Dating a combat veteran, strangest behavior.

[flubberghaster]

I met a veteran while traveling two months ago. He's young (28), and decorated, with 4 tours under his belt in a high-level position. We got along great, however live 600klm away from one another.

 

First date went very well, we had sex in his truck (my initiation), but I did not stay over the night, and we went out for breakfast in the morning. He called every day without fail, sometimes talking for hours, between then and me booking flights to spend a few days with him last week. He wanted to talk more than have sex and absolutely gave me a "vibe" - something like a rehabbed pitbull, you don't really know when he'll bite y'know? He would have days of lucidity and vulnerability, days where he seemed very intent on exclusivity, and kept joking about how my sex drive was too high & perhaps he should consider waiting until marriage. I told him sometimes he feels like he's friendzoning me.

 

He asked me to come see him to help with his horses, and I just got home from staying with him for two nights. This actually gave me a chance to figure out what on earth was wrong with him because at this point, I thought there must be a catch with him - on paper, he looked like a great match although rigid. However, this man is stiff as a board. He doesn't touch. He doesn't kiss. But he sure as heck wants to talk. His housemate almost seems afraid of him, bending to his every whim. He's very particular and structured. The people we met all seem to have the same reaction to him, no matter how polite he is to them. On one of the days, I watched him grab a rifle from the rack, shoot at his housemates dog who was chasing one of the horses, and tell the housemate the next time the dog does it, he's dead. He doesn't screw around with anything.

 

We spent all day together the first day and he was interested and engaged in me all day, we met quite a few friends of his along the way, and by 11:30pm we go to bed. He lays down like he's in a coffin and I can feel he doesn't want to be cuddled or touched. He asks if I could rub his back, and I do, which initiates rough sex - again, he doesn't kiss me, and he falls asleep without touching me. Stiff as a board. At one point in the night, I reached out and touched his hip, and he quick as flash snatched it away. I tried to initiate sex again in the morning and he moved my hand away.

 

I swallowed my pride. The next day was fantastic, and he asked me to extend my stay another two days. He had me ride his good horse, and I felt like maybe that night would be better. Again, interested in me all day, sweet all day, but no physical contact. I make myself as useful as I can all day, and made them both breakfast, dinner & did his laundry - they live in the middle of no where, and I figured it would be useful. He was very grateful. It gets to 1am and he's still laying on the lounge watching TV, and asks if I want to go to bed. I get up and he says he'll be right there.

 

Half an hour later he's still not in. I get up, sit down and ask if he's okay. He doesn't look at me, says yes, he's sorry, and will come to bed soon. Basic conversation:

 

me - "If you want, I can get a hotel. I'm sorry this didn't work out the way you wanted it to."

him - (turns around) - "no, (name). Its not like that. Today was perfect. I like you a lot."

me - "I don't really understand what you want. You don't seem to want affection, or sex."

him - "I just don't have much of a sex drive. And I am worried I'm going to hit you in my sleep."

 

he then turns back to the late-night news about Syria, and says "I think I'll go deploy again for 12 months if this gets worse."

 

I just go to bed, feeling pretty damn rejected.

When its time to leave, reflecting the first time we said goodbye, he gives me hug and says he will come north for a bit to come see me before calving starts.

 

I'm lost. I know the war affected him badly, but this guy has my head spinning.

He doesn't seem to want me for just sex, he doesn't seem to want me as just a friend, and he's not physically affectionate enough for a relationship. I really like him, but I can't understand him at all.

Edited January 20, 2019 by flubberghaster

[allansilver]

PTSD. 10char

[preraph]

I only got As far as him shooting at the dog for chasing horses. To me that would be a huge deal breaker. And I used to own horses. I did not have military in my family but I grew up right on the line of a military base so I was on base some and some of my little girlfriend's fathers were military. Of course that was a long time ago so times have changed, but I will say that their households seemed extremely rigid and were run by the military man. So rigidity is not really uncommon for military people. They have a huge amount of training to make them disciplined.

 

But you got to have a mean streak to shoot at a dog. There's too many other alternatives. He's got a mean streak.

[Curiousroxy86]

I met a veteran while traveling two months ago. He's young (28), and decorated, with 4 tours under his belt in a high-level position. We got along great, however live 600klm away from one another.

