Graywulfx Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 I am deeply torn and in need of advice. Backstory: I (36M) have been dating my current girlfriend (38F) for a year. It's been smooth sailing the entire time and I strongly believe this could go the distance. However, the red flags have started piling up. Her backstory is something out of a soap opera, but I'll try to keep it brief. She was married young and cheated on her husband with a married coworker. His wife was also a coworker. Red flag number one. She dates the guy she cheated with for five years, the relationship turns toxic and she severs ties. Time passes, and despite commiting career suicide, she shoots up the ranks. Turns out she's dating her married, but allegedly separated boss. Red flag number two. That relationship sours, and she starts seeing other people. She still goes on business trips with her boss boyfriend, and he buys her a ring. She had a casual relationship with another high ranking coworker. Side story: I am in the same industry as these people and recently ran into this high ranking coworker. He is married with children and has been for the last ten years. She told me they dated, but the married part was omitted. Red flag number three. She and I start working together. I pay her little mind, she goes on a couple dates with a coworker and friend of mine. She says she didnt know it, but he had a girlfriend. Red flag number four. I start dating her a year later. She has been ridiculously transparent about things. I have confronted her about her morally questionable decisions and she is open and remorseful. She never shys away from talking about these issues. Should I hold her past against her? My heart says give her a chance, people change. My head says I'm a fool for ignoring an obvious trend. Help me out wise people of the internet.
I'veseenbetterlol Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Avoid her! If she cheated before, she won't have any qualms cheating w/you. She sounds like a total homewrecker as well. The married guys who cheat are equally as guilty, but she is willing to go along w/dating married men.
chillii Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Not only but she's also just a man lover . One of these woman that just can not stay away from men even when they're in a relationship. Always got the scanners on,scoping, flirting, looking, they know how to get men but she's also been around enough to hide that from you , well some do , some just can't. Sorry but l think no matter what her new leaf intentions seem to be now, 2,3,5yrs , but sooner or later , l don't believe she can change l've seen this stuff in 70yr olds. 1
Arieswoman Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 OP, You say that she is "open and remorseful". Yet she has been selective with the information she gives you She told me they dated, but the married part was omitted.This is called 'trickle truth' and cheaters do this a lot. Unless she has gotten into some therapy and has explored why she feels the need to date 'attached' men, then there is the danger of her repeating the pattern. Tell her of your concerns and ask her if she would be willing to do some work on herself. Good luck.
damni Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Surprised she is even interested in you considering you are a single man. I would have concerns about her loyalty. I would move on, she is not girlfriend material. 2
Gretchen12 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Isn't that just one red flag instead of 4? It's the same flag and that flag is still waving unabashedly. There is continuity why would you expect different going forward? Maybe 20 years later she stops being attractive to married coworkers and there's your change. Assuming she has not lied about this, actually she only cheated once, right? The other times the affair with the married man just ended as they always do. Do you distinguish between her cheating on her man and her being the mistress? Would you date someone who has cheated before? (Some would). Consistently being the mistress means not having her own family. So if you want a family, kids, stability, she's probably not the right one. You're at that age when you might want to settle down. 1
Redhead14 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) She's cheated numerous times. This is your Dirty Harry moment and she's the gun -- Do you feel lucky, punk? Do ya? "My heart says"???? Your brain is functioning and seeing all the flags. You need to start paying attention to your head and I don't mean the little one. Edited February 2, 2019 by Redhead14 1
Author Graywulfx Posted February 2, 2019 Author Posted February 2, 2019 Wow... I didn't look at it like that. These ARE trickle truths. I cheated on my husband (with a married man while working with his wife) I dated my boss. (Who was married with children) I went on a trip with a colleague (That was my boss who bought me an engagement ring) I had a casual relationship with a coworker (Who was married with two children) They allow for the "well I told you about that" defense without divulging the potentially damning details that make her look bad. 1
Author Graywulfx Posted February 2, 2019 Author Posted February 2, 2019 ...And I get the difference between cheating on a husband and being the other woman. In my book, if you are dating someone that you know is married. You are both *******s. Double ******* points if there are children involved. I'm going to ask a stupid question, simply because I need to reinforce what I already know. Do you think people can change? Shouldn't they learn from their mistakes and grow? Or is this behavior just in their nature and unchanging?
