partly due to your divorce? Was it mainly your ex-wife’s decision? Many men in your situation would spend the next couple of years playing the field to regain their confidence. This woman sounds too much work, if I may be completely honest. You’re too old to babysit her.

 

JuneL thanks for chiming in. Both of my divorces were mutual and amicable. However, I was cheated on by my first real live-in girlfriend. We went on to get married, but that experience has kind of lingered with me and I am always wary in dating type situations.

 

Also, I get attached quickly as you all can see. That's why I am in no rush to regain confidence by sleeping around. I know what I can do sexually, and have no worries. I just worry about getting attached because of sex and intimacy and going through a similar situation that I did in the past. I know it's deep, but many of us carry baggage from the past that influences how we perceive our current relationships.

[AGoodFriend]

Good for you in figuring out what the problem is! It seems one or the reasons you're posting is to process your thoughts then, and get support for a break up that's imminent, is that right?

 

Yes, I have been here before as a contributor and as a poster and the people on this site are incredibly thoughtful and insightful.

 

I am not trying to validate my position in any way, but just get insight from others who have gone through a similar situation.

[chillii]

Yeah l knew if memory was right you said somem in the first post about waiting not bothering you. That's cool l can understand that.

l also thought too , inviting you to church my be something special because l'd imagine as the other poster said , it might be almost family to some people.

[AGoodFriend]

I would normally agree with this! But she's still closed book, closed heart.

 

Honestly I have never known a woman like this, who doesn't open up. Even in my dating past I'd start to learn about women's personal situations, past relationships, etc. That's why I am so flustered. Oh well, first time for everything.

 

I am going to see her in a little while today. Just a light lunch and movie.

Edited April 28, 2019 by AGoodFriend

[AGoodFriend]

OP: Was your insecurity partly due to your divorce? Was it mainly your ex-wife’s decision? Many men in your situation would spend the next couple of years playing the field to regain their confidence. This woman sounds too much work, if I may be completely honest. You’re too old to babysit her.

 

JuneL, I forgot to mention that after my first marriage ended I was 25 and definitely re-sowed my wild oats. But I remember through it all a profound loneliness. That's why this time I'm not looking for that.

[AGoodFriend]

The more I read about this the more I think this entire relationship has been doomed by your insecurities, and you are pushing for the end rather than risking "losing her."

 

I am also starting to wonder if she's waiting to hear an "I love you" before she lets you have intercourse with her.

 

Spot on. I'd rather bow out gracefully and just remain friends than get unceremoniously dumped or led on or worse.

[JuneL]

LWP: But the movie thing happened when the OP was trying to pull back, due to the lack of progress in their relationship.

 

Now it’s different if the girlfriend wants to wait until marriage to have real sex, due to religious or other reasons. They can just have a clear conversation. But she has repeatedly refused to talk and communicate. Didn’t the OP mention she had fwb before?

 

About the church thing. Perhaps she hasn’t had a bf for a long time, and needed to show him off!

 

Another thing: Someone who wants to wait until marriage for sex (due to religious reason?) most likely won’t do the 3rd base thing.

[AGoodFriend]

Another thing: Someone who wants to wait until marriage for sex (due to religious reason?) most likely won’t do the 3rd base thing.

 

Yeah, you are talking a 3-run triple at that.

 

No, it's not religious. I can only surmise that it's a combination of whatever happened to her with her last boyfriend /FWB was extremely crushing or somethibg about me is giving her some huge reservations about getting deeper. And sex at this point would make it very deep.

[AGoodFriend]

Just chiming in here a little late. Dude here. A few thoughts for you to consider:

 

1. There is definitely something *broken* with her. It is probably a past relationship or sexual assault.

 

I think it's sexual assault. I was with her last night and she opened up a little more.

 

I've never met anyone where a past relationship had affected her so much.

 

After last night, I realized that something very bad happened to her.