Maybe the end

[ZA Dater]

Have you considered a decent enough looking 40something for the same thing? A take charge cougar with no further expectations than one night (or two, or three?)

 

Let her show you the ropes, then take what you’ve learned into the age bracket you’re aiming for. After reading here for years, I think I may have missed that calling, for which there’s a very obvious need. My one experience was a blast; not sure why I didn’t think to make more of a hobby of it.

 

Que sera sera.

 

 

 

No but I am considering an "arrangement" type of thing, I can choose from fairly decently looking people, take them out to dinner and I can stack the cards in my favour from the start to the extent that they can make a move on me. Well in theory anyway.

 

 

The thing with me is I like "exotic" be it looks or personality and as the years go by this is becoming more and more a thing for me. Ordinary doesn't interest me at all, there needs to be something different about them.

 

 

More and more when I reflect I perhaps need to give less emotionally, invest less from the outset and maybe turning a date into a business meeting isn't such a bad idea.

[guest569]

That was the sole reason I invited her back. My problem is there is no signal that suggests ok kiss me.

 

 

I think I am going to go back to a few of these arrangement business type dates again, maybe that's the short term solution.

 

Yeah keep trying but also have an honest reflection and figure out where you went wrong and what you would do differently. Concise. Concrete stuff.

[chillii]

That was the sole reason I invited her back. My problem is there is no signal that suggests ok kiss me.

 

 

I think I am going to go back to a few of these arrangement business type dates again, maybe that's the short term solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well , there is , but don't worry it's often a scary moment for anyone.

But you know lots of things, but if she's touchy , sit's close , legs , love legs touching, seems to wanna sit close be close, stuff like that , you can touch she doesn't move away or brush it off , hopefully returns it, your probably on the right track.

Keep at it hang in there , things will happen eventually.

[Grey40]

No but I am considering an "arrangement" type of thing, I can choose from fairly decently looking people, take them out to dinner and I can stack the cards in my favour from the start to the extent that they can make a move on me. Well in theory anyway.

 

 

The thing with me is I like "exotic" be it looks or personality and as the years go by this is becoming more and more a thing for me. Ordinary doesn't interest me at all, there needs to be something different about them.

 

 

More and more when I reflect I perhaps need to give less emotionally, invest less from the outset and maybe turning a date into a business meeting isn't such a bad idea.

 

 

 

You’re overthinking this stuff way too much. It’s not difficult. You have too much fear. Women don’t make moves. Very rarely. They won’t alwasy give you a clear signal that it’s ok. In this case. The fact she said yes to come back to you house at 1230am is the only signal you need. Just go in for a kiss and stop worrying about what might happen. Worst case scenario is she’ll stop you, best case scenario is it leads to you getting laid. Pretty good risk/reward if you ask me.

 

the problem isn’t anything you’re doing at all. And you have no problem getting dates and getting them back to your place—you’re just being a little bitch about kissing them. Man up and make the move. Stop being a wuss.

[ZA Dater]

You’re overthinking this stuff way too much. It’s not difficult. You have too much fear. Women don’t make moves. Very rarely. They won’t alwasy give you a clear signal that it’s ok. In this case. The fact she said yes to come back to you house at 1230am is the only signal you need. Just go in for a kiss and stop worrying about what might happen. Worst case scenario is she’ll stop you, best case scenario is it leads to you getting laid. Pretty good risk/reward if you ask me.

 

the problem isn’t anything you’re doing at all. And you have no problem getting dates and getting them back to your place—you’re just being a little bitch about kissing them. Man up and make the move. Stop being a wuss.

 

 

 

I guess there is some merit to this but when I get rejected always its easier to just not bother to take any risk at all.

 

 

I had a think about this whole scenario again and maybe the mistake was mine to begin with, even suggesting come home with me was maybe a bad idea considering I don't have that much confidence, this unfortunately had happened before though in those instances they were not remotely as attractive as this lady was.

 

 

Most of what I mess up is because I don't have any sort of confidence so yes most of my life I devote to work because its one area where I have some confidence in my ability. Mostly this is why I enjoyed spending time with a yoga teacher, I had some confidence around her, ultimately not enough but enough to feel good about myself.

[ChatroomHero]

You think other guys have something that you don't it seems. I think you have something that some other guys don't, a crippling fear/anxiety/whatever when it comes to someone you are attracted to.

