Can we change and agree on finances?

[WMGuy]

For over a year now, my wife has been purchasing items from Fingerhut because of the financing and spending way to much money on them. The first item was a flat panel tv for $550 that could have been purchased for $300 or less locally. She didn’t/still doesn’t believe that we are capable of saving up enough money to purchase things like this. She also argued that the tv she bought is so much different and better than what I compared it to. They are not different and have the same features.

 

Since then, I don’t know all what she has purchased from there aside from shoes and a few other things in that price range.

 

Recently, My wife bought a luggage set and my Christmas from Fingerhut. I don’t know what shipping cost was, but I do know they charge nicely for shipping. The luggage was $280 and is identical to a set on Amazon for $120 with free shipping. My gift, a smart watch, was $440 plus shipping and can be purchased at Best Buy for $200.

 

When I found out about my watch, I asked her to return it and just get me something cheaper. When she handed me my gift yesterday, she said she didn’t return it and to deal with it.

 

My question is 2 parts:

Should I just open the watch and use it or stand my ground and return it?

Any advice on coming together on budgeting?

 

We have been married for almost 15 years and budgeting and money have almost always been issues we can’t come together on. I started typing up more backstory, but it turned into a novel. We are middle class and she thinks we are as poor as when we struggled making half as much.

 

When I bring up sitting down and creating a budget together, she has numerous reasons why it won’t work and is a waste of time. I don’t want to go all Dave Ramsey, but I think adapting some of his advice would help us. She says that she doesn’t want to live like that.

 

I’m not perfect with money either, but I feel there is a double standard as she is very critical of my spending. For example, I went to the bar with the neighbor guy and spent $20. Me going to the bar or hanging with a friend is rare. She will have dinner and drinks with her friend once a week and go with her to get their nails done every two weeks. Nail nights usually include a second dinner for the week. However, me hanging out it’s the neighbor gets her worked up and telling me how we can’t afford it and the the expenses we can’t pay.

 

Has to much time passed for us to come together on our spending?

[DKT3]

Things like fingerhut are traps, people get hung up on the low monthly installments and fall to realize that they are paying double or sometimes triple the products value. However, the low payments may fit the budget better then spending a chuck of cash up front.

 

I suspect that this is how your wife views it, not spending 200 dollars up front but 15 dollars a month. In those terms it may make sense to her if you guy live more paycheck to paycheck.

[Normm]

Different spending habits such as yours destroy more marriages than sexual infidelity. I've been there.

[Wallysbears]

Separate finances?

 

See a financial advisor?

[WMGuy]

We have separate finances. Tried before, but she would bounce checks a lot so I opened my own account.

 

No financial advisor. Maybe something to look into. I have considered buying financial peace university and just telling her when the classes are. I don’t think she would go. I tried this with a counselor I was seeing and she refused to come.

 

I know money is a big deciding factor with divorce. I’m amazed how people think divorce will solve that because it ruins people financially. I guess the independence appeals to some. Hopefully we can change something.

 

We do live paycheck to paycheck, but I don’t think we need to. That is why I try to bring up budgeting every so often. She does like the payments because she doesn’t believe we can save up even $500. I know we can. I usually do it on my own if there is something I want or just to have an emergancy fund. Very beneficial for car repairs.

Edited December 26, 2018 by WMGuy

[Giraffe-A]

If you haven’t laid down the law be year one, it may be too late to do it now. All this shopping is a stress reliever. Fingerhut seems like a harmless idea but in her head, she actually does feel it’s a cheap way to buy things. Budgets work when two are on board and have a same goal in mind. My sister was this type of spender and thought that by buying this and that at flea markets and fingerhut that they were saving money. She was a hoarder and shopped out of boredom. It wasn’t until her and her hubby decided to really try to buy a house that both worked out a plan to sell all the junk, save, work on their credit scores, and purchase the house. They realized how much more money they had now so they kept budgeting for vacation trips. They have two kids who love reading and running outside so that helped even more.

