Anyway back from this?

[Moves Like Jagger]

I never understood why online daters are so obsessed with these apps and online dating websites that they continue to cling to them even though it's not working for them. The only guys I know that thrive on Tinder are guys that are in the top 20% of looks. Why can't these struggling online daters go from 100% online dating to 80% online dating and 20% cold approach? OP is not getting enough matches to improve and change things up.

 

I think what's happening in these dates is the OP isn't leading on the dates and the women quickly lose interest. I never understand why people give advice about having blah coffee dates. Some introvert guy takes that advice and has a hard time getting a second date.

[ZA Dater]

Dude, you totally self sabotaged this. You sabotaged it by going on the date and making sure that it was as miserable as your day at work. And then, you gave her some lame excuse about your lack of experience and basically bowed out of the situation before you either had to rise to the occasion or before she told you it wasn’t going to work.

 

The advice she gave you is exactly what we have all been trying to tell you all along... it’s exactly what you have been trying to do, going on all these dates. If you want a relationship, you just have to keep doing it- until... Or, you don’t. Either way, it’s entirely your decision.

 

What you don’t want to do is continue dipping your toe in the water, pulling it out and complaining endlessly to anyone who will listen about how cold the water is, how you want to swim but you don’t really want to get wet, and how you will never be able to enjoy the pool like the other people because you don’t know how to swim.

 

And I agree with Elaine - you may have no experience with relationships or sex, but you are one of the most experienced “daters” on this site...

 

 

 

I actually did try at this date, it simply did not work at all. At no point did I get the sense she actually liked me. I then told he the next day that I am not good at dating and got the reply I posted. It quite clearly was not going to work because it never does so why would this be any different? Pretty 36yo with loads of options, not like I am going to be the preferred option...people say "oh you can get this and that", frankly its rubbish each of us knows what is gettable and what is not, mostly I like tying to get what I cant get to try and prove that whole thing wrong.

 

 

Probably if you spend long enough alone, doing things on your own its becomes normal so anything else is abnormal but at least I know why most of those dates have never worked so maybe this date was of some use after all.

 

 

Still don't get why I cant be honest, what is so bad about that, if as posters keep telling me people are so nice then it wouldn't matter would it, experience wouldn't matter, in fact I was categorically told here it didn't matter....

 

 

Having many dates doesn't make me experienced because mostly I have no idea what I should be doing at those dates, unless its someone I click with which is very rare.

[ZA Dater]

I never understood why online daters are so obsessed with these apps and online dating websites that they continue to cling to them even though it's not working for them. The only guys I know that thrive on Tinder are guys that are in the top 20% of looks. Why can't these struggling online daters go from 100% online dating to 80% online dating and 20% cold approach? OP is not getting enough matches to improve and change things up.

 

I think what's happening in these dates is the OP isn't leading on the dates and the women quickly lose interest. I never understand why people give advice about having blah coffee dates. Some introvert guy takes that advice and has a hard time getting a second date.

 

 

Cold approach= 100% failure rate because you have no idea if the person is single or not and chances are if she is pretty she is not single. Walking around today, all these couples and got to be honest I couldn't be bothered. Its not like the introvert guy has any chance with the tall blond so the best he can do is take a fleeting look before taking a look at what is matching on line.

[ZA Dater]

Why did you bother telling her about your lack of experience?

What was that going to accomplish?

 

 

 

It was being honest. You can say what you want but people pick that up about me quickly so better to just own it than pretend it doesn't exist. The same applies to me not drinking, I own that. If people don't like this then so be it.

[BaileyB]

I actually did try at this date, it simply did not work at all.

 

If as posters keep telling me people are so nice then it wouldn't matter would it, experience wouldn't matter, in fact I was categorically told here it didn't matter....

 

Having many dates doesn't make me experienced because mostly I have no idea what I should be doing at those dates, unless its someone I click with which is very rare.

 

My friend, you are not going to “click” with everyone - no harm done if it doesn’t work out.

 

She was being kind, and she gave you some feedback. She told you that she could see that you were inexperienced, she didn’t say that was why she didn’t want to see you again. If the date didn’t go well for you, she probably felt the same way - you just didn’t click. And just because she could tell that you were inexperienced doesn’t mean that with the right person it will matter...

 

And, a date is a date. There is nothing different about “how to” date - it’s only, when you meet the right person it seems to come a little more naturally... it’s a little more fun. Whereas when you don’t “click,” it can sometimes feel like the longest night of your life.

[ZA Dater]

My friend, you are not going to “click” with everyone - no harm done if it doesn’t work out.

