goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) I went on a date with this man on Wednesday. We’re both 40s and divorced with no children. Date went great, we kissed, he said several times that we should meet again. Even talked about the future and seems serious about finding a real relationship. The next day he told me he really enjoyed our date and asked me again when are we meeting - to which I responded “weekend maybe?”, thinking we should meet before the New Years Eve (next Monday) as you don’t spend that day with someone you just met. Now... the problem is he won’t be assertive and make concrete plans and propose a day / place. It’s Saturday and I’m here like a fool with no plans cause I foolishly thought he’d made plans. He mentioned during the date that one of his bad traits is that he’s “lazy”. As I can get lazy too I didn’t take it that seriously... now I’m thinking maybe he’s lazy in courtship and expects the woman to take initiative? Which would be weird as that’s not usual in my country for the first few dates. Even for our first date he did the same thing - he kept asking when are we meeting until I provided a day I was available, and also suggested a restaurant/bar by my house. I’m starting to think he doesn’t know how to court a woman. He moved to this country with his mom when he was 15 as his parents divorced in another country. Maybe he didn’t have a paternal figure in the country to figure how you date here? His ex wife was a foreigner... maybe only a foreigner would take a man who is not assertive in courtship here? I’m used to men making a lot of effort in the first 3-4 dates, clearly trying to swipe me off my feet, good thought out restaurants, concerts, shows, etc., so I’m finding his lack of decisiveness off putting. I’d be glad if he just booked... anything! In any case... this seemed promising, I liked him a lot and like him otherwise. But now it’s taking me longer to reply to his texts as I’m starting to be turned off by his lack of assertiveness in setting up a second date. Although he texts at least once daily. What should I say to him? I’d prefer not to give up on him or cut him off but I feel I’m going to soon text back something passive aggressive and emotional and screw things up. Is there a “good” non confrontational way to make him get it without being rude or emotional or hurt his feelings? I know people will say he won’t change and will always be lazy.. but truth is I’m not 100% sure that’s his problem. Who knows maybe he had previous commitments or dates for the weekend... in which case he could have set up a date for next week and it would be fine. What I don’t like is this thing in the air and no plans set up. Thanks everyone! ps: he has a very stable and lucrative job so I know he’s not lazy in all areas Edited December 30, 2018 by goth-gal
mortensorchid Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 I don't like the sounds of this. A man who wants to see you again will ask a specific question in this situation ("I want to see you again, can we get together next weekend?", "I had a good time, can we do this again on Friday?", etc.) and will not give vague answers. One guy I went out with recently said to me, even though we had a good time during the time we were together, that he travels a lot for his job, he's living in his own little world half the time, etc. I knew then that I wouldn't be hearing from him again, he said by his actions that he wasn't going to make time for me no matter how he did or didn't feel about me. And here it is two months later, haven't heard a peep. I also years ago (very long story) was with this man who claimed he didn't have time for anything because of this this and this, and when I told him that his former gf who had broken up with him many years ago who he was still depressed about was marrying soon he hit the roof and did he have time to start calling her and begging for her to take him back! Another situation - just had a big fight with my Mom about my spending habits. I said there will always be money for her manicures and the countless holiday decorations around the house every year, but I can't do this or that. She said her nails are very important to her as are the holiday decorations, I said that's fine but they are not to me and that's that, we must agree to disagree. But she will not because she's entitled and doesn't have one ounce of compromise in her. Life's complicated, but communication does not have to be. Fact.
I'veseenbetterlol Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Lets say he isn't lazy in life, but lazy in relationships. Do you really want a man who makes little or no effort? I was once willing to settle for a lazy dude (lazy all around) because I liked him. It isn't worth the trouble and if he doesn't make an effort now, he never will. If he doesn't invite you out, make your own plans or even better set a date with another guy.
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 Yeah mortensorchid he keeps saying the I want to see you again but doesn’t say the specific day... I feel he has the tendency to leave it in my court and I’m not sure why. At the same time... we met for the first time 3-4 days ago, and it’s the holidays. Maybe I’m over reacting? Maybe it’ll change a bit after the New Years? I guess I’m just used to men who set firm plans and ask specific questions. On the other hand he was talking about important things, the future, family... and a lot of other men don’t do that voluntarily.
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 I’m conflicted about it to be honest I'veseenbetterlol I’m not into being active 24/7 either ie. Depends on what he’s lazy. All I wanted was for him to set up the first 4-5 dates more decisively. You’re right though, I should make my own plans and not wait for him apparently. But I still don’t know how to react to his texts now... Yesterday he wrote commenting about something on my profile ie. I mean... what is this about? Just set a day for a date so I have something to look forward to. Anyone can help me on how to respond and communicate?