 

<SNIP>

 

I know you like the guy and I know you may want to figure this guy out but drop him. He probably does have some sort of diagnosis like ptsd or something we don't know but if he is afraid he might hit you in his sleep believe him. You want closeness and intimacy and affection and this guy just can't give it to you. It's unfortunate when you like a guy more than the other schmucks out there you been meeting on the dating scene and he likes you and everything is right except for the one thing or few things but if that one thing or few things are deal breakers you must let him go.

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[flubberghaster]

PTSD is my first thought too, but coming from a country where its not huge on its military, this is my first foray. I was going to send him this if he asks, but its lengthy and I'm tired from pushing for some affection. Probably not worth ever sending him, but it did help me work out my feelings while on the plane home. I guess this just elaborates some of the above. I haven't reached out since I got home.

 

I don't mind a man with a mean streak + control (daddy issues, much), and when you've got horses valued 60k+, I can understand. He'd been told before. But its no doubt a red flag.

 

--

 

To be honest, I drove back with mixed feelings. I like you a lot (name) & I would like this to work, I’m just trying to work out how much of it is you/what you need to be comfortable vs your reactions to me in particular.

 

Firstly I need you to know that I absolutely do not think you’re damaged or wrong. *None* of this stuff means weakness, failure, or emasculation and I’m not having a go at you, asking you to change anything or saying any of it is “wrong” - these are nothing but observations based on feel coming from someone who has not experienced anything close to the magnitude, grit & sadness you have. I do not believe they are gospel & I am more than happy to be corrected. They all come from a place of absolute respect for who you are as a man, and the things you’ve done in the name of a greater good.

 

I suspect you have a lot going on inside your head all the time & despite the bravado/false ego you put on, you don’t want anyone else to see that “baggage”. You carry so much tension despite your relaxed, controlled “epitome of a soldier” persona. I also figured you spent years sleeping alone and anyone touching you puts you in instant defence mode. You likely slept side by side with other trained men and felt safe in a group - a woman might make you feel responsible and make it hard to sleep. I sleepily put my hand on your side and you quick as a fox snatched it away by the wrist. I don’t know if you know it either but you have (externally mild) night terrors throughout the night, however I think most of your stresses come from hyper vigilence + regiment rather than flashbacks or nightmares which is probably why you won’t publicly/openly relate to others who talk about ptsd. I did really try to be very respectful of your space & limits however I get the impression you struggle to close your eyes voluntarily.

 

I feel like you get numb and irritable if someone wants to be intimately close to you emotionally or physically. Even if you know they have good/kind intentions. I deeply wanted to comfort you - be affectionate towards you - put my hand on your thigh or your hand, but could tell it would not have been welcome.

 

Affection is probably pretty foreign to you - you spent long periods of extended absence from comfort, security, family, and breaks. I imagine you boys were harsh with each other and didn’t often act with kindness and gentleness with one another. You come home with all that stress and are suspicious, tightly wound, and easily angered. I can see why you’re indecisive about sudden choices - in your mind, one wrong decision means death. I understand why you don’t like going out much, being home, walking down the street, going shopping must be very out of you comfort zone & feel unnecessary compared. It must be a strange place to be - no matter how much war affected you badly, you want to go back. You probably felt very alive there and miss that part of your life, and the trauma of combat is likely interwoven with other, positive experiences you had.

 

If you’re hurting please know I will drop everything to listen - it doesn’t diminish your accolades, you won’t meet any judgment here, and it doesn’t label you as anything different.

 

I don’t know what your past relationship history looks like but you do seem particularly worried about bonding with someone & then having them **** you over or leave. You have probably lost people you cared about over and over again, I don’t blame you. I think you find the horses & the animals comforting but people stressful, unpredictable and “work”. I think that’s partially why you don’t want to live alone completely alone - a conflicting desire for being isolated while also needing to know that someone who cares about you is present. I think it goes something along the lines of “I want you near me but I don’t want/can’t have you close to me right now.” Compounding all of this, you went through some awful things when you were just a kid and came home without family or a spouse to greet you, after the social support of wartime camaraderie - probably felt like being dropped into ice cold water. It’s probably much harder to find that kind of closeness and tribe outside of service. Not only this but I imagine you’re dealing with physical pain management on a day to day basis that you don’t let on about. No wonder sleep is tricky, it’s when you stop distracting yourself and are left quiet with your thoughts.

 

You also don’t owe me anything but it was kind of a dick move opening tinder when I was sitting there wondering why you wouldn’t touch me at all & what I did wrong. That really hurt.

