things changing but I'm still worried **Updated**

[lovesflame]

hello,

My breakup is effecting me in ways unlike any other of my life. It has been worse than when my daughter's mother and I broke up 7 years ago, or my long-term (5 year) relationship after that ended 2 years ago.

Here is the story:

we started dating in August. This was the happiest, healthiest relationship I had been in. She was brilliant a political activist, but more importantly she treated me amazingly well, and I did not know relationships could be that great. We truly spent every day together and every night when she was working long hours.

 

We had some issues of me sending dumb, flirty texts to exes but were quickly resolved.

Then in November she became anxious that the apartment was messy and we were having my friend over for dinner, so she left before my best friend arrived. I think she was upset her job ended after the election day.

 

I was upset and I did not speak to her much for a few days.

She became very concerned with my distance, and looking back, perhaps I was having ambivalent thoughts, but she would text me "are we breaking up?" "do you still love me?" etc. I told her everything was fine, but I did not go over there or have a serious talk for about a week, then she said it wasn't working and broke up with me. I did not see this coming! I thought ok we can try friends- she needs "to be alone" "work on herself" I thought it was temporary.

 

Once I realized it was over I freaked out.

I brought flowers and gifts to her door, mailed her a poem (I am a poet) asked for her back, etc. but she did not budge.

I told her I needed to not be contacted for a while.

She ended up contacting me about a week later saying she missed me etc.

Then she told me "are you sleeping with other people"

 

I told her no, I only want her.

She sais, "I was so good to her, and she still loves me wants to have sex with me (in different terms) and misses me"

we talked casually and I wrote her a long apology letter outlining all the self-reflection I have done. she told me she truly loved it.

4 days later, during Christmas she texted me to tell me that she was sleeping with a long ago ex- it was just for sex and nothing serious, but that me and her had no chance of getting back together again and to get the idea out of my head. I was truly crushed and my heart broke inside.

She became upset and blocked me off everything.

 

A few days later, she added me back on IG and put hearts by my new years pictures, I said happy NY and she told me "I am forever grateful for you."

I thought maybe this was another chance, we began casually and kindly speaking over the next few days, then I emailed her telling her how much I have learned and I would love to start off a fresh, brand-new relationship with her.

She told me "her decision has been made. she does not want to get back together. her heart is not in it. she does not see me in the long-term. etc."

 

Finally, the next day, she told me we should not text much because she does not want to "lead me on." wants space.

That was the last we spoke and it was 2 days ago.

 

I am feeling a bit better today finally accepting it, but I still hope and want her back. I imagine I could bring flowers on Valentine's day and we go on some fancy date and be valentines.

 

I know she hasn't been seeing the guy and the sad way I know this is that I have been off work and driving by seeing her car is still parked out front. (it pains me to admit this behavior but I know I can find support here)

 

She still looks at every single thing I post- I know she loved me I am so confused...

Please offer any insight at all. I am going to have to ignore her for good and move on, but I am struggling to accept she won't ever come back.

 

Thank you

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ExpatInItaly]

It's over, OP.

 

You made some serious gaffes during the relationship, and made a couple thereafter. But you two don't work as a couple and she is not interested anymore.

 

Your relationship burned out quickly and it sounds like she is finding other ways to occupy herself now.

[manfrombelow2]

First thing first, please know me and others here all share your pain, OP, and we all do comprehend deeply what you're going through now in your head. You are not alone. We have all been there.

 

In the quoted part, that was a fatal mistake a person (especially a male) can make right after the breakup, which means "freaking out, buying gifts and flowers... etc..."

 

Because these things only work on movies, not in real life. These things, in the eyes of females, are considered "bribe". They know we do it (bribing them) just because we want to convice them to give us a pass over the current situation, not because we are sincerely and honestly want to give them those things.

 

Moreever, since females are emotional creatures, they tend to associate things with emotions. That's why when they look at your flowers or gifts, all they feel is the bad/negative feeling that connects to the very reason behind you giving them those things.

 

Finally, when someone starts making excuse to get out of our lives, we simply let them do it. The moment she told you she wanted out, or a break, you let her do it. Why? Because that's what she wanted, we simply give our partners what they want. That's THE ONLY way to handle the situation where a partner wants a break.

