Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

May 9, 2019

Funny how millions wives demand things of their husbands constantly all over the world and nobody wags a finger at them.

If you expect others here to cool down and play nice with you, you need to lose this chronic man vs. woman argument. It's not applicable to your situation and it's also a strawman argument.

I've seen plenty of threads on LS from girlfriends and wives bemoaning the lack of sex in their relationship/marriage. Exiting the relationship is nothing changes has frequently been suggested advice in those threads. In other words, precisely what's been going on in this thread.

May 9, 2019

Please scrap the whole hotel room / diamond ring setup. Even if you don't intend it thusly, it comes across as pressure, desperation, and just plain ol' trying too hard.

Keep it low key and see what your wife does with the counselor.

May 9, 2019

Yes, I accept the consensus here that the less I do right now, the better. And you folks are right that my wife has enough pressure in her life right now. If this rebuilding process is to succeed I need to be as mellow about it as possible. I admit that the pace she will set is probably slower than I would like but actually that's fine—her being satisfied with the process is probably more important right now.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the intense romantic kisses a lot and they do not have to lead to sex—in fact, it is probably for the best that it doesn't for the time being.

A low-key, enjoyable anniversary is the goal. No elaborate gifts, no grand gestures, no romantic overkill, just pleasantness and low-key affection.

I tried the extravagant romantic gestures on our last major date and although she was moved—even tearful—it really did not resonate for her the way I was hoping, so for now I will take it easy on that stuff.

It's a plan.

@Crazelnut Yes! If my wife fails to call the marriage counselor, that is 100% fine and she will face no reproach from me. If she mentions it, I may simply say, “That's okay with me. What prompted you to make that choice?” Or I may just nod. I'm not sure.

If it turns out my wife simply wants the counselor to help her ask me for a divorce, that sucks but that is also okay if that's my wife's process. Don't get me wrong—I hate that scenario. But I have to accept that as a possibility, likelihood unknown.

@giotto You nailed the feeling exactly. It's about projecting quiet strength and being okay with whatever happens next.

@elaine567 I promise I won't do any of that stuff but please don't call it “blackmail”—that's impugning my motives.

I've served the ball, now she has to hit it back over the net, I suppose.

Maximize the probability of success by doing as little as possible, right?

Edited May 9, 2019 by Rotaglia

May 9, 2019

Y
@Crazelnut Yes! If my wife fails to call the marriage counselor, that is 100% fine and she will face no reproach from me. If she mentions it, I may simply say, “That's okay with me. What prompted you to make that choice?” Or I may just nod. I'm not sure.

Also not the right approach. It is not 100% fine! If your wife fails to make the appointment, you need to do the opposite. Communicate to her that she has demonstrated she does NOT want to save your marriage. Then act accordingly. In other words, she said she wants to save the marriage, but her actions would tell a completely different story. I would take it as a clear sign that she doesn't give a rat's patooty about your marriage.

May 9, 2019

I think you should just ask her casually, Anything you'd like to do for the anniversary coming up? If you have an idea, I'll plan it. Or we can keep it lowkey, whatever.

Save the ring for later. But I have no issue where the stone came from. My ring has my mom's first wedding diamond in it.

Hold off any of these plans like asking her to face you in bed until you have completed marriage counseling. You don't know what you're doing. It's too much.

Just hold off anything new until marriage counseling. I DO think it's fine you outright told her that sex had to be restored for the marriage to work. But now you've told her, don't do another thing until after marriage counseling.

If she doesn't call to make an appointment, you have a problem, and that means "no." I sincerely hope she's willing to give this longstanding marriage at least that good airing out before a trained professional, where you can both get out things that have gone unsaid at least.

May 9, 2019

There will be no sex. Maybe I should just say so. However, there will be some intimacy. There just has to be. I insist on that.
Last time we talked, I affirmed that I was “deeply in love” with her even though I know she is not quite feeling the same way right now. It's fine, really. I don't expect there to be parity of ardor.
Intimacy. Comfort. Pleasure. Sex Can Wait.

Really? This is your plan? I think most people on this site have a better handle on your marriage than you do. Do you honestly expect affection at this stage? Do you really think announcing “I’m in love with you” gives you some leverage? And you’ve seriously downplayed her feelings with “she is not quite there”.