 

She was being kind, and she gave you some feedback. She told you that she could see that you were inexperienced, she didn’t say that was why she didn’t want to see you again. If the date didn’t go well for you, she probably felt the same way - you just didn’t click. And just because she could tell that you were inexperienced doesn’t mean that with the right person it will matter...

 

And, a date is a date. There is nothing different about “how to” date - it’s only, when you meet the right person it seems to come a little more naturally... it’s a little more fun. Whereas when you don’t “click,” it can sometimes feel like the longest night of your life.

 

 

No, the very reason she wasn't into me was lack of confidence and lack of experience. Which have been issues I have brought up here before to be told "it doesn't matter", clearly it does actually matter.

 

 

I wonder really if the pay industry would be as big as it is if the dating world was a little bit better. Pay dates don't interest me but 15 year of getting nowhere at all makes me realise why people do go down that road. Can you give me an example of what makes a date "fun" for you?

 

 

Sure, but I never click with anyone who I like, I am looking at Tinder now and every match is someone I have no interest in at all (I don't bother swiping but rather use the boost function to try find matches), then again I went out the other night and its always the same type of guys with the same type of ladies. Which I suppose should be a hint to me or a hit across the face.

 

 

Is everything about this so prescribed? Now this date is offering to "coach" me but that I take as becoming someone's pity project and I have been there often enough to know it does not work.

[elaine567]

Like hands on coaching, (literally maybe) or online coaching?

[ZA Dater]

Like hands on coaching, (literally maybe) or online coaching?

 

 

 

Nothing specific, I called her on it and no details were forthcoming so its just clearly one of those "I'll say this to make him feel better".

 

 

I just don't feel comfortable with her, as much as I try and hide it that awkwardness is there. There were too many awkward silences.

 

 

Rather fancifully I asked her what she was looking for and got a very non specific answer. There was just no topic we could really talk about, I tried really I did and what irritates me is another guy would have done 100% better than me for the simple reason he knew what he was doing. Me, I just go to these dates for conversation and see if the person is interested in me, they never are.

 

 

So lets say I get date three, I ran out of things to say at date 2 so what do I do on date three. Rightly or wrongly I believe there needs to be some glue, unless its all physical attraction but I have written that off so the best I hope to accomplish is a good intellectual connection which is hard to find.

 

 

Is everything about dating centred on the physical? I ask this because almost never have I got any decent intellectual connection from these people.

[elaine567]

To tell the truth a lot of dating is about the physical, and the physical can actually cover up a lack of intellectual connection.

It is why when the lust is gone, it all fizzles out.

 

By excluding alcohol and "sex", you will always have an uphill struggle to keep women interested.

Women love to feel wanted and desired, so while most will be turned off by guys groping them and obviously wanting sex early doors, women still want that undercurrent of sexual tension and excitement.

Without it they feel rejected and will get bored, so a second date is off the table.

[ZA Dater]

To tell the truth a lot of dating is about the physical, and the physical can actually cover up a lack of intellectual connection.

It is why when the lust is gone, it all fizzles out.

 

By excluding alcohol and "sex", you will always have an uphill struggle to keep women interested.

Women love to feel wanted and desired, so while most will be turned off by guys groping them and obviously wanting sex early doors, women still want that undercurrent of sexual tension and excitement.

Without it they feel rejected and will get bored, so a second date is off the table.

 

Yea well I suppose that's another reason it doesn't work for me, there is more to it than physical looks. I did once meet someone who just had it all, looks, personality, just ap great all round person. To get those people though you need to be exceptional enough for them to notice.

 

I get bored if the person isn't interesting to me and I think ideally I'd probably need someone I can work with on projects. Probably people wonder why I don't chase tail, simply because nobody is going to accept an inexperienced 35yo so I'd rather not go there than look like an idiot. Is there really no middle ground?

[ZA Dater]

To tell the truth a lot of dating is about the physical, and the physical can actually cover up a lack of intellectual connection.

It is why when the lust is gone, it all fizzles out.

 

By excluding alcohol and "sex", you will always have an uphill struggle to keep women interested.

Women love to feel wanted and desired, so while most will be turned off by guys groping them and obviously wanting sex early doors, women still want that undercurrent of sexual tension and excitement.

Without it they feel rejected and will get bored, so a second date is off the table.

 

Also amazing that I must keep them interested yet they don't have to do the same.

[ZA Dater]

I just think inevitably I want the people I am least likely to be able to get, for example I really like the yoga instructor but never made any moves on her, glad I didn't because she was chasing another guy, just liked her as a person.

 

 

Perhaps for me success is actually finding someone I like, irrespective if they like me.