 

It also helps to write down finances down and keep score. Like, my friends had this idea of buying a car and getting 3 yr notes with a huge car payment to pay it off faster. I got the 6 -yr note with a low payment to not worry about losing my entire paycheck. If I lost my kob, I’d be able to survive on a minimum wage job until I bounced back. I could always use my refunds to throw it all in the principal. Sure enough, their cars were repo’d when they lost a job, or had pending emergencies that had them tap over to their savings and creidit cards.

You really have to be on board with this. You can start with a plan and take an audit of each other’s spending for the entire year of 2018. That seems to be a real eye opener.

[Normm]

I have considered buying financial peace university and just telling her when the classes are. I don’t think she would go. I tried this with a counselor I was seeing and she refused to come.

 

 

What does this even mean?

 

 

I know money is a big deciding factor with divorce. I’m amazed how people think divorce will solve that because it ruins people financially.

 

 

You got this wrong. My exwife would have spent us into bankruptcy. Sure the divorce cost me over $100k in legal fees and I split everything we had, but so what? Took me a few years to recover and now I can save and spend money as I want to- in a much more conservative way than she ever did.

 

 

 

 

We do live paycheck to paycheck, but I don’t think we need to. That is why I try to bring up budgeting every so often

 

 

If you don't even have $500 saved you definitely need a budget. This isn't something to tiptoe around about and bring up "every so often". She's spending money you don't have and you're afraid to talk to her about it and work on a real solution to a very bad problem.

[WMGuy]

What does this even mean?

 

 

 

 

 

You got this wrong. My exwife would have spent us into bankruptcy. Sure the divorce cost me over $100k in legal fees and I split everything we had, but so what? Took me a few years to recover and now I can save and spend money as I want to- in a much more conservative way than she ever did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't even have $500 saved you definitely need a budget. This isn't something to tiptoe around about and bring up "every so often". She's spending money you don't have and you're afraid to talk to her about it and work on a real solution to a very bad problem.

 

1-Financial Peace is a budgeting system or class that teaches couples to work together and win financially. I thought about buying into the in seat class and going by myself and hoping she will decide to join me. I was seeing a counselor for almost a year for some issues of my own. I’ve asked her to join me numerous times for my benefit and I think hers. I’ve also tried to get her into her own because she has very high expectations (possibly unrealistic)from people. Every job she has causes her a ton of stress because she does her job unlike everyone else at work. She has also had some major health changes this past year. She thinks counseling is a waste of money and unhelpful.

 

2-I will admit that my view on this is different than your situation. You must be of a higher income. Most people I know of fight because there really isn’t enough money to go around. They then divorce and live in misery unless they can remarry someone better off than them. I also consider what I would be left with each month if I were to divorce after child support and rent.

 

3-I do have more than $500 saved. My wife doesn’t know about it because, in the past, my wife would do some irresponsible spending and hound me to bail her out. I believe in an emergency fund because not many sudden car repairs are cheap. I would probably have more saved, but for Christmas gifts and other holiday spending. Also, at the end of next month we are taking our first vacation for our anniversary. I have been prepaying the trip with cash. Yes, I do have periods of regrets about booking this trip. Hopefully, the alone time will be good.

 

Thanks for your insights. Sorry I don’t know how to do the multiple quotes very easily yet.

[d0nnivain]

Try writing out all the #s & showing them to her on paper. DO return the overpriced gift.

[Normm]

She thinks counseling is a waste of money

 

 

Now that's ironic.

 

 

You must be of a higher income. Most people I know of fight because there really isn’t enough money to go around.

 

 

It's been my experience that people fight because they let emotions rule their actions and common sense goes out the window. They spend more on attorneys fees and lose more in terms of the limited asset we know as "time" simply because they want to "win" even though they lose more than they gain when it's all over.

 

 

 

I also consider what I would be left with each month if I were to divorce after child support and rent.

 

 

Child support isn't forever.

[Els]

We have separate finances. Tried before, but she would bounce checks a lot so I opened my own account.

 

 

Confusing. Do you have separate finances or do you not?

