elaine567 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 He went on a rant about my ‘backwards culture’ does not belong in British society, he should have known better then to get involved with a Muslim girl and that my family should have stayed in Pakistan bla bla. That is because he assumed, like many who are not aware of the power of Islam and how far reaching it is into the lives of Muslims, that as you were "westernised" and educated, then Islam and the Pakistani culture would have little to do with you living in the UK in 2018. But he was very wrong. Christianity in the UK is a very much take it or leave it religion for many who call themselves Christians. Christians can show up for christenings, weddings and funerals, sing carols at Christmas and have a passing acquaintance with the 10 commandments and that is about it. It rarely interferes with personal lives, therefore I guess the assumption is that Islam is the same...
eleanorrigby Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) I fell for a British Sikh guy as a teen. We really wanted to date. But I’m lucky, because after only a week of talking about it and him hinting to his parents about me, we dropped the idea. Couldn’t have worked. Different race, religion, culture.... everything. The only thing we had in common is that we were hot for each other. I’m very grateful that he had the sense to quash the whole thing before we were both head over heels. I think this guy deserves a heartfelt apology from you before a complete blocking. He should know that you know that you did use him to a certain extent and that this all was a terrible idea on your part, and that you have no plans to do it again. I ended up marrying someone from a different race and culture after all, but there was no hardline like religion keeping us apart. Some lines are just too hard to cross. Edited January 2, 2019 by eleanorrigby
Author Rockingaround Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 That is because he assumed, like many who are not aware of the power of Islam and how far reaching it is into the lives of Muslims, that as you were "westernised" and educated, then Islam and the Pakistani culture would have little to do with you living in the UK in 2018. But he was very wrong. Christianity in the UK is a very much take it or leave it religion for many who call themselves Christians. Christians can show up for christenings, weddings and funerals, sing carols at Christmas and have a passing acquaintance with the 10 commandments and that is about it. It rarely interferes with personal lives, therefore I guess the assumption is that Islam is the same... I am westernised, I was born and raised in the UK and consider myself to be British. However, both my parents were born in Pakistan. My heritage and culture is extremely important to me. My parents are traditional and expect me to marry within my own race - I have no choice in the matter unless I want to bring humiliation and embarrassment to my conservative family who won't be able to handle it. As for this guy I met, I was only attracted to him sexually and wanted to let my hair down at uni. This dragged on because it was exciting and I like his company. I just wanted to cut loose, away from all the pressure.
Garcon1986 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 Just remember to not make this a habit since you have an extremely strict family.
grays Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I am westernised, I was born and raised in the UK and consider myself to be British. However, both my parents were born in Pakistan. My heritage and culture is extremely important to me. My parents are traditional and expect me to marry within my own race - I have no choice in the matter unless I want to bring humiliation and embarrassment to my conservative family who won't be able to handle it. As for this guy I met, I was only attracted to him sexually and wanted to let my hair down at uni. This dragged on because it was exciting and I like his company. I just wanted to cut loose, away from all the pressure. If I was him, I probably would’ve seen you letting your hair down and assumed that meant that you weren’t so traditional after all. I get why he’d be hurt. He’s attached to you and I’m sure it feels to him that you’ve decided that some abstract principle is more important to you than he is, which is obviously true. He clearly likes you a lot more than you like him. Maybe some of his hurt is due to the fact that it doesn’t seem like breaking his heart is any big deal to you. You seem very matter of fact about it. I’m curious about whether you will demand this of your children. It seems like not only are you willing to do this because your family has these values but also because you do. That seems very inconsistent with letting your hair down and I bet he feels that disconnect and was thrown off by it. 2
Author Rockingaround Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 Just remember to not make this a habit since you have an extremely strict family. I’m back at home now, living with my parents. So I’m back to being a good Pakistani Muslim girl.