Seriously, you’re like a child who’s merely focused on what they want and think and feel, with little consideration of how your actions are impeding things. This elaborate anniversary idea that you’ve been thinking about for months now is really all about you, disguised under the veil of you doing something for her. I think you need to put the brakes on and do some genuine soul searching because I can honestly see why your wife has gone cold. I know you’re just going to defend yourself and your motives but I’m here to tell you that, from where I’m standing, you’re creating a lot of your own problems and can’t even see it.

May 9, 2019

@bathtub-row If you read my more recent posts, I think it will become clear that my current approach has shifted away from what you have described.

Yes, people on this site may sometimes have a better handle on my marriage than I do. That's why I'm here!!

They managed to talk me out of the ring/album/hotel idea, for example.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Rotaglia

May 10, 2019

Booking a hotel room sends a clear sexual message. The fact that you even considered this shows that you do not truly understand the nature of your marital problems. If I didn’t want to be sexual with my husband and he booked a hotel room for the two of us, I would take that as a sign that he is only thinking about his sexual needs.

Being insistent about sex and giving your wife gifts is not going to change your situation.

It’s time to stop desperately seeking sexual relief and emotional intimacy. Stop exuding emotional neediness. Focus on planning a life without your wife because it could come to that.

May 10, 2019

@BettyDraper That’s fine, no hotel room. Old habits die hard.

I’m sitting with my wife as we speak. We just had a lovely conversation. I’m not saying everything is hunky-dory, but I do find that we are talking and sharing on a better level lately. This doesn’t mean that divorce has been averted or anything, but at least we are engaging in frank and respectful conversation. She hasn’t said whether she’s called the marriage counselor yet but I am willing to bet that she is fairly apprehensive about it.

Talking about feelings and sex has never been something she was particularly good at. That doesn’t let her off the hook but it sure does explain a lot.

May 10, 2019

Who are you kidding... you stated many times you are NOT going to divorce her!

I will do what is ultimately best for me. Right now, I am optimistic that relationship repair is possible.

And IF you want to know if she made the appt with the counselor - why haven’t you asked her!!! It seems like you’re afraid of her! Why?

Honestly? I am curious how long it will take her to say something to me about it.

@BettyDraper It’s a strange dilemma. I don’t want to be seen as begging and pleading for sex, but I do expect sex to eventually become part of our relationship again if we are to remain a married couple. I can’t accept sexlessness forever and eighteen months is an awfully long time. BTW, there was an interesting story on NPR today about regaining a sex life in midlife through lubrication and communication.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Rotaglia

May 10, 2019

Talking about feelings and sex has never been something she was particularly good at. That doesn’t let her off the hook but it sure does explain a lot.

Well then, she will particularly enjoy having these talks with you ever other day... especially after she has just returned home from an exhausting business trip or after a busy and stressful work day.

May 10, 2019

@BaileyB Do not misunderstand. The chat tonight was about our days at work and the kids, etc.—not about sex. We only tangentially mentioned when discussing our son that not everyone is as comfortable discussing feelings as, say, I am ... and it was very elliptical. You have a tendency to find fault in me and you are not always correct.

May 10, 2019

. You have a tendency to find fault in me and you are not always correct.

Possibly. I tend to think that you believe you are being subtle and not pressuring your wife... and suspect that this is far from how it’s perceived sometimes. Consider, your backhanded comment about how “not everyone is comfortable discussions their feelings.” You wanted to make a point with that comment and you better believe that she heard it. I’m also not the only person here who thinks you have the subtlety of a bulldozer sometimes...

I’m sure there were parts of your discussion that she really enjoyed. Believe it or not, I’m really trying to help... as we all are trying to help.

May 10, 2019

Believe it or not, I’m really trying to help... as we all are trying to help.

Yes, I believe that because it’s undeniably the case. Every small breakthrough in my relationship has been encouraged by folks on LS. They deserve credit and so do you.

May 10, 2019

@BaileyB We only tangentially mentioned when discussing our son that not everyone is as comfortable discussing feelings as, say, I am .

You said this or she said this?

May 10, 2019

You said this or she said this?

I did but I let the comment rest without pursuing it.

May 10, 2019

I did but I let the comment rest without pursuing it.

