Dating without sex

[sb6052]

Been dating a girl for a little while now but we've never gone all the way. Met back in late July; after the first month we split up for a month then she re-initiated and we've gotten along well since. On the second and third dates, even before the hiatus, she eagerly did some oral on me (and we even made out a lot on the first), but didn't seem to want me to reciprocate, and we've never gone further than that. Occasionally she does that or some hand stuff but not all the time, and sometimes we don't do anything more than kiss. But we do have a good time when we actually interact, and she seems to genuinely like me despite that, somehow. But since she's so busy with a high level government job with top secret clearance and taking language classes three nights a week, we only often get a chance to meet once a week on the weekend. And it's true we live about 45 minutes apart but it's not that bad..

 

Anyway we do have fun, drinking and making out and sometimes doing cool stuff. But every time I try to lead things toward something further sexually, she kinda stops me from going further. One time when we were really drunk we almost did something, or at least for like a minute but we were to the point where we were sick/had the spins and couldn't continue.... I will say she was married last year for half a year. Is it possible she still has some kind of intimacy issues stemming from that, that prevent her from going all the way yet?

 

Or maybe she doesn't want me to waste her time and to actually prove that I'm legit before she goes down that route, trying to avoid being hurt again by becoming emotionally invested?

 

It's not that I even need sex that much, but I feel bad not doing anything for her.. women have needs too lol. She's 30 but sex drive shouldn't be gone by now. And I do know how to be romantic; I'm not some nice guy little chump b*tch; I've tried both the bold, forward approach (to which she often tells me to slow down) and the softer tender approach. And not to sound like a stuck up douche but I'm a pretty good looking dude too and I know she thinks that, as do most women.

 

I honestly suspected she might not be into this or doing something else on the side (I have two other attractive girls who are kind of into me and its tempting but I haven't done anything with them yet), but I now I really do think she likes me; she constantly cooks me complicated dinners, buys me gifts when traveling for work, pays for many meals even though I try to, gave me her guitar, and texts me what she's doing all the time among other things. Hell, she even wants me to come down to Florida with her for Christmas to meet her family, which I couldn't do since I have other family obligations in another state.

 

But she isn't good at communicating in some ways (her texts lack proper tone and sometimes feel cold, even though in person she's very warm). Last week I mentioned to her that maybe this thing isn't working out since we barely meet and it's not going in any direction and she actually genuinely started crying cause she was afraid I would leave her. I tried to sort of casually bring up the topic about sex (which is only one of the issues) but she seems to skirt the issue and sweep it under the rug, not addressing it directly, saying things like "I'm just shy, ok". Does she just really want the first time to be something super special and meaningful between us? Am I just not pushing the right buttons with her or something?

 

I'll give her until after the New Year, but if this so-called "relationship" doesn't escalate or go anywhere, but remains at this weird plateau where I feel like I'm almost single most of the week, I may just have to end it. I'm used to hanging out longer with gf's, like chilling watching a movie/tv, playing games, just relaxing. Feel like with her we always gotta worry about some impending obligation in the early morning or whatever. I get that her life is super busy and she's trying to move up in her career, but that can't be the only priority. And usually I'm on the other side of this issue, with the girl being more "needy" so to speak.

Edited December 22, 2018 by sb6052

[salparadise]

Do you try to initiate sex when playing around, and she refuses?

 

Are you spending weekends together or do you just go on dates and then go home?

 

I think you need to talk about expectations much more openly. If sex isn't in the cards you need to know, and in the meantime you need to understand why it isn't happening. Six months is a long time for there to be no sex.

 

Have you seen her naked? You would've noticed if she had a pronounced adam's apple, right?

[Simple Logic]

Could be as simple as she doesn’t like sex and that is why she is divorced.

[salparadise]

Could be as simple as she doesn’t like sex and that is why she is divorced.

 

Yea, married for six months seems odd. Makes you wonder if it was consummated. She's giving oral, so I doubt that shyness is the reason it isn't happening. And she's reciprocal in other way such as cooking, giving gifts and paying her share. But something's amiss, obviously, and she avoids any explanation.

 

If it were me, I'd insist on a full explanation... but that would've happened by the second month, not the sixth. I realize that people are different, but with everyone I've dated, all fairly normal, sex happened within a month. The two religious women were among the least reticent. Yea, this is interesting...

[central]

Hmm. To me, this is the equivalent of going to a nice restaurant and only having water. As someone said, you should have a frank discussion, and if the situation does not improve (and STAY improved), then move on. Don't get more deeply involved emotionally, as it will be harder to leave if necessary.

