Maybe the end

[crispytoast]

Ok, I didn't read the whole thread, just the OP, but mate, check it.

 

 

 

You met her on an app, right? She came over to your place to have drinks with you, right? She was twirling her hair n sh*t and acting flirty, right? She practically delivered herself to you. She had sex on her mind, if she didn't she would've met you at a coffee shop or gone on a hike or some sh*t to feel you out. She came to your place with a pair of drinks in her. You kiss her early on the date and it goes one of two ways, either she goes home, or it progresses into something more.

 

 

Now I'm not trying to harsh on you. The first two women I ever met up with via a dating app came back to my place after a public meetup to smoke joints and listen to music. I didn't make a single f*cking move, I showed them my oh so impressive music collection and after about an hour they got bored and left. Never responded to my texts after that. I asked my friend what I was doing wrong and she goes, "they came back to your place to listen to music in your room and you didn't do a f*cking thing?" Whoa, bam, it clicked. The next woman I met with on an app, same thing, public meetup, came back to my place, within 10 minutes I kissed her, within 20 she was blowing me, and we had a f*cking fantastic night of sex and B-movies.

 

 

 

So stop thinking about it so much man. Someone who is basically a stranger isn't going to come to your place if they don't feel comfortable with your vibe already. And if you give up because of this relatively normal rejection, I can assure you that your chance of finding what you want will most likely never happen.

Edited February 25, 2019 by crispytoast

[ZA Dater]

After reading your first post, are you attractive? I’m assuming you are if you managed to get these dates. Maybe these women weren’t easy, or you didn’t tell them you wanted to watch a movie or something. From my experience my panties came off on the second or first dates if I find the guy sexually attracted to, it wouldn’t matter what he said, well unless he was a creep or said weird things to me then no. I give the green light

 

 

 

Unfortunately I am just awkward which they don't enjoy at all, I can see it but there is nothing I can really do about it so yes I can see things going wrong quite quickly but there is no real way to fix them.

 

 

I don't think they find me super attractive no, I have to work really, really hard and sell myself like a used car salesman sells a car to actually get a date and mostly I cant be bothered to go to this extent of grovelling anymore.

 

 

These dates were frankly an anomaly, in that mostly I cannot attract anyone I find attractive.

[Normm]

there is nothing I can really do about it

 

 

This right here is "victim mentality" in it's purest form.

[ZA Dater]

This right here is "victim mentality" in it's purest form.

 

 

 

There isn't. I tried. It doesn't work.

 

 

So yes as they say at every sports game there are many spectators who want to play but for whatever reason they cant, that's me at dating. I can sit on the side lines, watch the game, try understand it but cant play it.

 

 

No victim here, my situation is a result of the choices I made, the decisions I made, the approach I took, so yes if there is anyone to blame, I look at that person everyday.

 

 

I thought I made the right ones but clearly didn't. Its pointless to do anything other than own where I am and own the fact I am not seen as desirable. Sure, I can do seeking arrangement, use resources to go out to dinner with people I wouldn't ordinarily be able to go out with but that's fake and contrived.

 

 

Seeing some distant family this past weekend, married with kids, just made me feel even more lonely, a friend says I should just pay but that's not the issue, that wont take away the loneliness. I am very upfront about this, perhaps too honest.

 

 

Certain things you can have some measure of control over, dating and attraction aren't those things.

[ZA Dater]

Disagree. Speaking for myself, when I was last dating.. around 8 yrs ago before I met my girlfriend/life partner with whom I now live, I did just fine. No shortage of women to message on the dating sites, countless first dates, many of which went on for weeks before I pulled the plug because they weren't for me, and a half dozen serious relationships all of which I ended because again, they fell short of my needs. I recall maybe a handful of first dates where I was interested but she wasn't. This was after a 20 year marriage so I was somewhat out of practice. It's a game, and like any other game you learn from mistakes, experience, and practicing what works and what doesn't.

 

Or you refuse to learn, and adapt, and change, and you continue to fail and throw in a boatload of venting and complaining about things you supposedly can't control because that's the way the world is and theres nothing you can do about it. ZA's posts on this forum clearly describe the latter.

