Any hope dating a man with PTSD?

[Ruby Slippers]

I met somebody in November, and we've been together off and on since then. Romance, sex, and fun are off the charts. In these arenas, he's my dream lover and man.

 

Our biggest disagreements the first few months were over finances. I'm a saver - he's a spender. I have decent savings and minimal debt (just a small car note), whereas he has no savings and some debt. I'm paying off a modest used car - he's leasing a shiny new sports car (waste of money, in my opinion). He made it clear early on he was serious and marriage-minded, and I made it clear I'd never marry a man in a weaker financial position, as it's a liability and a risk in case the marriage doesn't work out.

 

Since then, he's taken fairly dramatic steps to improve his financial standing. He's self-employed and has stepped up his efforts, has been sharing his progress including monthly income with me. He's also started saving a modest amount every month, gradually increasing the amount he's saving. And since he spends so much time at my house, he's started contributing to household bills, even refusing my offers to pay him back for some things he's bought for the house I just bought.

 

So we were on a good run here lately. Then he started picking stupid fights over nothing. I pointed out to him that it seems to me he's self-sabotaging. As soon as things get really good, he's compelled to blow it all up. He agreed that I'm right, and he's been doing this his whole life. The other day he really went over the top and I had to tell him to leave, haven't spoken to him since, just answered a few emails about picking up his stuff.

 

He's a Marine veteran who was seriously injured in combat. You'd never know to look at him, but he endured life-threatening injuries at age 25 (shrapnel to the head/brain and shrapnel that went completely through his knee). He came home 25 years ago with PTSD - depression, anxiety, nightmares, generally feeling lost. He now takes anti-anxiety medication and, sometimes, an anti-depressant as needed. He occasionally wakes me up with his nightmares, but he always calms down immediately with a little soothing touch.

 

There are other issues that concern me. He's super masculine and strong, take charge, physically a badass, which is hard to find and I absolutely love, but he's not the most intelligent and sophisticated guy. Though I felt bad about it afterward, on our first date at a really nice restaurant, we had a small tiff about his table manners and I asked him if he was raised in a barn I could probably live with that, but I'm not sure about the PTSD and tendency to sabotage good things in his life. I'm getting worn out by the ups and downs. At the same time, I recognize that no stable "great on paper guy" I've ever been with delivered so well in the sex, romance, and fun departments.

 

I've wondered if we can't dial this back to something more casual and occasional - but I doubt that, given how super romantic and lovey he is. And really, me, too.

 

Anybody have any experience with this?

Edited April 6, 2019 by Ruby Slippers

[snowcones]

You haven't really been dating very long. I'd give it more time. Time either heals all wounds or makes it clear that it's a lost cause. I'd keep in positive thoughts if I were you and hope for the best. He probably feel insecure because not enough time has passed to confirm that he has nothing to worry about.

[Normm]

Anger issues are common with PTSD. You're probably seeing the tip of the iceberg. Despite the positive qualities, a healthy relationship may be impossible.

[BaileyB]

Just curious, does he have his own place for which he pays the rent/mortgage?

 

I personally don’t have experience dating/living with a person who has PTSD, but what you have described would be concerning to me. I would also wonder if there was an associated head injury, given the injuries you have described. Much respect however, for his service and the trauma that he is having to deal with after his injury.

 

I’m not sure that this relationship will go the distance for you, not necessarily because of the trauma he has experienced but because you have certain expectations and it don’t sound like you are particularly compatible as it relates to your values and the things that are most important in a committed relationship. Hot sex and good times are great - they don’t tend to sustain a couple to have a happy and healthy relationship over time. Finding a partner who is financially stable and responsible is important. And, it sounds like finding a partner who has the financial resources to support a certain lifestyle is very important to you. It’s not really fair to expect him to be something he is not. And if I may, your comment about his table manners was pretty rude.

 

I would think that it’s important for you to tell him how you are feeling - that you don’t really see a long term relationship with him. It’s the fair thing to do.

