Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

May 5, 2019

If she can practice compassion in the sexual arena, that might work for me if she is really committed to the concept.

What does this mean exactly?

Mr. Lucky

May 5, 2019

@bathtub-row I don't really know much about what men in general want, but I do know what I want in a relationship: I want to be cherished, respected, loved, and appreciated. I want to have fun with my spouse. And yeah, horror of horrors, I would like have sex with her. I would like to give her exquisite sexual pleasure and to experience it myself, regularly.

Unfortunately, my wife's interest in sex has shut down. We don't know if it's temporary or permanent. She says it's not about me at all and I have to take her at her word.

Now the question is whether we can treat my ongoing sexual needs as a “we” problem instead of a “me” problem—if we’re both committed to the relationship, is there a way to weather the storm and work on recovery my wife's libido. It does not help that my wife isn't exactly Dr. Ruth Westheimer—she can hardly bear to use words like “vagina” or “vulva” or “clitoris” and that makes specific and detailed conversation about how we might maintain connection rather difficult.

For example, if she’s experiencing vaginal dryness and doesn't want to have intercourse, how would she feel about receiving oral sex? It’s okay for her to still say “no thanks,” but if she could smile like she appreciates the offer it would do a lot for me emotionally.

I know she doesn't want sex right now and maybe never will again. But she's in a relationship with a man who does. With those parameters, different kind behaviors are necessary.

Unfortunately, my gut instinct tells me we are in the preliminary stages of a split and there's not a whole lot I can do to stop it from happening.

May 5, 2019

I dunno, man...

I think your best bet at this point is to continue to do whatever you have to do to get by(j/o or whatever), then who knows? It may wind up that you lose your drive or ability to perform sooner than you think, and you both can finish off your lives as non sexual life partners like a lot of others do...

It just doesn't seem like she is going to wake up one day and get her groove back(id say the chances of that are probably less than 1%) and you don't seem to think its important enough to give up the other aspects of the marriage in order to get that from another woman.....

TFY

May 5, 2019

If she wanted oral sex, she'd have said "Do this instead" by now or shoved your head in that direction. You're still thinking of advanced foreplay as "not sex." And you better be careful what you ask for because your best-case scenario following your line of logic is ending up obligated to go down on her regularly without her doing anything at all back. Won't that be fun?

May 5, 2019

your best-case scenario following your line of logic is ending up obligated to go down on her regularly without her doing anything at all back. Won't that be fun?

Not an obligation, but an option.

Here's why I think it would work temporarily: It would give us both some sexual pleasure and restore some of the sexual bond that has been missing. I'm game. It beats what we have going at the moment by a mile. I of course would rather she reciprocate. It seems only fair.

@S2B Regarding neediness, there is a difference between being needy (which is dependent, whiny, and approval-seeking) and understanding one's needs as a man an expecting them to be met.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Rotaglia

May 5, 2019

You would be doing it with the hope that she would reciprocate. Ah, the pressure of expectation - try it and see how that works for you.

Seriously, if she won’t have sex with you, she’s not going to give your oral sex. You are in fantasyland now...

May 5, 2019

My experience has been that a lot of women are more willing to have sex than give oral.

May 5, 2019

It may wind up that you lose your drive or ability to perform sooner than you think, and you both can finish off your lives as non sexual life partners like a lot of others do...

This is a rather depressing thought at 49...

May 5, 2019

My experience has been that a lot of women are more willing to have sex than give oral.

I would agree. Accepting oral is also a big deal for some women too.

Oral can all be incorporated into "sex" and with a hefty dollop of desire, the unwilling can be persuaded, but "cold" oral without passion or desire on her part is a big ask.

Nothing romantic, or sexy or even fun about giving a HJ or a BJ to someone she would not have sex with... that is a job for a h**ker and most older married women do not see themselves as h**kers.

May 5, 2019

Nothing romantic, or sexy or even fun about giving a HJ or a BJ to someone she would not have sex with... that is a job for a h**ker and most older married women do not see themselves as h**kers.

That depends. We can generalize about women as a group or we can examine what this particular woman is willing to do, informed by our knowledge about women in general.