 

 

It sounds like you have a tendency to get ahead of yourself and focus solely on the end goal instead of the steps in between. From your other posts it seems you are worried about the outcome (that you seem to predetermine even before a date) rather than the steps before and during a date. I'll say this, as long as you go into a date thinking there is no way this hot girl would ever want me, you will never be successful. Never. If you can't get past that thinking, you won't even get to first base. How you get past it is up to you. This latest girl felt uncomfortable because you had an agenda you weren't prepared to stray from rather than feeling out the situation and responding accordingly.

 

 

So ultimately I think you know that the issue is that fear stops you from acting normal and thinking clearly and coming across well when you are attracted to someone. I think you are trying to leap for the finish line when you are just off the starting blocks. There is no easy answer. But there is an answer. When your mind starts analyzing, change your track of thinking. Teach yourself to focus on the date. Forget your agenda. Talk to her like a person with your big head and keep the little one out of the mix. Your pre-date goals should be the following:

 

 

1. Meet her

2. See if you like her

 

 

That's it. From your posts I think your goals are:

 

 

1. Meet her

2. Figure out how to get her to go on a second date, fall in love with you, sleep with you. -This goal what is perpetuating your fear. You're setting a goal too high. You judge your actions and her actions by how close they get you to this goal so everything outside of her dropping her panties at the sight of you will seem like a failure.

[losangelena]

I agree with the above, and I also think the only way you’ll ever get better at this is through continuing to flounder your way through it. You won’t magically get from point A to point M without TRYING (and failing). You’re not trying. Inviting them over is not trying. You seem to want the woman in the situation to make the move—that is delusional thinking. She’s already come to a strangers house at 12:30 in the morning. How much more is she expected to stick her neck out, exactly?

[chillii]

I agree with the above, and I also think the only way you’ll ever get better at this is through continuing to flounder your way through it. You won’t magically get from point A to point M without TRYING (and failing). You’re not trying. Inviting them over is not trying. You seem to want the woman in the situation to make the move—that is delusional thinking. She’s already come to a strangers house at 12:30 in the morning. How much more is she expected to stick her neck out, exactly?

 

 

 

 

Yeah this is the thing. That was a huge thing she did coming over like that took a lotta guts, that's way way way enough on her part.

You've gotta look after her and take the reigns from there. It doesn't matter if your shaking like a leaf inside we've all been there , you've gotta push through that to the next phase but once you do things will be all different for you from then on and get better and better.

lt can only happen though from you.

Your still making some progress though just look at the last 3 women you've met , nice, and what an improvement on before so keep at it you'll get there.

[Normm]

I had a think about this whole scenario again and maybe the mistake was mine to begin with, even suggesting come home with me was maybe a bad idea considering I don't have that much confidence

 

 

I would have posted earlier on this thread but I was zinged by a moderator and had a 5 day time out.

 

Anyway, here's what I think happened. You were having a pretty good time with this girl, conversation was flowing, there was some mutual attraction and you figured what the heck, let's put it out there. So you said "want to come back to my place" not thinking that she'd say yes in a million years.

 

Suddenly you and her are headed back to your place and you are scared out of your freaking mind, barely able to contain your anxiety and having no clue what to do next because you've never been alone with a girl who is willing to go the next step. So you do nothing, and she's disappointed because to her, some fast, easy, noncommitted sex is something she probably does on a regular basis and she feels like she wasted her time and/or she's thinking somethings wrong with this guy why isn't he making a move on me?

 

It reminds me of a situation I was in some 30 years ago when I was in my early 20s. I was visiting my sister who lives out of state and she went away for the weekend (as planned) and left me her home to stay in. I hit it off with her very attractive friend, and we decided to do a barbecue the following day after my sister left. I picked her up, we went shopping, we had the barebecue, we were chatting, and then I said sort of half joking "Hey want to take a shower?" She answered "sure" and got up and started walking towards the bathroom. I was rather stunned, although more prepared than you because even though I was a bit nervous and not all that experienced I was not a virgin. She was maybe my 3rd or so.

 

Anyway a few minutes later we were soaping each other up in the shower, and a few minutes after that we were screwing. I remember I had some performance anxiety and had to hold the base of my penis as I inserted it because I wasn't fully erect. The rest went just fine.

 

In your case you have no experience so you just gotta push through and go for it. If a woman says "yes" to your invite, she WANTS to fool around and you just gotta make the move. Start by caressing her shoulders then work towards her boobs, and see what responses you get. All you gotta do is keep moving it forward and be aware of her signals. It really isn't that tough but you gotta push yourself above your comfort and anxiety levels. Remember sex is one of those basic human things that we are prewired to do, and some girls are just fine with casual sex, they won't be offended if you make the moves, in fact they are expecting it.