Edited April 6, 2019 by BaileyB

[preraph]

I'd try a while longer. Thing is, you are getting to that point where if he's been on good behavior and that's a strain for him, he'll be tired of doing it and getting cranky and ready to go back to his old ways. So you'll have to sort out if that is what is happening, and you're just seeing his full self, or if he really is amenable to being shaped a little, as he sound like he is, at least so far, but again, it may be too much for him and he may not stick with it.

 

Hopefully his table manners are better. It's hard to know what you look like eating unless someone films it! I'm sure I'd shudder if I saw myself eating at a nice restaurant (and I eat out frequently). But sometimes that wakes a person up. That stuff, you can work with. Like you can say "Use your napkin" or something when out, but then you can give them a break at home and say, "We're eating chicken with our fingers tonight!"

 

Unless the PTSD becomes violent, I don't see it as being a dealbreaker necessarily. Be sure he stays on his meds and changes them if they aren't working, but of course meds don't cure PTSD. Nothing does except sometimes time and overwriting the old stuff with new nicer stuff. As long as he's not slugging you in his sleep (and I'd be careful about guns in the house), I'd just see if it's livable. I once knew a little bitty woman who had a boyfriend who certainly didn't look like he had been in the military (long hair skinny guitarist) but he would have dreams and slug her in his sleep! You can't be in the same bed with that all night.

 

You didn't go into detail what he blew up about and whether he was the one totally in the wrong or how bad it got, so I might revise my opinion based on if there was some disrespect there or signs of really bad rage.

[Ami1uwant]

I’m not a professional but I recently stayed at a holiday inn express

 

 

He may be on his best behavior. Over time he may go back to his old ways

 

Did you ask him if he’s still seeing a counselor?

Dud you ask him why he took one medicine not every day?

[elaine567]

Face it, you are settling.

He is fine for sex, romance and fun, but he is not good enough for you long term.

Now he has a sting in his tail too.

 

Few "spenders" will put up long term with a "saver" curbing their spending, as it is no fun.

Yes, he may be self-sabotaging, but he may just be "blowing it all up" as essentially he ain't happy.

[Ruby Slippers]

He has his own house and financially supports his elderly mother 100%.

 

My financial concerns are not so much about a lifestyle. I grew up with nothing and have worked hard and been very frugal to get to where I am, having just bought my first home. I'm more concerned about a basic level of stability for the long haul. He's 8 years older than me but hasn't even begun to save for retirement and doesn't seem to have even thought much about it.

 

I've been 100% open and honest about my reservations and concerns all along. Early on I told him plainly when he brought up the subject that I couldn't marry him, given his weaker financial position and habits. He asked me to stick with him as he improved this and other matters. Though I hesitated to do that, as I think relationships work best when both of you can accept the other as you are NOW, not some potential future version, he persuaded me he relished the challenge. He's clearly fired up by a challenge. His friends of decades tell me they've never seen him happier.

 

It's clear he's capable of doing a lot more than he was when I met him. In the past he's dominated in his field, with awards and accolades to prove it. I told him on our first date that he's a beast, and he is. Then, he was recovering from surgery, was kinda soft and had a belly. Since we met, he's gotten back into Marine Corps shape - trim and ripped - and says it's largely thanks to how fired up he feels with me. Almost every night he does a bunch of pushups before bed and tells me to watch. It's very cute and sexy - and hot as hell! He loves being my stud muffin - on this point we completely agree

 

I never asked him to do any of this! I just calmly told him what would and would not work for me, and he essentially said, give me a chance to show you what I can do. The transformation since then has been pretty remarkable.

 

He's never been violent, just anxious and short-tempered. When he gets agitated he raises his voice, picks stupid little fights, and just won't let it go. Though I'm generally very even-keeled and try to stay calm, he keeps at it till I get worked up, too, and push him away, tell him to leave.