 

We don't beg. We don't cry. We don't pledge. We don't threaten. We don't shout. We don't argue. We don't hate them. We don't resent them. WE DON'T DO ANYTHING NEGATIVE, BAD because those behaviours are not masculine energy.

 

If I were OP, the moment she told me she wanted out, I'd simply text her saying sth along the line of:

 

"Alright. I respect what you want. Thank you for all the memories we've had together. Let me know if you've changed your mind. Take care of yourself. Bye."

 

And I'd forget about her from that moment on. That's the formula. That's the only correct way to handle a breakup.

 

Given all the mistakes OP has made so far, I suggest the first thing you need to do now, is going silent and ceasing all contacts with her, please.

 

 

 

I brought flowers and gifts to her door, mailed her a poem (I am a poet) asked for her back, etc. but she did not budge.

Edited January 10, 2019 by thaygiaogiang

[lovesflame]

Thank you.

I am aware of the way those things were never going to work. But here's what I truly don't understand at first I was fine and I told her we are better off friends but after a week or two apart I couldn't handle it.

Then I miss her more than ever. Strange...

2nd thing why would she text me that whole first month or so I miss u... I love you... are you with other girls?

Why would she do that?

And the worst part is I think... what could I have done at that time to get her back?

I blame myself and think of it everyday. I should have went to see her talked more or made a larger effort and we could have worked it out.

I'm torturing myself daily....

[manfrombelow2]

Don't try to apply logic to women's behaviour. Get used to the idea that they do things based on their emotions, not neccessarily needing a particular reason.

 

Moreoever, it's actions that count, not words. It doesn't matter to me if a girls say she loves me 1000 times if she's not making an effort to physically be with me.

 

Good luck with the healing process.

 

<snip>

2nd thing why would she text me that whole first month or so I miss u... I love you... are you with other girls?

Why would she do that?

And the worst part is I think... what could I have done at that time to get her back?

<snip>

Edited January 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[lovesflame]

Thanks but I really and truly do not believe it has anything to do with male or female or logic and emotion those are simplified stereotypes and we are dealing with complex human relationships.

But yes she would have came back and not just said it and the reasons don't matter much anymore.

But I don't understand why I went away from her at first and when she asked to work it out and talk or see her I did not then she broke up with me.

I regret my actions every single day.

She took that time apart and decided she was done with me and I can't accept it or deal with it.

I had 4 other dates in two weeks and all it does is make me miss her more...

I wish I worked it out when I had a chance.

Maybe one day in the future... but can't bank on that.

[lovesflame]

Hello,

I am seeing new behavior from my ex and would like any thoughts/ideas on it.

After our breakup and the begging and gifts and letters, etc we were actually done. We had LC at times and I thought things would reconcile as she text me "I miss you" etc.

However, nothing ever worked out. It was BC. I sent a thoughtful reflection of my changes and saying we should give it another chance, and she told me we were never getting back together did not want to lead me on, etc. etc. This was around January 5th.

Less than a week of more NC and she saw I was doing my performance poetry and told me I would do so great on Jan 12th.

she asked for a copy to read, and the next day we talked and face timed for over 2 hours (that was this Sunday).

Since then, she has called me almost every single day and we speak for a long while or text every day multiple times.

She tells me, "you've changed for the better." "You're doing so well, and you're calm now." etc

I am not sure what is going on here, but honestly just speaking to her has given me so much happiness to just connect with her.

I am no prophet but these seem like very good signs.

 

I am planning on taking it slowly and speaking to her in this deep way we have been about our lives, pasts, future goals, and so on.

Then, hopefully we meet up soon and see how strong the connection and vibe still is.

Finally, with Valentine's coming up, I will ask her to dinner then.

 

I know people have been hurt by exes (myself included) but I do think for all of us who really and truly know our ex is the one (myself included) we should go for these opportunities and see where the flow takes us.

I am not scared to be heartbroken again as I have learned to let go, because the old relationship is dead and never was and the new one is not yet defined but is slowly growing into whatever it may be.

