Was she just being callous/mean here or was it just my fault?

April 6, 2019

Back in September, she had asked me what I thought about moving down to her state to be with her. She was married, and this was before she had even discussed separation with her husband. We'd been talking for only a year and had only two in person meetings. I wanted desperately to say yes, because I was madly in love with her, but my anxiety was triggered and flared up big time, so my initial response was to refuse. I've lived here my entire life and became so terrified at the idea of leaving all I knew, which was amplified by the anxiety. I wanted it, but something internal was keeping me from it.

I knew I was wrong to say no, so I spent weeks forcing my way past the anxiety and made myself change my mind despite it. About three weeks after the first conversation, and after I had indicated that I was working on saying yes despite the intense fear, she sent me this e-mail:

"I've been thinking...why do I pine over our relationship when you won't even make a leap of faith for our relationship? It's certainly given me a lot of think over. I think this will be my last email for tonight. Maybe even for a while.

I'm not mad. Just thinking like...what's the point?'

I responded that I was sorry, that I couldn't just drop everything without a stable plan in place, that my answer was now yes, but we needed to discuss in depth and determine whether or not it was realistically feasible.

Her response: "A yes through pursed lips isn't exactly what I was looking for."

I called her out for seeming to be insulted my initial answer had been no after all the explaining I had been doing as to why it had been no, and how she was aware of my extreme fears and anxieties over the idea that were no reflection of how I actually felt about her or the idea.

Her response: "I am insulted, because...well, the world doesn't revolve around your fears and anxieties. Sometimes you have to do **** and get **** done regardless of your fears."

I begged her to let me call her and talk it out. We did, and things soon calmed down as we discussed elements and issues related to my anxieties. We actually left that conversation in a good place. She had stopped taking her bipolar meds about this time, claiming they never worked, and attempted suicide five days later, which led to her hospitalization a couple days after that. She didn't tell me about the attempt until after she left the hospital, and I don't believe it was related to our disagreement.

Her last statement in that e-mail is the point of contention here. Was she being callous and cruel and selfish, despite struggling with mental illness herself and despite knowing how strong my fears were, or was I completely in the wrong and she was righteous?

For the record, in December, she started talking to someone else online behind my back and arranged a meeting with him in February just as she was separating from her husband. I found out by accident and after an embarrassing, unbecoming week of begging her to talk things out with me to no avail, I severed contact with her exactly one month ago today.

April 6, 2019

You only met this married woman twice, you are in love and she wants you to relocate and you believe you were wrong for saying no? Actually you were very smart in telling her no.

April 6, 2019

You only met this married woman twice, you are in love and she wants you to relocate and you believe you were wrong for saying no? Actually you were very smart in telling her no.

I feel pretty ashamed of my actions in this entire situation. I was so compromised by loneliness and desire that I just accepted everything she said about her husband at face value. I was wrong to help her cheat, and it's something I'll never do again. We were so...intensely attached to each other. She flew to meet me in my city three months after we started talking and I remember her crying in the airport when she had to leave. She believed we were always going to find our way back to each other, somehow. She cried again months later when I had to leave her city during my visit. Hell, she even covered my airfare because I was so broke at the time.

Part of me still wants to believe that to be true, that she really did love me and I just destroyed it because I was so mentally ill.

April 6, 2019

if she was talking to a man in december doesnt sound like she was pining for you...be at peace...you did right ...she is or was a married woman...no good would come of her with you...if she cheats on her husband...being with you would eventually ...be a re run..one trait of the disease bi polar is lowered inhibitions and promiscuity when not stabilised on meds..pure fact...deb

April 6, 2019

was I completely in the wrong and she was righteous?

Were you wrong not to move cross country to be with a bipolar, off-medication, suicidal married woman - that you'd met twice?

Not sure why you'd need validation, but yes, you made the right decision.

EStreetJC, have you had other relationships with women?

Mr. Lucky

April 6, 2019

I wanted it, but something internal was keeping me from it.

The fear, the anxiety, etc that's your GUT screaming at you NOT to go. Don't ignore your gut instinct, ever. Not going was the right decision.

She isn't divorced, in fact you don't even know if she is actually separated. You've met this woman twice and you're considering moving away from your life, friends and family for someone you barely know?

She sounds like a mess.

April 6, 2019

Were you wrong not to move cross country to be with a bipolar, off-medication, suicidal married woman - that you'd met twice?

Not sure why you'd need validation, but yes, you made the right decision.

EStreetJC, have you had other relationships with women?

Mr. Lucky

My only long-term relationship lasted for two and a half years, and that ended nine years ago. Since then, it's been a couple of casual relationships, a few one-night stands, and a whole lot of first dates that went nowhere.

She just felt so right, so perfect. She awoke things inside me that had long been dormant. She told me I was the only person she was capable of crying over, that we seemed destined to be together. It's already gone, I know, but I'm left with a lot of emotional wreckage to sift through and process.