 

The latest argument was him criticizing my housekeeping. My house is very clean, but lately I've let some things slide because we've been spending all our free time together, having fun. He says he can be "OCD". Military men are known for their tidyness - and I'm kind of a clean freak, too. He was picking apart small details, being rude, kept escalating the bickering when I was in bed trying to go to sleep. I just felt like - if you don't like the way I keep my house, then quit badgering me and leave so I have more time to take care of my house! When he just would not let up and let me go to sleep, the stress and frustration rose up within me and I jumped out of bed and told him to go home.

 

On settling, he made a comment awhile back about how he didn't want me to "settle for a peasant". We talked about it, and I told him that I've had at least a dozen offers to marry some rich guy who doesn't really even know me, but to me, that would settling. It would be settling to marry into an arrangement of comfort and convenience without real love.

 

I even considered recently that maybe I'll just not marry him and date him forever. It seems ultimately more fulfilling than marrying some good on paper guy.

 

He sees a counselor through the VA once a month. He told me he stopped taking the antidepressant because he doesn’t like the side effects and doesn’t think he needs it anymore.

 

He used to go to a place that hosts various events for “wounded warriors,” says he hasn’t been in a while but found it very therapeutic and should perhaps start going again. I gave him my full support and encouragement.

 

Several times I’ve told him we seem to have too many differences and too much conflict for it to work. But so far he’s eventually convinced me every time to give it another shot. This time I’m really questioning whether that’s wise. Each time I try to approach him with caution, slow it down, but he has a way of sweeping me up into another whirlwind romance. He can be very persuasive with that never say die attitude.

[Ami1uwant]

What have these fight or arguments bern about?

 

Where do you see the isssues?

[emeraldgreen]

Call time on it. Why settle for a laundry list of differences and incompatibilities?

[Gretchen12]

You are doing your share to sabotage the relationship. No one is perfect. You can always pick out some reason to leave someone. He has tried hard and you want to throw in the towel. Maybe you don't love him. Yeah I guess that's what's going on. You have not bonded with him. When you do, you are fundamentally on his side even when you need to stand up to him, you accept him with his faults, and you don't talk of ending it after fighting. But you're not there.

[JuneL]

But what’s the difference between his picking on your housekeeping vs. your picking on his table manners?

[preraph]

Has he been off meds the whole time you're known him? If not, can you see a different from before? If he was improved on meds, I'd be adamant he was on them. There's a million kinds and combinations. You just have to keep your doc informed about what bothers you and give them a chance to adjust the meds.

 

Yeah, I personally could never make it work with any type of OCD housekeeper. I'm just not that domestic. He probably feels that you want him to change certain things so he will tell you what he wants changed. So it all boils down to can you live like that. I'm not doing housework every day, so my answer is no, but I'm not everyone else. Everyone else is likely a better housekeeper than me. My only strength is I don't mess things up. But my dogs do with dog hair everywhere and you can only go so long because of dust, etc. But I don't have clutter except in places I keep clutter, which is out of sight. I do remember growing up being in a couple of Air Force kids' homes and yes, their fathers were tyrants! So strict. Taking out all of that pride they had to eat in basic training on their kids, I guess. But that was decades ago and I don't know if things are looser now with women working and all. I would hope so.

[kendahke]

I'm thinking he's got some hellish experiences that severely changed his paradigms while serving in combat.. One can never know what it's like unless they've experienced it, too--so perhaps his flash and spend is because he knows and has seen friends blown to bits before his eyes and that the next minute isn't promised to anyone and he wants to live in the now, while it's here.

 

 

I'm sorry you're at this crossroads with him. You both are right--but unless some serious compromises on both parts can be worked out, in the long run, you may not be right for each other.

 

 

Does he not have a pension from being in the Marines? What rank was he when he left the service?

