Maybe the end

[edgygirl]

Come on ZA. Many women like myself are sapiosexual. What melts my heart and wets me are brains. Ok - I need to be attracted, but only looks doesn’t so it for me. You cannot tell us that ALL South African females are not into someone who is into debating interesting stuff, or reading. That can’t possibly be true. Maybe you’re fishing in the wrong pond. Go to book reading discussions, fun but intelligent lectures on whatever interests you, wherever the geeky intelligent people usually go. I still think using a social lubricant as Elaine pointed out - one glass of wine - would help you relax a bit and be more “natural”. Have 1/3 of a glass at home every night so you get used to it first. It’s fun! Look in the right places and find a way to relax!

 

But the knowledge I have means nothing, its a great trick, the art of debate is a good asset but they aren't going home with me because I have those talents, they are going home with them because they are the macho guy, they are the drinking guy, they are the fun guy and they are the social guy.

 

I cant compete with that, the only hope I have is that one, one day who I do like actually bothers to think beyond how society defines a great guy to be. I regret not having fun in the my 20's but I was never that fun guy, people went to disco's I stayed home and read books about history and biographies.

[elaine567]

She went home with you. Remember the girl in your house that came back to your place "for a drink"?. That isn't why she was there. She just says that..

 

[JuneL]

Come on ZA. Many women like myself are sapiosexual. What melts my heart and wets me are brains. Ok - I need to be attracted, but only looks doesn’t so it for me. <snip>

 

Here’s one big fat secret about guys who claim to be too intellectual. If you read enough of his posts, you’ll realize he’s not nearly as intellectual as he would want us to believe.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Garcon1986]

Well, if you don't want to change any of your ways, we can at least be online buddies on LS

[ZA Dater]

Did you tell her you had no experience?

 

Awkwardness and shyness were very apparent to her because she went as far as to comment on that. At which point an interest she may have had vanished.

 

That's the point I am making is I am judged on that. I'd quite happily have seen her again but those two issues killed it completely dead as they do quite often actually. Its also this which leads me into the "project stage" where people see me as some sort of project "do this do, do that, pay for it, it will give you confidence, have wine etc."

 

Which would be completely ok IF these same people bothered to listen to what I say, if they did they would realise that some pay romp isn't going to make me feel any less lonely and isn't going to help me find anyone.

 

Someone here put it well "you squander all your good chances" and I'd actually agree with that but I don't do that intentionally. I get to a point where "what now", where I need to summon up some confidence and there is none. Much the same happened with the Swedish tourist. What I end up getting is like a half baked cake, its very nice but you feel sick the next day because it wasn't cooked properly.

 

The other problem is good chances are very few and far between, often there has been years between them so I just land up irritated with myself but again I never get any real sense any of these women like me like that, probably because nobody ever has.

 

Perhaps the biggest problem is text versus person, I can carry a huge amount of confidence in text conversation but replicating that in person is impossible, sometimes I can just about but mostly I cant so I often think what a massive disappointment it must be to actually meet me.

[ZA Dater]

Come on ZA. Many women like myself are sapiosexual. What melts my heart and wets me are brains. Ok - I need to be attracted, but only looks doesn’t so it for me. You cannot tell us that ALL South African females are not into someone who is into debating interesting stuff, or reading. That can’t possibly be true. Maybe you’re fishing in the wrong pond. Go to book reading discussions, fun but intelligent lectures on whatever interests you, wherever the geeky intelligent people usually go. I still think using a social lubricant as Elaine pointed out - one glass of wine - would help you relax a bit and be more “natural”. Have 1/3 of a glass at home every night so you get used to it first. It’s fun! Look in the right places and find a way to relax!

 

I accept that as being true unfortunately the level of competition for ladies like yourself here is ridiculous. Honestly I don't want really geeky people, I'd settle for someone normal who has some knowledge and some motivation in life.

 

I am intense, just who I am I suppose but I do try make dates funny even if I am making the joke about myself.

 

It simply becomes incredibly boring to me when every single date is the same, the ONLY success I have had in terms of being mentally stimulated have been with tourists and maybe the odd local. Then again I must be incredibly boring and un fun to most so I look at my bag of talents and try align them to the market and its like trying to land a A380 on a country air field, it wont work.