[5x5]

She's 30, divorced and she won't have sex with you.

 

If I were you I would dump her immediately.

[sabaton]

Been dating a girl for a little while now but we've never gone all the way. Met back in late July; after the first month we split up for a month then she re-initiated and we've gotten along well since. On the second and third dates, even before the hiatus, she eagerly did some oral on me (and we even made out a lot on the first), but didn't seem to want me to reciprocate, and we've never gone further than that. <SNIP>

 

Dating without sex is like working construction and breaking your back and not getting paid.

 

How old is she? Is she a virgin? is she from a conservative culture? Does she have low self-esteem? Does she think of herself as ugly?

 

She's 30?

 

Women usually get a surge in their sex drive once they enter their 30s, a woman's body way of telling her that it's time to make babies, and she doesn't want to have sex with you despite that?

 

Listen, she's not sexually attracted to you. She's 30, she's probably looking for a future husband and dad to her future kids, even if she's been married before, the guys that she wants to bang are most likely moving on to younger, more attractive women, and you probably have a good paying job. At that age, there's lots of women who are more than willing to trade sexual attraction for financial security, and that seems to be the case with the woman you are dating.

 

Dump her, delete and forget her phone number, block her from instagram/facebook/twitter/whatever, avoid the places she visits, and go out and meet women who actually want to sleep with you.

 

Yea, married for six months seems odd. Makes you wonder if it was consummated. She's giving oral, so I doubt that shyness is the reason it isn't happening. And she's reciprocal in other way such as cooking, giving gifts and paying her share. But something's amiss, obviously, and she avoids any explanation.

She mostly only performs oral to make him shut up. The oral sex is probably boring and rushed, not something that you'd see someone do in earnest, because of the attraction they feel for that person. Edited December 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Michelle ma Belle]

When there is a lack of communication especially about sex there WILL be problems. You can take that to the bank.

 

Been dating since July and haven't gotten anywhere sexually? I'm sorry but that isn't normal unless it's something you've both agreed to.

 

There is definitely something deeper going on here but until and unless she opens up about it, the writing is on the wall with this one.

 

Good luck.

[sabaton]

When there is a lack of communication especially about sex there WILL be problems. You can take that to the bank.

 

Been dating since July and haven't gotten anywhere sexually? I'm sorry but that isn't normal unless it's something you've both agreed to.

 

There is definitely something deeper going on here but until and unless she opens up about it, the writing is on the wall with this one.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Yeah, pretty much, she's taking him for a ride. OP is probably paying for dates and gifts, giving her attention and validation and all he's getting in return is sexual frustration. Even a 16 year old high school boy gets more action than you, OP, right now with that woman you're dating. Stop paying for dates and stop giving her gifts and lets see how quickly her devotion to Jesus Christ drops.

[smackie9]

Shy my #$$ she's shy....there's nothing about being shy giving BJs lol.

 

Maybe she was a he is still a he? It's possible she is transgender. Remember the Crying Game?

[damni]

Oo, had to rewrite my post as did not realise she was giving you oral.

 

What a strange situation, maybe she is transsexual?

[sb6052]

Wow, there's some pretty out there ideas on here...

 

Dating without sex is like working construction and breaking your back and not getting paid.

 

How old is she? Is she a virgin? is she from a conservative culture? Does she have low self-esteem? Does she think of herself as ugly?

 

She's 30?

 

Women usually get a surge in their sex drive once they enter their 30s, a woman's body way of telling her that it's time to make babies, and she doesn't want to have sex with you despite that?

 

Listen, she's not sexually attracted to you. She's 30, she's probably looking for a future husband and dad to her future kids, even if she's been married before, the guys that she wants to bang are most likely moving on to younger, more attractive women, and you probably have a good paying job. At that age, there's lots of women who are more than willing to trade sexual attraction for financial security, and that seems to be the case with the woman you are dating.

 

Dump her, delete and forget her phone number, block her from instagram/facebook/twitter/whatever, avoid the places she visits, and go out and meet women who actually want to sleep with you.

 

I get it, it would make more sense if these things were the case, but they're not. She makes a lot more money than I do and she knows it. Also I can just tell she is attracted physically.

 

The oral isn't quick and boring, she was very into it, and even wanted to go for a second round after I finished. The first time or two she wasn't that great (overzealous with the teeth) but she got better over time. A lot of times she can't help making out with me heavily, she certainly doesn't act like its some chore, it seems genuine and spontaneous.