 

 

If you do have separate finances, the best thing for you to do is probably to just let her learn from her own mistakes. You can't really try to control someone's spending if your finances are completely separate, it won't go over well. Generally the basic law of economics suffices as "control" - they run out of money.

 

 

That being said, if you've had completely separate finances for over a year and she's as bad with money as you suggest... how is it that she still HAS money to spend? Is she accruing credit card debt? Or can she actually afford her own expenses with her own pay, you just disagree with the expenses?

[brigit87]

For over a year now, my wife has been purchasing items from Fingerhut because of the financing and spending way to much money on them. The first item was a flat panel tv for $550 that could have been purchased for $300 or less locally. She didn’t/still doesn’t believe that we are capable of saving up enough money to purchase things like this. She also argued that the tv she bought is so much different and better than what I compared it to. They are not different and have the same features.

 

Since then, I don’t know all what she has purchased from there aside from shoes and a few other things in that price range.

 

Recently, My wife bought a luggage set and my Christmas from Fingerhut. I don’t know what shipping cost was, but I do know they charge nicely for shipping. The luggage was $280 and is identical to a set on Amazon for $120 with free shipping. My gift, a smart watch, was $440 plus shipping and can be purchased at Best Buy for $200.

 

When I found out about my watch, I asked her to return it and just get me something cheaper. When she handed me my gift yesterday, she said she didn’t return it and to deal with it.

 

My question is 2 parts:

Should I just open the watch and use it or stand my ground and return it?

Any advice on coming together on budgeting?

 

We have been married for almost 15 years and budgeting and money have almost always been issues we can’t come together on. I started typing up more backstory, but it turned into a novel. We are middle class and she thinks we are as poor as when we struggled making half as much.

 

When I bring up sitting down and creating a budget together, she has numerous reasons why it won’t work and is a waste of time. I don’t want to go all Dave Ramsey, but I think adapting some of his advice would help us. She says that she doesn’t want to live like that.

 

I’m not perfect with money either, but I feel there is a double standard as she is very critical of my spending. For example, I went to the bar with the neighbor guy and spent $20. Me going to the bar or hanging with a friend is rare. She will have dinner and drinks with her friend once a week and go with her to get their nails done every two weeks. Nail nights usually include a second dinner for the week. However, me hanging out it’s the neighbor gets her worked up and telling me how we can’t afford it and the the expenses we can’t pay.

 

Has to much time passed for us to come together on our spending?

 

Your wife wastes money and doesn't see it as the source of survival. That's a problem. If she works and makes as much as you then you'll need to figure something out.

[Happy Lemming]

Make a budget and stick to it.

 

20% of the household income should go into savings. I read this many years ago, I think it was an article written by the AICPA, but I can't seem to locate it.

 

Take on no revolving debt. If you need a new car, "band-aid" the old one until you have enough cash saved up.

 

Although I've heard about Financial Peace University and the "baby steps", I don't 100% agree with all of the final steps regarding retirement savings. The first few "baby steps" are good ideas and you should get rid of all revolving debt.

 

If she won't attend Financial Peace University or considers it a waste of money, buy the book. I purchased it "used" for my girlfriend for 75 cents!! It collected dust at her apartment, but I tried.

[L0nely]

My question is 2 parts:

Should I just open the watch and use it or stand my ground and return it?

Any advice on coming together on budgeting?

I'd say stand your ground and return it.

Anything more than $100, my husband and i would talk about it to see if it's worth buying and we would shop together for those items. Suggest that with her. She's a keeper if she agrees to do that with you. If she's not willing to do that with you, there's no fixing it because she's a spendy type and can't be changed. In that case, if i were you, i'd pack up and leave. I'd rather pay for child support, barely making enough to support myself, at least i'll only have my own finances to worry about. Also i'll be free to find someone else that have more common grounds in spending as my own. Either way, best of luck to you.

[WMGuy]

Make a budget and stick to it.

 

20% of the household income should go into savings. I read this many years ago, I think it was an article written by the AICPA, but I can't seem to locate it.

