5 dates and not sure how to proceed

[nychic009]

This is a huge red flag that he could already have a girlfriend/special someone. When a man has a "side piece," the primary piece always gets the holidays (Christmas, New Year's, Valentine's Day). He could be seeing you when she's out of town or unavailable.

 

Sorry, OP, but in my experience, if a guy is really into you and wants to build something with you, you will be on his mind on special days/travel days.

 

Even more the reason why I don’t do casual sex. I don’t think he has a girlfriend, I just think he’s just VERY busy and not wanting to settle and playing the field. With all these dating apps everyone is swiping with endless options. I spent some time at his apartment and there are no female things. When we met he even told me he’s not sleeping with anyone else. He has been very thoughtful and we talk daily except for major holidays. He travels a lot for work and does make time to talk to me during his trips. And when I travel he’s always in touch.

 

 

 

But regardless, whatever the reasoning is, time to just move on for me. If he reaches out I’ll determine what to do. Maybe I’ll even have a new bf by then, who knows. I’m not attached or emotionally invested so it’s not that disappointing more so I was just confused and trying to figure out how to position myself to best move forward.

Edited February 15, 2019 by nychic009

[JuneL]

Not sure you can protect heart more with oral sex. Does it not release oxytocin in your body as much as intercourse?

[nychic009]

Not sure you can protect heart more with oral sex. Does it not release oxytocin in your body as much as intercourse?

 

 

Nope.

 

Also, he told me last year he spent every holiday alone. And I don't think just because he doesn't message during holidays it means he's with someone else. I have guy friends who ended up marrying with families and they cheat on their wives - they are always messaging their multiple girlfriends on holidays. So I don't think the not messaging or messaging on holidays is really indicative of anything except that it doesn't meet MY needs and I need to cut my losses now that there's a pattern.

[Marc878]

You seem to have a lot to offer. Don't waste it.

 

If he was interested you'd know it.

[MaleIntuition]

Seems like you believe you are "old fashioned" because you "held out" and didn't have penetrative sex. But it sounds like you gave each other oral sex which some consider to be even more intimate than what you consider to be "sex." To a lot of us, sex is sex at that point. If you went as far as oral sex, you two had sex. It also is risky from an STD standpoint (for herpes, not a dangerous STD but no fun to have for a lifetime, I'm sure).

 

I'd be interested to know why oral sex doesn't equal sex to you, but penetrative sex does?

 

You having a narrow/rigid definition in your mind of what constitutes sex doesn't change that you did have sex with him. It is possible that he experienced that as frustrating, unsophisticated, and not very mature of you -- to go as far as you did and refuse to do more, not because you weren't into him, but because you wanted him to commit to more after just a few dates before you would "go all the way" and because you care more about coming off as "old fashioned" than actually communicating what you want and letting things sort themselves out based on his response.

 

I don't think he is all that interested, given the slow trajectory of your dates and minimal communication. You seem very stuck and to have rigidity around sex and "what is proper" by your own definitions, and may be getting in your own way with that. It just doesn't sound like you holding out for intercourse caused things to build in the way that you were hoping for, which is disappointing I'm sure.

 

Exactly this. It’s a bit mind boggling that you don’t realise that all your arguments about sex applies to all forms of sex.

 

Now; I don’t think this has anything to do with respect or whatever - I simply don’t think he is looking for anything serious. But if you want to enforce a boundary don’t define it so arbitrary.

[greymatter]

I’m not interested in coming across old fashioned. I just am scared of diseases and I don’t want to invest emotionally while he’s potentially sleeping with others.

I wasn’t using sex as a means to get him to commit. It’s my own standard for protecting my health and my heart. I get that many guys want sex before exclusivity / casual sex I guess those are the guys that I can’t date bc we have different values. If that makes it harder for me to find a guy, I’m willing to face those consequences.

 

You ignored my question about sex and a lot of what I said. My post didn't focus at all about guys wanting casual before exclusivity BTW.

 

Your standard for protecting your health isn't going to cut it if you didn't use protective measures during oral sex, which you clearly didn't or you would have mentioned it. Your arguments for what you believe don't hold up, but that's fine. I wish you luck.

 

You did have casual sex with him because the two of you are not in a relationship.

[nychic009]

You ignored my question about sex and a lot of what I said. My post didn't focus at all about guys wanting casual before exclusivity BTW.

 

Your standard for protecting your health isn't going to cut it if you didn't use protective measures during oral sex, which you clearly didn't or you would have mentioned it. Your arguments for what you believe don't hold up, but that's fine. I wish you luck.

 

You did have casual sex with him because the two of you are not in a relationship.

 

Ok. I have a different meaning of casual sex. I didn’t realize oral sex was part of casual sex.

Edited February 15, 2019 by nychic009

[ExpatInItaly]

It is fine to stick to your beliefs, OP.