 

It could be that she's just not that experienced. Her original culture is more traditional but she grew up in the states for the most part so I don't see how that would affect it much.

 

And no she's definitely not a dude lmao. I've seen her naked and yes like I said we did do something for like a minute, as in penetration. But we were both quite drunk and couldn't make it happen, especially on my end that day (cause she wanted me to beat her in a drinking contest earlier). Also we did some shower stuff, including fingering, but again it stopped short of actual penetrative sex.

 

Also she is pretty hot.. I'd say she's a 7 while I'm the same or maybe 7.5.

 

I also look way younger than my age. Most people think I'm like 24-25. So I doubt it's a case of her looking for younger dudes she wants to screw. I get that a lot of dudes making threads on here are fat pathetic losers who are clueless about their situation but that's not the case with me. I've been around.

 

Yeah, pretty much, she's taking him for a ride. OP is probably paying for dates and gifts, giving her attention and validation and all he's getting in return is sexual frustration. Even a 16 year old high school boy gets more action than you, OP, right now with that woman you're dating. Stop paying for dates and stop giving her gifts and lets see how quickly her devotion to Jesus Christ drops.

 

Dude I said in my original post that she actually pays for more than half the stuff. All in all she probably does more for me than I do for her.

 

 

---

 

Anyway I think a lot of the problems in this relationship stem from the fact that I have a lot more free time than she does, so it feels weird to me. To her she's so busy all the time that she may not notice the (in)frequency of our actual interaction; she acts like a girl on a mission, and that mission has to do with a certain career goal that's coming up soon. She says that after she finds out if she gets a certain job soon, she'll actually start having time for a more normal type of relationship. So I guess I understand that.

 

But... I definitely have to have a good talk with her about things in general. Cause this just ain't normal. I'm hoping it's just cause of unusual circumstances but I'm leaning toward ending it next month.

[carhill]

So, when you come up behind her and kiss her neck and run your hand down her crotch, what happens?

 

Is she kinda aloof and mysterious like Piper Parabo in 'Covert Affairs'? Got all the parts but just never gets to splitting the sheets? I thought of that because the 'top secret' stuff. Like she could tell you then she'd have to kill you.

[sb6052]

Yea, married for six months seems odd. Makes you wonder if it was consummated. She's giving oral, so I doubt that shyness is the reason it isn't happening. And she's reciprocal in other way such as cooking, giving gifts and paying her share. But something's amiss, obviously, and she avoids any explanation.

 

If it were me, I'd insist on a full explanation... but that would've happened by the second month, not the sixth. I realize that people are different, but with everyone I've dated, all fairly normal, sex happened within a month. The two religious women were among the least reticent. Yea, this is interesting...

 

You know that is something I've thought about. She was very tight down there from what I remember. So it's not like she's sleeping around. Also the night that she was down to do something before we got too drunk, she assured me that I wouldn't need a condom... so hmm. I don't think she's a virgin but maybe she just doesn't like sex that much. Maybe there's something dark in her past, like some traumatic experience. I don't know. And if so, how would I begin to initiate a conversation about this?

[Larry56]

Here's what it is.

 

She probably likes you a bit. But not enough. You don't tick enough boxes. Your looks are probably OK for her but you're rating yourself based entirely on that. If she earns more money then you should probably be aware that maybe she wants someone on her financial level (or higher).

 

Maybe she has some trauma but women who really really like a guy will crawl through barbwire and jump through fire to have sex with an alpha they really like. That might not be you because if you're already been forward and sensual then theres nothing more to do.

 

I would actually say at 30 years old most women are looking for a provider morso than a lover. She may be testing to see if you're gonna stick around because at that age women can't just be doing ONS and FWB.

 

However, because she is buying you things and still texting you she probably wants to keep you around for attention. If you actually look younger that's a bad thing, most women like older looking guys. I'm in the same camp (being 32 but looking 27). It doesn't always work to just be 'hot' physically. You need to have a good job to satisfy some 30 year olds.

[Larry56]

Also let me tell you that every woman that made me wait that long for sex never actually liked me that much. I have done what you have done many many times trying to emphathise with the woman and her *stage* or *situation* and life and it always came down to this.

 

I wasn't the one she wanted and she was just stringing me along because she didn't have exactly what she wanted. Sometimes it's just one thing she needs to be happier but unfortunately I don't believe you have it. You can't negotiate with her to want to have sex with you. I would just back off a bit and wait and see what she does...I think if you do that she'll jump into bed with you if you start pulling away.