Edited April 7, 2019 by kendahke

[kendahke]

The latest argument was him criticizing my housekeeping. My house is very clean, but lately I've let some things slide because we've been spending all our free time together, having fun. He says he can be "OCD". Military men are known for their tidyness - and I'm kind of a clean freak, too. He was picking apart small details, being rude, kept escalating the bickering when I was in bed trying to go to sleep. I just felt like - if you don't like the way I keep my house, then quit badgering me and leave so I have more time to take care of my house! When he just would not let up and let me go to sleep, the stress and frustration rose up within me and I jumped out of bed and told him to go home.

 

Yeah, no... he'd have to get back on some form of medication before he'd be allowed back. You're not deaf--nothing this trivial needs to be repeated and weaponized.

 

If you're going to keep seeing him, maintain separate houses because yeah, dude, you need to take that mess somewhere else.

[Ruby Slippers]

He saw two of his friends killed by a bomb right in front of him.

 

I had the same idea when first getting to know him - after what he's been through, I can understand him spending for in-the-moment enjoyment, rather than planning for long term. I can understand it, but that doesn't change the fact that his spending habits make him a risky prospect for marriage.

 

kendahke, many of your thoughts mirror my own. What's been such a bummer this time is I'm realizing it just doesn't make sense to cohabitate with him, given his compulsion to tear down what we build up.

[Art_Critic]

He agreed that I'm right

 

You are doing your share to sabotage the relationship.

 

I kind of think that if you can't see anything but the bad with the guy then you need to let him go, changing him isn't going to work and if you can't see how you contribute to any issues then it also will deter it from working.

 

It sounds like to me you like the guy, like the sex but don't like WHO HE IS, he can't change that and if you guys got married you won't feel fulfilled with what he offers.

 

Would you consider going to his counselor with him ? maybe a better understanding of what he went through will help and you will understand better what he is dealing with.

[Ruby Slippers]

Of course he has many shining qualities or it would have been easy to move on. It's not just the sex and fun that I love. We have a strong loving connection at the soul level. When times are good we just shower each other with affection, sweetness, support, and healing. In spite of the friction, we have what feels to both of us like true love, something quite precious to a couple of sensitive romantic dreamers. But that doesn't have much bearing on the practicalities of living daily life together, working toward shared goals, mature conflict resolution. This is my dilemma.

 

He emailed this morning and we've been communicating a bit. We seem to do our clearest communication about deeper subjects in writing, with a little time and space to think, I suppose. Eventually he admitted he had overreacted and blown up the situation, apologized for everything, hopes I can forgive him eventually, said he'll continue to pray for the best for me in any case.

 

I did once throw out the idea that we talk to a counselor together, if even some kind of pre-marriage counselor at his or my church. He agreed it made sense, but we never followed through on it. I'm not sure what to do. Right now it seems we both feel pretty bummed and just need to regroup.

[Lotsgoingon]

You got to draw the line on the outbursts. Doesn't matter the reason or cause. You gotta draw a line.

 

By drawing a line, you simply say, Look I cannot be in relationship when you verbally attack me. Can't do it. Love you, think you have all these great qualities, but cannot do this.

 

Great move to ask him to leave the last time. That's a boundary.

 

Basically your job right now is to draw the boundary, set the standard. Then it's his job to figure out on his own or with help or with meds ... how to stop the lashing out ... and how to quickly repair the damage after he does lash out.

 

Here's the thing: ptsd, childhood trauma ... doesn't matter. The best chance for you to encourage him to get on top of this behavior ... is to draw the boundary ... and do NOT be understanding. I have lots of mental illness in my family, lots of trauma. And trust me: going deeper into a relationship armed with the knowledge that he was in war ... and hoping he manages his lashing out ... never works. NEVER!

 

There is a calculating side to deciding who to date seriously. That calculation is: can they be a good partner for me? ... Doesn't matter the reason why they can't be the good partner I want. Draw the boundary and continue to draw the boundary. BTW: you drew a good boundary with money ... and he on his own committed to hustling to improve his money management (not sure of any success or not).

