Clarity80 Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Here's a tough one for me. Background on us. I'm 36, she's 26. We're both born and raised in NYC. She recently moved to where I actually live and we met through a Jewish community group. About a month ago she wanted to go to a new hot spot that just opened. We were chatting for a bit while we were waiting for our activity to start, hey, do you want to go to this place with me? I was taken back a bit as it's rare a younger woman asks me out point blank. I said sure and she took my phone and texted her phone from mine. I called a few days later and wanted setup a time to meetup, she couldn't that week, but we met up the week after. She dressed nice and looked great. She came over and greeted me with a hug and we sat down at the bar. Chatted a bit and she was laughing and smiling. Since it was a weekday and she drove to the place, we left about 2 hours later; her call. I put her coat on her and walked her to the car. She called me such a gentlemen and gave me another hug and drove off. A week later we met at another event and we were chatting and she said we should go back again, I said sure. I texted her the next day and said hey, when are you free to go back to the place? She said Monday works for her. Okay, I'll pick you up and she gave me her address. I picked her up and she dressed similar but this time had on perfume; though she said it was her shampoo. It filled up the entire car. I said it smelled nice. We got to the place, but for some reason it was closed. She suggested we can go to another bar, but I knew she loved wine and I said I know this cute little wine bar down the street. So we hopped in to the car and headed over. We sat at the bar and ordered wine. I suggested the red, but she picked the white. After sampling mine, she said I should had ordered yours. Next round she did. She seemed to have her shields up a bit, but that could just be how I am interpreting it. She did say I have a big big ego, but I am a bit sensitive at times. We both like to cook and I said we should cook one day. She said, yes that would be cool. We then talked about our favorite books and movies and had a slight miss-understanding on a book where she misunderstood what I was trying to describe about the book. She proclaimed that she was a feminist and proud of it. I said, that all fine and good, but I think I didn't word my words correctly, but that's okay. Things got light and airy again and we discussed one of our favorite movies which was filmed where we both grew up. About 2 hours later she said you ready to go? I said sure, but I was caught by surprise, she took out her debt card, but I said I got this. We drove back to her house and I dropped her off. She gave me a hug and left the car. There was no opening for a kiss or attempt of kiss. My friends think I should just shoot her a text and say hey, let's get together next weekend and cook a meal for each to enjoy. I am not the fence because by now I usually kiss the girl, but I've never went on a second date without kissing the girl on the first. We were talking about sexual topics and she was smiling and laughing, so she's not a prude. I even joked, yea, I guess you're one of those prudish types of girls from the neighborhood during drinks earlier in the night. She said, hardly. You don't know, but I am not a prude. With that said, I am lost in terms of how to proceed. When I text her, she responds back within 10 - 20 mins, and she was a bit flirty on the texts the night before, but maybe she had bad day on Monday? I am not sure. Usually, every date I've had texted me one way or another that they had a good time. Never heard from her on that aspect either. She's a pretty direct person and tells you whats on her mind. So, I am a bit tongue tied on her feelings. Open to ideas and suggestions.
emeraldgreen Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Sounds pretty bland to me and you're not on the same page about a few things. No IOIs and she called time on the second date. I'd pursue other options. Nothing to do with the date itself here but, personally, if a woman smells great and it seems un-creepy to say so, I just say "You smell great/amazing" rather than mention the perfume. Let her take that compliment personally as she smells great. 1
Author Clarity80 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Posted April 4, 2019 Sounds pretty bland to me and you're not on the same page about a few things. No IOIs and she called time on the second date. I'd pursue other options. Nothing to do with the date itself here but, personally, if a woman smells great and it seems un-creepy to say so, I just say "You smell great/amazing" rather than mention the perfume. Let her take that compliment personally as she smells great. She did say thank you, but she said it was her shampoo, not perfume.