Malin889 Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 So you don’t want to meet on New Years Eve (which is tomorrow), right? Why don’t you text him saying you were going to go out and get a drink and watch football today, would he want to meet up with you? Make it casual, find a sports bar near you.
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 I could. I was trying to avoid me proposing something as I wanted him to be a little more masculine and decisive... But having expectations like that might be silly... I mean, does it really matter in the end? That’s what I have to reflect about... after all, it didn’t work with the other “decisive” men... He again replied today with chit chat about current world events... seems like I’ll need a lot of patience with this one So you don’t want to meet on New Years Eve (which is tomorrow), right? Why don’t you text him saying you were going to go out and get a drink and watch football today, would he want to meet up with you? Make it casual, find a sports bar near you.
Cersei Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 I could. I was trying to avoid me proposing something as I wanted him to be a little more masculine and decisive... But having expectations like that might be silly... I mean, does it really matter in the end? That’s what I have to reflect about... after all, it didn’t work with the other “decisive” men... He again replied today with chit chat about current world events... seems like I’ll need a lot of patience with this one You won't change the way he is. I think you either need to initiate a meet up yourself or tell him adios! 1
Malin889 Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 I could. I was trying to avoid me proposing something as I wanted him to be a little more masculine and decisive... But having expectations like that might be silly... I mean, does it really matter in the end? That’s what I have to reflect about... after all, it didn’t work with the other “decisive” men... He again replied today with chit chat about current world events... seems like I’ll need a lot of patience with this one Don’t reply with chit chat; say you are getting ready to go out, would he want to meet up for a drink in a few hours?
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 I did already My sis said instead of me being the “man” and proposing a date, I can simply tell him next time he asks - hey, propose a time/day and I’ll see if it works for me. After all he has a job and I’m looking for one so I have much more time available now. Don’t reply with chit chat; say you are getting ready to go out, would he want to meet up for a drink in a few hours?
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 You’re right Thing is I do like him otherwise. You won't change the way he is. I think you either need to initiate a meet up yourself or tell him adios!
Lotsgoingon Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Your sister is right. But first, the lazy comment is a serious serious red flag. Why? Because people don't tell romantic interests that they are "lazy" on a first date ... unless they are totally socially inept ... or seriously, severely lazy. I LOVE to chill ... Love to watch crime shows and sit around ... and I wouldn't think of calling myself lazy. I have two close friends who used the "lazy" word to describe themselves ... I objected both times ... And you know what? Turns out, in time I concluded they were right. They are both truly, truly lazy and passive ... and miss all kinds of opportunities to make their lives better. It's one thing to seek and fail ... seek a goal and not reach the goal. These folks just don't act. BTW, both of these self-described lazy friends have enormous talents that I've seen them squander by failing to take some small action. And a man too lazy to ask a woman out on a specific date--after the woman expresses interest--that's high-level, outer galaxy laziness. Not normal behavior at all--especially for someone in their 40s. Immigration has nothing to do with this. So hear his words. Trust his words. If he tells you he's lazy, don't ignore that or try to talk around it. If lazy isn't the right word for this guy, then he's socially inept or really insecure ... or ... secretly attached to someone else and that's why he's so unclear about firming up date plans. I know all kinds of shy people, people with social anxiety and serious fears ... And I don't think any of them would be as passive as this guy. Now, sounds like you like him enough to go out again. You can take the initiative to set up something ... But ... when you meet ... at the start, middle or end, you need to look him in the eye and make clear this "are we meeting" crap ain't gonna work. Tell him you expect him to propose a specific date and time and to follow through. If he can't do that, tell him you're not interested. Telling him this early really sets the expectations ... He'll either respond positively or slink back to his lazy self. (My bet unfortunately is that he'll still be lazy in setting a date, but that's a guess.) Don't run from this ... Put it out there. It's OK to set up the next meeting, but ... when you him, make your expectations clear if you want any chance for this to work. You don't need to be afraid in being direct with him because if he doesn't change this pattern, things literally cannot work ... So there's no risk here. Good luck. 1
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 Lotsgoingon Thank you so much for the thoughtful and perfect advice Very useful and I think that’s exactly what I will do. On the other hand my sis just said instead of saying I want this or that, I should first determine if there’s potential at all there.
preraph Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Look, all this man wants to do is be, as he said, lazy and not date and just come over and have sex and get fed. You've been forewarned. You have that information. If that's not you, why continue?