Thanks for reading

[manfrombelow2]

1/ The only correct formula when you get dumped by your partner is to go full No Contact immediately. In your case, you made typical mistakes like "begging" and giving her "gifts". Gifts are not meant to be "bribes" to make a woman change her mind. Because everytime she looks at that gift, she remembers how weak and needy you were at the moment you gave it to her.

 

There is no such thing as "Low Contact". I bet you were the one who contacted her first. Because you were needy and clingy in this relationship with her.

 

After our breakup and the begging and gifts and letters, etc we were actually done. We had LC at times and I thought things would reconcile as she text me "I miss you" etc.

 

2/ You were basically trying to "talk" someone into liking you again. Unfortunely, human emotions don't work that way. It's her emotions that you need to change, not her mind. Hence she refused to get back with you. At this point you really should have deployed full No Contact, which you didn't do.

 

I sent a thoughtful reflection of my changes and saying we should give it another chance, and she told me we were never getting back together did not want to lead me on, etc. etc. This was around January 5th.

 

3/ During NC, if for any reasons, she contacts you first, you grab that chance to just ASK HER OUT for a definite date. This is the only correct formula. But you didn't do it. You immersed yourself in non-stop chit chat instead.

 

Less than a week of more NC and she saw I was doing my performance poetry and told me I would do so great on Jan 12th.

she asked for a copy to read, and the next day we talked and face timed for over 2 hours (that was this Sunday).

 

4/ Again, until you guys are officially back together again, you don't spend time talking for hours on the phone when your dumper reaches back. You just need to ask them out. If they agree, good but if they decline, say something like "Cool, let me know when you're free to go out together. U have to go now. Bye." - That's the only correct formula.

 

Since then, she has called me almost every single day and we speak for a long while or text every day multiple times.

 

5/ None of these matter unless she's asking to go back to you. These are just words. Words are meaningless because they are free. You don't want words. You want a romantic relationship.

 

She tells me, "you've changed for the better." "You're doing so well, and you're calm now." etc

 

6/ This communicates you are needy and clingy and that you pedestalized her.

 

but honestly just speaking to her has given me so much happiness to just connect with her.

 

7/ Good signs for what? You should have just asked her out, but you didn't do it.

 

I am no prophet but these seem like very good signs.

 

8/ More "talks". More logic. More conversations. More verbal behaviours instead of real actions. None of these will work. A woman doesn't need to hear logic or reasons, she just needs to feel good (mentally and physically, yes).

 

speaking to her in this deep way we have been about our lives, pasts, future goals, and so on.

 

9/ Why wait to ask her out? And inviting her to dinner on Valentine's day while she was your dumper communicates that you are still needy, clingy and desperate.

 

Then, hopefully we meet up soon and see how strong the connection and vibe still is.

Finally, with Valentine's coming up, I will ask her to dinner then.

 

10/ I'm sorry to break it to you, but there is no such thing as "the one" in this world. The fact that you are using this term to mention her communicates that you are pedestalizing her because you are needy, clingy and desperate.

 

I know people have been hurt by exes (myself included) but I do think for all of us who really and truly know our ex is the one (myself included) we should go for these opportunities and see where the flow takes us.

 

11/ Here's your reality check: Your old relationship is dead and there's no such thing as "the new one" here yet. What you should do instead is accepting the fact that you were needy and clingy and pedestalizing her in order to change your mindset and behaviour. If she (ever) comes back, and finds out you were still a needy and clingy guy, she will eventually dump you again, this time for good.

 

By the way, you sound very contradicting when you said you are "not scared to be heartbroken again as you have learned to let her go" but at the same time your topic's title was "but I'm still worried." => The truth is you are fearful of losing her again. You are fearful she'd dump you again (which will be very likely to happen if you still act needy and clingy).

 

That's what you are now. I am sorry for not trying to sugarcoat reality for you because there's no use doing it.

 

I am not scared to be heartbroken again as I have learned to let go, because the old relationship is dead and never was and the new one is not yet defined but is slowly growing into whatever it may be.

Thanks for reading

Edited January 20, 2019 by thaygiaogiang

[lovesflame]

I agree that I am desperate to have her back but I will clear up a couple of things.

First, during our relationship I was far from clingy and needy which led to our breakup. I often times neglected her and ignored her leading to the breakup especially because I was caught messaging and sexting multiple other women.

