PRW Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 "You should have been having the kids in your 20's not 30's." It is a moot point because the OP is already 34 and time travel is not a option. Trading her man in for a younger model who wants marriage and kids is IMO the best option. Also may be a moot point as well. She'd probably be in her 40's by then. A 37yo woman finding a guy who wants to start a fresh new family with babies? It is not impossible,...but good luck with that. Going for years to therapy to "get over" what is a normal instinct is madness IMO. NO relationship will survive that long term anyway... "I am visiting my therapist to make me less angry with YOU and to get over never marrying and never having the kids I always wanted..." Like that is going to work.I agree. Once it is too late, it is too late...Unless she hits the guy with an ultimatum and he responds positively. Then there is a pretty big chance that it is too late.
PRW Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 She is not 37, she is 34.OK. Well, None-the-less. Anyway, this has gone as far as I want to go with it. I've said everything I wanted to say. I'd only be repeating myself at this point. So I'm unfollowing the thread.
The Dude Abides Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 Hello Avvril I read a good bit of the thread last night but haven’t been able to re-read and to catch up on new posts, so what I have to say might have been covered already. It sounds like you and your SO have nearly everything that you need to get started in life together: good jobs, a place to live that is your own, devotion to each other (fidelity) and genuine love and affection for each other. That is more than what many couples have together. But it might well be that he has made it this far in his adult life (age 47) without marrying because he truly doesn’t want to, or he is terrified at the prospect of doing so. Either one of those intentions might be for truly valid reasons, reasons that he might not acknowledge or even be able to verbalize. For example, the situation with his brother might be, in the eyes of your SO, a valid reason to be hesitant to marry. Or, he might have had a particularly horrible experience with a woman many years ago, and that is still subconsciously affecting his behavior. Maybe this has occurred to you already, but if not, please try to get him to discuss it with you. A real discusión, not just a blow off “OK yeah we can talk sometime about it... “ If he is a traditional fellow, the issue of children would naturally follow and hinge upon the question of marriage. I have never thought about this until just now, but took a minute to reflect on my situation so I could apply it to your situation. I imagined that my wife and I were at this same point in our lives together (married almost 25, together almost 27, two kids) BUT weren’t married. Everything the same: kids, house, retirement plans, money, devotion, love and respect, etc. And I asked myself: Would I be just as comfortable if we weren’t legally bound to each other via a marriage license and a spoken vow to each other, officiated by an ordained minister? It took only about 5 seconds to admit to myself that no, it wouldn’t be the same and wouldn’t feel the same. Logically, it shouldn’t be that important and the results we have together are what should matter. But to me there is something magical about acknowledging that she is my wife, not just the “only woman in my life.” So, I pass that along to let you know that I understand where you are coming from and hope it works out for you . It’s not wrong for you to want to be married to him rather than just be what you are now: devoted BF/GF. But the next difficult thing is the question of having children. I was married before and my first wife had been trying to get pregnant without my knowledge. It’s a long long story about how I found out after that fact, but for now let’s just leave it at that. I was unnerved, devastated, and truly “freaked out” about what might have happened. The marriage was a disaster and just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Then I met my future wife. I was a broken man and she knew it, but she only knew about 5% of the details. She wanted children and I didn’t (flashbacks from the experience with the first wife affected my wants and desires !! ). She had no idea at that time why i didn’t want children. Well, we talked A LOT and eventually got to the point that we both wanted to have children (together, not with someone else ). Fast forward several years later, and we were talking one day about my reluctance at that time, and I asked her what she would have done if I didn’t follow through after my change of heart about having kids. She told me that she probably would have been willed to act on her instincts to have children, and would likely have decided to make the heartbreaking decision to divorce so she could eventually find someone who wanted to have children. I recall at that moment I truly came to realize how deep the maternal instinct can be for some women, and rather than be