preraph Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Just not sure she's sure about you yet. That crack calling her a prude wasn't very smart. It sounds like you are both kind of not meshing with each other well enough. Next time she asks you out, say, Okay, but only if I get a kiss at the end of the date.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Posted April 4, 2019 Just not sure she's sure about you yet. That crack calling her a prude wasn't very smart. It sounds like you are both kind of not meshing with each other well enough. Next time she asks you out, say, Okay, but only if I get a kiss at the end of the date. It was just a joke, she thought it was funny. It was said in slapstick comedy. I just do not know if it's worth throwing out the invite in coming over and cooking (she's a vegan chef, I'm a chef in a restaurant too). I was thinking on just hanging back and see if she reaches out to say hi or something. We'd not see each other again until the end of April because we meet in a group a couple times of month.
manfrombelow2 Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Next time, if you want to kiss her, just do it. And like I said, you either kiss her or do nothing, you don't "hug" her. Hugs are for buddies, not for potentially romantic and sexual partner.
preraph Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Well, it does seem logical that you'd want to cook together. Any chance she's just trying to make professional contacts to do with cheffing, expanding her network, hoping to have more options? Just a thought.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Posted April 5, 2019 Well, it does seem logical that you'd want to cook together. Any chance she's just trying to make professional contacts to do with cheffing, expanding her network, hoping to have more options? Just a thought. Let me reclassify. I am an actual chef who went to cooking school and works at a restaurant. She's a chef that turned vegan. She does Youtube videos, but has a tenured career as an elementary school teacher. I even asked if she'd try to go and be a chef for a career, she said no. She does it for a lifestyle and some side money on Youtube. She has like 33k subscribers, so she's making some loot. She knows its my birthday next Tuesday, so I can wait to see if she texts me happy birthday and see if she'd want to do a cooking date, but I've never been so confused in my life on how to proceed. She is flirty when were at the activities, but something was off on Monday when we went for drinks again. She even said if you drive I (she) could drink and enjoy her time more not having to worry about driving home drunk. Overall I am not sure about anything.
basil67 Posted April 5, 2019 Posted April 5, 2019 The kiss thing....my advice is to only kiss if there's that lingering mutual chemistry. Nothing more revolting than being kissed by someone who you're that into. The way you describe things, it sounds like there isn't chemistry at this time. Would this be a fair assumption?
preraph Posted April 5, 2019 Posted April 5, 2019 So did she drink at all? Maybe hope personality changes after she's had a few drinks. But if you already seen her drink then no. Are you going to ask her out next or wait and see if she asks you out? On this next date maybe you should do something active.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Posted April 5, 2019 The kiss thing....my advice is to only kiss if there's that lingering mutual chemistry. Nothing more revolting than being kissed by someone who you're that into. The way you describe things, it sounds like there isn't chemistry at this time. Would this be a fair assumption? I don't know. I mean, she's very animated and expressions in public, but there was really no opening for me to move in for a kiss. We basically never broke eye contact, and when I respectfully caressed her arms, she didn't turn away on the first or second date. When I took her hand, there wasn't any pull away either. It just seemed like there was a forcefield up on her and that's why I a bit taken back. She said if I'd pick her up she wouldn't have to worry about drunk driving, so she'd drink more and be more relaxed. She seemed stiff a bit, and when she said she was a feminist, I didn't know how to respond and I said, great. I'm for gender equality too. I said to myself, what does that have to do with anything? When she said she was up for doing something again I think I had a shocked look on my face as I said I didn't even know you had a good time. She said she did with a smile. She offered to pay both times, so I didn't know how to handle that either, so I just covered both tabs; it wasn't that expensive. 15 bucks each date. When I suggested we should cook one day, she was up for it. She asked how far do I live from her. But, I really cannot read her interest. This was the first time I dated a woman twice and I never had a text after either date. My intuition is telling me to see if she reaches out on my birthday and then I can see if she'd be interested in doing a cooking date. However, my friends are telling me to back off and let it marinate. See what happens when you see her in a few weeks. Let her bring up doing something again. So, I do not know. She's always very direct, so I'd think she'd tell me hey, you're great, but I am not interested. So, again, so confused.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Posted April 5, 2019 So did she drink at all? Maybe hope personality changes after she's had a few drinks. But if you already seen her drink then no. Are you going to ask her out next or wait and see if she asks you out? On this next date maybe you should do something active. She had 2 glasses of wine on the first and second date. I tried to invite her the Saturday two weeks ago to meet up for mini-golf, but she said she already had plans. Turns out, she let it go that she went jogging and jogged like 20 miles or something. I only put two and two together the next day. When she told me, I was a bit buzzed, so I didn't put it together at the same time. On the date, I told her I am going to a wine and painting class at 12pm on Saturday and she should drop by. After all, she can literally walk to the class. It's like 2 blocks from her apt. She said she would, but she didn't know if she was doing something and didn't want to flake on anyone. I was debating if I should end the date there, but I had in the back of my mind just let it roll off your back and not effect you. The dates were always on a weekday, which was very suspect to me as well. So, I do not know. I just don't know why she'd agree to a second date if there was no interest. Furthermore, why she'd want to come over to my place and cook with me. Makes no sense.