 

Most of dating for me is about being wowed, the Swedish girl did that, this one sort of half did it, she had had two drinks and was a bit abrasive and a language issue didn't help matters, though her body language at one point was quite good. The local yoga lady was great but I got fobbed off because she is chasing some guy who is 360 degrees different to me. So the issue is ok, I go on a date I try to enjoy it but cant really because there is no challenge.

 

Unfortunately I love a challenge the more difficult the better BUT I need to be able to make measurable advances to accomplishing that challenge but with dating that never happens. Mostly I think if I had to ask people their opinion of me on meeting me it would be very negative and it was the yoga lady, she admitted that she found me odd and strange but found me really great once she got to know me.

Edited February 28, 2019 by ZA Dater

[littleblackheart]

Every other thread of yours is a debate about the end of your dating career, except it's not actually the end of your dating career, right?

 

You're going to go on other dates, no?

 

I don't know how inflexible or rigid or intense you actually are, but I know intense people on real life who are managing to get in and out of relationships just fine.

 

Something else is preventing you from crossing the finish line.

 

A childhood trauma? Absent or uncaring parents? Severe social anxiety? Neurological disfunction? Extreme pickiness? Learned helplessness? Chronic depression? Pervasive self-confidence issue? Unrealistic image of yourself (ie you think you're better or worse than you actually are)?

Something else?

 

Whatever it is, whether real or imagined, you need to figure out what this something is, and you need to work at it. Without this breakthrough moment, you will carry on repeating the same pattern over and over again, imo.

 

Unless you're happy and comfortable with the way things are, and you're just waiting for your needle in a haystack to land on your lap - in which case, patience is all you require.

[clia]

Awkwardness and shyness were very apparent to her because she went as far as to comment on that. At which point an interest she may have had vanished.

 

That's the point I am making is I am judged on that. I'd quite happily have seen her again but those two issues killed it completely dead as they do quite often actually. Its also this which leads me into the "project stage" where people see me as some sort of project "do this do, do that, pay for it, it will give you confidence, have wine etc."

 

Which would be completely ok IF these same people bothered to listen to what I say, if they did they would realise that some pay romp isn't going to make me feel any less lonely and isn't going to help me find anyone.

 

Someone here put it well "you squander all your good chances" and I'd actually agree with that but I don't do that intentionally. I get to a point where "what now", where I need to summon up some confidence and there is none. Much the same happened with the Swedish tourist. What I end up getting is like a half baked cake, its very nice but you feel sick the next day because it wasn't cooked properly.

 

What steps have you taken to improve your awkwardness, shyness, and confidence? Have you read self help books, talked to a therapist, .... ?

[ZA Dater]

What steps have you taken to improve your awkwardness, shyness, and confidence? Have you read self help books, talked to a therapist, .... ?

 

I have tried to be more outgoing. Therapists did nothing for me, its hard to make a kid interested in politics who doesn't fit in with other kids be interested in disco's and I could never relate to many people so had very few friends growing up. At least I had respect and to some extent I still have now, people aren't going to socialise with me but they respected me.

 

On balance I think its better to be respected than be liked.

 

What people here don't seem to get is I cant get beyond being a friend, they just don't want that for whatever reason so I construct scenarios to try and get myself closer to actually having around. K is a good example of this, we work on projects there is some communication, "how's your week" and she takes some sort of interest in me which is nice because nobody else really does so I basically wonder through each day.

 

So when there is a blond sitting on my couch I am weigh up

 

1: I'd like to see her again

2: Make the most of this and look like an idiot which means I'll never see her again.

[elaine567]

Mostly I think if I had to ask people their opinion of me on meeting me it would be very negative and it was the yoga lady, she admitted that she found me odd and strange but found me really great once she got to know me.

 

This is never going to work on OLD as OLD is about first or early impressions and there is no time for you to "grow on someone".

Yoga girl due to circumstance had no problem spending the time with you as a paid client and a "friend". That is an artificial situation.

OLD daters will not give you the time needed for you to impress them, they pass and move on rapidly. "Odd and strange" are not on their list, so they do not want to know.

 

Like all others with conventionally "undesirable" traits you need to get yourself out there and meet people regularly so they get to know you first.