 

 

 

Learn to do what? There isn't some manual here, every person is different, every situation different, I wish there was some analytical aspect to this because then I might enjoy some success!

 

 

What am I suppose to learn from when I don't get feedback, I have been getting this same nonsensical argument since I joined here, you can only learn with feedback but seeing as most dates are too spineless to provide any I don't see where the learning comes from.

 

 

Practice, with who? People you don't find attractive, again what purpose does that serve, nothing at all, like earing food you hate, because well you can be bothered to find any you do like.

 

 

I am starting to find a degree of peace being alone, its not nice, most days its very lonely but it is what it is, I can be this or unhappy with someone I don't want, someone who doesn't interest me or wow me at all. Given the choice I'd rather be lonely than feel I settled for something I don't want.

 

 

That's the thing, nobody I know has had to settle, sure some have chosen poorly in my opinion but they have chosen nonetheless. I went out on Sat, why I have no idea, care to guess how many people I talked to: zero. I just sat at the bar, water in hand and looked around. The price to be paid for being different, the price to pay for not seeing everything how society wants me to see it. But hey I wasn't surprised, tall, athletic outgoing guy with slim athletic lady. Unfit guy with equally unfit lady. Its all much of a much ness really.

 

 

Probably I enjoy the challenge more than I do the result, I have no chance with anyone pretty but it doesn't stop me wondering "what if".

[chillii]

l don't believe that for a second.

She came over like that and l'd be thinking as some others have said , sounds like she had the interest to start no matter what she said.

So if that was the case there, everything you say you can't have was right in front of you and happening, for awhile !

This is what the 3rd or forth girl you've been around in a month or two , yeah l know the yoga was bla bla the Swede was bla bla, but your around them and this one came over like that at that time of night.

 

lt's not that don't have a shot l think you do. You just need to get yourself a start.The awkwardness will go bit by bit once you build up.

It is all right there in your hands, You can change all this ,which'll change your life.

And eh , when you go to a bar at least get a damn coke in that glass so no one can tell what your drinking, sipping on water's not a good look.

[Normm]

There isn't. I tried. It doesn't work.

 

 

You did not try. You did not attempt to make a move on her because you fear rejection. You did not put yourself out there, you never change your approach because fear drives your inaction. You say "there's nothing you can do" while there have been dozens of excellent suggestions made by experienced helpful posters on dozens of threads you have started on this subject and you have not tried a single one. You don't know if something doesn't work if you never actually tried it, yet you dismiss them out of hand. One example being a dating coach, another example being when you've got a woman at your place. The normal approach is to take advantage of the opportunity presented, and try to kiss her or at least show some affection and see where it goes. What's the worst that can happen? Perhaps she gives you feedback to the effect of "sorry not interested". But you can't even stand the though of that, as you have posted, "I can't handle rejection". That's your issue, not a matter of circumstance. Own it man.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Normm

[ZA Dater]

But you can't even stand the though of that, as you have posted, "I can't handle rejection". That's your issue, not a matter of circumstance. Own it man.

And you would keep hitting your face against the wall? Methinks not. What am I getting out this? Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Not even friend zone because apparently I am not good enough for that either. I must be accepting and put myself out for what exactly? To be kicked in the face, to be passed over, to be used. Every single one of these dates used me and what benefit did I get, nothing at all. Again why bother?

 

There is no benefit being rejected so why put myself in that position? If in 24 years nobody has wanted me why would they want me know, I am more out of step now than I was then, being shy and awkward at 21 is ok, less so at 35. Rejection is not constructive either. If I mess up a budget I can get some critique on it but that's never the case at dating.

 

Do I resent the entire concept, yes I do because time and time again I hear the same old moans from women and time and time again I wonder why I was passed over. But who cares really, honestly who does, people see their own interests first rather than the picture and women don't care about good guys. So yes I'll walk around bitter and dateless which is better than living on false hope.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ZA Dater]

l

lt's not that don't have a shot l think you do. You just need to get yourself a start.The awkwardness will go bit by bit once you build up.

It is all right there in your hands, You can change all this ,which'll change your life.