GoreSP Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I am westernised, I was born and raised in the UK and consider myself to be British. However, both my parents were born in Pakistan. My heritage and culture is extremely important to me. My parents are traditional and expect me to marry within my own race - I have no choice in the matter unless I want to bring humiliation and embarrassment to my conservative family who won't be able to handle it. As for this guy I met, I was only attracted to him sexually and wanted to let my hair down at uni. This dragged on because it was exciting and I like his company. I just wanted to cut loose, away from all the pressure. And someone got hurt in the process. It happens. Hopefully you both learn from this.
Author Rockingaround Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 If I was him, I probably would’ve seen you letting your hair down and assumed that meant that you weren’t so traditional after all. I get why he’d be hurt. He’s attached to you and I’m sure it feels to him that you’ve decided that some abstract principle is more important to you than he is, which is obviously true. He clearly likes you a lot more than you like him. Maybe some of his hurt is due to the fact that it doesn’t seem like breaking his heart is any big deal to you. You seem very matter of fact about it. I’m curious about whether you will demand this of your children. It seems like not only are you willing to do this because your family has these values but also because you do. That seems very inconsistent with letting your hair down and I bet he feels that disconnect and was thrown off by it. I'm a muslim and believe in the basic morals of religion and have been surrounded by western culture my entire life. Saying that, I don’t drink or smoke but I love boys. The thing is, my parents are very strict Pakistanis, although I can do what I want outside of the home. I went to university in a different town, so my parents don't know about my life there. So when I started uni, I did whatever the hell I wanted. I felt a lot more freedom to be who I want to be. I made out with a couple of guys in the first year. When it comes to anything remotely involving gender mixing Pakistani culture is backwards af. So basically I was living a double life. But I must admit at times I do feel guilty about it. It’s between me and god. Islam is a beautiful religion, if it’s in your heart. Often, it can restrict women if it is forced upon them. And religion is something that should always be in the heart, not forced onto someone. You don’t “inherit” religion off your parents, it’s a personal belief. As for my children, I would understand them a lot better than my parents since I was born in western culture. My father and mother sort to escape the poverty of living in Pakistan for opportunities in life afforded by living in the UK. They gave me a good education in this country yet they still expect me to observe the tribal traditions of a country they left behind. As much as I don't like my parents views, i can’t disrespect them. They are still my parents.
alphamale Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I’m back at home now, living with my parents. So I’m back to being a good Pakistani Muslim girl. are you a virgin?
grays Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I think of myself as pretty open minded but maybe not. I can’t imagine allowing my parents to dictate or have any say in who I could love. And I hope my children would follow their own hearts if I was trying to make demands like that on them.
Author Rockingaround Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) are you a virgin? I’m a virgin. However, I seem to be the most promiscuous virgin I know. I've gone so far (done practically everything else) and come so close many times to sex, showing I've got the will power to stop myself. I feel I shouldn't be losing my virginity to somebody that I'm not in love with. I think of myself as pretty open minded but maybe not. I can’t imagine allowing my parents to dictate or have any say in who I could love. And I hope my children would follow their own hearts if I was trying to make demands like that on them. Having all of these guidelines is overwhelming at times. Being told who you can and can't date, who you can and can't hang around with and what you can and can't do. I used to think it was because they want to protect us. Perhaps a fraction of that remains that way, however I realise now that their own upbringing has caused them to impose these restrictions on us, and it's more about what they think is acceptable. Edited January 2, 2019 by Rockingaround
Garcon1986 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Would your parents never ever consider if your future date had objectively good things good for him (job, kind, mild mannered, willing to negotiate)? They want you to marry a man who only meets their expectations? This is one step short of a classic arranged marriage, with the potential risk of you being severely unhappy down the road when you are 37?
