PRW Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 That's so funny. Got news for you. Most of us smart career women aren't stupid enough to just take whatever's left and be their mommy! You wish.So you missed the point,...and in doing so,...made my point.
PRW Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 But l do agree with the quality not quantity thing and said it myself to people chasing their tail 100 times. Beats the hell out of me why they even do this just date date date thing, seems like crazy shyt to me, Guys who grew up without the skills need to date, date, date for a while because they just literally need the practice. In fact their detriment is getting hung up on every girl the meet instead of being more chilled out about it. But once they get good at dating and it comes fairly easy to them,...then it is time to focus on quality rather than quantity. And hopefully at that point they can spot the quality when it is there.
PRW Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 BINGO!!! Have seen this happen a few times... I know a few marriages where the husband is a weakling and kisses his wife's butt all the time. It makes me sick to see how they act.Yea, but I doubt that is what she was really looking for when the met and got together,...she may have just given up, and "settled".
PRW Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Originally Posted by preraph That's so funny. Got news for you. Most of us smart career women aren't stupid enough to just take whatever's left and be their mommy! You wish. So you missed the point,...and in doing so,...made my point. I should elaborate and not leave that hanging. I assumed the comments: "That's so funny" "Got news for you" "You wish" ...were directed straight at me in a sarcastic non-positive way. If not, then I apologize,...but with taking a "beating" and putting up with stuff like that from women in these forums on a daily basis,... it has just become a reflex response. My point is not that women want these kind of guys,...it is that they get stuck with them because the better men that they would prefer won't accept these women, and over time, in frustration, the women accept the betas begrudgingly and try to make the best of it,...they "settle". Now, if you want to deny that, then go ahead, but I make it my business to watch this stuff fairly closely and am pretty attuned to trends and the "complaints" coming from women in general that substantiate what I am saying. I don't use this small forum that most of the world's population doesn't even know exists to base my conclusions on (no offense to the forum). Edited January 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote
Tamfana Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Dating in the last few years has brought me nothing but pain and grief. Actual grief. There were great moments. Some of which I’ll most likely cherish forever. But I think it’s time to close the book on dating. If I can’t be with someone then so be it. I ***** give up. I’m tapping out. I might even shed a few friends who aren’t contributing to my personal growth. I can’t find a single person who likes me for who I am and who I like for who they are. And it has to turn into a job to find someone? This isn’t what I imagined my life would be like 20 years ago. This is ****. I'm done too but I'm no longer upset about it. I fought it internally for a few years, that social conditioning that being single is bad or a personal failing looped around in my head making me feel bad. But that was self-inflicted pain. For me, a 50-something woman, much of the pain was due to a clash between that traditional social conditioning and who I am. Now, it makes sense to me that I'm single and will be for the rest of my life and I'm okay with the choice to quit dating and searching. Actually, it's liberating to reject the "you should be" expectations. The last man I dated (62 years old) views his attempts to find a wife as a search for something that doesn't exist any more (exact words). He can't explain what that "something" is but he's sad and increasingly angry that "it" doesn't exist or that he hasn't found "it." I wasn't "it" but I'll never know how or why because he can't explain it. I think he's feeling internal pressure from the social conditioning that he should have a wife or partner and that's why he can't define what he wants. He wouldn't be alone in that if that's what's causing him his pain.
PRW Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 The last man I dated (62 years old) views his attempts to find a wife as a search for something that doesn't exist any more (exact words). He can't explain what that "something" is but he's sad and increasingly angry that "it" doesn't exist or that he hasn't found "it." I wasn't "it" but I'll never know how or why because he can't explain it. I think he's feeling internal pressure from the social conditioning that he should have a wife or partner and that's why he can't define what he wants. He wouldn't be alone in that if that's what's causing him his pain.I empathize with him. I think I know what "it" is because I know myself pretty well (after a conscious effort to do so) and I know what I think would be a good fit. I do think "it" does exist, but "it" is so rare and widely dispersed that finding such would be similar to the odds of winning the lottery. Our current screwed up society just does not produce such people any longer and ones that already exist (and currently single) have been damaged and ruined by that same society. 1
PRW Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Like tends to pair up with like, so if a woman has spent time improving herself, she is then probably spending her time studying and at work with a better class of people, more educated, more interesting... If she is then coming home to the mundane, "boring" husband, he is no longer going to cut it for her.No doubt there is a lot of that, but the ones I am talking about are more of a Hypergamy situation. There was nothing wrong with the woman beforehand, she didn't have to self-improve. She was fine, they were both fine. There are other factors too, but it would get into stuff that has become politicized and I am just not on the mood for that.