angry or hurt at the idea that she would have left me, I felt even more love for her knowing that she wanted to be a mother so very much. So I think it is valid that you want children so much and even better that you want children with this man. I hope you have explained this to him so he can hear it (“I want children, not just with anyone, but with YOU” ). But, following what I learned by the experience my wife and I had , i also think that you might have to accept that this man doesn’t want to have children. It might be solely your desire and if so, than sadly you will need to move on. You might never get over that regret later in life that you don’t have children. I am the product of a marriage that produced children solely because my mother wanted children and my father just did what he had to do to stay married. He was a good father as far as performing his duties to take care of his kids, etc etc, but his heart was never in it. Perfunctory parenting isn’t a good thing . I know you say you can’t or don’t want to be without him, but in my view that strong maternal desire you have means that you need to modify your statement to be “ you don’t want to be without him as your husband and as the father of your children”. That changes the situation from separate issues to only one option for you. You won’t be satisfied remaining BF/GF, and you won’t be satisfied as H/W but childless. The only thing for you is to be Married With Children (sorry, had to reference one of my favorite TV shows for some levity:D ). It’s time sooner than later to clear the calendar and make a date with your SO to talk it all through with an agreement up front that there will be no diversionary statements such as “Oh it’s all going to work out”. When he says things like that it is just making you more anxious and he needs to know it. If you can acknowledge to yourself that your only acceptable option is to be MWC , then it really does make things easier for you in the sense that it eliminates the need for all other discussions. You have my best wishes and hope things work out the way they should for both of you. 2
notbroken Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 He doesn't want to be married. Likely never has. Sorry, but it is the truth. Getting married because of an ultimatum is a very bad idea too. As painful as it is, you two just want different things and are at different places in life. If he doesn't want kids then why should he marry? My guess is he won't. Decide if you can live with that quickly. It won't get easier later. I'm sorry if that is blunt, but it is the truth. As a last ditch effort you can ask him point blank what he REALLY wants (don't ask "do you want marriage and kids" because you are forcing him to give you an answer you want and are just going to get 'delayed'. Instead, ask him where do you see us in 1 year, 5 years, 10+ years. That will tell you ALOT). I'm sorry you are in this situation. I have to think it is common with age differences more than 5 years or so though.
d0nnivain Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 he says stable environment based on the fact that he lost a lot of money due to losing his home to a natural disaster. Also, our work situation is very stressful, we are endlessly working... we both hate the job. It gives us anxiety, stress and panic attacks. He wants to settle into a life where our works dont cause us panic attacks. He may have lost his house to a natural disaster but he should have gotten insurance money as a result. If he did not have insurance you know you are not dealing with a planner. If you both have stressful jobs, what does child rearing look like? Will you quit to be a SAHM? Will your child be raised by others? Are you sure he's OK with being the sole breadwinner? A guy with money problems probably thinks that looks even riskier, especially because expenses go up. Given his age some kind of life insurance on him if he can even get it, to provide for the baby's future seems to be in order; yet another expense. I'm not big on ultimatums but I wasted my 20s on a guy who promised me a future but when push came to shove he decided he didn't "believe in marriage" & I was left to pick up the pieces in my mid 30s. So if you want marriage & kids more then you want him, break up. If you want him more, hush up. What you can't do is stay where you are quietly resenting the heck out him but doing nothing to secure your own future. 1
JuneL Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 You can find a study out there to say anything a person wants. I can find an established study that says the earth is flat,...seriously I can, no joke. And that’s why you need to know the sources of such studies. Indeed, many PhDs have never published an article in a top/good/decent academic journal, ever. But I agree that’s enough for our digression. OP: I think it’s smart for you to set a deadline (e.g., one year), and part ways if he still hasn’t proposed, voluntarily. I don’t see why he should be afraid of divorce, if you’re financially better off than he. Would it help if you offer to have a prenup?