 

Long story short I’m asking you to be calm, clear & honest with me in your own time; I’m doing my darndest to be patient and understanding, take you at your word and not take any of the above that was hard for me to understand personally - I am really starting to care about you, + genuinely want to know you in a way that improves your day to day, as well as learn how to help. I had a really good time with you and appreciate everything you did for me. None of this reflects badly on you, I can see that you’re a warrior to the very bone - a breed that I love: strong, honorable men, molded by their experiences. You have earned every ounce of my respect & every scar you carry on your body, heart and soul.

 

I’m also very proud & impressed with everything you have achieved in your life. I truly believe you’re a very good, very kind man - I hope you’ll trust me enough to let me help you remember that.

[allansilver]

You've written your letter. Now drop him. He knows he has PTSD, and based on his behavior he's in no rush to get it treated.

 

Safety is priority 1.

[Curiousroxy86]

<SNIP>

 

You also don’t owe me anything but it was kind of a dick move opening tinder when I was sitting there wondering why you wouldn’t touch me at all & what I did wrong. That really hurt.

<SNIP>

 

WTF? opening tinder in front of you??? I must have missed that one! Nah girl drop him! I wouldn't even send that if I were you

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed the entire post that was over quoted

[flubberghaster]

WTF? opening tinder in front of you??? I must have missed that one! Nah girl drop him! I wouldn't even send that if I were you

 

I caught a glance. He wasn't on his phone much at all, maybe twice the whole time I was there. However the one time I looked over...

[Lotsgoingon]

To be blunt, it's not your job as a potential romantic partner to understand him. Your is to evaluate--and yes ruthlessly, selfishly so--if this is good possible partner for you. Someone who can give and receive love. Someone you like right now--as is!

 

Your job is not to diagnose him or engage in a fantasy that your understanding will heal him or make the relationship work.

 

To back up a step, sure this sounds like PTSD. But here's the thing: people are more than their trauma. You don't know if he was like this BEFORE war. One of the factors in PTSD in war ... is having suffered trauma and emotional instability and neglect before war. Some young people think the structure of the military will help them overcome their trauma ... Well ... maybe in a military that isn't in active war. But multiple tours in fighting guerrilla warfare on the streets ... where anybody can be a threat ... is the worst possible thing for a soldier.

 

You have already observed some serious tension and danger with him shooting at his housemate's dog ... and with the fear you have noticed in those around him. Ding, ding! ... Danger bell! ... Ding, ding! ... And I couldn't quite tell from your writing--does he have rough with you without even touching you beyond what is absolutely necessary for sex? (Almost sounds like borderline rape.)

 

Ding, ding. Danger. Danger.

 

It's his job to get treatment. He has got to WANT treatment. His saying he wants to go back to war in Syria--ding, ding, ding, danger! ... He's not trying to change ... Apparently the thing that wounded him is exactly what he's drawn to.

 

I would not send a letter like this ... Frankly, I think it's dangerous to try to get into his head and psyche.

 

There is nothing to be confused by. The guy has serious emotional wounds and can't be a good romantic partner. Period. If in 20 years he heals and wants to contact you ... let him wait til then! We evaluate people as they are right now.

 

Learn and move on.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Lotsgoingon

[PRW]

I have the feeling no one here has a clue about someone who's been the military. His job in the military is to kill the enemy with either weapons or his bare hands if he has to. He doesn't have PTSD. Men in his position live in a state of High Alert in order to stay alive. They don't have the luxury of being attacked in the middle of the night,...wake up, ask questions, and wring their hands over "What do I do?!?" No, they snap up, react, and eliminate the threat,...in a flash. That is why he is worried about hurting her in the bed,...if she does something that startles him he would react first and think later. That is not PTSD,...that is called military training and every bit of it is on purpose and intentional.

 

Horses and other livestock are expensive, horses and livestock can be injured being chased by a dog. Dogs are cheap. If the dog puts the horses at risk, you remove the threat,...period. Dogs cannot be allowed to be undisciplined on a farm and put the other animals at risk.

 

Now back to the main story, everything I see about the events shows there was way too much allowed to happen way too fast and you are trying to act like a married couple before you can even spell each others last name properly. He has been trained for discipline and he is having an emotional push-back from the way things were handled. Which is EXACTLY what this means....

and kept joking about how my sex drive was too high & perhaps he should consider waiting until marriage.

That was NOT a joke. He just spent years living in a desert with mostly men. HE is not exactly getting laid every weekend. So he come home,...he gets "laid" a couple times and gets that "out of his system" abd with thout now out of the way he is thinking about a more disciplined lifestyle and how he would really like things to be.