 

Second, I did ask her out this week, but tonight is her mother's birthday, yesterday was my best friend's birthday and tomorrow I am going to a road trip to LA, so none of those times worked.

But you are right I will ask her again very soon. She did not say no.

I will ask and go out and update you soon.

I have dated so many people and I am over 30 years old, so I know she is different that is why I am on here and never giving up on this

[Twizzlestick]

<snip>

But you are right I will ask her again very soon. She did not say no.

I will ask and go out and update you soon.

I have dated so many people and I am over 30 years old, so I know she is different that is why I am on here and never giving up on this

 

 

Hey Lovesflame!

 

I’m glad to hear you’re doing well. Non of us are experts. I’m merely a fellow lost dumpee. But maybe a bunch of third party perspectives never hurts. I like to “bounce my ball off the wall” too.

 

Mm, tricky one in your situation. I can see some of the things you say you did would have caused trust to go aling with feelings of betrayal. So hard to strike the right line and tone. A lot of her negative feelings about you post breakup will be ruminating on that aspect. Humans have something called “confirmation bias”. If they think something or have decided something the brain looks for confirmation of that notion. So you don’t want to further add evidence.

 

.....Equally you won’t fix that by chatting the night away. That isn’t the antidote to loss of trust/betrayal.

 

In my external opinion. You might see hope in her words, but the prob is we never know what’s in the dumpers head. She might be happy for you that you’re making changes, but doesn’t mean they’re working for her attraction. The fact she’s talking so frequently does indicates on some level she’s not “done” with you. If she were totally “done” in the true sense with you as a human you’d not hear a word.

 

 

But! Doesn’t mean she wants back, could be attachment, can’t quite deal with full consequence of you being gone, guilt, habit (like an old pillow). I’m in the same boat.

 

I think you have to raise the stakes. Her attraction won’t rise like this. Without being a cold arse, just distance yourself. If she rings be polite but no more chats for ages. She fired you from that job, and you’re no longer being payed for it, so don’t turn up to the office. You answer, talk a few mins but then you have to go for xyz reason. Start acting like an ex. Start acting like her decision. She’s getting “ex light” at the min. All the benefits of yacking with no missing/no commitment.

 

I’d agree, ask her out. But now you’ve already asked, so I wouldn’t ask again. I would leave it a while. She knows you’ve asked once. Granted the dates didn’t work, but it’s not for you to keep insisting. It was a one time offer. She’ll remember and if she thinks you’re mysterious she might bring it back up again. Go back to NC (I mean don’t instigate), if she rings - polite normal you, but you’re not Mr chatty friend and you’ve “got to rush, nice to hear from you”. Keep it polite, but brief.

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ExpatInItaly]

I often times neglected her and ignored her leading to the breakup especially because I was caught messaging and sexting multiple other women.

 

You need to get to the bottom of why you did this. Really take your time to reflect on why you gave yourself permission to hurt your partner. It won't simply be a matter of "I learned my lesson when I lost her" either; where does the need for attention come from, and why did you prioritize that over respect for her? Think about what you were seeking from these women, and whether you were actually interested in your ex enough to be in a relationship with her anymore.

 

Otherwise, the same thing would be likely to happen again if you did reconcile.

 

And I can promise you, she hasn't forgotten either. Every time you talk to her, she is likely struggling with those mixed emotions: it feels good in the moment to talk to you and reconnect with a familiar person, but she is also probably still wondering how she could give you another chance when you proved yourself be a low-quality boyfriend.

 

I say that not to totally put you down or dash your hopes, but rather to underline the fact that if you two did get back together, it's only the beginning of a long road to true healing as a couple. The trust is gone and that will be a hard process to rebuild. Ask yourself if you're really up for the challenge and able to demonstrate the patience you will need when the past rears its ugly head and she reminds you of the hurt you caused. Reconciliation after a betrayal like that is full of such ups and downs. Just be sure you know what you'd be signing up for.

[Twizzlestick]

Oh, one other thing. Sorry to dominate your thread, but just occurred to me and I think in your particular shoes really crucial!...

 

Now, I know for a second you’re no entertaining this. But us dumpees get desperate and our ideas/emotions are all over the show from one day to the next.