 

 

Sounds odd but when I spent time with her I actually felt happy, she has this infectious outgoing, non judgemental personality. But alas.

 

 

So yes, I will re adjust me sense of what I consider to be dating success, maybe if I do that the whole thing will become more "fun", albeit completely pointless.

[chillii]

Well there ya go . That mightn't have gone on to anything and she might've been after someone else, but that happens to all of us.

Thing is , now you've met someone that works for you and you know better now the sort of thing you like and need.

 

So from now on you look for roughly that type of thing with those traits and combos in women you choose to try with. But next time or sooner or later, you'll be the one the next one wants to chase, not someone else, and you'll be on the right track.

[ZA Dater]

Now she is determined to try and coach me "you need to approach 3 girls this week, maybe try look for younger ones in their 20s, they might be a better fit for an inexperienced guy".

 

 

Didn't take long to become some sort of curiosity project.

 

 

The only thing that happens when people do this is I think about everything even more and when I do that I strip away all the emotive aspects and what is left really, to me, amounts to a lot of nonsense. All that's left are the tangible things, how much money you have, do you have nice things, where can you take them on holiday etc.

 

 

When I then look at it from that point of view idea makes no sense in terms of ROI. What do I get out of it, very little unless the person wows me to some extent but I have already determined that a lot of wow is very unattainable.

 

 

Is the physical aspect really worth all this effort? I don't know, most probably not.

[NuevoYorko]

Now she is determined to try and coach me "you need to approach 3 girls this week, maybe try look for younger ones in their 20s, they might be a better fit for an inexperienced guy".

 

 

Didn't take long to become some sort of curiosity project.

You can take full credit for that, having presented and doggedly reconfirmed to her your lack of experience; which I take exception to, as there are dozens of threads here where you explain your dating experiences. That counts as "experience," even if the dates did not result in what you're looking for, and / or you learned nothing to draw on as you move on to future dates.

 

Look. You need to think about what you have to offer these women you get dates with. I'm talking about in real time. You have explained here that you are good looking, smart and a fine person. Cool. Still - what does this mean to a woman you've just met? What is it that you're bringing that makes a person feel that they want to experience more of it?

 

Clearly you have social problems. There are plenty of ways that you can improve on your social skills. Learning how to have fun and bring some pleasure to your social encounters is a positive thing. It doesn't mean that you're being untrue to yourself, any more than learning to read would be dishonoring your true self if you happened to be illiterate.

 

It's called "self improvement."

[ZA Dater]

You can take full credit for that, having presented and doggedly reconfirmed to her your lack of experience; which I take exception to, as there are dozens of threads here where you explain your dating experiences. That counts as "experience," even if the dates did not result in what you're looking for, and / or you learned nothing to draw on as you move on to future dates.

 

Look. You need to think about what you have to offer these women you get dates with. I'm talking about in real time. You have explained here that you are good looking, smart and a fine person. Cool. Still - what does this mean to a woman you've just met? What is it that you're bringing that makes a person feel that they want to experience more of it?

 

Clearly you have social problems. There are plenty of ways that you can improve on your social skills. Learning how to have fun and bring some pleasure to your social encounters is a positive thing. It doesn't mean that you're being untrue to yourself, any more than learning to read would be dishonoring your true self if you happened to be illiterate.

 

It's called "self improvement."

 

 

 

Or really its deciding I prefer the pursuit of material things.

 

 

Be that as it may I don't think there is much to learn because all these people have been totally different, there are no commonalities between them at all.

 

 

I don't think I am that good looking, slim and athletic less but I wouldn't say good looking, there are many better looking people than me based on their success at dating.

 

 

The bold part is profound and I do think about that often and its also why I don't bother with some ladies and I don't bother chasing too much because objectively I don't bring too much, at least not enough of what people like. I am quite upfront about that, I don't compare well in that at all and the choice I have is

 

 

1: let it eat me and bother me

2: accept it and work with what I have with the proviso I wont find success with it.

 

 

2 does sort of work because I am at least setting high challenges, yes I cant accomplish them, the model isn't going to ever choose me but at least I can try, the motivation to try being based on the impossibility of the idea.

[Grey40]

I think you have a few things working against you that make dating difficult.

 

1) you go into every date with a negative attitude and a defeatist mindset from the start. I understand this is because of your past experiences. You can’t do that though. Every person and date IS different and just because 100 ones before didn’t work doesn’t mean the next one will fail. The most successful people in life have failed tons of times before anything good happened for them.