Inspire Posted April 5, 2019 Posted April 5, 2019 A first kiss isn't always necessary after a first date. Going beyond a second date though is a little suspect. Honestly you need to make an opening for the kiss and make the attempt. Most women aren't going to make the move. Does she touch you, or move in really close to you?
Author Clarity80 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Posted April 5, 2019 A first kiss isn't always necessary after a first date. Going beyond a second date though is a little suspect. Honestly you need to make an opening for the kiss and make the attempt. Most women aren't going to make the move. Does she touch you, or move in really close to you? Touch yes, she touched more on the first date than the second IIRC. In past dates, the woman does linger a bit or tilts her head after a hug and I go in for a kiss. On both dates, her head was to the side. I wasn't going to say, wait, come here, and then attempt. It sounds so weird. I was on a date another woman a few weeks earlier and she gave me a hug, so I assumed no interest. I did reach out a day or two later I did text her for another date, and she said let me check my schedule (I.E. no), and I let it be. This one not only went on a second date, but told me in person, we should go back there. That is why I was perplexed. Technically, I guess she asked me twice, and I even said on the first date you asked me out.. I think I said this on the second date too; she didn't deny it or anything. So maybe she didn't think it was an official date? So, I really do not know. I go out on dates a few times a month. This has been the first one I've ever had where a woman asked me out twice and I didn't even get to kiss her. I understand that feminists say what they mean and are direct; which I like. But they don't enjoy kissing? I'm a good kisser too. It's one of my strong suits. I just feel like an idiot reaching out again seeing if she wants to hang out. Let me explain how the date setup worked. She told me in public, around other people, hey you want to go to so and so. I text her a day or two later and we made plans for next week. The first one was a Wednesday, and two weeks later was this past Monday. So I guess she suggested the place and I coordinated plans. Another thing. She said she had this great tune in her head and she was going to sing it to me on the ride to the bar. She got in, she said she wasn't up for it. She said, after I have a few drinks in me (her), maybe then. Nope. She was going off on it the night before on texts. So bubbly and engaging. As soon as she got in my car, I just felt a different vibe than on the first date or in public with everyone else. Maybe she had a stressful day? Not for nothing, I did take her out twice, not a text saying she had a good time or thank you. I thought that was weird too. Even my dates where nothing materialized they thanked me for a good time. So, yea, I don't know. I'm flying blind here.
Inspire Posted April 5, 2019 Posted April 5, 2019 Did she say "thank you" while you were out with her? As in, thank you for dinner ... something along those lines.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Did she say "thank you" while you were out with her? As in, thank you for dinner ... something along those lines. We did drinks both times, no food. She said she thanked me the 1st time, I do not recall hearing it. I know the second time I said I got it, she just put her card away. We were chatting about sexual topics as well. She blushed on a few of them. I was going to get a table so we could be alone, but for some reason I picked the bar and it was in the middle of everything, so no privacy near the entrance. I am kicking myself I didn't attempt to find a kiss somewhere, but I couldn't really find an opening and she left the car right after the hug, no pause or anything. She even said she got a nice buzz from the wine that I picked for the both of us. She actually got one I suggested she didn't select and then took a sip of mine and at the same time we said the red is better. So the next cup was red wine. I had three cups so I was really buzzed. It was really good wine. I do not drink a lot, so even at 185 lbs, three glasses did give me a buzz. I switched to water and then we left. The fact that shed ended both dates at 1.5 - 2 hours or so was a bit bothersome, but I let it not phase me. I did enjoy her company and we were talking a lot of the old neighborhood even though we're 10 years or so apart in age. She also said she liked that I had a big ego (I didn't know I did) and that I was attractive. She said I do not look my age, I look like I'm in my 20s. And I said she didn't look her age either, she looked older. She claimed she got carded a lot. I think it may had come out wrong. She also told me a secret. A sexual secret about a certain part of her body and then she said I'm not saying anymore with a smirk. So your guess is as good as mine. I guess I fcked up the date. I'm just going to remain quiet and act normal around her when I see her again in two weeks. Now reading above, I made a huge mistake with sitting at the bar instead of a table. No chance of a kiss right near the entrance with the host 2 feet away. I'm such a moron. Edited April 5, 2019 by Clarity80 I'm a moron
Inspire Posted April 5, 2019 Posted April 5, 2019 If she is running out of the car after the hug, then that isn't a great sign ....