alphamale Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Would your parents never ever consider if your future date had objectively good things good for him (job, kind, mild mannered, willing to negotiate)? They want you to marry a man who only meets their expectations? This is one step short of a classic arranged marriage, with the potential risk of you being severely unhappy down the road when you are 37? actually Garcon, the success rate of arranged marriages is around 90% whereas the success rate of American love marriages is lower than 50%
Garcon1986 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 I agree with that statistic, I think the OP is in England though? I just want the OP to be allowed to consider her happiness in the equation. Indian/ Pakistani stories of brides being killed, or mutilated with acid/ beat up for wanting to seek out love are unacceptable in the modern world.
stillafool Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 I agree with that statistic, I think the OP is in England though? I just want the OP to be allowed to consider her happiness in the equation. Indian/ Pakistani stories of brides being killed, or mutilated with acid/ beat up for wanting to seek out love are unacceptable in the modern world. My gawd how awful!
snowboy91 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 actually Garcon, the success rate of arranged marriages is around 90% whereas the success rate of American love marriages is lower than 50% How do you define "success"? By staying together for life? I think if we defined the success of a marriage by whether both people are actually happy in the marriage the numbers might look very different. 2
alphamale Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 How do you define "success"? not getting divorced
Author Rockingaround Posted January 3, 2019 Author Posted January 3, 2019 Would your parents never ever consider if your future date had objectively good things good for him (job, kind, mild mannered, willing to negotiate)? They want you to marry a man who only meets their expectations? This is one step short of a classic arranged marriage, with the potential risk of you being severely unhappy down the road when you are 37? I agree with that statistic, I think the OP is in England though? I just want the OP to be allowed to consider her happiness in the equation. Indian/ Pakistani stories of brides being killed, or mutilated with acid/ beat up for wanting to seek out love are unacceptable in the modern world. A lot of people seem to confuse forced marriage with arranged marriage. An arranged marriage is where the family help you locate a potential spouse and arranges everything, to meet the family and get to know each other etc, it's a much more family orientated event. The girl still has the final say though. A forced marriage is where the parents force you to marry someone you don't want to, I think this is a pretty rare thing in the UK now but I'm sure there are still some cases of it happening. Each Pakistani is different, each Pakistani family is different. Some may be very strict, some very liberal, and a lot will fall somewhere in the middle. A Pakistani from a traditional family isn't allowed to marry another South Asian Muslim, let alone a white person. actually Garcon, the success rate of arranged marriages is around 90% whereas the success rate of American love marriages is lower than 50% I’d say about majority of couples in the world do not marry out of love. Marrying for love is western. Arranged marriages are pretty cool, I've seen some relatives marry this way and it's worked out beautifully for them as they are so compatible for each other. If my family found someone like that for me, I'd certainly give it go, because at the end of the day, they're only thinking about my best interests. It's not like they're trying to marry me off in haste, the process takes ages and the couple actually get to know one another before going ahead with marriage. I will only marry a Pakistani man, out of love and respect for my parents.
Gillys Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) I've been on the receiving end of this. My ex is a Muslim female who aggressively pursued me (another female). I was hesitant to date her due to culture and she was my best friend. But she assured me that she was gay, that no matter who she dated her parents would never approve and she has accepted a long time ago that she would eventually have to leave her family behind to be happy. We dated a little over a year. I fell completely in love, when things got serious and I started trying to plan a little (what city I needed to apply for jobs in after grad school so we could be together) she dumped me out of no where. She told me "I told you from the beginning this wasn't a long term thing". Keep in mind she would bring up marriage, what kind of house she wanted with me and adopting kids all the time. Over 2 years later and I still feel a little broken and used after that one (first love pains). I can tell you, after a few weeks all I wanted was a honest heartfelt apology and not led on for months post BU while she got comfortable with someone else (I had not heard of NC at the time). All I got was a "you saw this coming" apology "get over it". Mine moved on quick to another Muslim man she met online a few weeks after dumping me (I assume there may have been overlap so that hurts too). Even though they are from a different sect, she is marrying him this summer, she emailed me on NYE to inform me of this... Even though I found out online weeks ago. Another thing that still stings is she said he was worth losing her family over and I was just a time filler. A heartfelt apology and not to be dragged along for months while she got comfortable with someone else is all I wanted. Even to this day, if I got a heartfelt apology I prob could be friends with her again now that the strong emotions of heartbreak are gone. Edited January 3, 2019 by Gillys
stillafool Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Sorry Gillys, she sounds like a terrible person. She did you a favor by marrying the other guy. You can do so much better.