Maybe my wife has never considered what difference a biweekly handjob would make in our relationship. Maybe she could think about it and say, “You know what? Yeah, I can handle that” (pun intended). Who knows? Let's ask her. She might say, “Yeah, sorry, no can do” but she's confronting a sex-starved marriage and a very frustrated husband. How will she respond to that situation? Does she want me to continue to feel sexually cut off from her? Is that a good choice for her marriage? Maybe it is but answer the damn question already. And folks, do not repeat the canard that she has already given her answer and I should stop waiting for one. The vague answers she has given so far are not satisfactory nor are they sufficient. We need to roll up our sleeves here (again, pull intended) and get to work around here.

Mature adults should be able to talk about sex frankly and explicitly so I am no longer driven crazy by deprivation and she is no longer driven crazy by having a husband who is horny and is getting no relief. That's not a good situation for either one of us.

May 5, 2019

We need to roll up our sleeves here (again, pull intended) and get to work around here.

.

I dunno...I can't speak for everyone, but the thought that I would have to work on, coerce, counsel, arm twist, beg, obsess over, etc. the act of sex between two people just completely throws cold water over it...I mean, even if she agrees and complies, wouldn't you always be left feeling like she is only doing so to get you off her back?

Understand, I do see your point...And its discussed around here that people should engage in "maintenance sex or duty sex" to keep their relationships on the up and up and going smooth....Well....About all I can say is I don't see any point in that...If it works, great, but I could never feel good about that on any level at all..If it's not considered a priority or worth it on any level than whats the point....Its not like sharing chores or sitting down to discuss finances...Its way different. IMO

TFY

May 5, 2019

Maybe my wife has never considered what difference a biweekly handjob would make in our relationship. Maybe she could think about it and say, “You know what? Yeah, I can handle that” (pun intended). Who knows? Let's ask her..

Ok so just ask her...

May 5, 2019

That depends. We can generalize about women as a group or we can examine what this particular woman is willing to do, informed by our knowledge about women in general.

Ok, let’s talk about this particular woman - the one who has withdrawn sex for more than 18 months, can hardly say the words vagina or clitoris... what makes you think that THIS woman is going to be interested in giving you a hand job or a blow job?

How many blow jobs did you get before she withdrew sex? Was it a frequent occurrence?

Again, its probably fairly accurate to say that women in general tend to be more open to these kinds of things when they are younger and their interest tends to wane with age and maturity. Although your wife may go against this trend, I wouldn’t count on it... particularly because she has given you absolutely no indication that she has any interest whatsoever.

How will she respond to that situation? Does she want me to continue to feel sexually cut off from her? Is that a good choice for her marriage? Maybe it is but answer the damn question already. And folks, do not repeat the canard that she has already given her answer and I should stop waiting for one. The vague answers she has given so far are not satisfactory nor are they sufficient.

Again, rather than spend another 100 pages discussing hypotheticals about what you think she “should” feel or the things you think “should” be happening in your marriage... talk to the woman.

Honestly, you had a conversation with her and she gave you the answer you want to hear - she agreed to go to marriage counselling with you. And here you are, 48 hours later getting all worked up again and suggesting that her answers are unsatisfactory - all while plotting/complaining about the fact that she hasn’t offered to give you a handjob/oral sex. You seem to epitomize the old saying “if you give the guy and inch, he will take a mile.” I would respectfully suggest that you give it some time and go to counselling.

Edited May 5, 2019 by BaileyB

May 5, 2019

all while plotting/complaining about the fact that she hasn’t offered to give you a handjob/oral sex. You seem to epitomize the old saying “if you give the guy and inch, he will take a mile.” I would respectfully suggest that you give it some time and go to counselling.

It's early days. Give the guy a break. He will learn. It took me months... I finally got it...

May 5, 2019

I would agree. Accepting oral is also a big deal for some women too.
Oral can all be incorporated into "sex" and with a hefty dollop of desire, the unwilling can be persuaded, but "cold" oral without passion or desire on her part is a big ask.
Nothing romantic, or sexy or even fun about giving a HJ or a BJ to someone she would not have sex with... that is a job for a h**ker and most older married women do not see themselves as h**kers.

Absolutely. If they are having sex aversion to a person, the last thing they want to do is put that person's penis in their mouth. Sex is sex. There's no middle ground if the person is turned off. It's true: It's a hooker's job.

May 5, 2019

And its discussed around here that people should engage in "maintenance sex or duty sex" to keep their relationships on the up and up and going smooth....Well....About all I can say is I don't see any point in that...If it works, great, but I could never feel good about that on any level at all..

It's a compromise. It worked for us for a few years, but you need to put some effort into it. If you don't, it's pointless and highly unsatisfactory.

