Girl wants to be independent

January 6, 2019

I’ve been friends with this girl for a couple years. She has told me that she would consider dating me if she ever decided to date anyone again. Right now she’s finishing up college (she’s 28 and I’m 37) and she also has 2 kids from 2 different fathers who both were abusive with her. She lives with her kids, mom and uncle. Her mom has never worked and has mooched off guys and is proud to say she uses guys.

My friend has always been adamant about never using guys and has a heart of gold. She never lets me pay for anything or asks for anything because she says she never wants to use guys like her does. She gets super stressed at home because her mom and uncle are rude to her. I’ve offered to buy a house together with her but she refused saying that if she moved in with me and we weren’t dating that her family would disown her because then she’d be the one using guys.

I asked if we started to date if she would change her mind about living with me and she said she’s always envisioned having her own place because she feels like if it’s with a guy he would be controlling and watch her every move. I’m not like that and have told her that i respect the privacy of others. Also she has only dated the bad boys, I’m a good guy and completely opposite of what she’s had in the last.

She said I’m good looking and I make her happy and she loves spending time with me. We hang out 4-5 days a week going to dinner, activities etc. all of which has increased recently. Do you think there’s a chance she’s ever change her mind about living with me? Or for that matter dating me? I’ve told her that even when she graduates it would be hard to live alone with 2 kids plus work even if she makes decent money. But I’m well off and could help support her and the kids but even that doesn’t seem to appeal to her. Your thoughts??

Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs

January 6, 2019

A woman either likes you or she doesn't.

There's no excuse in between.

And there's no amount of pursuasion can change a person's mind into liking you. You just cannot "talk" someone into liking you.

If I were you, I'd just stop investing my time and energy into this woman (not saying you have to forget about her, but just "toss" her aside for the mean time) and start dating other women instead.

When you are dating multiple women at once, you'll have more option and never have a bad time letting go of women who don't have high interest in you, which, unfortunately, is your case now.

Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact full quote of starting post

January 6, 2019

If you care about her as much as you seem to, let her stand on her own two feet. Cheer her on but stop trying to help her financially. What you see as kindness she sees as you saying she isn't good enough & can't do it on her own. You wanna help her? Offer to babysit so she can study; do her laundry; mow her lawn but stop giving her money or offering to.

January 6, 2019

I'm sorry but I need to disagree on this.

What matters is the girl should at least have the same level of interest in OP as he is to her. As long as the balance is one-sided (in her favour), the rest is meaningless.

No man should just babysits a girl's child, does her laundry and mows her lawn without receiving at least the same amount of affection and love from her in return.

In OP's case, if the girl really doesn't want anything romantically to do with him, he should walk away and never looks back. She and her child are not OP's problems / responsibilities if they are not his family.

If you care about her as much as you seem to, let her stand on her own two feet. Cheer her on but stop trying to help her financially. What you see as kindness she sees as you saying she isn't good enough & can't do it on her own. You wanna help her? Offer to babysit so she can study; do her laundry; mow her lawn but stop giving her money or offering to.

January 7, 2019

"I’ve offered to buy a house together with her...."

"Also she has only dated the bad boys, I’m a good guy and completely opposite of what she’s had in the last..."

"She said I’m good looking and I make her happy and she loves spending time with me."

"I’m well off and could help support her and the kids"

I know i'm cherry picking here, but these statements stand-out to me as something a "nice guy" would say, which comes from a mindset of weakness.

There is a concept in nice-guy behavior known as a covert contract. I'll do _____ for you if you do ______ for me.

In your example above, you are offering to buy a house on the condition that she starts dating you / live together with you because you want her affection. You are essentially trying to buy your way into her heart.

I'll pose this to you. If what i'm saying above is not the case, then why not buy her a house with no strings/agendas attached. She doesn't have to date you now or into the future or ever sleep with you. It's just a gesture of your care for her and she can go on living her life and you can do the same. Would you still do it??

If you're well off, just buy her the house and pay her child support whilst she can go sleep with any other guy except you.

January 7, 2019

No man should just babysits a girl's child, does her laundry and mows her lawn without receiving at least the same amount of affection and love from her in return.

He offered to BUY HER A HOUSE! On balance doing a favor for her barely compares but it would be more effective then always trying to bail her out with money.

I agree that affection & interest should be reciprocal. The do spend time together but right now he's not hearing her about what she wants -- independence, to prove she can make her own way. My suggestions feed his need to help her without stepping on her toes.