[edgygirl]

ZA, the only signal you needed was her accepting going to your place at 12:30.

 

You have to go for it, even if 100 women reject your kissing attempt, if 1 accepts it, that’s all you need. We actually like men who take the initiative. It’s very conflicting to us when they don’t. While it’s true there may be no interest if you try, at least you’ll know. Men here keep saying that rejection is part of a man’s dating life, all men - not just you. Next time, or next times - try. Don’t get too upset if it doesn’t happen. You’ll feel more confident as you go. We only need ONE woman to like you back. Just do it. Don’t overthink.

 

My problem is there is no signal that suggests ok kiss me.

[Grey40]

The only way to build confidence is to fail until you succeed. Some guys can’t even get dates, so you’re far ahead of that. You got an atttactive girl back yo your place, another plus. Learn to be detached from the outcome. Caring too much about losing the girl or getting rejected ultimately leads to you getting rejected anyway. There’s nothing to lose when she’s putting herself essentially on a platter for you. If you had no confirdence, she wouldn’t have even agreed to come over, so clearly you’re not portraying weakness to her. Just go for it dude, seriously. You’ll thank yourself for not being a wuss.

 

Nothing scares girls away quicker than overthinking. Girls can tell when you’re in your own head and are second guessing. When it comes to this stuff, it’s all instinct and gut moves. Thinking will never work.keep telling yourself that you don’t give a **** about what happens or the outcome. That mindset allows you to relax and not think because you simply could care less whether it works. Sounds counterproductive but it’s really helpful

Edited February 15, 2019 by Grey40

[ZA Dater]

Generally speaking the problem is I think about everything and most things are outcome based to lesser or greater degrees. The inherent problem here was "I will come back with you but I am not going to sleep with you", perhaps I should have added that in.

 

 

Overall I had a better this week, better because I survived valentines day without feeling lonely which was a vast improvement on the last decade or so.

 

 

Friend tried to set me up with someone else, who doesn't interest me in the slightest.

 

 

Perhaps the stupid thing is for me to do dating in a detached way some of you suggest I need to make it like work, have a specific objective in mind. Someone said determine if I like her, well most of them I don't like and its almost as if I chase the ones I know wouldn't like me and maybe sometimes, albeit very rarely I get surprised when one does.

 

 

I don't offer up particularly much anymore because if I get rejected then I am not so surprised and I haven't shared anything with her. Boils down to trust and most people I don't trust enough to open up and offer up anything.

 

 

Someone asked why I think I am not worth their time, well its simple, I go out, I look around and I see the sort of guys the pretty ladies are with and none are like me, none at all. So yes, I can think I can get the pretty Croatian tourist but the reality is based on what I am I have next to zero chance so I don't usually bother trying.

 

 

I'll try every so often but I still think I need to have something about me which makes me attractive to them, no idea exactly what though.

 

 

I did once have one make a move, she simply leaned across and kissed me, ultimately I mess that up by instead wanting a second date, which never materialised.

[ZA Dater]

1. Meet her

2. See if you like her

 

 

That's it. From your posts I think your goals are:

 

 

1. Meet her

2. Figure out how to get her to go on a second date, fall in love with you, sleep with you. -This goal what is perpetuating your fear. You're setting a goal too high. You judge your actions and her actions by how close they get you to this goal so everything outside of her dropping her panties at the sight of you will seem like a failure.

 

 

There is some truth to this. BUT the reason why I do this is because none ever want to see me again ever so I might as well see how much of "dating experience" I can experience on the first date, assuming its someone I find attractive, which again is extremely rare.

[some_username1]

There is some truth to this. BUT the reason why I do this is because none ever want to see me again ever so I might as well see how much of "dating experience" I can experience on the first date, assuming its someone I find attractive, which again is extremely rare.

 

Three this year alone is not extremely rare. It sounds like you are doing your best to feel sorry for yourself by exaggerating things. You must be able to see that you do so because people are always pointing it out?

[ZA Dater]

Three this year alone is not extremely rare. It sounds like you are doing your best to feel sorry for yourself by exaggerating things. You must be able to see that you do so because people are always pointing it out?