And eh , when you go to a bar at least get a damn coke in that glass so no one can tell what your drinking, sipping on water's not a good look.

I only drink water. Again why must I bend over for society? I simply refuse to do this under any circumstances if I am judged poorly for only drinking water then I wouldn't want that person anyway. Nobody is prepared to give me the benefit of the doubt so that's hardly my issue, its again some stupid notion created by media and society.

 

The power to change this isn't with me, its with these dates, I can only be what I am, if they don't like it then tough really, I don't see any of these women selling their virtues to me, I don't see them showing any interest. Its fantastic they know I'll be there to help whenever they want, they go back to bf and all is well. I am like the puppy, give him half a treat and he will come running for attention.

 

Again why, that stunning brunette isn't going to be interested in me when she has the choice of any guys, guys with experienced, guys who have dated. Why would she pass them over for me, simply put she wouldn't. All three of these dates were examples of that.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[clia]

I only drink water. Again why must I bend over for society? I simply refuse to do this under any circumstances if I am judged poorly for only drinking water then I wouldn't want that person anyway.

 

Then a bar isn't the right place for you to meet people. If you are sitting at a bar, the expectation is that you will be buying a drink -- at minimum, an iced tea or a soda. This is not only a societal expectation by the other patrons in the bar, but a financial expectation by the owners of the bar, where you are sitting and taking up a seat. Were you at least eating food, or you were you just sitting there with a glass of water?

 

The power to change this isn't with me, its with these dates, I can only be what I am, if they don't like it then tough really, I don't see any of these women selling their virtues to me, I don't see them showing any interest. Its fantastic they know I'll be there to help whenever they want, they go back to bf and all is well.

 

But...they aren't the ones having trouble dating. Why do they have to change? And why should they change for you, a complete stranger? It goes both ways, too. If you don't like them, then, tough. Why won't you change yourself for them? Do you see your own hypocrisy?

 

Again why, that stunning brunette isn't going to be interested in me when she has the choice of any guys, guys with experienced, guys who have dated. Why would she pass them over for me, simply put she wouldn't. All three of these dates were examples of that.

 

Then I guess you have to accept that you won't get the stunning brunette. You need to find someone else, who will be interested in you. At this point, you are alone because on some level, you are choosing to be alone. When you have an opportunity, like the woman who was at your place, you don't take it. Anyone you go out on a date with you find some reason to dislike or criticize. You don't seem to want to make any adjustments to make yourself seem more "normal" and less weird. Instead, you are stubbornly clinging to your uniqueness. And that's fine -- don't change if you don't want to. It's no skin off my back, or anyone else's. But your reality is that right now you don't have a lot of options and you squander the ones you do have.

[chillii]

I only drink water. Again why must I bend over for society? I simply refuse to do this under any circumstances if I am judged poorly for only drinking water then I wouldn't want that person anyway. Nobody is prepared to give me the benefit of the doubt so that's hardly my issue, its again some stupid notion created by media and society.

 

The power to change this isn't with me, its with these dates, I can only be what I am, if they don't like it then tough really, I don't see any of these women selling their virtues to me, I don't see them showing any interest. Its fantastic they know I'll be there to help whenever they want, they go back to bf and all is well. I am like the puppy, give him half a treat and he will come running for attention.

 

Again why, that stunning brunette isn't going to be interested in me when she has the choice of any guys, guys with experienced, guys who have dated. Why would she pass them over for me, simply put she wouldn't. All three of these dates were examples of that.

l hear what your saying about what you drink but mate , l'd be the least conforming guy in this whole damn forum, from birth.

But yaknow , there are simple things where really, nothing makes any difference to anything yet can just up your look a little , so what. Women try to up their look and ways to attract guys, it's only natural, presidents do it, animals do it, people do it, of course , we want a mate. It's only a drink, so what, who givesafk, that's all l'm sayin. Don;t sweat the small stuff it'll only drag you down not up.

