hobbs Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Hey all -- could really use some advice here. I've been seeing this woman for 2 months now. She's absolutely great. We get along so well, the emotional/physical connection is there. I've already met a bunch of her friends, she's met mine. I see her more than 3 times a week. Everything is going really great. EXCEPT -- she has a big fear of intimacy. She doesn't hold hands, she's very reserved about telling me how she feels about me. I'm quite the opposite, i'm very open with my feelings, always telling me how much I miss her, and i'm thinking about her. She runs really hot and cold. Some days she'll text me like crazy and tell me she misses me. Other days I get one word texts back. And she almost seems cold when I say these things. When I call her out she says she really does feel these things about me, she just has a really hard time expressing them. She told me she had a really tough upbringing. Both parents died at a young age, and when they were alive they never told her they loved her, or anything like that. I'm absolutely over the moon for this woman, and I know she feels the same about me -- but am I wrong to think that she'll eventually feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable and emotionally open with me? Or is this just something I'm going to have to get used to in the relationship?
Mr. Lucky Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 but am I wrong to think that she'll eventually feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable and emotionally open with me? Or is this just something I'm going to have to get used to in the relationship? No idea what the future holds for the two of you, but I will say this - I came out of my first marriage thinking relationships were like UFC fights - very few rules and you had to keep fighting until the other person taps out. So when I got involved with my (now) wife, to whom I've been happily married for 30+ years, it took some exposure to her gentle insistence that there was a better way for me to unlearn some negative behaviors. Simply put, it took some time. In light of that, I'd simply advise perseverance and consistency. If you do think she's worth it and are willing to put in the effort, I'd guess she'll come around. Has she ever sought therapy for her FOO issues? Mr. Lucky
basil67 Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Hobbs, dating is about finding Mr/Ms Right. It's not about learning to suck it up so you can stay with the wrong choice. While I'm sure she's a lovely woman, you're only two months in and seeing giant red flags. These aren't small issues and will drive you away in time. Mr Lucky has a point that she can change, but I think at the very least, you would be wise to give her a clear picture of what you want from a relationship. Let her tell you whether or not she's willing to work towards change. If she says "this is who I am" rather than "that sounds good, will you support me?", then you'd be best to leave. Edited January 22, 2019 by basil67
chillii Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Yeah , lots of very wise words and experience in what mr Lucky's talked about. But yeah at the same time bas has some big points too l mean your just not sure with a person like that , will it ever end.? Because patients and the left wanting can only go so far. And your not really seeing her enough yet or long enough either to see where she's gonna end up. l'd be a bit wary though because head issues usually run very deep and when you start seeing more of each other could be a lot more surprises yet, not necessarily, but just sayin. But anyway , you can keep at it give it 6mths and just see how things go. Good luck
manfrombelow2 Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) It doesn't matter the reason why (or how) she hasn't been able to physically hold your hands. What matters is the fact that it has been two freaking months and you still haven't managed to physically hold her hands. Two months are enough for a lot of sex to happen, let alone "holding hands." There are certain lanmarks during the courtship that the man has to overcome, otherwise the woman will gradually lose interest and eventually dumps the guy, for example "the first date" -> "the first kiss" -> "the first touching" -> "the first sex". I'm not surprised if OP is going to get dumped / ghosted / friendzoned very soon. Afterall, nobody is fear of intimacy, they just don't like you enough (or you were too "weak") to be intimate with you. Edited January 22, 2019 by thaygiaogiang
salparadise Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) She told me she had a really tough upbringing. Both parents died at a young age, and when they were alive they never told her they loved her, or anything like that. I'm absolutely over the moon for this woman, and I know she feels the same about me -- but am I wrong to think that she'll eventually feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable and emotionally open with me? Or is this just something I'm going to have to get used to in the relationship? Hobbs, dating is about finding Mr/Ms Right. It's not about learning to suck it up so you can stay with the wrong choice. While I'm sure she's a lovely woman, you're only two months in and seeing giant red flags. These aren't small issues and will drive you away in time. I could've predicted the tough childhood even if you had not mentioned it. This is a developmental issue, and as such it runs really deep. There are two aspects... a) her emotional development was probably limited due to both not receiving unconditional parental affection, and abandonment when they died early, and b) a defensive mechanism wherein she holds people at arms length to keep anyone from getting close enough to hurt her. The tolerance of vulnerability necessary to truly open one's heart is a foreign and scary concept to her. She craves it of course, but she can't do it due to fear, insecurity, and feelings of unworthiness. At the core she doesn't believe she's inherently lovable, so she attempts to attach (and receive the affirmation that she missed as a child) while not revealing the person she believes is flawed and unlovable for fear of abandonment. So the superficial aspects are likely to be over the top at times as she attempts to secure attachment, but opening up to real intimacy is way too scary. This is a sad but all too familiar pattern. She needs to be in therapy to work on her tolerance for vulnerability and learn how to give and receive affection without triggering the deep insecurities. It's possible she could make incremental improvements over time. But what you need to know is that it's not going to change fundamentally because it's too deeply ingrained. The window for that phase of development closed years ago. Therefore, the question you have to ask yourself is, are you willing to dedicate your life to trying to manage these issues, and to forego the reciprocation of real intimacy? Are you secure enough in your own worthiness that you won't settle for less, or are you willing to make a one-way deal for acceptance? She's in acquisition mode right now (giving what she perceives you need to secure attachment). What you're seeing is the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately. Red flags at 2 months... forewarned is forewarned. Edited January 22, 2019 by salparadise 2
Simple Logic Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 What are your ages and have you kissed her?