 

 

 

1: Swedish tourist on her last day, not exactly a prospect

2: Yoga instructor who doesn't live in this city who is chasing another guy, admittedly I probably had 3 "dates" with her which were rather nice even if she didn't see them as dates

3: Croatian tourist "you are not my type"

 

 

Not sure where the potential is in those to be fair, the yoga instructor is what I would actually like purely because I find her personality very attractive which makes her attractive as a person. Then again this always what I do, there is some appeal in chasing the seemingly impossible.

[chillii]

You like her personality because you liked it.

Not because it was unobtainable .

[ZA Dater]

You like her personality because you liked it.

Not because it was unobtainable .

 

 

 

Well she is chasing a guy who has no interest in her at all, she lives in another city 1300 km away. That being said she is fairly unobtainable.

[chillii]

Ahh right so you more meant it just that in every time you do like someone she's unobtainable , gotcha.

 

ps, my gf lived 1200 kl away.

Not that that's much help if that ones chasing someone else, just sayin.

[ZA Dater]

Ahh right so you more meant it just that in every time you do like someone she's unobtainable , gotcha.

 

ps, my gf lived 1200 kl away.

Not that that's much help if that ones chasing someone else, just sayin.

 

 

 

No but again I always seem to like what I cant have....

 

 

Maybe there is some merit in the keep trying till it works theory but should it not have worked by now? Am chatting to someone else but again just feels like I am doing all the work which isn't very appealing.

[Blanco]

Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and be willing to accept that you might fail. And by "put yourself out there," I mean, "make a move."

 

Most women I've known might show interest in subtle ways. Very few of them are going to do all or most of the work and just jump on top of you. Agreeing to take things back to someone's place late at night is not an iron-clad guarantee that something physical in the sexual realm is going to happen BUT it strongly hints at it. While it's ultimately the choice of both people to consent, I think most people would agree that someone inviting you over late at night or agreeing to go to your place late at night at the very least has certain implications.

 

I had an encounter with someone I know the other night. I can't say I was getting a strong vibe most of the night, but when she suggested we leave the bar and continue drinking at her place, I had a feeling something might happen. But even then, I was unsure enough from her lack of signs once we were back that I should make a move. It got so far as to us calling it a night, me getting my shoes and coat back on before her hand lingering a second too long on my chest made me go in for the kiss.

 

Now, worst case is she would've pulled back and I would've had to apologize for misreading things. But that didn't happen, and it became clear pretty quickly that she had been waiting for me to make that move for a while. I can only imagine how disappointed she might have been if I'd left without making that move. And I know, I know, it doesn't seem fair that it's often left to the guy to make that first real move. But like I said, most women I've known just aren't likely to jump atop the guy. At least not until HE has made that first move.

[Chris2016]

Besides alcohol, any other means? weed, energy drink, caffeine, etc.

 

But a girl coming to your place at 12:30am could also likely rob you or open the door for her gigantic boyfriend. So best you not be impaired, or over do it.

 

How about getting experience with the decently looking somewhat attractive she-kind-of-does-something for you uggo? They won't teach you to get the hottie, but you'll get experience which I think goes a long way. And who knows, you may lower your standard. And there's no foul if she's "decently looking somewhat attractive she-kind-of-does-something for you", and it's reciprocated.

[frankspeci]

I had/have the same problem. I will get incredibly nervous about physical escalation with women and struggle to make a move. The worst part is the hours that follow. Ending a date with an attractive woman, failing to make a move, watching her go home and never want to talk to me again because I dropped the ball and made it awkward. Didn't read cues, didn't make the right move or make any move at all.

 

I feel HORRIBLE in the those moments, and it's unbearable. I hang my head in disgrace and never want to date again.

 

Fortunately the awful feeling subsides to an extent after a day or two. So shake it off. You'll be alright soon. And additionally many guys struggle with this. You are not the only one.

 

Here are things that have helped me:

 

1) Alcohol. Having a drink before a date loosens me up for sure. If it's a bar date, I'll have a glass of wine or a shot or cocktail at my place first. That way I'm feeling freer at the start of the date and it sets things off right. Don't overdo it though, or you'll get sloppy.

 

2) Just going to a bar beforehand helps. Even if I'm not drinking, going to a place where people are chatting beforehand loosens me up and gets me in a more open and social mode. I say hi to people and laugh and small talk. It gets me out of my head a bit.

 

3) Not trying to get it "right." Thinking I had to be smooth about making a move really messed with my head. I thought I had to have the perfect line that would naturally lead into an expected kiss. Women are good at the whole giggle at a joke and pat your shoulder stuff, making it seem natural. You don't need that. It's great, but in my experience its overrated.