 

2) your approach is off. You go into the date hoping they are interested in you. That’s the wrong way to look at it. You should be going in KNOWING they are interested. The agreed to go on a date and meet you in person which means They ARE interested enough at least on a superficial level of some sort or curious because you stand out in some way to them. If they had no interest at all, they wouldn’t bother.

 

3) overanayzing during the date. You’re thinking about what they are saying and trying to decipher their “code” and phrases and everything way too much during the date and you’re not being present in the moment and enjoying it. Actions always speak louder than words anyway. Doesn’t matter what they’re saying, it’s their behavior that matters. Don’t think about **** on the date—don’t think about it it’s going well, or if they like you, or “what should I say?” Etc. Just be present in the moment with them, relax and focus on the current moment and youlll be amazed how much more easily everything flows. This is why people like drinking on dates because it helps to put you in a more present mood where you aren’t thinking or overanalyzing things but are relaxed and free of inhibition.

[damni]

ZA you must be nice looking if you can get dates with attractive women.

 

You are doing the right thing, keep going out and dating. You are starting late but eventually you will find the right person.

[ZA Dater]

I think you have a few things working against you that make dating difficult.

 

1) you go into every date with a negative attitude and a defeatist mindset from the start. I understand this is because of your past experiences. You can’t do that though. Every person and date IS different and just because 100 ones before didn’t work doesn’t mean the next one will fail. The most successful people in life have failed tons of times before anything good happened for them.

 

2) your approach is off. You go into the date hoping they are interested in you. That’s the wrong way to look at it. You should be going in KNOWING they are interested. The agreed to go on a date and meet you in person which means They ARE interested enough at least on a superficial level of some sort or curious because you stand out in some way to them. If they had no interest at all, they wouldn’t bother.

 

3) overanayzing during the date. You’re thinking about what they are saying and trying to decipher their “code” and phrases and everything way too much during the date and you’re not being present in the moment and enjoying it. Actions always speak louder than words anyway. Doesn’t matter what they’re saying, it’s their behavior that matters. Don’t think about **** on the date—don’t think about it it’s going well, or if they like you, or “what should I say?” Etc. Just be present in the moment with them, relax and focus on the current moment and youlll be amazed how much more easily everything flows. This is why people like drinking on dates because it helps to put you in a more present mood where you aren’t thinking or overanalyzing things but are relaxed and free of inhibition.

 

 

 

I agree with most of this. However, the dates all follow the same sort of pattern really so the outcome is pretty much the same. I cant change the fundamental issues, either I be up front about them or I try hide them and thus put on my chameleon face. I agree get up and try again but logically I ask myself if this is really worth it because the negativity of dating starts to negatively effect other aspects of life.

 

 

Sure, in terms of 2 you are right and I have started to think that way BUT again it doesn't work in person, I have had some great text conversations with people to find it falls flat in person. Cynically I have some of my own ideas why some meet me but I need to stress that VERY few are actually people I'd want to date, there are mostly always some off putting issues.

 

 

I don't enjoy most of these dates. There I said it, because there is very little offered up in terms of a conversational challenge, at least this is true of local ladies, there is no way to connect with these people, its like trying to cook over a phone, it just never really works. Unfortunately I think about everything all of the time, there are lots of reasons I have to do this, mostly because I am always busy with a multitude of things at once.

 

 

Look, it has worked with some people before but again I just get the sense some were waiting for me to say some magic word or something. This is exactly the problem I had with this date, apparently I didn't do things on a date guys are supposed to do, which outs my lack of experience every time.

 

 

So now I sit with this 37yo trying to coach me but I have been here before, its just a repetition of what people have tried before. Its easy to say do this do that BUT if you cant play football you cant expect to play on a team and if you did people wouldn't be positive towards you because you don't know what you are doing. I need people are actually interested in me enough to look past what isn't thee to what is there BUT that doesn't work either because those who are prepared to do this are not those I want do date.

 

 

All I really want is this

: someone to talk to

: someone to take a mutual interest in

: someone to take to the odd dinner/lunch/event/weekend away

: someone who can challenge me to some extent.

: someone that makes me go wow because like it or not this is an extremely important part of life.

 

 

I am never going to be that person anyone introduces to their friends, I am never going to be that guy who mixes well with other guys, for what its worth my ability to make friends is as bad as my ability to date.

[Normm]

So now I sit with this 37yo trying to coach me

 

 

Dude the answer is right in front of you and you don't even see h̶e̶r̶ . I mean it.

[ZA Dater]

Dude the answer is right in front of you and you don't even see h̶e̶r̶ . I mean it.

 

 

 

Its not really the answer you think it is. She isn't interested in me in that sort of way. At least I have someone to chat to every so often.