Happy Lemming Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 He may have lost his house to a natural disaster but he should have gotten insurance money as a result. If he did not have insurance you know you are not dealing with a planner. When I read that, my brain immediately went to "Flood Insurance". Its a different policy and people who are not in a "flood plain" rarely purchase it. But some of those rare 100 Year floods have been happening and people who didn't think they needed flood insurance, lost their homes. I had one home that was NOT in a flood plain and I didn't purchase flood insurance, and a rare wicked storm caused some washes nearby to run and then overflow. I lost my driveway, but luckily nothing else. I moved the driveway and had several dump truck loads of "shot rock" boulders put in to protect the house, just in case another 100 year storm rolled in.
d0nnivain Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 But those people also got some money from FEMA. I'm trying to figure out how he got nothing. My main point to the OP remains. She has to chose a priority: Him as is vs. marriage & kids. She may not get both. 1
Author avvril3000 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) Hello Avvril I read a good bit of the thread last night but haven’t been able to re-read and to catch up on new posts, so what I have to say might have been covered already. It sounds like you and your SO have nearly everything that you need to get started in life together: good jobs, a place to live that is your own, devotion to each other (fidelity) and genuine love and affection for each other. That is more than what many couples have together. But it might well be that he has made it this far in his adult life (age 47) without marrying because he truly doesn’t want to, or he is terrified at the prospect of doing so. Either one of those intentions might be for truly valid reasons, reasons that he might not acknowledge or even be able to verbalize. For example, the situation with his brother might be, in the eyes of your SO, a valid reason to be hesitant to marry. Or, he might have had a particularly horrible experience with a woman many years ago, and that is still subconsciously affecting his behavior. <snip> Honest thing is that we've had some major discussions over the last few days about it. He wants me to believe we will get there, and wants me to help him and us get there. He admits his past is affecting him but he says he doesnt wanna be like that anymore, and he does want to get married and have children and he needs my love faith and help to get him there. So, as someone who loves him, im going to try my hardest to help us get there. i love him, so im going to take that and believe him. I have no reason not to. if you generalize men, sure you're gonna get some awful people out there who lie to their partners, but im going to put my faith in him that he is a great person and believe him when he tells me he does want a family and children. maybe its me who is impatient because of my time running out. maybe i need to just be a little more patient and my dreams will come true. i admit, i fell into the trap of feeling weak and out of control. my mind wonders and thinks of all the possibilities about why this hasnt happened yet, but its been 3 years... it hasnt been 7 years so maybe i just need to be a tiny bit more patient with him and things will happen. and all those people saying why would i want to be with a 47 year old - because he is a great man. you can't help who you fall for but i am proud to be with him, and he deserves as much good things as i do. there is nothing wrong with finding a good partner later in life. i've done a lot of soul searching in the last few days, ive figured some things out with myself and while i do have maternal instincts right now, i'd rather not have children than lose this man from my life. he is the best thing that come around as a partner in my life, and im not going to just throw that away. people are **** out there. yes even **** to attractive women. people use, abuse, cheat, lie. this man doesn't. if we miss our chance for whatever reason, then maybe we can adopt or ill get loads of dogs. Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Truncate quote
Mr. Lucky Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 He admits his past is affecting him but he says he doesnt wanna be like that anymore, and he does want to get married and have children and he needs my love faith and help to get him there. So, as someone who loves him, im going to try my hardest to help us get there. Sounds pretty conceptual. What are the actual steps for him to "get there"? Mr. Lucky 2
JuneL Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 What does he exactly need in order to get there? Is it something financial, emotional, or psychological? This is a 47-yo middle-aged man we’re talking about; he certainly doesn’t need a woman 13 years his junior to give him a lollipop and coax him into getting married and having kids, does he? 2
elaine567 Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) ^^^ this^^^ He just bought himself some extra time... 6 months? a year? maybe. If he's lucky and lays it on thick, he can keep it going for another 18mths/2 years... What on earth can you do to "get him there"... its been 3 years already It's utter BS... that is what it is. Sorry. Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Redact quote of immediately preceding post 1