 

Take on no revolving debt. If you need a new car, "band-aid" the old one until you have enough cash saved up.

 

Although I've heard about Financial Peace University and the "baby steps", I don't 100% agree with all of the final steps regarding retirement savings. The first few "baby steps" are good ideas and you should get rid of all revolving debt.

 

If she won't attend Financial Peace University or considers it a waste of money, buy the book. I purchased it "used" for my girlfriend for 75 cents!! It collected dust at her apartment, but I tried.

 

I don’t agree on everything Dave Ramsey says either, but he does have some good points and they are simple common sense. A lot of people are like us and don’t have the discipline.

 

I won’t bore you with our car history. We did go many years without payments, but we got so tired of a lot of expensive repairs on cars even after having them checked out and being consistent with maintenance. We didn’t go crazy, so both our car payments is just under $400 per month at 4.?%

 

Revolving debt, I only have $300 on a credit card right now. I don’t know about my wife. I think she has a couple credit cards she won’t tell me about.

 

This past summer, I finally started doing my 401k. Between my contributions and my employers, 13.5% of my income goes in. They match up to 6% and toss in another 1,5% just because.

 

Student loans are the killer.

 

Overall, other than the student loans, I think we are okay just need watch the small stuff. Like eating out, buying shoes, going crazy at the grocery store, and what not. Things we both do.

 

Based on your, and other people’s suggestions, I’m going to go through my spending for the last 2 months to see where I am wasteful and able to cut back. Plus gather up all the household expenses I can to start a budget. Probably estimate what we can save each month. Then approach my wife to see if we can work together like we should. Hopefully set a common goal to work towards. If she says no, I will do what I should be doing with my money. Focus on building my own discipline. Beyond that, I will reserve the thoughts of packing my bags for later for now.

 

Thanks

Edited December 28, 2018 by WMGuy

[Els]

She's HIDING credit cards from you??? There's clearly a bigger problem than just different spending habits going on here...

[preraph]

You need to contact fingerhut and return the watch yourself IF they let you. Ship it back to them. She's being foolish. Tell her you won't accept any more gifts from there or that are above your means.

[Geraltt]

Get a lawyer. Do not tell her that you are doing this.

 

Seriously.

 

You need to protect yourself, your credit rating and your kids from her overspending. Ensure that you have your finances separated because this could ruin you and your kids' financial future. Now, how to do that depends on your jurisdiction so your best bet is to invest a few hundred dollars into legal advice about protecting yourself and your kids.

 

This isn't about divorce; this is simply about protecting your finances.

 

I can't speak to Financial Peace University because I've never heard of it before, but there are lots of free resources available online to help you get things under control.

 

But this isn't a money issue. It's a trust issue, and goes way, way deeper than numbers in a bank account. (Elswyth already mentioned this; perhaps others did too.)

 

And return the watch.

 

This is important too:

 

... just need watch the small stuff. Like eating out, buying shoes, going crazy at the grocery store

 

You've probably heard this a thousand times, so I'm going to say it for the thousandth-plus-one times: it's the small stuff that's the killer. The $3 coffee twice per day, the $8 lunch a few times a week, the dinners out when you're too tired to cook/clean up, the 15th pair of shoes that hardly ever get worn, etc etc etc.

 

You don't have to live a minimalist lifestyle and you don't have to deny yourself simple pleasures; you just have to get a handle on nickel-and-diming yourself to death.

 

Good luck.

[Simple Logic]

I don’t agree on everything Dave Ramsey says either, but he does have some good points and they are simple common sense. A lot of people are like us and don’t have the discipline.

 

I won’t bore you with our car history. We did go many years without payments, but we got so tired of a lot of expensive repairs on cars even after having them checked out and being consistent with maintenance. We didn’t go crazy, so both our car payments is just under $400 per month at 4.?%

 

Revolving debt, I only have $300 on a credit card right now. I don’t know about my wife. I think she has a couple credit cards she won’t tell me about.