 

Keep in mind what is likely dominating her thoughts when she’s ruminating over you two - loss of trust and feelings of betrayal. So as long as you’re wanting her back in the close period following the break, don’t in your shoes think of posting pics on social media of you with other girls that might be misconstrued, even if you’re not trying to make her jealous. Her mind will be hunting for any, I mean any evidence that you fit the mental model her emotional brain as you down as.

 

Of course, once you’ve moved on/ given up, crack on as she won’t matter!

 

There’s no easy fix for loss of trust. It’ll take her attraction for you to rise enough that she will be caught between “can I get over this” in her head. You can’t do anything for the loss of trust bit. That can only be addressed after reconciliation. Sometimes it’s never fixed, just people make their peace with it as part of forgiveness, rather than losing the person.

 

Just continue to be a model guy with dignity and self respect and cut out the leading to nowt chit chat with her. You’ve asked her out now. She won’t forget that.

[d0nnivain]

She's not going to forgive you (if she has any sense). She is being kind because she's hurting too. She can't fathom why you were so cruel, neglecting her & sexting other women. She is seeking comfort from you as some sort of misguided friendship but her behavior is not indicative of a desire to reconcile.

 

Since you put so much effort into being with other women, just go be with one already now that you are officially free. Don't lure this poor woman back to you just so in a few months you can want to sow more wild oats.

[lovesflame]

Thank you.

Great wisdom and big picture thinking.

I have looked into this deeply with the soul work and personal psychological work I have done sense than.

I believe it comes down to two different main things (and this is hard to share)

 

1. fear of trust and intimacy with someone new- this came from my past like when my daughter's mom hid her mental illness and medication from me when we were dating and then also her alcoholism once our daughter was born. This was followed up by a truly toxic relationship where I would be literally abused by her and abusive myself (this lasted 5 years)

Finally, it comes back to not trusting my mothers because she did not supervise me when I was 8 and I was molested.

 

But, overall, it all came through as lack of trust in someone I had true feelings for.

I worked on these things through self-awareness, insight and spiritual practices (I did none of these things for many years until now)

 

2. since I was going though so many changes this last year I thought I wanted to try open relationships etc, but also I was on a major "ego trip" since my self-esteem was finally good.

But now I realized all of that was false and what truly matters to me are the relationships I actually value in my life.

 

I learned that in the worst way, but the lesson is so important.

I am glad she says she sees the change in me- only by confronting my demons and doing solitary work and support with friends did I have these realizations.

 

I think she seems them in how I changed my lifestyle patterns and reflected in my art.

I just want to give her the love she deserves.

 

You are right even last night she brought up how she used to look through my phone when I was asleep and all I could say is it won't be like that again.

If she leaps with me, I won't mistreat her again.

 

 

You need to get to the bottom of why you did this. Really take your time to reflect on why you gave yourself permission to hurt your partner. It won't simply be a matter of "I learned my lesson when I lost her" either; where does the need for attention come from, and why did you prioritize that over respect for her? Think about what you were seeking from these women, and whether you were actually interested in your ex enough to be in a relationship with her anymore.<snip>

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[lovesflame]

Yes, that is a great point.

You are right she does not deserve to even think for a minute that I am acting that way on social media. She keeps asking me if I am dating or why I am up late etc. (I usually sleep early)

But the truth is I literally went on a date, and stood up and left because my heart is only there for her.

It has been 2 months since we have seen each other and she keeps alluding to it, so I will tell you the chit chat has been good in a way because I am actually getting to know more about her now than ever before. deep conversations.

I really truly did change but only though self-transformation from the depths of my soul.

I will keep updated thanks for the advise.

 

 

Oh, one other thing. Sorry to dominate your thread, but just occurred to me and I think in your particular shoes really crucial!...

 

Now, I know for a second you’re no entertaining this. But us dumpees get desperate and our ideas/emotions are all over the show from one day to the next.<snip>

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ExpatInItaly]

since I was going though so many changes this last year I thought I wanted to try open relationships etc, but also I was on a major "ego trip" since my self-esteem was finally good.

 

I just realized I participated in another thread you posted about this. This is the same women you only from August to November, correct?

 

If I understand the timeline: you wanted to try an open relationship, sexted other women and broke up all within a few months?