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 He actually doesn’t seem to be the let’s just have sex type... he talked about values, forming a family, maybe moving to a country we’re both connected with, and the big stuff. I get it though that he’s prob not that kind of guy that takes you on exciting dates i.e. But I’ve had that, and where did it lead me? So far not to a meaningful relationship. Look, all this man wants to do is be, as he said, lazy and not date and just come over and have sex and get fed. You've been forewarned. You have that information. If that's not you, why continue?
smackie9 Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 If you don't mind being the aggressor, then go for it, nothing wrong with that. Don't expect him to be the type to initiate. There are no tricks to make him do otherwise. . 1
preraph Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Well, as long as you would be happy with a couch potato, you have met your man. Before you go having children with him, though, you'd better find out if he cooks or cleans or babysits and would be a good partner in that way -- or if he truly is what he says, lazy. 1
Lotsgoingon Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 On the other hand my sis just said instead of saying I want this or that, I should first determine if there’s potential at all there. I see sister's point ... You can go out again ... and make the judgment during the date or at the end of the date about whether you still have interest in this guy. If no interest, no need to spell out expectations. On the other hand, if you go see him and put this off, that question about his laziness and passivity may very well hang over the dinner, distracting you and diverting your attention. And if you have a side of you that is terrified at "confrontation"--though spelling out expectations is NOT in my view confrontation but more just speaking honestly--you might want to "make" yourself speak up early. Sometimes I want to just go with the flow of things ... but I've learned to make myself speak up ... Invariably doing so helps things along ... Good luck. I'd love to hear an update after (if) you see him again. 2
Author goth-gal Posted December 30, 2018 Author Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) Thank you Lotsgoingon you make a lot of sense and I appreciate your candid words. You and others are right, I for sure have to at least ask about the laziness and understand what it means. I also have to do some thinking and see if I'd be okay with being (mostly?) "in charge"... as I usually already do that when I'm working. The family part is also important for sure... he seems to make good money (finance) but present parents is something I care about. Thank you for the wishes Lotsgoingon, I hope it doesn't take too long to see him again lol, and if so I will come back with feedback Thanks everyone, I loved each of your posts and advice - made me think and extremely helpful! Gotta love LS and all of you! Edited December 30, 2018 by goth-gal
BettyDraper Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 If you want an assertive man who makes plans, then you aren't going to be happy with this man for long. I don't blame you for that preference-we women like to courted by men who are confident enough to take charge. It's still early so there is no reason why you cannot easily cut your losses and move on. 1
I'veseenbetterlol Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Your sister is right. But first, the lazy comment is a serious serious red flag. Why? Because people don't tell romantic interests that they are "lazy" on a first date ... unless they are totally socially inept ... or seriously, severely lazy. I agree, I can be lazy sometimes, but I never tell someone that when I start dating them. This can also be used as an excuse later if the relationship continues. If he gets upset, he can just say "well I did tell you I was lazy". Or def he is just lazy. Either way this doesn't make for a good partner.
gaius Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 Guys say I'm lazy, I'm busy, that kind of thing often when they're not really looking to take it further and don't want to hurt your feelings. He's probably in a place where he likes you as a text/phone buddy but isn't tickled by anything more.
Author goth-gal Posted December 31, 2018 Author Posted December 31, 2018 I see where you're coming from but there are two things here: 1. People are usually incredibly open to me... I think I am really friendly and everyone can pour their hearts and say things they normally wouldn't. I get things from people that most wouldn't believe - both in personal and professional relationships. 2. This guy is trying to determine compatibility for a LTR... he had asked me what my flaws were too. Maybe his first marriage ended because his ex thought we was lazy in some way and he wanted to be open about what he thinks his flaws are. It was my mistake not to dive more into it and just assume I understand what he meant by that. I will ask when I have a chance. Guys say I'm lazy, I'm busy, that kind of thing often when they're not really looking to take it further and don't want to hurt your feelings. He's probably in a place where he likes you as a text/phone buddy but isn't tickled by anything more.
Author goth-gal Posted December 31, 2018 Author Posted December 31, 2018 Well after the message above I lost emotional control and decided he’s prob not interested and sent him a goodbye text out of nowhere. Not sure what I was thinking. I prob lost a good thing for no good reason I’ll prob take a break from LS. I think some people have to be more thoughtful on their responses here. Thanks guys. 1
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