 

 

One thing l noticed in all that among many , is your blending all these women in together. She was a separate person and a whole different situation. While yeah sure we soon wise up to the habits in general of the opposite sex , at the same time you still gotta keep and open mind on the individual. Anyway ok whatever you think, doin what you always do only gets what you always got but eh, if your happy to go with that then no worries.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[edgygirl]

Society doesn’t care what you drink. But having a whiskey shot might help you stop overthinking, relax and go for a kiss. Why do you think people drink on dates? Even for us women it helps relax the tension of a first date.

 

I only drink water. Again why must I bend over for society? I simply refuse to do this under any circumstances if I am judged poorly for only drinking water then I wouldn't want that person anyway.

[Normm]

You had a girl at your place ready for action and you blew it by doing nothing because of your fear of rejection. You were "friendzoned" and "passed over" because you didn't make a move. No one's fault but your own.

[elaine567]

Society doesn’t care what you drink. But having a whiskey shot might help you stop overthinking, relax and go for a kiss. Why do you think people drink on dates? Even for us women it helps relax the tension of a first date.

Yes, yes and yes.

We have said this numerous times to no avail here.

Alcohol is a social lubricant and whilst no one is suggesting drinking every day to excess, few of us would have had the experiences we have had without it.

[ZA Dater]

 

Then I guess you have to accept that you won't get the stunning brunette. You need to find someone else, who will be interested in you. At this point, you are alone because on some level, you are choosing to be alone. When you have an opportunity, like the woman who was at your place, you don't take it. Anyone you go out on a date with you find some reason to dislike or criticize. You don't seem to want to make any adjustments to make yourself seem more "normal" and less weird. Instead, you are stubbornly clinging to your uniqueness. And that's fine -- don't change if you don't want to. It's no skin off my back, or anyone else's. But your reality is that right now you don't have a lot of options and you squander the ones you do have.

 

Firstly it still water so yes I paid for it. I have made heavy compromises to try date, been to places I did not like to try and placate people, pretended to be interested in things I am not, tried to be charming, was kind, thoughtful but it still does not work. A classic example of this was the yoga instructor, I spent ages with here, took her places, went to lunches, had a dinner and guess what she is chasing some other guy who isn't even interested in her.

 

I am simply not interest in people I don't find attractive on any level, your argument seems to be the same tired of "well you gotta date those who like you even if you don't like them".

 

I have never had many options, I have always chased the very hard/unattainable because I like that challenge. What I have done is look at people who do have lots of options and determine as to why and in no particular order.

 

1: Good looks

2: Outgoing and charming

3: Flirty

4: Ability to tell flat out lies to try impress someone

5: Chameleon type personalities, project something completely false to attract someone

6: Money

 

And yes I like being unique, I actually decided not to follow people early in life is it a bad thing, I don't think so but its a terrible thing for dating. So I guess I need to choose, live the life I am happy with and be alone or conform and live a miserable life because even if I did I still wouldn't be able to conform enough to attract anyone and if I did they would throw me away because "when was your last relationship" "well I have never had one", trust me I deliver that answer and the entire thing falls flat like a pancake on the floor. Indicative of a severe level of judgemental thinking, so yes I will criticize and find fault because its done to me.

 

I have no idea why she came to my place, none at all because all she wanted was a drink. She told me as much.

 

Yes I will keep looking at what I like, a glance is free, a date is impossible so its about recognising what the inherent limitations here. And yes I am not going to show any interest because its a given they wont be interested in me and its also a given they wont show any, I am expected to make moves and then get rejected. No thanks, I'd rather do nothing.

[ZA Dater]

Yes, yes and yes.

We have said this numerous times to no avail here.

Alcohol is a social lubricant and whilst no one is suggesting drinking every day to excess, few of us would have had the experiences we have had without it.

I just find that sad. The fact the society needs alcohol for this makes no sense to me, its basically admitting we as people cannot communicate effectively without lowering inhibitions. Its also exactly why I don't buy into the whole drinking thing at all.

 

I tried it three times to see if it made any difference and it did not. It did make one lady I went on a date with very rowdy and unpleasant and I ask myself this, if she will only sleep with me after a few drinks then does she really find me attractive to begin with? Probably not.