 

It just seems that they don't line up with this particular man's, which doesn't make either of you wrong. It does, however, make you incompatible.

 

It's been several days and you haven't heard anything. A man who is interested is not going risk letting someone else get you. He's not into it anymore.

[nychic009]

It is fine to stick to your beliefs, OP.

 

It just seems that they don't line up with this particular man's, which doesn't make either of you wrong. It does, however, make you incompatible.

 

It's been several days and you haven't heard anything. A man who is interested is not going risk letting someone else get you. He's not into it anymore.

 

 

Onto the next! I'm not going to start having casual sex (my definition of it) now bc of him. He could of lost interest for whatever reason not even due to me or our "incompatibility re having sex earlier" (which will be 99% men under certain conditions, if they have a girl over and she's really hot and wants it etc) so it's pointless to analyze. If he does reach out, I can decide what to do from there.

 

I gave him benefit of the doubt the 1st time he went off radar for a week around xmas, and now that this happened AGAIN, there's definitely a pattern there's something wrong. Either both holiday vanishes are not related and he's just lost interest around Valentines, or he has commitment issues/don't want to send the wrong message and wants to avoid holidays altogether at this stage in our relationship. Not my problem to figure out which one.

 

 

I'm assuming the first time he vanished and popped back up after a week he was bored, needed entertainment, who knows. If he ever reappears, I'm not going to let him back in so easily.

Edited February 15, 2019 by nychic009

[Andy_K]

I'm assuming the first time he vanished and popped back up after a week he was bored, needed entertainment, who knows. If he ever reappears, I'm not going to let him back in so easily.

 

"Not going to let him back in at all", is what you should be thinking.

 

I can't help but feel you're trying to address things in the wrong way here. You have established your own boundaries and rules, and followed them, but without any self respect. Self respect is what would stop you entertaining the idea of giving him another chance if he reappeared, and self respect is what would stop you having sex with someone who hasn't established they want the same things as you. The rules you have should come from your values. You're doing it backwards. It's like you believe by imposing certain rules, you'll generate self respect.

 

There is no meaningful difference between oral sex and intercourse, but you've convinced yourself one is perfectly fine outside a relationship and the other is out of the question. When a guy ignores you over the major holidays it sends a clear and bright signal of how he views you, yet you still entertain the idea of giving him another chance if he says and does the right things, because he technically hasn't broken any 'rules'.

 

You need to take a step back and do some real self-evaluation here.

[nychic009]

"Not going to let him back in at all", is what you should be thinking.

 

I can't help but feel you're trying to address things in the wrong way here. You have established your own boundaries and rules, and followed them, but without any self respect. Self respect is what would stop you entertaining the idea of giving him another chance if he reappeared, and self respect is what would stop you having sex with someone who hasn't established they want the same things as you. The rules you have should come from your values. You're doing it backwards. It's like you believe by imposing certain rules, you'll generate self respect.

 

There is no meaningful difference between oral sex and intercourse, but you've convinced yourself one is perfectly fine outside a relationship and the other is out of the question. When a guy ignores you over the major holidays it sends a clear and bright signal of how he views you, yet you still entertain the idea of giving him another chance if he says and does the right things, because he technically hasn't broken any 'rules'.

 

You need to take a step back and do some real self-evaluation here.

 

First of all, self respect to me is not letting this behavior continue. Not the idea of just thinking / “entertaining some idea”. We think about a lot of things, doesn’t mean we are a certain way unless we act on it or allow it to happen.

 

I don’t see the world so black and white either, and with that kind of intensity.

If he does this, then THIS IS THE END ALL BE ALL. I’m NEVER going to do this and that. Why bother setting a rigid outlook bc people and feelings change all the time. I could be dating a new guy when he does reach out and see the situation totally differently. Or maybe I just don’t care enough here to be so upset over something or someone that really isn’t significant to me right now. 5 dates in is very short. I hardly know the guy.

 

Plus, we are not bf and gf, I didn’t sleep with him (my definition). Yes he shouldn’t disappear over the holidays but he doesn’t owe me anything esp so early on. I am not even mad about it. And I don’t owe him anything either. If I want to vanish on a guy I went on a few dates with I can. If I come back I don't expect him to have this outlook like, "I WILL NEVER TALK TO HER AGAIN" bc I don't owe him nada. This kind of thinking/attitude would actually scare me off. If he told me calmly, it's not behavior I tolerate and if you do it again, don't expect me to be around, I can respect that.

 

The only decision I am making now is moving on and not waiting around bc this is behavior I won’t tolerate. And clearly I’m entitled to my own rules regarding what is casual sex and not.