 

I'll put my arm around her shoulder after a couple minutes sitting on the couch watching a movie. I'll rest my hand on her lower back if we're standing at a bar. I'll hold her hand for a couple seconds. I'll go in for the kiss when we're alone. My signal now is as long as she's not shying away I'm ok. Sure it's clumsy, for now, but it generally gets the job done, and the more I do it the better I'm getting at reading cues and becoming more graceful and smooth about it. Practice makes perfect.

 

So my advice, if you're overthinking the best time to make moves, is to just make a move. If the girl is into you she'll enjoy it, even if you don't nail it. A girl has told me she went on a date with a guy who was not doing any escalating. She thought she never wanted to see him again, but at the end he went for a kiss and she thought it was really great, so she reconsidered.

 

4) Stop thinking about her and start thinking about what you want. It sounds selfish but it's not. She said she was uncomfortable, and that's likely because she couldn't get a read on you. She couldnt get a read on you because you weren't in touch with yourself and expressing what you wanted. So if you don't want to make her uncomfortable, then get in touch with yourself and express yourself by making a move, if physical intimacy is what you're after. That will make her more comfortable. She now knows exactly where you stand and where your mind is. There is synchronicity between your mind and body. Be self centered for her benefit. Just make sure to note if she's backing away and let her.

 

5) Remember how bad not making a move feels compared to making a move and getting it wrong. For me the former is way worse.

 

There are many attractive girls out there. Keep the faith that you will find others.

Edited February 19, 2019 by frankspeci

[losangelena]

Besides alcohol, any other means? weed, energy drink, caffeine, etc.

 

But a girl coming to your place at 12:30am could also likely rob you or open the door for her gigantic boyfriend. So best you not be impaired, or over do it.

 

How about getting experience with the decently looking somewhat attractive she-kind-of-does-something for you uggo? They won't teach you to get the hottie, but you'll get experience which I think goes a long way. And who knows, you may lower your standard. And there's no foul if she's "decently looking somewhat attractive she-kind-of-does-something for you", and it's reciprocated.

 

I have to giggle a bit at how you’ve phrased this, but yes! I have probably filled this role a time or two for different men in my life, and I think there’s a lot of wisdom that can be passed from an experienced woman onto a relatively inexperienced man. You get your d*ck wet, and some experience, and maybe a good blow job out of the deal, not to mention a whack of confidence. I have a hard time seeing what’s bad about that.

[ZA Dater]

I have to giggle a bit at how you’ve phrased this, but yes! I have probably filled this role a time or two for different men in my life, and I think there’s a lot of wisdom that can be passed from an experienced woman onto a relatively inexperienced man. You get your d*ck wet, and some experience, and maybe a good blow job out of the deal, not to mention a whack of confidence. I have a hard time seeing what’s bad about that.

 

 

 

All of which for me needs some sort of attraction to them. How important is experience anyway, at my stage of life nobody is going to want me anyway based on no dating experience never mind any other forms of experience.

 

 

With dates like this Croatian, its about the experience of going out with someone attractive, that in itself is nice. How much I can get out of the experience is the second thing, if its just a dinner, meet up its ok, traditionally I rarely ever try for me because I don't have that confidence and they never seem to really like me that much.

 

 

Sure, I have a few times but get turned down each time and there is only so much awkwardness I can tolerate so its easier not to go there than be subjected to that again.

 

 

Case in point I took the yoga instructor home at 3.30am after a party, didn't make a move at all because I wasn't sure and didn't want to be rejected.

[ZA Dater]

Besides alcohol, any other means? weed, energy drink, caffeine, etc.

 

How about getting experience with the decently looking somewhat attractive she-kind-of-does-something for you uggo? They won't teach you to get the hottie, but you'll get experience which I think goes a long way. And who knows, you may lower your standard. And there's no foul if she's "decently looking somewhat attractive she-kind-of-does-something for you", and it's reciprocated.

 

 

She has to be someone I want, something like that doesn't really work because the attractive part is usually offset by something I find very unattractive. There needs to be a balance.

 

 

I think my entire problem is I don't know how to show interest, I think I am showing interest but they never seen to pick up on it.

 

 

In some respects I can complain about a lack of experience and some respects I cant because from time to time I have spent times (coffee etc.) with some stunning amazing ladies, none were interested in me that way but still was nice having conversation with them.

 

 

Unfortunately a lot about some of them I like very much, the interesting lifestyle some, two are international models and I enjoy that different perspective, I cant play in that world but being able to look in from time to time is for me at least a better idea than what you propose.