 

Thinking about it I just don't see a lot of positivity in this whole dating situation, people say, yes there were 3 dates but none worked, I talked the Swedish lady too but ultimately got nothing, she too wanted to meet late at night but I am glad I didn't because the outcome would have been the same. I just never really get the sense they like me, the only one I legitimately messed up with was the very drunk lady who was all over me in the restaurant, I turned her down because the idea of being with someone that drunk didn't morally sit well with me.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[MaleIntuition]

All your posts have so many contradictions that it’s hard to know where to start.

 

Perhaps the biggest one is that you on the one hand claim to build your own identity as the antagonist to society (ie. refuse to conform). But at the same time write about girls whom are so mainstream it’s almost ridiculous. And your main complaint reflects this as well “Girls are only interested in partying”. Which is only true for a subset of mainstream society. Mainstream girls will not be interested in dating what they consider “wierdoes”, and that concept should not be very hard to grasp. At some level you must have realised that non mainstream girls are found in bookstores, at church, gaming events, chess clubs, or at some obscure university class about the possibility of space cowboys. Not on tinder at 2 am or at rave parties!

 

Which leaves us the question why you insist on trying to date those mainstream girls when you claim to hate all that is mainstream? Another example of this is the way you repeatedly paint with a broad brush; all girls want this or that - when in reality girls want different things. My armchair conclusion is that perhaps you are seeking validation and acceptance from mainstream society through those dates.

 

My point is; people whom are truly going their own way actually don’t give af about wherever or not it is socially acceptable to drink water at parties - they do whatever and don’t complain on online forums about how the world is all wrong.

[elaine567]

... its basically admitting we as people cannot communicate effectively without lowering inhibitions.

 

Yes, and you are a prime example of that very flaw in our make up.

It is no coincidence that so many people meet in pubs, clubs, social gatherings and dinner parties.

The alcohol flows and gives courage and a sense of joie de vivre to those who would naturally sit quiet and go home early alone...

 

 

Noone is suggesting that you take advantage of drunk women.

It is you that needs loosening up and calming down, so that you can take the leap into the unknown, instead of remaining stiff and rigid and "in control" and no doubt panicking too, which to date has got you nowhere.

[ZA Dater]

<snip>It is you that needs loosening up and calming down, so that you can take the leap into the unknown, instead of remaining stiff and rigid and "in control" and no doubt panicking too, which to date has got you nowhere.

I have had the accusation leveled at my before by a friend. Sadly its just who I am. As far as calm goes, I am very calm, just probably very un interesting to 95% of people.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ZA Dater]

<snip>Mainstream girls will not be interested in dating what they consider “wierdoes”, and that concept should not be very hard to grasp. At some level you must have realised that non mainstream girls are found in bookstores, at church, gaming events, chess clubs, or at some obscure university class about the possibility of space cowboys. Not on tinder at 2 am or at rave parties!<snip>

 

1: I work 9.5 hours a day

2: I don't go to university

 

Yes I'd like to be accepted for me instead of having to try be someone else to make other people like me.

 

Yes, I don't really care but I do care about being alone ALL of the time, lunches alone, dinners alone, movies alone, everything alone, birthdays alone etc. Try living like that and tell me what its like. So yes being me comes at a very high cost.

 

They don't want different things if they did they would at least consider me, which they don't. I look at who they land up with and in most respects its much of a much ness.

 

Again if the boot fits, I'll wear it, if they see me as weird then so be it really, I think its weird that people date people who couldn't care less about them, it think its weird that I am asked to do things their BF should do but don't but I guess its all perception. I do know I can sit around a table and make many of those BF's look highly apathetic, I know I can make many of them look plain stupid.

 

But the knowledge I have means nothing, its a great trick, the art of debate is a good asset but they aren't going home with me because I have those talents, they are going home with them because they are the macho guy, they are the drinking guy, they are the fun guy and they are the social guy.

 

I cant compete with that, the only hope I have is that one, one day who I do like actually bothers to think beyond how society defines a great guy to be. I regret not having fun in the my 20's but I was never that fun guy, people went to disco's I stayed home and read books about history and biographies.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[MaleIntuition]

1: I work 9.5 hours a day 2: I don't go to university

Yes I'd like to be accepted for me instead of having to try be someone else to make other people like me.