April 6, 2019

The fear, the anxiety, etc that's your GUT screaming at you NOT to go. Don't ignore your gut instinct, ever. Not going was the right decision.

She isn't divorced, in fact you don't even know if she is actually separated. You've met this woman twice and you're considering moving away from your life, friends and family for someone you barely know?

She sounds like a mess.

Here's a clearer timeline of events in the last few months, since how I wrote it initially was kinda murky:

December 2018: Her marriage was already in the final stages of disintegration. We weren't talking much but communicating by e-mail every now and then. This is apparently when she met this third dude online and may have stopped taking her bipolar meds as well.

January 2019: She came to visit me in my city, a visit which had been planned for several months. She told she and her husband had unofficially separated over the holidays. She seemed uncertain about the future and our relationship, but we were still affectionate towards each other, and it seemed like we were finished leaving each other's lives.

Once she got home, however, she immediately told me she couldn't do it, that she was as unhappy as she'd felt just prior to her hospitalization, and that she "needed to be alone with no commitments." I was left stunned and reeling. We continued to keep in touch but it would sometimes be awkward and stilted. As far as I can gather, she was still talking to Other Guy during this time.

February 2019: Our communication actually started to improve. We were talking more. She and her husband had decided to separate and she had moved out. I was the first person she told on the night it happened. She struggled with the loneliness, saying she was "used to having a built-in best friend" and how she "wanted to fill every minute with something or someone." She even moved back in for a day before leaving again when her husband vaguely threatened to harm her if she left again. I discovered her interactions with Other Dude while idly looking at her Reddit profile, and saw that they had already set a time and place to meet, as he had made a big old post about wonderful she was.

I was crushed and begged and pleaded for one more chance, but she was resolute in how quickly she threw me overboard. It was only slightly better than talking to an actual brick wall, and it was akin to pulling teeth to get her to answer my e-mails. After a miserable, painful week of her freezing me out, I severed all contact. That's where things were left between us.

April 6, 2019

I was crushed and begged and pleaded for one more chance, but she was resolute in how quickly she threw me overboard. It was only slightly better than talking to an actual brick wall, and it was akin to pulling teeth to get her to answer my e-mails. After a miserable, painful week of her freezing me out, I severed all contact. That's where things were left between us.

EStreetJC, it's pretty clear you cared deeply about her, though the wisdom of that certainly open to debate.

But she was simply using you, you were an activity to fill her time and ease her loneliness while she struggled with divorce and mental issues. And as much as you gave, obviously not enough to fill her bucket as she was involved with her husband and suitor #2.

Basically a scam my friend, no different than one of the emails from a Nigerian prince offering riches. Count your blessings you didn't get any more deeply involved and turn your attention to the women around you IRL.

You've dodged the proverbial bullet...

Mr. Lucky

April 6, 2019

Back in September, she had asked me what I thought about moving down to her state to be with her. She was married, and this was before she had even discussed separation with her husband.

This was the point in your story when I knew things were going to end badly for you... why in the world, would you consider moving to be closer to a woman who is married/otherwise committed to another man? Not a wise plan...

Her response: "A yes through pursed lips isn't exactly what I was looking for."

She has a lot of nerve. Most people would have laughed in her face when she told you that she expected you to move your life to be closer to her, when she is not available for a relationship.

She had stopped taking her bipolar meds about this time, claiming they never worked, and attempted suicide five days later, which led to her hospitalization a couple days after that. She didn't tell me about the attempt until after she left the hospital, and I don't believe it was related to our disagreement.

This explains her total lack of insight, self-awareness, grandiose and self-centered thinking when she told you that it was a good idea for you to move closer to her and then became angry when you had a the good sense to tell her that you would not do it...

For the record, in December, she started talking to someone else online behind my back and arranged a meeting with him in February just as she was separating from her husband. I found out by accident and I severed contact with her exactly one month ago today.

This confirms that you made the right decision. This is not a woman in whom you want to place your trust.

My friend, you really need to look at the reasons why you found yourself in this kind of situation with an unstable, mentally ill, unavailable woman... Seriously, that's some pretty poor decision making and you need to learn how to be a better judge of character in the future. Thank goodness, you had the good sense to end it.

April 6, 2019

OMG, she's a classic mentally ill master gaslighter! She has you feeling bad for not leaving everything and everyone and moving to her, a MARRIED woman who is cheating every which way while she's married before a divorce that may never happen at all unless her husband is paying attention.

You are gullible. You don't know this woman and you've idealized her and put all her huge faults and issues off to the side as irrelevant and trying to stick to your script of who she REALLY is, which isn't true. You just saw who she really is: A cheating married woman with severe mental illness who bullies and plays games with men online and gaslights them into thinking they're not manly because they have a lick of common sense!

Wake UP! Block this nutball.

April 6, 2019

OMG. She has you feeling bad for not leaving everything and everyone and moving to her, a MARRIED woman who is cheating every which way while she's married before a divorce that may never happen at all unless her husband is paying attention.