some_username1 Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 I empathize with him. I think I know what "it" is because I know myself pretty well (after a conscious effort to do so) and I know what I think would be a good fit. I do think "it" does exist, but "it" is so rare and widely dispersed that finding such would be similar to the odds of winning the lottery. Our current screwed up society just does not produce such people any longer and ones that already exist (and currently single) have been damaged and ruined by that same society. Yeah I can really relate- it describes my outlook. It helps to know what you are looking for in the first place and it's only recently I've been able to figure it out...but now I know what 'it' is I realise that I just don't see it anywhere. It's very rare on dating sites. I now vacillate between thinking 'it'/she doesn't exist or that 'it'/she does but is married to someone else. I absolutely agree that our society does not produce what I am looking for. I don't think I'm compatible with the social media era and the kind of women it has produced in large numbers- i wish I could leave them to it and go back a decade or two in a time machine. Ah well, it is what it is I guess. Crying about it won't change anything. Gotta find other worthwhile things in life that provide fulfillment, which is a challenge that can keep a man busy in itself. 1
Tamfana Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 I empathize with him. I think I know what "it" is because I know myself pretty well (after a conscious effort to do so) and I know what I think would be a good fit. I do think "it" does exist, but "it" is so rare and widely dispersed that finding such would be similar to the odds of winning the lottery. Our current screwed up society just does not produce such people any longer and ones that already exist (and currently single) have been damaged and ruined by that same society. Yeah, that was one possible interpretation of his perspective I considered too. I just can't fathom a lifetime relationship with someone so pessimistic and negative about the world and about me, one who already exists in this society but doesn't consider herself ruined or damaged. But it's possible to embrace and enjoy singledom without criticism of others or without viewing the world as bad. Even if everyone out there to date was fabulous, being single can also be great. For instance, I bought a new old house last summer and am remodeling and renovating it and having a lot of fun doing it.
MeadowFlower Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 I'm done too but I'm no longer upset about it. I fought it internally for a few years, that social conditioning that being single is bad or a personal failing looped around in my head making me feel bad. But that was self-inflicted pain. For me, a 50-something woman, much of the pain was due to a clash between that traditional social conditioning and who I am. Now, it makes sense to me that I'm single and will be for the rest of my life and I'm okay with the choice to quit dating and searching. Actually, it's liberating to reject the "you should be" expectations. But for some people if not all, it is a natural thing to desire to be loved and accepted by a man (if you're a woman, or vice versa).
Tamfana Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) But for some people if not all, it is a natural thing to desire to be loved and accepted by a man (if you're a woman, or vice versa). Agreed. There are many things that most people have or desire and that some do not have and yet they're still happy. As the Buddha said, desire/craving is the cause of suffering. Edited to add: (In case I was sounding bossy face.). I'm not saying that people SHOULD BE happy without a partner. I'm just saying we can be. It took me a few years to decide to embrace it as a choice. It's hard to make that switch in perspective, especially at my age after decades of assumptions had accumulated within me. Edited January 23, 2019 by Tamfana
edgygirl Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 If I am honest, despite being in between jobs right now, I usually have fancy positions, and the combination of that and my personality makes the beta guys run after me, they love me! There's something about alpha guys not really liking women who are strong and opinionated. They like the sweet school teacher who cooks for them. No wonder I do see lots of powerful women settling for the betas. Well, at least they will take care of the kids when we're working our powerful jobs I understand the OP. Despite having many dating options, I am also getting tired of it all. Of going on dates, of dating someone for 1-2 months, of things seeming like they are working... and then never really working. But the thing is, does one give up, or does one simply take a long break? I have taken breaks and it's not like things felt better when I was back. On the other hand, is giving up any better? Why? My point is not that women want these kind of guys,...it is that they get stuck with them because the better men that they would prefer won't accept these women, and over time, in frustration, the women accept the betas begrudgingly and try to make the best of it,...they "settle".
chillii Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Guys who grew up without the skills need to date, date, date for a while because they just literally need the practice. In fact their detriment is getting hung up on every girl the meet instead of being more chilled out about it. But once they get good at dating and it comes fairly easy to them,...then it is time to focus on quality rather than quantity. And hopefully at that point they can spot the quality when it is there. l dunno , it'd help some for sure you can see they need it but everyone's different and if they're their own person they'll have their own ideas. Yeah always been about quality myself , mind you not to say l wasn't a happy boy back in the day turning up to a party or somewhere with wall to wall hotties . He's a classy lad her son though knew his way around the girls that wasn't a problem. Anyway, we're really happy for them. Edited January 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix spacing
chillii Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 But for some people if not all, it is a natural thing to desire to be loved and accepted by a man (if you're a woman, or vice versa). Yep of course it is, no nicer feeling. But the way they carry on in forums these days and dissect the hell out of it with labels and names for everything it's like such a natural thing is some kinda cardinal sin or mental problem.