Redhead14 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 You will be the next casualty in her train wreck of a relationship history. This woman is in love with being in love and getting validation from men, especially married ones. Apart from all that, I'd say she also has an impulse control problem. "I have confronted her about her morally questionable decisions and she is open and remorseful." Being open about it all sounds to be more like an ego-trip than an attempt to be honest . . . As for remorseful, repentant, changed -- that won't be clear for years -- when she hasn't cheated on someone with a married man or in any established relationship over a long period of time. Do you really feel like being the test case???? 2
Rocker71 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Listen to what the posters on hear are telling you. I fell for a woman like this. She's always looking for a new guy to screw but still wants to keep that one guy attached. I didn't see it at first. I had to pay attention to her blaring red flags. This chick is 50ish and beautiful (with makeup). She went to lunch with her boss (at her house). Flirts with male customers (she's a retail cashier) and gets their number/adds on Facebook. She flirted with waiters, cashiers, guys around us, etc right in front of me. All in all, she's too friendly with guys she isn't in a relationship with. If you continue with this chick you will get your heart broke. Drop this mess and ghost her. But that requires you to think with your big head. 1
Redhead14 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) "Do you think people can change?" Yes, but they have to really want to and it takes along time to know if they have changed. "Shouldn't they learn from their mistakes and grow?" Yes, they should learn from their mistakes but this woman is really slow on the uptake, yes? This woman wasn't making mistakes. They were blatant, chronic, conscious choices based on an inner issue she needs to resolve for herself before she can be trusted to have a serious, committed relationship. And, yeah, one might forgive once, maybe even twice as "mistakes" but 5 or six times???? Paleeze. She likes what she does or she wouldn't keep doing it. She's getting "something" out of it. "learn from their mistakes and grow" -- this woman is learning impaired at best and at worst narcissistic, shallow and emotionally impaired. Nothing is growing with her except her odds of contracting a disease and/or being run down by a jealous wife. Edited February 2, 2019 by Redhead14 1
Lotsgoingon Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Sure, people can change ... but ... and this is a huge but ... People in your position are terrible about assuming the other person wants to change or has changed. Has SHE told you she has changed? What exactly changed? What was the problem earlier such that she got together with seemingly every male coworker? Evidence of change is when a person can convincingly--without prompting--make clear that they no longer want what they used to want, that they see the world in fundamentally different ways. You THINKING she has changed is not evidence of change. What has she said about all these flings?
smackie9 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 She suffers from low self worth, insecurity, and possible abandonment issues. There's an empowerment she gets when she dates taken men. To be able to pull men away from their wife/partner, makes her feel desired and very special. So when she doesn't receive the attention in her own marriage, she's feeling lonely, unwanted, an affair with a married man really does the trick to get that glorious feeling of having it all, especially from men that are in authoritative positions, with power. It's habitual behavior because the boost of dopamine she gets from it is very addictive. People tend to think people like her are like some evil monster, out of control with wanting to destroy marriages etc, when in reality that isn't why they do it. Yes they can feel remorse, but the desire, and that feeling of empowerment, they just can't help themselves. OP, she needs therapy to address her issues on this. She can't just simply say I'm sorry and it will never happen again. Like an alcoholic, she will fall off the wagon again if she doesn't seek help. You are not out of the honeymoon stage yet...but when you do, the possibility of it happening to you are pretty high. 2
FMW Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 smackie is right. There's a reason she has repeatedly been involved with married men, it's not just coincidence. Until she is aware of what it is she is seeking and receiving from these relationships she is a very bad emotional risk for you or for any man looking for a healthy relationship. 2
Normm Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 You've been with her a YEAR. Not understanding why you're asking this now. Either she's just telling you this (meaning she's intentionally kept it from you) or she's been telling you all along but for some reason now it's starting to sink in. If it's the latter I'm wondering what made the lightbulb come on. If it's the former, well the writing is on the wall. No way you will be the last guy she ever dates. Better chance of the Rams winning tomorrow. 1
preraph Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 People who don't flinch at dating married men and on top of that, ones they work with, are definitely not to be trusted. I mean, how can you trust her when she leaves for work? Someone can change and learn with age. But I'd want her to have a "clean record" for a few years before I gave her MY heart. 1