 

He has been living his entire adult life after high school under a disciplined military lifestyle surrounded by people who are disciplined, loyal, have each other's back, know what they are doing, why they are doing it, and don't complain about their "hardships". But then he has to come home to this screwed up society where far too many people are back stabbing self-centered whiners just waiting to be offended at something.

Edited January 20, 2019 by PRW

[flubberghaster]

<snip>

Now back to the main story, everything I see about the events shows there was way too much allowed to happen way too fast and you are trying to act like a married couple before you can even spell each others last name properly. He has been trained for discipline and he is having an emotional push-back from the way things were handled. Which is EXACTLY what this means....That was NOT a joke.<snip>.

 

I really appreciate this (and I'm reading every response.) I like (and deeply respect) this man a lot. He's kind to me and hasn't done anything I haven't consented to. And I am trying to put in the early effort to show understanding and scope for what he is & what he's done in his life without treading on toes.

 

I appreciate a military insight.

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[PRW]

Thanks. I have not personally been in the service, I didn't get past the physical exam due to issues with my lower legs and feet. But 4 of my close family members were in various branches and one was in for 21 years and spend the last two years at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba dealing with the terrorist that your guy may have helped capture and sent to them.

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact quote of immediately preceding post

[flubberghaster]

I'm very sorry to hear that. This is all so new to me, he's the first veteran I've met and I'm taking the time to learn.

 

I think you're absolutely right about the sex. In the rare times we've texted vs called and he was willing to talk, he said verbatim after the first date:

 

"I feel like an ass for having sex in my truck as it is. And I really don't want to do it again until we got to know each other. I truly feel like sex is very hollow without love and if thats what you want, its easy to find. I had you leave in the morning because I didn't feel it was the right thing to do letting you stay knowing it would happen again."

 

But then why would he have instigated it the first night, and gone cold as heck the following night sleeping on the couch? He didn't hurt me at all when I slept next to him (aside from emotionally haha). Its also gutting me I haven't heard from him since, despite knowing he's got a tight schedule this weekend.

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact quote of immediately preceding post

[PRW]

"I feel like an ass for having sex in my truck as it is. And I really don't want to do it again until we got to know each other. I truly feel like sex is very hollow without love and if thats what you want, its easy to find. I had you leave in the morning because I didn't feel it was the right thing to do letting you stay knowing it would happen again."

That makes perfect sense to me, and is exactly what I was trying to say.

 

But then why would he have instigated it the first night, and gone cold as heck the following night sleeping on the couch?

Spend 4 military tours in a middle eastern dessert,..."not getting any" (or very little) that whole time. Come home and meet someone that is so up for they will do it right there in the front seat, how is a guy in that circumstance going to say no very easily? But then you feel like crap after,...just like he said. There is nothing mysterious about this at all to me.

[Lotsgoingon]

PRW, I beg to differ. You're describing a state of hyper-vigilance. That is not the normal state for American members of the military. Hyper-vigilance is a danger for SOME soldiers who serve in brutal, 360-degree, street-to-street, house-to-house guerrilla warfare.

 

You can go a career in the world's most powerful militaries and not once take a shot a someone, let alone kill someone. American soldiers for example ... train, conduct exercises, serve as protective forces in Europe and in South Korea and around the world without once firing a weapon at an enemy.

 

In traditional wars, soldiers don't have to be hyper-vigilant because there is a front ... an enemy on the other side ... fortifications ... killing is done long-range with artillery and tanks and bombs ... Hyper-vigilance is a product on going to a foreign land, with fighters who hide themselves within the general population.

 

A generation of soldiers like my father and his friends came home from WW2 and had zero hyper-vigilance issues, and he saw all kinds of destruction. We're talking WW@, the most bloody, violent conflict in the history of the world ... and soldiers didn't come home acting like this guy.

 

This guy's behavior in no way describes the behavior of a typical soldier. No way shape or form.

 

And military discipline and the chain of command ... has no connection at all to trauma and shooting dogs and walking around not being able to relax in the arms of a woman. The vast majority of the most rigid people I know ... haven't come close to a battlefield.

[flubberghaster]

This guy is a sniper. He's killed quite a few people.

[d0nnivain]

I'm married to a combat vet. They trained to turn their emotions off. They had to suppress a lot of their humanity to do their jobs. Good order & discipline are not just slogans. They are a way of life. After 4 tours, the freedom of the civilian world may be too loosy-goosey for him.