Edited February 15, 2019 by nychic009

[JuneL]

OP: Bill would have saved lots of trouble if most people think like you

 

The guy probably thought you’re one of those who said she’s not going to have casual sex only to give in easily. This can be worse than just having casual sex and saying nothing.

[nychic009]

OP: Bill would have saved lots of trouble if most people think like you

 

The guy probably thought you’re one of those who said she’s not going to have casual sex only to give in easily. This can be worse than just having casual sex and saying nothing.

 

 

Who is Bill?

[greymatter]

Who is Bill?

 

Hint: A recent president.

[greymatter]

OP, just for clarity’s sake, I did not assert that oral sex = casual sex. You incorrectly came to that conclusion from my post.

 

All of the fooling around you did with him in his bedroom was indeed casual sex. I could explain it to you further, but suspect it’s is not going to help you so will leave it at that.

[nychic009]

OP, just for clarity’s sake, I did not assert that oral sex = casual sex. You incorrectly came to that conclusion from my post.

 

All of the fooling around you did with him in his bedroom was indeed casual sex. I could explain it to you further, but suspect it’s is not going to help you so will leave it at that.

 

Ok. I’m just asserting that oral sex is something I’m personally ok with before exclusivity. Not trying to have an argument with strangers on my personal boundaries here. People have different definitions of sex and I know I’m not the only one who defines casual sex as intercourse. If others have a different definition thats fine.

[olivetree]

Ok. I’m just asserting that oral sex is something I’m personally ok with before exclusivity. Not trying to have an argument with strangers on my personal boundaries here. People have different definitions of sex and I know I’m not the only one who defines casual sex as intercourse. If others have a different definition thats fine.

 

I think you're glossing over the fact that since the majority of people do not see it the way you do, most guys are also going to be a bit confused by your words not really matching your actions (in their eyes).

 

I get the consensous from majority users here “no sex before exclusivity” means I’ll never get a bf bc it’s so rare for a guy to wait for sex past 3/4 dates. This is just not true.

 

I think this is silly as well and you shouldn't worry about what the guy wants.

Never had a problem with a guy waiting for me AND I don't fool around at all beforehand either, besides making out.

 

I slept over at his bc he insisted (he never came over to mine except outside of my apartment to kiss me). I’m sure I could have left but I had a feeling he would be mad.

 

This stuck out to me.

I hope if you're in that situation again you listen to what you want.

If a guy gets mad that you don't spend the night when you're not in a relationship... bye bye.

 

Anyway, I guess dating in NYC really is different because I would move on from a guy that is blowing hot and cold so early on, regardless of whether he "owes" you anything.

It would make me lose interest.

I'd want a connection where we mutually felt blown away from the start and were acting in a way consistent with that.

[nychic009]

I think you're glossing over the fact that since the majority of people do not see it the way you do, most guys are also going to be a bit confused by your words not really matching your actions (in their eyes).

 

 

 

I think this is silly as well and you shouldn't worry about what the guy wants.

Never had a problem with a guy waiting for me AND I don't fool around at all beforehand either, besides making out.

 

 

 

This stuck out to me.

I hope if you're in that situation again you listen to what you want.

If a guy gets mad that you don't spend the night when you're not in a relationship... bye bye.

 

Anyway, I guess dating in NYC really is different because I would move on from a guy that is blowing hot and cold so early on, regardless of whether he "owes" you anything.

It would make me lose interest.

I'd want a connection where we mutually felt blown away from the start and were acting in a way consistent with that.

 

I have lost interest. I was never upset/mad/cared about it that much to begin with. Just wanted outside opinion on the situation. I don’t over invest so it keeps my sanity in check. I just go with the flow I suppose.

 

Among most of my friends oral sex is not defined as casual sex. It’s a matter of opinion. And now that I know other ppl don’t think this way perhaps going forward I’ll have to clarify and say no intercourse before exclusivity.

 

The guy just spent $600 on a date. I didn’t want to just show up and leave. I suggested drinks but he wanted to go back to his place. I mostly felt bad ditching him bc that would hurt his feelings and I cared enough to not do that.

 

NYC dating is horrible. Everyone is dating 5 people at the same time. No one wants to get married. Everyone is always looking for the next best thing. And for successful professionals it would be very weird to not travel or take a vacation of some sort every month esp for holidays. People are very busy and relationships are not a priority.

Edited February 15, 2019 by nychic009

[Juha]

So you gave him some play because he spent a bunch of money on you for the date. I am confused as you are trying to come off with high morals but you make statements that contradict that...

 

Also a suggestion, move! NYC is not a place for you to be if you are looking for a good man to marry.

I am sure you can find a job elsewhere that is in an area that has men that would be more to what you are looking for. Money is not everything...

 

NYC is a cesspool for dating. You state it and know it. You are not going to find what you are looking for in NYC by what you say and are looking for.