May 5, 2019

And you can give yourself a handjob, so I don't see the point taking one given begrudgingly when you can do that yourself. Probably a lot better one than she would give, too.

May 5, 2019

Absolutely. If they are having sex aversion to a person, the last thing they want to do is put that person's penis in their mouth. Sex is sex. There's no middle ground if the person is turned off. It's true: It's a hooker's job.

Human sexuality actually works differently. It's not bipolar (yes or no, on or off); it’s a continuum. Consent IS yes or no, however—and it has to be that way.

May 5, 2019

I dunno...I can't speak for everyone, but the thought that I would have to work on, coerce, counsel, arm twist, beg, obsess over, etc. the act of sex between two people just completely throws cold water over it...I mean, even if she agrees and complies, wouldn't you always be left feeling like she is only doing so to get you off her back?

Understand, I do see your point...And its discussed around here that people should engage in "maintenance sex or duty sex" to keep their relationships on the up and up and going smooth....Well....About all I can say is I don't see any point in that...If it works, great, but I could never feel good about that on any level at all..If it's not considered a priority or worth it on any level than whats the point....Its not like sharing chores or sitting down to discuss finances...Its way different. IMO

TFY

Agreed. I've had a handful of such encounters where it became evident in the act that it was all being done to appease me and it was a disgusting feeling. I'd just as soon be relegated to my hand until my final days than have another encounter with someone who is 100-percent there for my sake only.

May 5, 2019

Human sexuality actually works differently. It's not bipolar (yes or no, on or off); it’s a continuum. Consent IS yes or no, however—and it has to be that way.

So how many times has your wife gone down on you in the last 18 months then?

May 5, 2019

Honestly, you had a conversation with her and she gave you the answer you want to hear - she agreed to go to marriage counselling with you. And here you are, 48 hours later getting all worked up again and suggesting that her answers are unsatisfactory - all while plotting/complaining about the fact that she hasn’t offered to give you a handjob/oral sex. You seem to epitomize the old saying “if you give the guy and inch, he will take a mile.” I would respectfully suggest that you give it some time and go to counselling.

I haven't dealt with the OP's exact problems, but I'm having PTSD to my own past relationship with a particular ex because of the above. I'm also one of those "Let's sit down and talk things out" sorts of people, which is fine. But there's a threshold where it becomes compulsive and every conversation feels like it's accomplished something, only to be bombarded with more/recurring concerns within hours or days.

It's exhausting, especially for the person on the other end.

May 5, 2019

It's exhausting, especially for the person on the other end.

Or in this thread the posters on the other end. The OP has worn me out...

Mr. Lucky

May 5, 2019

I haven't dealt with the OP's exact problems, but I'm having PTSD to my own past relationship with a particular ex because of the above. I'm also one of those "Let's sit down and talk things out" sorts of people, which is fine. But there's a threshold where it becomes compulsive and every conversation feels like it's accomplished something, only to be bombarded with more/recurring concerns within hours or days.

It's exhausting, especially for the person on the other end.

Understood. I have made a conscious effort to cool it in that regard.

For example, yesterday my wife got to sleep in and then go to the mall and read all afternoon. No relationship discussion, just pleasant pecks on the lips, smiles and hugs. Absolutely ZERO pressure for sex. I made dinner and then we watched A Star Is Born (the recent one with Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper). We went to bed at separate times and I did not “spoon” even though her beautiful backside was pointed in my direction. Today was much of the same. On Friday, she agreed, as I recounted earlier, to see a marriage counselor. Today we had a a nice lunch out with our daughter.

Perhaps it is I who needs to adapt, not her. Maybe I need to grieve the death of sex in this relationship and move on within the relationship. I'm not even 50 but what the hell. I'm not willing to divorce even though I miss and crave sex. I do love my wife and I like being married to her. What should I expect any different? She is 56 and menopausal after all, plus she has a hugely demanding career and family life and she's stressed out a lot of the time. I could just be grateful for what we have, right?

I do not love my wife any less because she is not able or willing to have sex with me right now ... and for whatever negative emotions I do have I am trying to create different neural pathways that are not so negative.

So how many times has your wife gone down on you in the last 18 months then?

She stopped doing that perhaps four years ago, I don't recall exactly. But it was a feature of our sex life for seventeen or eighteen years and I used to experience that when I dated other people and I really liked it and I miss it. One day she up and said, “It's not one of my favorite things,” and that was that. The door closed forever. I kept my mouth shut.