d0nnivain Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 You have been together for 60 days. She grew up without parents & had no one to say I love you & to reassure her. She had little to no emotional support. She had to be tough & independent. Now you think because you showed up in her life that she can flip some switch & be open & trusting after knowing you 2 whole months. Get real. This woman is going to need you to be there, to show up, to prove yourself trustworthy for at least a year before she can even fathom beginning to rely on you. Slow down Readjust your expectations. Let time & your continuous actions slowly melt the ice wall around her heart. She will eventually let you in but not on this rocket express time line.
Author hobbs Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 It doesn't matter the reason why (or how) she hasn't been able to physically hold your hands. There are certain lanmarks during the courtship that the man has to overcome, otherwise the woman will gradually lose interest and eventually dumps the guy, for example "the first date" -> "the first kiss" -> "the first touching" -> "the first sex". Oh we've had sex, kissed, many many many times haha. She's very cuddly in bed, it's just the hand holding thing that seems to be an issue. Like an ingrained trust issue. both in our mid 30's.
Tamfana Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 I'm absolutely over the moon for this woman, and I know she feels the same about me -- On what are you basing the conclusion that she feels the same way about you that you do about her? Words? Actions? I've dated people, men, who aren't expressive about their feelings about me and I've always concluded that they just weren't wild about me.
d0nnivain Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Oh we've had sex, kissed, many many many times haha. She's very cuddly in bed, it's just the hand holding thing that seems to be an issue. Like an ingrained trust issue. both in our mid 30's. Look if she can have sex, she's just not big on PDA. If you like handholding, tell her that. Then ask if you can hold her hand, explaining that you would be proud to subtly show off to the world that you are together. Don't expect it always but gradually get her used to it. My husband wasn't a big hand holder when we met. I like hand holding so we worked on it. Little bits at a time. Now it's odd for us to walk anywhere not holding hands. Neither one of us are big into PDA but an occasional public peck on the lips is common. Again it's a gradual trust thing. Let her get there in her own time. 1
Author hobbs Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 On what are you basing the conclusion that she feels the same way about you that you do about her? Words? Actions? I've dated people, men, who aren't expressive about their feelings about me and I've always concluded that they just weren't wild about me. Basing it on both words and actions. She's hot and cold. When she's hot she'll tell me how much she's into me, how much she cares, how she can't stop thinking about me. She's more open verbally over the phone -- like she doesn't want to give away too much in person.
Author hobbs Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 She's also open about why it's hard for her to express how she truly feels. She's not hiding behind anything. She's showing me her hand. It's just a little difficult because I've never dated anyone so guarded. But I have real feelings for her, and she makes me happy. Going to give it time. 1
chillii Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 She doesn't sound too bad from all that then, pretty mild compared to how that sort of thing can be. With how you feel and by the sounds she really feels too yeah , more time and trust as you go slowly but surely should make all the difference. Good luck.
Redhead14 Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 She's also open about why it's hard for her to express how she truly feels. She's not hiding behind anything. She's showing me her hand. It's just a little difficult because I've never dated anyone so guarded. But I have real feelings for her, and she makes me happy. Going to give it time. I'm struggling to understand how you could be in love with a woman who doesn't meet your emotional needs. I think, at this point, you are more in love with who you wish and hope she will be more than who she is showing you she is at the moment at least. "I know she feels the same about me" - How do you know that? If she's so unemotional, you can't sense it from her. If you're going by what she says, that's gonna start to feel kinda empty pretty soon. "she makes me happy" - It's only been 2 months and you're more or less tolerating the fact that she's closed off and guarded and foregoing somethings that seem important to you. How long can you go on like this? How much time will you "give" her to change into what you need/want from her? You could find yourself in this same boat 10 years from now. She tells you she's the way she is since she was a child and she's in her 30s now. I don't think she's going to come out of her cocoon soon that's for sure. All I'm saying is if you're going to give it "time", make a mental timeline for yourself -- another month or two maybe and then re-evaluate. Don't string yourself along for months and months. That could turn into years and years . . . I don't recommend dating a person with the idea/goal that they need to change in some significant way in order for you to be happy.
BaileyB Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 I think the most important question is, does she see this as a problem that is affecting/will continue to affect her future relationships and is she willing to do something to change her behavior? Also wondering if she has had any counselling to deal with the trauma from her childhood and the lingering effects that she continues to carry with her now...
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