[nychic009]

So you gave him some play because he spent a bunch of money on you for the date. I am confused as you are trying to come off with high morals but you make statements that contradict that...

 

Also a suggestion, move! NYC is not a place for you to be if you are looking for a good man to marry.

I am sure you can find a job elsewhere that is in an area that has men that would be more to what you are looking for. Money is not everything...

 

NYC is a cesspool for dating. You state it and know it. You are not going to find what you are looking for in NYC by what you say and are looking for.

 

No, we have hooked up before the ballet. I am attracted to him. I didn’t want to leave right after the show because he will feel used.

[Johnjohnson2017]

I think he likes you but not enough to become serious with you yet.

 

He still wants to play the field.

 

Even if he was extremely busy, that doesn't excuse him for not contacting you. All it takes is a text message "Happy Holidays ... thinking about you"

 

He is unsure about whether he likes you enough. Maybe something about you is making him lukewarm? Maybe there is someone else he is more interested in? Maybe his mind is occupied with someone else when you are away from him?

 

I woulden't give up on him completely. You did state you feel chemistry with him both physically and mentally. Is it easy for you to find that in a man?

 

Keep dating around. Keep your options open. But if he is the one you are the most attracted to both physically and mentally by far compared to all the other guys, I woulden't be so quick to dismiss him.

 

Unless he is married or has a serious girlfriend he is cheating on.

[nychic009]

So you gave him some play because he spent a bunch of money on you for the date. I am confused as you are trying to come off with high morals but you make statements that contradict that...

 

Also a suggestion, move! NYC is not a place for you to be if you are looking for a good man to marry.

I am sure you can find a job elsewhere that is in an area that has men that would be more to what you are looking for. Money is not everything...

 

NYC is a cesspool for dating. You state it and know it. You are not going to find what you are looking for in NYC by what you say and are looking for.

 

I also don’t think my morals are better or higher than anyone else’s. Not sure where you got that. These are just my personal boundaries and what I feel comfortable with. I don’t judge anyone for having one night stands if that makes them happy go for it.

 

It’s not as easy as you say to move out of NYC. I have a business/company here. Tried relocating to SF and La - same problems. Any big city I think will be similar. I think it’s just a numbers game at this point. Meet as many people as possible hoping one will work out.

[nychic009]

I think he likes you but not enough to become serious with you yet.

 

He still wants to play the field.

 

Even if he was extremely busy, that doesn't excuse him for not contacting you. All it takes is a text message "Happy Holidays ... thinking about you"

 

He is unsure about whether he likes you enough. Maybe something about you is making him lukewarm? Maybe there is someone else he is more interested in? Maybe his mind is occupied with someone else when you are away from him?

 

I woulden't give up on him completely. You did state you feel chemistry with him both physically and mentally. Is it easy for you to find that in a man?

 

Keep dating around. Keep your options open. But if he is the one you are the most attracted to both physically and mentally by far compared to all the other guys, I woulden't be so quick to dismiss him.

 

Unless he is married or has a serious girlfriend he is cheating on.

 

No serious girlfriend or wife - he (and I) are both semi public figures and you can easily find that out through employees etc. Hes probably extremely busy (travels 50% for work), in his prime, and doesn’t want to settle and play the field. I’ll just go with the flow and see what happens. I think around 5+ dates he’s wondering where this is going and if he’s not looking for a relationship most likely he’ll slow down the pace or avoid Valentines. Just my gut feeling. Don’t think there is anyone else.

 

He’s not the best looking guy I’ve dated but I definitely feel chemistry and a strong connection. We work in related fields and have similar values and lots of common interests. We never run out of things to talk about.

 

I already have 3 other quality dates lined up this weekend which is exhausting but what can you do.

Edited February 15, 2019 by nychic009

[Wallysbears]

 

 

 

Oh, I am 30, he is 38.

 

 

Just throwing something out here.

 

In 2012, you posted here and told us that you were 25. In 2011, you said you were 24.

 

Now, in 2019 you are saying that you are 30.

 

I'm not a math genius by any stretch, but that doesn't add up.

 

Did you also tell this guy that you were 30?

 

Because maybe, just maybe, he checked you out and found that you've lied about your age and then questioned what else you lied about and decided he was no longer interested in anything?

 

Just a hypothetical.

[nychic009]

Just throwing something out here.

 

In 2012, you posted here and told us that you were 25. In 2011, you said you were 24.

 

Now, in 2019 you are saying that you are 30.

 

I'm not a math genius by any stretch, but that doesn't add up.

 

Did you also tell this guy that you were 30?

 

Because maybe, just maybe, he checked you out and found that you've lied about your age and then questioned what else you lied about and decided he was no longer interested in anything?

 

Just a hypothetical.

 

Not lying about my age. Way to get off track. I’m born in a different country and we have a different calendar. My American age is 30.