healing light Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 Chances are very high he does not want marriage nor kids. I read an interesting study once where the man who helped devise it was an expert in conducting market research. The quest was to find what kind of man was ready to commit. He found what he calls "an age of commitment." I'm going to quote some of the simplified key findings: -"Most men who graduate from high school start thinking of marriage as a real possibility when they are 23 or 24. -Most men who graduate from college don’t start considering marriage as a real possibility until age 26. -When men go to graduate school, it takes them longer to get into the working world, and they’re not ready to get married until a few years after that. -Ninety percent of men who have graduated from college are ready for the next step between ages 26 and 33; this is when they are most likely to consider marriage. But this window of opportunity stays open only for four to five years, and then the chances a man will marry start to decline. -A majority of college graduates between 28 and 33 are in their high-commitment years and likely to propose. -This period for well-educated men lasts just a bit over five years. The chances men will commit are sightly less when they are thirty-one or thirty-two than when they were between 28 and 30, but they’re still in a high-commitment phase. -Once men reach 33 or 34, the chances they’ll commit start to diminish, but only slightly. Until men reach 37, they remain very good prospects. -After age 38, the chances they will ever marry drop dramatically. -The chances that a man will marry for the first time diminish even more once he reaches 42 or 43. At this point, many men become confirmed bachelors. -Once men reach age 47 to 50 without marrying, the chances they will marry do not disappear, but they drop dramatically." Basically, what this man and his researchers found was that men who reach age 47 who have never been married have entirely different relationships with women than men who have been married before and somehow ended up single by the time they are in their late 40's. The men who have married before that age (and were widowed or divorced) were much more likely to remarry, whereas a man who makes it to age 47 without ever having married is much more likely to remain a bachelor for life. You are dealing with a 47-year-old man who has never been married nor had kids, and when confronted with the commitment conversation gave you vague platitudes that are designed to pull on your emotions and rescuer tendencies: "with your love and faith, some day..." If it really is his "past that is messing [him] up," why do you have to pay for the sins of his former lovers? I think it's much more likely that he doesn't have the same vision for his future as you. Do you really want a man you feel like you have to coerce or tease into marriage? If it actually IS his past that has left him with some kind of emotional scarring or whatever, then that is his work to do on his own. No amount of conjoling or love is going to fix that and it could take years. He didn't give you anything concrete in his answer. Just vague psychological pleas of how your love will save him. Very appealing emotionally but doesn't get you anywhere in terms of a plan or future. If I were you, I would remove the "what if" factor and make a decision based on the assumption that he doesn't want marriage and kids. Then it's up to you whether you can live with what you decide. I would do a lot of soul searching and see if you truly are okay without accomplishing major life goals of marriage and kids (biological or otherwise) in favor of this man. I think a typical person would come to regret or resent this situation over time. So, I think to be on the safe side you have to assume that this will never happen with this man and act from that space. 1
JuneL Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 I do think it’s cruel for him to keep misleading you, when he knows very clearly how much you want marriage and kids. Do you want to sacrifice your dreams to be with such a man? Plus, there is no guarantee you’ll be together forever. He might get tired at your kids and marriage talk and find a replacement and leave you when you are already 38-40. 1
elaine567 Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 I do think it’s cruel for him to keep misleading you, when he knows very clearly how much you want marriage and kids. Do you want to sacrifice your dreams to be with such a man? Plus, there is no guarantee you’ll be together forever. He might get tired at your kids and marriage talk and find a replacement and leave you when you are already 38-40. It is not uncommon for some men to use up the last years of a woman's fertility and then leave her in the lurch.
Mr. Lucky Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 It is not uncommon for some men to use up the last years of a woman's fertility and then leave her in the lurch. No man "uses up" a woman's fertility she doesn't voluntarily surrender to him. The OP isn't being held at gunpoint, she's choosing to stay with a man who's history and current inaction plainly indicate he's not interested in the same things she is. Twelve months into the relationship, she had all the info she needed to make an honest assessment of his marital intentions - and act on it. That she's still in the same place two years later isn't a reflection on him... Mr. Lucky
elaine567 Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) That would be fair if he wasn't dangling the carrot of "help me to get there..." Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Redact quote of immediately preceding post
Mr. Lucky Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 Self-serving people are going to offer every excuse, incentive and rationalization in the book. I don't fault the OP, anyone can get reeled in initially, happens to all of us. But after 3 years, she has all the "truth" she needs to make a decision. At some point, this stops being about his ability to convince and becomes more about her need to believe... Mr. Lucky 1
elaine567 Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Self-serving people are going to offer every excuse, incentive and rationalization in the book. I don't fault the OP, anyone can get reeled in initially, happens to all of us.<snip> I agree, 3 years and counting of believing this nonsense is on her. Edited January 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Truncate quote
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