 

Personally I could never get past him shooting at the dog.

 

Don't send the letter. If asked give some vague answer or blame it on him being on Tinder. But be done with him. He's too broken for you to fix. Snipers are even worse. Leave him to deal with his own demons. Pray for him if you like but do not try to date him.

[ExpatInItaly]

This man has issues you cannot resolve, OP.

 

This is not typical behaviour of a combat vet upon return back into civilian society, OP, despite what someone on this thread is trying to tell you. The explosiveness (coupled with the dangerous behaviour you have already seen) he is struggling with is something that makes him a poor candidate for a relationship at this point in his life.

 

He knows this and is trying to keep you away from him, so it doesn't turn on you. Read between the lines here. Him being on Tinder while you were there is further evidence of that. He's not looking to seriously date you. You're fun, for now, but he's sending a clear message that he is nowhere near ready for anything more than that.

 

Don't send the letter. I doubt he is going to appreciate you telling him what he must be thinking and feeling, and assuming you have any clue what's going through his mind or how hard life must be for him. I cringed reading that, to be honest; too Dr. Phil and not your place. Do a better job of heeding the red flags and seeing yourself out, though. And try to get to the bottom of why you are trying to rationalize those red flags, too. Being "okay" with controlling man with a mean streak is something you need to work on.

Edited January 20, 2019 by ExpatInItaly

[Mrs._December]

I caught a glance. He wasn't on his phone much at all, maybe twice the whole time I was there. However the one time I looked over...

Are you REALLY that interested in taking on a fixer-upper? Relationships are hard enough with normal people (lol...that's subjective, I know) but they're a lot harder with guys like this.

[flubberghaster]

He called me last night and I sent the damed thing around 1am.

 

Guess we'll see if and when he gets back.

Not quite sure why I'm fond of him with very staggered affectionate moments, I think this is what the Redpill Community refer to as the "captain save-a-ho" mentality.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, I noticed in your other threads that you were involved with a married man for a while and deeply emotionally attached to him. (Based on your description of events) You sent him a long, feelings-filled message.

 

Now you're trying to attach yourself to another man who's very clearly showing signs that he's not available for a relationship. And have also sent him a long, feelings-filled message.

 

There is a pattern here. It's something more going on inside you. Kindly and with respect, it might be best for you to stay single for a while. Work on yourself and getting to a point where you're happy on your own, and can identify healthy love versus fear- and anxiety-fueled attachment. I think you will be so much happier and make far healthier choices for yourself when you have strong enough boundaries to walk away from guys who are dead-ends.

[Gretchen12]

First, I think your letter is condescending.

Secondly, you said you want him to be clear and honest with you. He already is.

I think you should rethink your behavior. He is the one whose actions match exactly his emotions. You are not a couple. You have not earned his trust. You had sex then you want to act as if you have a bond of love.

Think about all those people who can be so affectionate and then ghost you. Where did the affection go? Well, it's because all that physical affection was fake. There was sex, that's all. The kissing and hand holding were acts, well practiced by daters, that do not represent the true amount of trust and commitment.

I don't think you can conclude he is incapable of affection for someone. And if it hasn't happened does not mean he doesn't like you. It's the simple and honest fact that you have not yet built something of true substance. Sometimes a military man trusts another with his life. No acting there.

I'm not criticizing your behavior. It is quite common, that's why you think he is strange. Someone who is true to his emotions would appear strange to the majority of people who go through the motions.

[PRW]

PRW, I beg to differ.

and I beg to differ.

[PRW]

First, I think your letter is condescending.

Secondly, you said you want him to be clear and honest with you. He already is.

Exactly. I haven't seen any indication of a single dishonest word out of him. In fact he seems honest to a fault. I'll go further to say that he isn't broken. At most he may just need time to adjust to the mamby-pamby cry-baby itching-to-be-offended society we exist in. And I suppose be a better shot when the dog causes trouble,...although if a trained military sniper can't hit a dog with a rifle while chasing livestock he probably did it on purpose to cut the dog owner some slack and give him one more chance to keep the dog under control. I suspect if he wanted to he would have taken it out on the first shot.

 

I went back a read that letter this time. I think my response to it would have been, "Don't worry, it will be fine,...you'll never see me again, problem solved."

Edited January 20, 2019 by PRW

[flubberghaster]

Harsh words, but probably need to hear them.

 

Yes. He missed the dog intentionally.