SevenCity Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 There's something about alpha guys not really liking women who are strong and opinionated. They like the sweet school teacher who cooks for them. Agree 100%. Nothing gets me like a nice, submissive, giving woman, who doesn’t complain and is also cooking me dinner. As stated, they are unfortunately in short supply. Most of the (attractive) women I found online were the “strong” and “opinionated“ type you describe. There is no shortage of beta men but ultimately these women grow tired of them. Interestingly they often don’t know why and can’t put their finger on it. I have taken breaks and it's not like things felt better when I was back. On the other hand, is giving up any better? Why? You will be hard pressed to find an alpha guy if you exhibit the traits which repel them. A beta guy, on the other hand, will be drawn to masculine traits like a magnet. A large part of the problem with society is women were encouraged to be more masculine and men more feminine. It’s not working out so great.... 2
edgygirl Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 SevenCity - What I don't get is... don't intelligent alpha men need intellectual interchange and stimulation? I am sorry, but the 'nice, submissive, giving woman, who doesn’t complain and is also cooking me dinner' don't really provide that. I guess men think they can get that elsewhere then. I find that sad. I for one feel I need that within a relationship.
SevenCity Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 SevenCity - What I don't get is... don't intelligent alpha men need intellectual interchange and stimulation? I am sorry, but the 'nice, submissive, giving woman, who doesn’t complain and is also cooking me dinner' don't really provide that. I guess men think they can get that elsewhere then. I find that sad. I for one feel I need that within a relationship. Sure we do. But no where did I state these types of women are stupid. I don’t need to be challenged from my partner. Life has all sorts of challenges (intellectual and otherwise) to fill that need. Of course I appreciate learning from them, but I don’t need someone to debate me with the goal to prove me wrong. On the flip side, these is no saying a woman as you describe (strong, etc) can’t also make a man feel like he is a king. However, most cannot or don’t even try. They think challenge (what turns them on) is what turns an alpha guy on. It isn’t....not at home. I’ve seen this behavior from so many women since my ex and it is a turn off. Like being difficult for the sake of being difficult. They don’t last long with me. 2
edgygirl Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 I don't know SevenCity, the men I've been dating lately all seemed to want intellectual women being they were quite intellectual themselves. One of them even told me his last GF was apolitical and that bothered him so much that it was one of the reasons he ended up breaking up with her. I am not sure it's an universal thing that all alpha males want a submissive nice woman. On the other hand, I confirm the betas love me Okay - sorry I think we are derailing the original post so I'll stop with this topic now.
chillii Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 l wish you'd lose those ridiculous damn man labels edgy , matter of fact wtf is going on in the worldd with all this bs, And in the interest of equality , not being up with all the rubbish are there the same labels for the women too. And the generalizations , men are all different , personalities , tastes , l don't know any guy that wants a so called submissive woman but one thing you could say is just like many women have common things they do love, many men do love a warm, feminine and fun girl , and hell yeah , you bet we loved being looked after , and what woman doesn't like being treated nice and looked after . That's got nothing to do with submissiveness though . And l know plenty of guys into the very achieving type women or whatever we wanna call them, what makes you think they wouldn't be. Got 6 sisters like that and they've all got good men.
Gretchen12 Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 That is why so many high quality men stay away from professional career women,...they figure she won't stick around and she has the funds for a really good divorce lawyer,...and he has a lot to lose. Then the career women say "Where have all the good men gone?" I usually like your posts. But this doesn't sound right. Why is it wrong to be a professional career woman? Why can't women have careers? Why can't women be professionals? I wonder if in the cases you described the relationship failed partly because the man started to feel threatened by the woman's success. At the same time the woman begins to feel her partner does not accept her as a professional career woman.