It was one of those thrilling experiences that made me feel cherished, desired, and special. Now it's gone and it's never coming back. I'm trying not to be self-pitying or resentful, but I have to confess that it really hurts me in my soul. It is as though my youth and virility have faded away and with it any possibility of a remotely sexual experience. So how do we as a couple address that feeling? My primal male psyche is damaged, but there has to be a way to move forward, hand-in-hand, arm-in-arm, with those feelings acknowledged. I guess blowjobs are the exclusive province of the young on those married to the young. I'm all f***ing washed up, expended, and discarded as a sexual being.

I see my therapist on Thursday.

Agreed. I've had a handful of such encounters where it became evident in the act that it was all being done to appease me and it was a disgusting feeling. I'd just as soon be relegated to my hand until my final days than have another encounter with someone who is 100-percent there for my sake only.

What percentage buy-in would be acceptable to you? 30% for her, 70% for you? How about 40/60? 45/65? How do you quantify that s**t? Honestly, that sounds pretty preposterous. Edited May 5, 2019 by Rotaglia

May 5, 2019

She stopped doing that perhaps four years ago, I don't recall exactly. But it was a feature of our sex life for seventeen or eighteen years and I used to experience that when I dated other people and I really liked it and I miss it. One day she up and said, “It's not one of my favorite things,” and that was that. The door closed forever. I kept my mouth shut.

Apparently she has, as well.

I'm not sure why on earth you'd think oral sex is even in the realm of possibility when she cut that off long before she cut off sex.

On top of that, you have her on record as saying she doesn't enjoy it. And I'd totally believe her. Like I said, it's been my experience that the average woman is much more likely to prefer having sex over giving oral sex. We position intercourse to be the top shelf thing in the sexual universe, but the truth is that I've found through experience and talking that most women aren't particularly fond of the oral sex, and subsequently, are far less likely to do that than they are have sex with you.

It was one of those thrilling experiences that made me feel cherished, desired, and special. Now it's gone and it's never coming back. I'm trying not to be self-pitying or resentful, but I have to confess that it really hurts me in my soul.

Dude, come on. Saying such things about someone cutting off oral sex is one of those examples that suggests you're a lot less selfless than you think you are.

My primal male psyche is damaged, but there has to be a way to move forward, hand-in-hand, arm-in-arm, with those feelings acknowledged. I guess blowjobs are the exclusive province of the young on those married to the young. I'm all f***ing washed up, expended, and discarded as a sexual being.

Cut the pity party nonsense. I'm in my mid-30s and can tell you that my above comments about women not really enjoying giving oral sex were based on young women, so this isn't just some young vs. old thing. The average woman just isn't a huge fan of having a schlong jabbed toward her throat.

What percentage buy-in would be acceptable to you? 30% for her, 70% for you? How about 40/60? 45/65? How do you quantify that s**t? Honestly, that sounds pretty preposterous.

And you sound like a patronizing such and such. You make it sound like I was in there with my slide rule figuring out the precise percentages of the division of pleasure.

Tell you what. I have a hunch that if your wife ever sleeps with you again, you're going to know exactly how to "quantify that s**t," because if you've got any consideration for anything past getting off, you're going to practically feel like you've just committed some sort of sexual assault. THAT is how you "quantify that s**t."

May 5, 2019

@Blanco Look, all I'm really looking for here is a practical, kind, loving solution. Let's get real—it's abundantly clear that my wife is not into sex right now, period, so that's off the table. Any kind of sex (oral, manual, penetrative, etc.). That's fine. I just would like some clarity on that. Once we are clear there is no leeway, we can decision-make from there. I've already released the pressure for sex as much as I realistically can.

The thornier question is whether it is likely or possible for her to regain some of her libido in general and then later, maybe, some desire to have sex with her husband (that would be me). If she's not open to that possibility at all, then fine—say so and we can decision-make from there.

Perhaps there is a way of looking at all of this that would allow the marriage to continue and the romantic relationship to be rebuilt. Or maybe not. But let's talk about it. Let's explore. Isn't that the essence of what marriage counseling is for?

People tell you to be honest and then they get mad when you actually *are* honest. That hardly encourages honesty.

It's too bad she isn't even interested in receiving oral sex from me, but I can certainly understand. I'd be happy to do that. If you're not into intercourse, chances are you aren't much for oral either.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Rotaglia

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