 

If you go further, letting these outbursts slide, and if you start suggesting he get more help, what all too often happens is that he will resent you ... because you're in effect telling him he needs to get help in order to satisfy you. Strangely enough, when we stay away from "treating" others (we don't tell them what help to get) they have much more of a sense of autonomy in getting help themselves.

 

The dynamic you want: him seeking help because he really wants to be with you. This path he's the agent, choosing to act ...

 

The dynamic you don't want: him getting help because you told him if he didn't you would leave him. This path, he's more like a kid ... taking directions from a controlling parent.

 

Subtle ... but huge difference.

 

One major finding of the U.S. military in the past decade of studying PTSD among veterans is that a number of people suffering PTSD had underlying vulnerabilities before going into battle. Some folks join the military for the discipline, to find a purpose ... Peace-time service might work to help ... fighting a modern guerrilla war ... totally the conditions for people with underlying conditions. The point is you don't want to assume his behavior is totally a PTSD thing. He also came from a family with particular ways of communicating and he might have lashed at people before he went into the service.

[Gretchen12]

When times are good we just shower each other with affection, sweetness, support, and healing. In spite of the friction, we have what feels to both of us like true love, something quite precious to a couple of sensitive romantic dreamers. But that doesn't have much bearing on the practicalities of living daily life together, working toward shared goals, mature conflict resolution. This is my dilemma.

 

It has everything to do with the practicalities of daily life together. Anyone can share good times. Your love is only tested when you go through bad times. Everything else is just pretty words. It takes quite a bit of courage to love. Not for the weak.

[Ruby Slippers]

Lotsgoingon, great post. It's funny you called attention to the outbursts, when I just now replied to a message from him communicating that the outbursts are a problem, not something I'm going to deal with at home, a place that I insist be a peaceful environment.

 

As a kid he had a physically abusive stepdad, and the sources of his occasional nightmares are that abuse and battle trauma. To a certain extent I get it. My dad was not physically but verbally/emotionally abusive, and I had recurring nightmares about it until I figured out how to overcome them about 5 years ago. It took a lot of reading and study about dreams and the subconscious, writing and self-reflection to work it all out, though. Most people wouldn't have the inclination or focus, I'd guess.

[SunShineAngels]

May I ask was he married once before? If so, what was the reason of divorce?

I agree other comments give more time to know him, probably another one year and more talk.

Do you know any of his family and friends?

Please also talk to them and observe their impression about him.(I think not need to ask directly)

Edited April 8, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote removed

[Ruby Slippers]

He's never been married, no kids. He's had a few long-term relationships of years. I've only met his mother. She seems very nice and she seems to understand my reservations. She's expressed worry that he and I have been so off and on, but he tells her I'm the woman he wants to be with so she'll have to relax, and she seems to do that pretty well.

 

His mother and my parents say we seem to go together, and in spite of his... quirks, they all really like him. They also understand my reservations.

 

He poured out his heart in an email last night, apologized sincerely, told me some good news in the career arena. I must say that in spite of his issues, I find him pretty irresistible. He's a good guy. It must be love because once I get over my initial emotional reactions, I find it so easy to forgive him.

[fishlips]

I don't really have a problem with people spending money as long as they spend their own and not someone else's. If you marry him, you could always keep your finances separate. That way, you don't get bogged down by his debt. It does sound like he is trying to get his finances on track, though.

 

I think the bigger problem is that he's different from you. That can work if it doesn't bother you, but it it seems to bother you. You can't change who he is, but you can accept him for who he is. It sounds like you are physically attracted to him, but do you love him enough to accept your differences?

 

I don't really have any experience living with someone who has PTSD. It's good he is seeing a counselor. Have you asked his counselor if he can get better with treatment?

[NuevoYorko]

IMO you don't need to be thinking about his PTSD in this context, but rather whether you can live with the behavior.

 

If being with him and all his good qualities are worth dealing with his anger issues, accept that they'll be a part of your life.

 

Hopefully he will get help, but that's on him. You can't go forward based upon the hope or his promises that he'll deal with his problems - or, that attempts to deal with them will even be effective.