<snip>

 

And here is another example of a contradiction. You claim to be a good debater, yet you ignore or miss every single point that I made.

 

Stop seeking acceptance among those whom you look down upon! There are others out there! Find your own crew of wierdoes and be with them instead. A girlfriend is not a (instant) solution to loneliness; that’s what you should have friends for. No girl will want to be your saviour or drag you along to meet the “cool” kids.

 

Seriously. You sound obsessed with this wierd trance-party culture. There is what? 58 million people in South Africa? You honestly don’t believe any of those would be interested in literature or philosophy or whatever that isn’t rave party?

 

Time to find new friends.

 

And even if you insist that’s impossible. That all girls whom you could possibly be attracted to are exactly the same in South Africa. You still have the damn solution. You pack your ****. And you move.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ZA Dater]

Stop seeking acceptance among those whom you look down upon! There are others out there! Find your own crew of wierdoes and be with them instead. A girlfriend is not a (instant) solution to loneliness; that’s what you should have friends for. No girl will want to be your saviour or drag you along to meet the “cool” kids <snip>

Not interested in them either. All I simply want are people who actually think about things rather than accepting them without questioning. These people do exist but none are seemingly into me. Moving is impractical.

 

My issue is this, I accept people don't like me for being me, I know they want someone who fits in but why? Honestly why? Everyday I see examples of unappreciative boyfriends, not surprising because I am the crutch for these people to moan to. And yet. This date was a good example of this, as have been a few others, I didn't try anything with her but she wasn't interested in seeing me again. Am I wrong to actually want to get to know someone before I take my clothes off?

 

I don't trust many people so I am not exactly going to spin my life story on a date and frankly its not relevant either. I spent many hours with the yoga girl and it was nice because we just talked about anything even mundane stuff but as soon as I did show some interest, I got flatly rejected. Why keep showing interest, I have no reason to, why don't women show interest?

 

Even if I miraculously became attractive I would be disqualified for some other stupid reason, yet when men do this we are being picky yet women do it ALL the time? My point is no matter what I do there will be some reason why I am passed up. SO why bother?

 

If this date was half decent she would have seen "ok he is not experienced lets make a move" instead it was "kick in the face", I will always be disadvantaged by that which is probably why I make such a useful "friend" because they know I don't know how to make a move and they aren't so if they string me along, use me I get the benefit of attention and they get the benefit of help.

 

I'd just like a chance once but I am sure the band wagon will chime in "but that single mom or but the overweight lady", those aren't chance, I want what my friends and everyone else seemingly has the ability to choose rather than sit around and wait to be chosen by someone I don't want.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Normm]

I do know I can sit around a table and make many of those BF's look highly apathetic, I know I can make many of them look plain stupid.

To whom will they look stupid? To you? Don't think they care.

 

They're still getting laid at the end of the day. Well not all of them. But some of them. Maybe even most of them. The ones that aren't are satisfied with a subpar relationship, or like you are afraid to trade up for something better because "what if they fail"?

they aren't going home with me because I have those talents, they are going home with them because they are the macho guy, they are the drinking guy, they are the fun guy and they are the social guy.

She went home with you. Remeber the girl in your house that came back to your place "for a drink"?. That isn't why she was there. She just says that. They all say that because they want to pretend that there's more to it then just hopping in bed but you gotta read between the lines. Read the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" to get an understanding of what women really mean when they say something.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[elaine567]

If this date was half decent she would have seen "ok he is not experienced lets make a move" instead it was "kick in the face", I will always be disadvantaged by that which is probably why I make such a useful "friend" because they know I don't know how to make a move and they aren't so if they string me along, use me I get the benefit of attention and they get the benefit of help.

 

 

Did you tell her you had no experience?

[MaleIntuition]

Not interested in them either. All I simply want are people who actually think about things rather than accepting them without questioning. These people do exist but none are seemingly into me.<snip>

 

So that’s it then? You are only interested in the mainstream girls? Meh. Why can’t I shake the feeling that this probably is all about you trying to “prove” something to so called friends.

Edited February 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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