January 7, 2019

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I should clarify by saying that I’ve never once told her that if I do this I want this from you. I did say it would be nice to date you at some point but I’m not rushing or pushing you into anything. I also told her that if we never date I’d still be her good friend for life. And I’m not looking for anything in return. I’m simply trying to help her out because she gets stressed easily and has a lot going on. I really care about her and the kids and I’m not looking for anything in return. I just have a good heart and I’m trying my best to be a good person to her. Of course I would like to date her but I’m fine with being friends for life or until she’s ready to date (if ever)

January 7, 2019

If you set yourself up as her friend, odds are that is all you will ever be. But since you insist you are OK with being her friend, try giving her time to study. That will al least show you hear her when she says she wants to do it on her own. Spending time with her kids also at least gives her the visual of you as a father figure. I am not suggesting you use the kids to get to her.

January 7, 2019

If you have nothing better to do with your time + energy + effort + money, then you're welcome to invest it into her, without wanting anything in return.

I wouldn't.

Best of lucks.

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I should clarify by saying that I’ve never once told her that if I do this I want this from you. I did say it would be nice to date you at some point but I’m not rushing or pushing you into anything. I also told her that if we never date I’d still be her good friend for life. And I’m not looking for anything in return. I’m simply trying to help her out because she gets stressed easily and has a lot going on. I really care about her and the kids and I’m not looking for anything in return. I just have a good heart and I’m trying my best to be a good person to her. Of course I would like to date her but I’m fine with being friends for life or until she’s ready to date (if ever)

January 7, 2019

I know i'm cherry picking here, but these statements stand-out to me as something a "nice guy" would say, which comes from a mindset of weakness.

There is a concept in nice-guy behavior known as a covert contract. I'll do _____ for you if you do ______ for me.

In your example above, you are offering to buy a house on the condition that she starts dating you / live together with you because you want her affection. You are essentially trying to buy your way into her heart.

I'll pose this to you. If what i'm saying above is not the case, then why not buy her a house with no strings/agendas attached. She doesn't have to date you now or into the future or ever sleep with you. It's just a gesture of your care for her and she can go on living her life and you can do the same. Would you still do it??

If you're well off, just buy her the house and pay her child support whilst she can go sleep with any other guy except you.

OP, read this ^^^^ over and over till you memorize it.

You have textbook "nice guy syndrome". All the things you do for her are really just a bribe for sex & acceptance. You put her on a pedastal and follow her around like a puppy hoping that some day some way she will suddenly declare you her boyfriend.

At some point you will wake up one morning and find out she has a new guy in her life and he will be masculine and a bit of a "bad boy". He won't give her everything she wants at the drop of a hat, he won't take any "lip" from her,...and she will cling to him. You'll be slapping your forehead saying, "Wha- what?!?! Why not mean? Another possibility is that you will see some guy snooping around and you will suddenly decide to "Tell her how you feel". In response she will become uneasy around you and start to distance herself from you, and she might run to the bad boy that was snooping around even sooner.

Go to YouTube and do a search with the keywords Nice Guy and Dating. There will be more hits on that then you can watch in a lifetime.

January 7, 2019

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I should clarify by saying that I’ve never once told her that if I do this I want this from you. I did say it would be nice to date you at some point but I’m not rushing or pushing you into anything. I also told her that if we never date I’d still be her good friend for life. And I’m not looking for anything in return. I’m simply trying to help her out because she gets stressed easily and has a lot going on. I really care about her and the kids and I’m not looking for anything in return. I just have a good heart and I’m trying my best to be a good person to her. Of course I would like to date her but I’m fine with being friends for life or until she’s ready to date (if ever)

I never meant it as something you directly told her, it's just a non-verbal signal you're sending out.

I think you have two options here:

1. Continue to care for her without expecting anything in return whilst going on dates to find love elsewhere.

2. Do NOT under any circumstances do anything for this girl other than take her out on dates (if she rejects you then move on).

Don't put your whole life on hold for one person. No woman (or Man for that matter) is some precious little snowflake. Your life matters more than anyone else's.

January 7, 2019

Exactly.

Even though OP constantly reminded everyone here that he "does not expect anything in return", but the fact he had to open a topic to ask about this told me he is just trying to lie to himself.

By proposing to buy that girl a house, he's just clinging to the false hope that one day she'll suddenly realize how awesome he is and finally give him the chance to officially date her. This is a typical beta behaviour.

This is what happened when beta guys focus too much into one single girl, instead of dating multiple women at once. The more options you have, the more easy for you to let go of women that don't work for you.