frigginlost Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 I was actually on the side of the guy when I first started reading this thread. I kind of felt like he got the shaft in the deal. But having learned that the OP is still a virgin, my take on the predicament has changed. The guy was told from the word go that it was not going to be forever. The OP did not sleep with the guy and that should have been a very big indicator that this relationship was not what he was thinking it was. The OP has been honest with him. OP, you need to continue to block and never interact with him again. He eventually will get over the pain, but any interaction with you is going to delay his moving on.
Author Rockingaround Posted January 3, 2019 Author Posted January 3, 2019 Many Pakistani girls go for the "forbidden" white guys/girls to get some excitement. That leads to disappointment and breakups when Pakistani girls have to be married off to men from their own race. A white guy is always a Pakistani girl's bit on the side before she gets married, unless she is from a progressive family who may accept a white guy. But those forward-thinking families are rare nowadays. Most of them are still traditional and will pressurise Pakistani girls into marrying within their own race. Basically this is all evidence of the fact that girls want what they can't have. Hence they end up leading double lives and showing different sides of themselves to their friends or to their families. It is actually very important for me I would only ever date/bang a white guy. I have had it drummed into me if i bring an white or a black home, I will be thrown out by my parents. I've been on the receiving end of this. My ex is a Muslim female who aggressively pursued me (another female). I was hesitant to date her due to culture and she was my best friend. But she assured me that she was gay, that no matter who she dated her parents would never approve and she has accepted a long time ago that she would eventually have to leave her family behind to be happy. I’m sorry to hear about that. But I think there’s a chance that your ex did love you and meant those things at the time. She left you for the guy because even if he is from a different sect, she can walk down the street with him holding hands, with no one to judge her. Telling anyone within the family or the muslim community that she liked girls would be social suicide and she would be treated as someone with an incurable highly infectious disease. I know for sure that if I was gay the community would make my life a living hell and my parents would disown me.
Gillys Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 I’m sorry to hear about that. But I think there’s a chance that your ex did love you and meant those things at the time. She left you for the guy because even if he is from a different sect, she can walk down the street with him holding hands, with no one to judge her. Telling anyone within the family or the muslim community that she liked girls would be social suicide and she would be treated as someone with an incurable highly infectious disease. I know for sure that if I was gay the community would make my life a living hell and my parents would disown me. My ex actually did tell a few of her cousins about me near the end. I thought she was getting excited about where the relationship was going as she began telling more people about us. However, after visiting her cousins out of town and telling them, i was dumped less than a week later via text. (keep in mind the text came 1 hr prior to saying how much she loved me). She said her cousins called me an "indulgent temptation" and that her love was merely infatuation and couldnt be real. They told her to break up with me. As for your ex, if you truly loved him, give him a heartfelt apology (if you think he deserves one. he may have lost that card with his racist comments about your culture and harassing you from different numbers) but then tell him you can't talk anymore and that if he cares about you, he'll respect your wishes. My ex told me she didn't want to speak to me anymore once she moved after graduation. We didnt speak or acknowledge each other for over 2 years. We spoke (exchanged 1 short email back and forth) for the first time this past week and that's it. She told me her wishes/boundaries before she left in 2016 and I respected them. If your guy is mature maybe he'll do the same. If not, dont reply back to his messages from the unblocked numbers. Youre not doing him any favors by engaging. And please dont breadcrumb him, breadcrumbs give false hope and may lead to him to feel like he got his heart ripped out all over again.
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