[JuneL]

I think some people have misunderstood OP. It’s clear from his zillion posts that he is attracted to a very mainstream girl and yet he expects the girl to tolerate going out with a weirdo (from the mainstream perspective). The funny thing is, he has been criticizing harshly the guys who are good with dating and with women, including the boyfriends of the girls he wants. On the other hand, he would go on and on about how he is being judged for his lack of experience and his social awkwardness.

 

I think MaleIntuition made some insightful observations here.

[ZA Dater]

Like all others with conventionally "undesirable" traits you need to get yourself out there and meet people regularly so they get to know you first.

 

The results are even worse with this. Cant say I am in a hurry to ever do this again anytime soon unless I magically find something that actually attracts people. As it stands doing this is like going war with one horse and a sword against an army of tanks.

 

People are even less accommodating in person, its even easier for them to dismiss, at least with OLD I get some conversation out of it, which I don't get in person. Classic case of this was a decent match on OLD but she rapidly lost interest despite the conversation being good.

 

Its patently obvious what the template of BF's is, you keep saying like to like and perhaps that's true but I don't buy into that fully because if I did I'd walk away completely.

 

Who knows why the yoga lady was friendly, maybe it was free lunches, dinners, being driven around. I actually had no issue what that and realistically if that was something I could have more often I wouldn't have the dating problem at all.

 

For those reading this, try put yourself in my shoes, just about the only thing I have is work and a few solo hobbies. Just imagine that sort life or try to.

[edgygirl]

I agree 100% with JuneL ^ OP wants to fit a round peg into a square hole. He wants to date mainstream girls “blond yoga girls” etc,, when he’s not mainstream and they see him as a “weirdo”. For the life of me I don’t understand why he can’t try to go for the girls who could appreciate someone like him. Apparently he is indeed attracted to the girls who won’t wabt him, the “disco girls”, it almost seems he has to prove to himself he has to get the them so he can fit in the world... although he says he doesn’t want to fit in.

 

I wonder if he made that clear to the psychologists he saw. Probably not as he doesn’t realize himself where his difficulties lie. So how could anyone help him without knowing his real issues? MaleIntuition indeed have good advice.

[elaine567]

For those reading this, try put yourself in my shoes, just about the only thing I have is work and a few solo hobbies. Just imagine that sort life or try to.

 

 

Ok work is work but why choose "solo" hobbies?

[ZA Dater]

I think some people have misunderstood OP. It’s clear from his zillion posts that he is attracted to a very mainstream girl and yet he expects the girl to tolerate going out with a weirdo (from the mainstream perspective). The funny thing is, he has been criticizing harshly the guys who are good with dating and with women, including the boyfriends of the girls he wants. On the other hand, he would go on and on about how he is being judged for his lack of experience and his social awkwardness.

 

I think MaleIntuition made some insightful observations here.

 

 

 

So I cant judge but must sit around and be judged? No I am attracted to someone who can actually think and dares question rather than fall in line like a sheep. These people are pretty rare. Ask yourself why fashion exists?

 

 

Why everyone follows it, there no logical reason at all. Wear what you want and you feel good in. Its like men who expect women to wear high heels, why?

 

 

So when I sit down with a date I don't even remotely try to be like other guys, in fact I try to be as different as possible. The look of shock on their faces is tangible, maybe there is a date book somewhere which prescribes how one must date and if so WHY? Who dictates what needs to happen when?

 

 

Yes I see dates much like I see a meeting and turn them into such when I get bored. If there is no common ground its like building a house without a foundation.

[edgygirl]

Also, what’s up with thinking the girls have to “wow” him (???) Seriously? No they don’t. Meet someone and let them grow on you. That’s what most people do. Especially the people who are not being successful in dating.

[edgygirl]

No they’re not. You’re just not making the effort to go meet people who are more alternative and less mainstream - artists, designers, musicians, writers, academics... Believe me - the blonde yoga girl won’t give you that. Yet you keep going for them. Get out of your comfort zone and try to find where other type of people are. Maybe they’ll give you a chance. But then you don’t drink, so they’d also think you’re weird... I rest my case.

 

No I am attracted to someone who can actually think and dares question rather than fall in line like a sheep. These people are pretty rare. Ask yourself why fashion exists?