PRW Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 I am not sure it's an universal thing that all alpha males want a submissive nice woman. On the other hand, I confirm the betas love me You gotta ditch the lables like alpha, beta, submissive, intellectual. It just comes down to masculinity & femininity and the sexual polarity it creates. That is where real attraction comes from,...that is the root. If the "Alpha Chick" can turn it off when she comes home and just "be a girl" she would go along way. And she needs to lay off the Hypergamy thing and realize we aren't living in mud huts with stone clubs and they she isn't going to run out of resources because the guy might make a few $1000 a year less than her.
PRW Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) I usually like your posts. But this doesn't sound right. Why is it wrong to be a professional career woman? Why can't women have careers? Why can't women be professionals? I wonder if in the cases you described the relationship failed partly because the man started to feel threatened by the woman's success. At the same time the woman begins to feel her partner does not accept her as a professional career woman.First, I appreciate the compliment... There is a lot to unpack there. Not sure I can cover it all of it. Now you may not agree with what I will say, and that's fine, but the fact that I am going to have to go in so many directions at once,...by itself,...tells you there is something to it. So, YES, they can be those things. The last woman I asked out managed a restaurant, another into realestate, some before that were nurses, one was a doctor. Now when a guy gets insulted by being accused of feeling "threatened" by a woman because he just wasn't attracted to her,...you just started a war, especially if he is a more masculine guy that doesn't consider himself someone to be threatened by much of anything. It is akin to calling him a "pussy". It just comes down to masculine vs feminine. If the sexual polarity isn't there then there is no attraction. When she comes home to her guy, or goes on a date if she doesn't already have a guy, then she just needs to leave work at work, leave "the boss" at work, and "be a girl". Men impress each other with their jobs, but they are not impressed with the woman's job/career for the most part. We (at least the good ones) aren't looking for someone to support us. But if we meet a professional woman that has the attitude, "I don't need no man!!!" then we will give her just what she says needs,..."No man". Most men have also had it up to their ears with the whole Hypergamy thing. Over 50% of college/university grads are women,...less then 50% are men. At that rate there are quickly becoming more "professional" women than there are "professional" men. There isn't going to be enough professional men left to feed the appetite of Hypergamy. Then there is the family,...actually the lack of. Women suddenly in their 30's want to have kids after they burnt through their best years with education and climbing the corporate ladder. The "good men" by then have already married women in their 20's while they themselves were in their 20's and have have kids in school by their 30's. The guys left over (sorry for this one guys, but it's true) in their 30's are either the undesirables who couldn't manage to get married or they did and blew it and she divorced him. In any case they don't want more kids because they can't afford the child support on the ones they are paying for. So as for the women's careers, sorry but it isn't the Golden Ring you've been reaching for. You sacrifice your best chance at family possibilities for the almighty dollar and either have to marry the job, or be a childless Power Couple with some guy on his 2nd or 3rd marriage with a big child support bill. And yes,...like it or not,...for better or worse,...all these things are rolling around in a guys head as soon as he meets a professional woman before he can remember her name. Careers can be a form of "baggage". Edited January 24, 2019 by PRW 1
Tamfana Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 First, I appreciate the compliment... There is a lot to unpack there. Not sure I can cover it all of it. Now you may not agree with what I will say, and that's fine, but the fact that I am going to have to go in so many directions at once,...by itself,...tells you there is something to it. So, YES, they can be those things. The last woman I asked out managed a restaurant, another into realestate, some before that were nurses, one was a doctor. Now when a guy gets insulted by being accused of feeling "threatened" by a woman because he just wasn't attracted to her,...you just started a war, <snip> A war? Oh for heavens sake.... And I sure didn't read it as an "accusation."
PRW Posted January 24, 2019 Posted January 24, 2019 A war? Oh for heavens sake.... And I sure didn't read it as an "accusation."It doesn't matter how you read it. If you want to understand men then put some effort into doing do. If you want men to take the things you feel seriously, then do the same for them.
edgygirl Posted January 25, 2019 Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Sadly the labels exist for a reason. I didn't invent them. There are basically two types of men and I am zero interested in the second: #1 intellectual (into ideas, politics, history, science, innovation, philosophy and whatnot brainiac abstract pursuits, bonding time is... discussing passions/theories/ideas); #2 non intellectual (into concrete things, sports, cars, mostly concrete things I don't really care about, bonding time is... skating together. meh). That's not to say some intellectual men are not into sports (some are) but I hope you get my point. I am generalizing a bit, it's much more complex than the above, but... Don't believe me? Study Myers Briggs, Intuitive vs. Sensors. My view is I should not date Sensors. I've tried, doesn't work More here: https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/sensing-or-intuition.htm?bhcp=1 Edited January 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix spacing
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