Author Clarity80 Posted April 6, 2019 Author Posted April 6, 2019 If she is running out of the car after the hug, then that isn't a great sign .... She didn't run, I'm not swap thing. She hugged for a few seconds and left the car. She didn't even hurry across the street. I'm just going to hang back and hopefully regain my dignity to see everyone in 2 weeks. If not, I'll just find another group. I have no issues with rejection, but this experience was surreal for me. I blame myself 100%.
Simple Logic Posted April 6, 2019 Posted April 6, 2019 Reading your posts I am not sure you were on a date.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 6, 2019 Author Posted April 6, 2019 Reading your posts I am not sure you were on a date. I guess that is good reasoning. She had no problems going along with it. Asking me to pick her up, and I paid for the drinks.. It's okay... I even feel like a bigger idiot. Guess I need to drop off for a while lol.. Loving being played like a fool.
manfrombelow2 Posted April 6, 2019 Posted April 6, 2019 No one "played" you here. You need to take ownership for your own mistake and failure, that is if you want the same mistake not to repeat itself. She was interested in you enough to go on a date with you, it was you who was too nervous to give her a kiss. Deal with it. Loving being played like a fool.
oceanblue12 Posted April 6, 2019 Posted April 6, 2019 It's never a bad thing to simply go with the flow and treat a lady LIKE A LADY....all good things do come to those that wait
Author Clarity80 Posted April 6, 2019 Author Posted April 6, 2019 No one "played" you here. You need to take ownership for your own mistake and failure, that is if you want the same mistake not to repeat itself. She was interested in you enough to go on a date with you, it was you who was too nervous to give her a kiss. Deal with it. I wasn't blaming her, I was blaming me. I have no problems kissing a woman, if I feel the signs. I just felt her guard was up so I didn't go for it. In my previous experience, I can usually gauge a woman's interest in being kissed. I couldn't read her at all, so I didn't go for it. Plus, when she ended the date a second time, I said it wasn't worth the further humility. She seemed closed off since she got into the car on Monday, where the first date she was more open. I'm just backing away. I feel like a fool due to myself possibly misreading the situation and / or not being aggressive enough. The kicker is she still wants to come over and cook. During the date, she took my phone and was looking through my pics, she then started taking some of her and then of me and her at the end of the date. I then put the phone back in my pant pocket and then she said aren't you going to delete them? I said no. Why would I? I thought that was weird. Just going to fadeaway. This is a big city. I can find other people to hang with. Not going to mess with dating and social gathering again either. The interesting thing is I wasn't going to ask her out as it didn't even strike me that she'd be interested. I was shocked that she asked me, so I agreed. But then the chasing game began. It's all in the past, so lesson learned.
Author Clarity80 Posted April 6, 2019 Author Posted April 6, 2019 It's never a bad thing to simply go with the flow and treat a lady LIKE A LADY....all good things do come to those that wait How did I not treat her like a lady? I didn't break her boundaries and I didn't force a kiss on her? I am just saying, she was much for flirty on the 1st date or meet and in pubic with other people than on the 2nd date or meet. I was not going to ask her again to do something, but said let's go back. So that was, again, the only reason why I setup a second date or meet.
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