 

Yes I see dates much like I see a meeting and turn them into such when I get bored. If there is no common ground its like building a house without a foundation.

[JuneL]

So I cant judge but must sit around and be judged? No I am attracted to someone who can actually think and dares question rather than fall in line like a sheep. These people are pretty rare. Ask yourself why fashion exists?

 

 

Why everyone follows it, there no logical reason at all. Wear what you want and you feel good in. Its like men who expect women to wear high heels, why?

 

 

So when I sit down with a date I don't even remotely try to be like other guys, in fact I try to be as different as possible. The look of shock on their faces is tangible, maybe there is a date book somewhere which prescribes how one must date and if so WHY? Who dictates what needs to happen when?

 

 

Yes I see dates much like I see a meeting and turn them into such when I get bored. If there is no common ground its like building a house without a foundation.

 

Sorry I can’t for the life of me comprehend your response...did you quote the wrong person? Is this typical of how you respond in a convo? You’re all over the place, and yet didn’t respond to my post.

 

Using your fashion example, you love to have a girl who is a hardcore fashion follower, and yet you expect her to be fine with someone who dresses like in the 90s; worse, you criticize harshly those guys who have a fashion sense and who can’t comprehend your clothing style (or lack thereof).

[JuneL]

“I am attracted to someone who can actually think and dares question rather than fall in line like a sheep.”

 

In case you’ve missed it, literally EVERY SINGLE POSTER in this thread, as well as in your other million threads, is questioning you!

[edgygirl]

Also I don’t understand what’s the problem with liking fashion.

 

I couldn’t be more far than mainstream or being a sheep, but appreciate fashion. It’s fun. I like men who dress contemporarily and (slightly) know what they’re doing clothing-wise. I don’t want a man with baggy pants from Seinfeld era It does make anyone seem like a weirdo. I think OP keeps saying everyone is judgmental but it is he who is. One needs to know what women want - no matter if they’re mainstream or not. For starters women want a guy who can dress in a pleasant way and who can have a glass of wine with them.

 

If you cannot conform to reality move to Mars and look for women there. Try to be more realistic.

Edited February 28, 2019 by edgygirl

[JuneL]

I suspect that, deep down, OP knows a truly intellectual girl wouldn’t be inpressed with a marketing/real-estate guy. So at least he can blame the shallowness of women by avoiding the intelligent group altogether.

[edgygirl]

June are we distant twins? Exactly my thoughts But maybe just maybe he will find amongst them one that will take the bait. One that’s interested in the subjects he says he’s interested (reading history or so). Not happening with the mainstream girls.

 

I suspect that, deep down, OP knows a truly intellectual girl wouldn’t be inpressed with a marketing/real-estate guy. So at least he can blame the shallowness of women by avoiding the intelligent group altogether.

[clia]

So when I sit down with a date I don't even remotely try to be like other guys, in fact I try to be as different as possible. The look of shock on their faces is tangible, maybe there is a date book somewhere which prescribes how one must date and if so WHY? Who dictates what needs to happen when?

 

It's very possible that you are coming across as an inauthentic try-hard. I've met people who are weird and different, but it's just who they are. I've also met people who are weird and different, who are acting even more weird and different just to get a reaction out of people. You can tell the difference.

 

But if you are trying so hard to show these women how different you are, then you really shouldn't be so upset when they decide (reasonably) that they don't want to be with someone who is so different. As someone else said, if you want to be different and don't want to follow the cultural norms of a date, then you need to find people who feel the same way (they are out there), not try to force a mainstream blonde yoga woman who just wants dinner and a drink to conform to your views of what a date should really be like.

 

Let me also ask this question. Imagine the female version of yourself. Would you want to go out on a date with that woman?

[Wallysbears]

What do you typically wear/how do you typically dress? Do you walk with confidence or do you walk around looking at your feet? Do you smile often? Do you stand straight or do you slouch? Is your hair cut neatly? Teeth straight and clean? Facial hair (if you have it) trimmed and neat? Do you do polite things like open a door or pull out a chair for a lady?

[ZA Dater]

I suspect that, deep down, OP knows a truly intellectual girl wouldn’t be inpressed with a marketing/real-estate guy. So at least he can blame the shallowness of women by avoiding the intelligent group altogether.

 

You left out corporate finance and accounting.