I assumed so. You really need to be careful saying things like this. Whether you intend it to come across this way or not, comments like this in the environment you find yourself in are going to come across as jabs that your wife isn't willing to discuss feelings with you.

May 10, 2019

You really need to be careful saying things like this.

That's a good point. What I *meant* to convey is that it's understandable, not a character flaw—but it is possible it could have been misconstrued, though I honestly don't think it was. It was in the context of a very pleasant, loving conversation punctuated with a nice kiss good-night. I think it was fine.

We very seldom raise our voices to each other and we usually resist criticizing each other. Going forward, though, I want her to be willing to be vulnerable and accountable to me to a greater degree than in the past. It may be a tall ask, but I don't think it's unreasonable given what's happened over the last year and a half.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Rotaglia

May 10, 2019

Going forward, though, I want her to be willing to be vulnerable and accountable to me to a greater degree than in the past. It may be a tall ask, but I don't think it's unreasonable given what's happened over the last year and a half.

So not only does she have to want sex with you again, she also needs to change who she is in her mid-50s and become more vulnerable AND "accountable" to you? Again, you have this wish list and zero leverage, and I cannot help but think you're setting yourself for great disappointment and more wasted time by staying in this marriage.

May 10, 2019

I think you must like having reasons to be mad at her.

It's really not about that. I honestly sense that something has shifted in her. It might be starting to dawn on her that she has something to lose. I firmly believe that my show of strength is starting produce positive results in my marriage. It's a balancing act between taking action and exercising patience.

Bear with me.

So not only does she have to want sex with you again, she also needs to change who she is in her mid-50s and become more vulnerable AND "accountable" to you?

She must remain who she is essentially but I am asking for some different behavior from her.

May 10, 2019

You could be waiting forever to hear that she’s made that appt.

I think you must like having reasons to be mad at her.

And the fact that you claim to be good at communicating isn’t true.

You have chances to get honest with her yet you fear what she might say - so you stay silent. Then you complain about HER... complain about the way YOU are participating - that’s the only things you can change.

That’s terribly passive aggressive.

If you have something to ask her - then simply ask her!!!

Yeah, if this really mattered to her, she would've found a lead or two on a marriage counselor. That she's said nothing to the OP about this indicates a good chance she's not even explored it yet.

I re-read the first post in this thread, which is now two months old. There's mention of the wife saying she wanted to work on the marriage, so I wonder if this latest conversation is similar to that instance. In other words, something she told him just to get him off her back for a while.

May 10, 2019

She must remain who she is essentially but I am asking for some different behavior from her.

But by your own description, she's always been more emotionally reserved/closely guarded. That is who she is. Some people are just not vulnerable, and expecting her to change this at her age is akin to asking her to mentally bend a spoon.

I'm not sure what you mean by her needing to be "accountable" to you.

May 10, 2019

I'm not sure what you mean by her needing to be "accountable" to you.

It means that when she does something wrong in the relationship, instead of letting it slide as I have done in the past, I will be more likely to call her out on it—and she is obligated to apologize and make amends. She cannot be cruel to me going forward and get away with impunity. Basic relationship dynamics.

May 10, 2019

It's likely I missed it, if it was explained, but aside from the sex thing, what are some cruel things she's done?

May 10, 2019

what are some cruel things she's done?

She failed to address her total shutdown of our sex life for a year before I finally confronted her. She failed to practice kindness concerning my ongoing sexual needs. She shamed me for that. She nursed an ambivalence about our relationship but failed to disclose it or give me a chance to address it. When prodded to explain, she threatened me with separation.

Basically, I have not been treated as a equal partner in this relationship on several fronts. I have been made to think that these were ME problems that were exclusively mine instead of WE problems that we as a couple would tackle together. Meanwhile, she took for granted everything I continued to do (in non-sexual areas of the relationship).

But looking back on it, this was probably a necessary growth experience for each of us as individuals and as a couple and we will be stronger for it. I had a role to play in all of this—I let her walk all over me and I failed to hold her accountable as I should have. So that's on me.

However, I think we have a reasonable shot at resolving these issues. Recovering sexual desire in middle age through menopause is very challenging, but if she could show the effort (apart from results) it would mean a lot to me.

So see a therapist about how to live without sex.

Death first! I did see my therapist today during my lunch break. She's really helpful. Edited May 10, 2019 by Rotaglia

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