This just made me laugh out loud... well said.

April 6, 2019

OMG, she's a classic mentally ill master gaslighter! She has you feeling bad for not leaving everything and everyone and moving to her, a MARRIED woman who is cheating every which way while she's married before a divorce that may never happen at all unless her husband is paying attention.

You are gullible. You don't know this woman and you've idealized her and put all her huge faults and issues off to the side as irrelevant and trying to stick to your script of who she REALLY is, which isn't true. You just saw who she really is: A cheating married woman with severe mental illness who bullies and plays games with men online and gaslights them into thinking they're not manly because they have a lick of common sense!

Wake UP! Block this nutball.

I'm definitely guilty of idealizing her. The thing is, I feel like I *did* know her, because we spent hours texting/calling most days for eighteen months. Among all the joking and laughing and sweet talk, she'd tell me all the reasons why her marriage was bad, why her husband was an emotionally neglectful bastard, and I'd counsel her through them because I loved her and I believed she was a good person who had just gotten herself into a bad situation. Honestly, I still kinda believe that to be the case, maybe because I can't bring myself to fathom the alternative. She came to realize she had gotten married because she wanted to be normal (her background was tumultuous, to say the least) and I can certainly understand that.

She cited my depression/anxiety as a reason for why she had to disconnect from me. I refused to get help, because I didn't want to admit to myself how bad it was and I thought I could lick it on my own, like so many lost souls before me. I can't fault her for it, after all the chances she gave me, but the way she went about it was incredibly selfish and kind of deceitful and ensured she got to have her cake and eat it too. How she handled the end has called many events during our relationship into serious question, this being one of them.

For what it's worth, I'm now in therapy, but for myself, not to try to please her/get back with her. I have loftier goals now, like embracing happiness for my own sake.

Edited April 6, 2019 by EStreetJC

April 6, 2019

I am positive that if you had been face to face with her this last year, you'd have quickly encountered her dark side and took off running. People are totally different in person and they can't hide their body language and initial reactions to something you say or hold their tongue like they can when editing written word.

So my feeling is you were just getting to know her. Psychologists say we only know 40 percent of a person when we haven't met them, and that's true. In person, you might see she treats her husband cruelly or is a smart mouth or doesn't take care of her pets or is rarely happy and fun. Anyway, glad you're in counseling, but your idealism of her really blinded you and you overlooked how badly she was treating you and playing with your mind. Hope you can look back a year from now and breathe a sign of relief that it went no further.

April 6, 2019

I'm definitely guilty of idealizing her. The thing is, I feel like I *did* know her, because we spent hours texting/calling most days for eighteen months. Among all the joking and laughing and sweet talk, she'd tell me all the reasons why her marriage was bad, why her husband was an emotionally neglectful bastard, and I'd counsel her through them because I loved her and I believed she was a good person who had just gotten herself into a bad situation. .

All just words... Easy to say, they require no commitment or action.

In all fairness, many people fall for this... it’s easy to develop a false sense of intimacy with someone when you are long distance and talking over telephone, text, or FaceTime. But, the truth is - relationships are built in person. You don’t truly know someone until you meet and spend a significant amount of time with that person. You don’t truly know someone until you have seen them happy, sad, stressed, angry, sick, etc...

There were a lot of red flags you missed here or chose to minimize - the fact that she was married and dealing with a significant mental illness... dealbreakers for most people.

For what it's worth, I'm now in therapy, but for myself. I have loftier goals now, like embracing happiness for my own sake.

Good for you! Wish you all the best...

April 7, 2019

I can't fault her for it, after all the chances she gave me

Chances to do what? Come get personally involved in her chaos and drama? Compete up close with online Romeo #2?

There were a lot of red flags you missed here or chose to minimize - the fact that she was married and dealing with a significant mental illness... dealbreakers for most people.

EStreetJC, the important takeawy here isn't about her, it's about you. You blew through enough red flags to start your own construction company. Rather than spending time wondering why she's acted as she has, you should be considering your own poor choices and decisions so you can avoid similar situations in the future...

Mr. Lucky

April 8, 2019

So you find yourself questioning the sanctity of a married woman who is cheating on her husband whilst cheating on you as well. You've only met her twice, she lives out of state and she's demanding you to uproot and live closer to her....

OP, do the words TRAIN WRECK mean anything to you?

April 8, 2019

For what it's worth, I'm now in therapy, but for myself, not to try to please her/get back with her. I have loftier goals now, like embracing happiness for my own sake.

Good. This woman was a NIGHTMARE.

Do not date married people. Avoid long distance relationships. They require a tremendous amount of trust & patience. If you suffer from anxiety & depression trying to do an LDR will just aggravate the worst parts of your conditions & you will not get the benefits of any physicality.

You will be OK but you do need to do a lot of self reflection to figure out why you think she was good for you.

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Was she just being callous/mean here or was it just my fault?

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