OP, read this ^^^^ over and over till you memorize it.<snip>

Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

January 7, 2019

I did say it would be nice to date you at some point but I’m not rushing or pushing you into anything.

That is the worst thing you could have said. It is weak and beta-ish. Just offer her a date, a real date, a specific day/time/place. YOU make the plan yourself before you offer it.

I also told her that if we never date I’d still be her good friend for life. And I’m not looking for anything in return. I’m simply trying to help her out because she gets stressed easily and has a lot going on. I really care about her and the kids and I’m not looking for anything in return. I just have a good heart and I’m trying my best to be a good person to her. Of course I would like to date her but I’m fine with being friends for life or until she’s ready to date (if ever)

That is just a bunch of pleading for acceptance. You are hoping that somehow by some miracle she will ask you out.

You need to wake up. The whole "not ready to date" just means she is not ready to date YOU. If some other "hot" guy comes along that is masculine and is "his own man" she will go for him at the drop of a hat.

January 7, 2019

Second this.

When a woman says she is "not ready to date" or "doesn't want to get into a relationship," they must be interpreted as she is not ready to date YOU and she doesn't want to get into a relationship WITH YOU.

And when an alpha with dignity who views himself as high-value knows the woman he's seeing is not willing to be with him romantically as he wanted, he'd drop her quicker than a bad habit and move forward to the next woman on his list. Because an alpha knows his life is too short and his time too precious to get stuck around someone who doesn't want him back. That's alpha mindset.

You need to wake up. The whole "not ready to date" just means she is not ready to date YOU. If some other "hot" guy comes along that is masculine and is "his own man" she will go for him at the drop of a hat.

January 7, 2019

This is what happened when beta guys focus too much into one single girl,

They also tend to focus on girls with baggage, drama, and issues,...because they think they stand a better chance with them because they assume she has less options than a woman who has her life in order and has her act together. However having baggage, drama, and issues makes them draw even more to "bad boys",...particularly the truly bad ones. Edited January 7, 2019 by PRW

January 7, 2019

She pays her own way because she doesn't want you to think these are dates, OP. You're a close friend, but it's clear reading between the lines that she doesn't have romantic feelings for you.

Offering to buy her a house when you're not even dating is ludicrous, and comes across as very desperate. You also should not be offering to help financially support her and her kids. That is something a long-term partner or husband does, not a friend. She is trying to make that clear you by wisely turning down that offer. When you are pulling out the big guns like this in an effort to get a woman to go out with you, you're fighting a losing battle.

She might want to be independent, but the bigger message behind all of this is: she is just not that into you.

January 7, 2019

They also tend to focus on girls with baggage, drama, and issues,...because they think they stand a better chance with them because they assume she has less options than a woman who has her life in order and has her act together. However having baggage, drama, and issues makes them draw even more to "bad boys",...particularly the truly bad ones.

I would be more inclined to say it has more to do with a nice-guy's need to be a caretaker in the relationship due to some faulty behaviors learnt during childhood.

Being a "bad-boy / jerk" is not the answer to the nice-guy syndrome either. They are two extremes that lead to unhealthy relationships.

January 7, 2019

Are you having sex with this gal? If not, I'd immediately move on because it seems you're in the dreaded "friend zone."

January 7, 2019

Ugh, this woman is a trainwreck. 2 kids by 2 different fathers at 28. Maybe as an older friend you could teach her how to use birth control.

January 7, 2019

A woman either likes you or she doesn't.

There's no excuse in between.

And there's no amount of pursuasion can change a person's mind into liking you. You just cannot "talk" someone into liking you.

If I were you, I'd just stop investing my time and energy into this woman (not saying you have to forget about her, but just "toss" her aside for the mean time) and start dating other women instead.

When you are dating multiple women at once, you'll have more option and never have a bad time letting go of women who don't have high interest in you, which, unfortunately, is your case now.

A hundred times yes! If someone likes you, they like you, there is no grey area. Either yes or no.

January 7, 2019

If you bought her a house, you'd be shooting both of you in the foot. She's not interested in you romantically, so you both have to keep your options open. However no other man is going to date her and no woman is going to date you with this kind of complication between you and this woman.

One other option with housing is to invest in a house or condo IN YOUR NAME and charge her 30% of her income in rent. 30% of one's income is generally the point where one has enough income left to live on. Do your tax laws allow you to write off any losses in rent against your income?

January 7, 2019

She is already using you to boost her own self esteem.

And you are being dishonest with her. You are not her friend, you have an ulterior motive.

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