 

If so, your relationship was never on solid ground. The problem with that much drama and broken trust in the early stages of dating is that there is no reference point for her to look back, when times were better with you, and use that as goal to work towards again. No previous, tried-and-true foundation of mutual respect and integrity. A few months is not enough to have established a reliable base of trust and genuine partnership. That is really going to work against you here.

 

I would thus not put too much stock into her contact with you now, to be honest. It sounds to me more she is still hurting, so she gets some temporary soothing when you pay attention to her and show her some positive aspects, but your time together had significant issues for such a short relationship. If I'm being frank, the chances that she will come back and stay back aren't in your favour.

[lovesflame]

Yea the odds aren't high. Roses grow in the ashes of war zones. Light shines even after the darkest day.

I am going to do whatever it takes mentally emotionally etc. If i get hurt again it's worth the chance.

[Chi townD]

Okay dude. Hard truth. A smack in the back of the head.

 

She was never that into you. At least, not as much as you were for her. She breaks up with you. You freak out and chase after her with flowers and letters and poems for about a week. She contacts you and asks if you're sleeping with anyone. BIG RED FLAG!!!! You say no and then 4 days later she admits she's sleeping with someone else less than two weeks after your breakup!!!!!! Hell, correction! If she asked you if you were sleeping with anyone, then she slept with this guy within a week of breaking up with you! Didn't take time to mourn the lose of you or the relationship which kind of tells me, she was either cheating on you, or found your replacement and made your break up official to go sleep with this guy! But, she's telling you it's just sex and there's nothing to it. Uh huh......

 

In the meantime. she'll periodically text you stuff like, "I miss you" blah, blah..... She's doing that so you can stroke her ego. She's pulling on the leash to make sure that the dog is still there. And if the dog isn't there, she goes looking for the dog! See, if this other guy is just friends with benefits, then romantic affirmations isn't in play here. She's getting her physical needs met by this guy and her emotional needs met by you! How is that even remotely fare to you?!?!?

 

Dude, block her on all of your social media. You're getting played. Block her on everything and start making positive changes to your life.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Chi townD

[lovesflame]

So she has been calling me basically every single day now for the last three weeks.

But she never wants to see me.

Last night she told me we are friends and she doesn't want me to think we are getting back together.

However she also say things like she misses cuddling me and will come over soon etc.

She wants to talk for literally hours on the phone about everything.

What should I do?

Give up?

How about make a move on Valentine's day? Flowers?

Please help.

[lovesflame]

There is a lot of talk on here of people asking if there is any chance also about moving on or NC. But what about when your ex actually has rekindled contact?

How have you handled it?

I know every situation is different but overall thoughts...

For me my ex now calls me each and every day I guess we are friends again. Of course it must start this way because rushing is a huge mistake.

But it is a strange situation to be in not certain if you will be together again one day or become good friends or uktimately if you are hurting yourself again....

Thoughts....

[Redhead14]

". . . if you are hurting yourself again...."

 

It's one thing to put yourself "out there" for a new flame/love, it's another to put your hand near the same flame that already burnt you once . . .

[MeadowFlower]

How long has your breakup been OP?

[lovesflame]

Meadowflower we broke up around thanksgiving day late November. I tried getting her back all crazy after wards then gave up. But she consistently talks to me more and more since mid January. Until it is daily and very lengthy conversations on the phone. I am doing better but not even close to over her....

[Marc878]

Meadowflower we broke up around thanksgiving day late November. I tried getting her back all crazy after wards then gave up. But she consistently talks to me more and more since mid January. Until it is daily and very lengthy conversations on the phone. I am doing better but not even close to over her....

 

You are keeping yourself in this. Why?

[elaine567]

Meadowflower we broke up around thanksgiving day late November. I tried getting her back all crazy after wards then gave up. But she consistently talks to me more and more since mid January. Until it is daily and very lengthy conversations on the phone. I am doing better but not even close to over her....

 

 

Unless she is actively suggesting she made a mistake and she wants you back then she has no doubt put you in the friend zone.

Women can do this, as exes can make excellent friends, especially ones who still care deeply. She gets you as a BFF, someone who genuinely cares for her, but without the relationship she didn't want...