Vivir Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 Graywulfx, I want to sympathize with your girlfriend, because I have been the other woman. Her history doesn't come across well, and neither does mine. For me, it has been especially difficult reconciling that my past decisions will affect my future relationships. Even still, I talk A LOT about these decisions and how I came to be where I am today. Someone mentioned that she is using a trickle truth with you because she didn't mention that one of those four guys had a wife or girlfriend, but you stated that she is open to talking about the issues and comes across as remorseful. This is really why I want to sympathize with her... But... In talking with her, does it seem to you that she has done any deep self-reflection to determine WHY she became involved in these situations, these affairs? Does she claim to have done this work to become a healthier partner for the type of relationship you want? If so, does she discuss the process by which she became healthier? Does she discuss her boundaries with you? Does she seem self-aware? What is her stance on cheating? She was single during three of these, does she view being single and involved with a committed person cheating or aiding and abetting cheaters or does she think that is OK? In the year since you've been with her, have you gauged her integrity - especially where your relationship is concerned? Has she given you any other reasons to question her trustworthiness? Ask her about protecting herself, you, and your relationship from infidelity. Does she have a plan of action? (I guess that goes back to boundaries...) If I were you, I would openly discuss ALL of my concerns with her face-to-face and gauge her response. From your post, I understood that she just admitted to these involvements and that she feels remorse. But I think if she explains to you WHY she feels remorse you would better understand where she is today.
Author Graywulfx Posted February 3, 2019 Author Posted February 3, 2019 Redhead14, Vivir, and all of the others that took the time to weigh in, I really appreciate your insights. They have really been helpful. You are right. This woman is a bad investment. Once the haze of the honeymoon period subsides, there is a high probability that she will revert back to her previous behavior. One of the biggest mistakes a person can make is assuming that they are special. The chances that I am the special guy that breaks the cycle are painfully slim. I, like Vivir, want to sympathize with her. I've expressed the issues I have with her and she acknowledges the low self esteem issues, the poor decision making, and there root causes. I'm going to discuss all of my concerns, in depth, today. (Thanks again Vivir for the insightful questions. I'll put them to good use.) I feel that discussing this with her will either show me that she has made progress toward being able to have a healthy relationship or give us both the closure we need to move on. I get the feeling that some of you have been in my shoes and have had this conversation before. Is there anything I need to look out for?
chillii Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 lf she's just a man lover like l'm suspecting rather than any esteem stuff , go out to tea or a club or anywhere with people and casually watch her. lf she's scoping the men and crowd all the time then she just can't help herself. Watch her when guys are close to her too or walking past ,see what she does, acts, ya can spot this stuff a mile away. Sorry hate to put more negative onto it so good luck with some talking it's worth a shot.
Juha Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 All I have to ask after reading this thread is...WHY??? Why would you want to waste your time on this type of person? It is plain to see and out in the open she is damaged and messed up. Don't waste anymore time on this woman... I wish you the best 1
LonelyITGuy Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 Run for zee hills, dude. Really. Run. She WILL break your heart. 1
ShadeOfGreen Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 I'm going to discuss all of my concerns, in depth, today. How did your discussion go? I personally believe people can change their behavior. Part of that involves changing one's belief structure. This means knowing that certain things are wrong...realizing that there are negative consequences to themselves and others that far outweigh any positive thing they might experience. People are successful at this, but typically after experiencing a significant amount of pain for themselves. An alcoholic's painful tipping point can be losing their family,friends, and job after years of alcohol abuse. A cheater's inflection point can be waking up to an empty house after their betrayed spouse leaves for good with the kids. They come to terms that they have a problem. They realize those short lived dopamine hits are ruining themselves and causing trauma in the lives of others. Did she have any significant loss or painful moment with respect to these bad dating choices? Does she have a personal experience that can drive real change? Many of the people possibly affected by what she did are distant strangers (betrayed wife/kids). If she never had to have a difficult conversation with any of the guys' wives/girlfriends, then she's leaving scorched earth without hard consequences.
Highndry Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 This kind of woman is an FWB at best. And even then - wear protection at all times. 2
Orokotikki Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 I get the feeling that some of you have been in my shoes and have had this conversation before. Is there anything I need to look out for? Don't expect the truth, especially the whole truth. Run, don't walk away from this! 1
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