 

This past summer, I finally started doing my 401k. Between my contributions and my employers, 13.5% of my income goes in. They match up to 6% and toss in another 1,5% just because.

 

Student loans are the killer.

 

Overall, other than the student loans, I think we are okay just need watch the small stuff. Like eating out, buying shoes, going crazy at the grocery store, and what not. Things we both do.

 

Based on your, and other people’s suggestions, I’m going to go through my spending for the last 2 months to see where I am wasteful and able to cut back. Plus gather up all the household expenses I can to start a budget. Probably estimate what we can save each month. Then approach my wife to see if we can work together like we should. Hopefully set a common goal to work towards. If she says no, I will do what I should be doing with my money. Focus on building my own discipline. Beyond that, I will reserve the thoughts of packing my bags for later for now.

 

Thanks

 

Start by agreeing to cut up the credit cards. Heck, if she bounces checks let them arrest her.

[Normm]

Start by agreeing to cut up the credit cards. Heck, if she bounces checks let them arrest her.

 

 

Criminal defense attorneys are almost if not more expensive than divorce attorneys. He's on the hook for it as long as they're married.

[georgia girl]

Hopefully, what I suggest below is some practical advice you can use:

 

1) As she won’t consider a budget, instead do a profit/loss statement or an income statement (same thing, essentially). Go back three months and plot out by month how much you have collectively brought in. Add those up and that is your gross income. Below that, plot out in individual lines what money you spent. Groceries is a line item, as is car payments, mortgage, student loans, etc. Also include items such as “fun” money and operating money (gas money, lunch money and extra grocery trips). Finally and most Importantly, put in a line that is either “operating capital” or something similar. This is your cash that you want to turn into savings when the month is over. Add the lines together. That is your gross expenses. Subtract expenses from revenue to get you net revenue. If you have negative numbers, you are spending more than you bring in. Keep doing this every month and provide it to her without comment. The goal here is education, not argument. As you both learn to manage money, you position yourself to not let money manage you.

 

2) Determine an amount of cash you think is reasonable to spend weekly on all of your entertainment/fun. When I was single a number of years ago, it was $200. I took that money out at the beginning of the week and forced myself to live on it. It worked out to just under $30 a day. If I had leftover money at the end of the week,’it went into my “impulse spending bucket” and I got to enjoy it.

But, I wouldn’t use my debit or any credit cards - just cash.

 

3) work up a list of all of your revolving and long-term debt. Put in the monthly payments for each and make a plan to pay off the highest interest first. Make a deal that any new debt goes on the list (no judgments but no hiding either) and let her visually see how continuously adding revolving and unsecured debt creates its own cycle. Make a plan with her of how you will use the money you save when you pay off some of your debt - for example save half/spend half.

 

4) Use one of the free online calculators to determine your retirement savings’ needs and do the calculator with her. It will scare both of you but it will also demonstrate how much you have to do to get to a place in the future you both want to be.

 

5) Try going through Dave Ramsey or Suze Ormann’s books together. Make a bargain with her that you won’t harp on her spending if she agrees to read the book or go to the financial classes with you. She gets a little of what she wants - you off her back - and you get her exposed to healthy financial habits.

 

6) Begin to limit expensive Christmas exchanges for both of you. For example, my husband and I exchanged a weekend away for our Christmas. Neither of us wanted/needed anything and it seemed silly to go spending money just to do it. If you are going to exchange, each of you should pick out one thing for the other with a limit of $100 or so. Absolutely do not put Christmas on a credit card.

In future, as you did with vacation, all luxuries should be paid in cash. If you can’t afford to pay cash and it’s not a necessity, don’t buy on credit.

 

7) Shoot to live at least 10% under your means (and this includes only take-home, ignore retirement savings because that’s a necessary expense). Gradually move up to 20%. That figure should keep moving up. When we were renovating our house, we lived at 25% under our means. Now, we are back up to about 40%. No, we are not rich - maybe upper middle class - but we have no debt with the exception of our house, which will be paid off in May - five years early.

 

The goal is not to let money control you but you control it. Good luck!