[Insoc]

It either happens or it doesn't sooner or later, you just know when the time is right. I dunno, that whole chemistry thing. I read it's usually the third date, but I heard stories of it happening on the first date, depends I suppose? I'm new to dating, so I have no idea really.

 

I have met some people online who wanted to have sex right away, one claimed (but again talk is cheap like someone said to me earlier) that they wanted to jump in bed on the first meet-up, this was after 3 days of talking to them., thing you have to remember some people only want sex and that's where it ends, that is you may never see or hear from them again. If you can get over the emotional attachment or want to have a LTR, then maybe that's good, but not for me.

 

I go on dates with females I meet on Match, if there is chemistry I kiss them, last one I kissed a few times and she followed up an gave me equal kisses, was above the norm but supposedly a kiss doesn't mean much anymore, but we didn't have sex. I need more time and i don't want to hook-up or have a one night stand.

[snowboy91]

It's a very interesting situation that doesn't seem right. She's keen to do oral but not sex... but you did very briefly once.

 

I can really only think of two things. One - she is really stressed from her job and language classes, leaving her exhausted when she sees you. She lacks libido but still wants to satisfy you so give you oral and other play that isn't PIV.

 

Or - there is something from her past that is making her shy about PIV. Could be anything.

 

Either way - you're not getting what you need out of this relationship. Like you said, it feels like you're single most of the time so I'd consider having a serious chat with her and working out why it is she seems so shy about it. It's not as if you're attacking her - you're just trying to find out what the deal is.

[Mrs._December]

Anyway I think a lot of the problems in this relationship stem from the fact that I have a lot more free time than she does, so it feels weird to me. To her she's so busy all the time that she may not notice the (in)frequency of our actual interaction; she acts like a girl on a mission, and that mission has to do with a certain career goal that's coming up soon. She says that after she finds out if she gets a certain job soon, she'll actually start having time for a more normal type of relationship. So I guess I understand that.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that she refuses to have PIV sex wtih you.

 

She's in the shower with you. She's giving you oral sex. She's naked with you - yet she simply refuses to have intercourse. Period. If she's got the time to be doing all those things with you, then she also has the time for intercourse. She chooses NOT to.

 

There's a reason for it and it's not your schedules. I'm beginning to suspect that she has an STD she doesn't want you catching or she's got some nasty medical problem she doesn't want to tell you about.

 

She gives you just enough to keep you begging at her heels for more.

 

There's a reason for it.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Mrs._December

[Tamfana]

Maybe she wants to keep it light while she's focusing on her career and she considers intercourse part of a serious relationship.

[salparadise]

You know that is something I've thought about. She was very tight down there from what I remember. So it's not like she's sleeping around. Also the night that she was down to do something before we got too drunk, she assured me that I wouldn't need a condom... so hmm. I don't think she's a virgin but maybe she just doesn't like sex that much. Maybe there's something dark in her past, like some traumatic experience. I don't know.

 

Assuring you that you didn't need to use a condom is a clue. Since the average woman in that age range would be concerned about unintended pregnancy (if not on BC), it tells you that she is well aware that conception is not physically possible.

 

Tightness doesn't tell you anything. Lots of women are tight if not highly aroused, and some still are even when aroused. Contrary to popular myth, tightness is not determined by how often one engages in sex, or childbirth for that matter.

 

What about natural lubrication––does she get wet spontaneously? If she doesn't then it doesn't mean much... but if she does, it means the physiological response exists, and that's pretty much unmistakable.

 

So... I don't think the possibility of post-op transgender has been ruled out. It would explain the reticence toward intercourse and cunnilingus. Appearing feminine, and having a normal looking vagina, is not conclusive. Having a normally functioning vagina would be. But she's not allowing you to explore the functional aspects... everything but that.

 

And if so, how would I begin to initiate a conversation about this?

 

I don't understand why your're reluctant to broach the topic. There are any number of ways... I realize that avoidance in the past makes it feel less comfortable, but you are going to have to address it directly, and you will have to persist when she tries to wiggle away. She's a sharp cookie, and adept with language, so you'll need to control the conversation despite any discomfort.

 

 

You: "Okay sugga, I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable, but I need to talk about the elephant."

Her: "But I don't know what you mean."

You: "Sex. After six months of dating, why are we not having sex?

Her: "But we do have sex... here, let me give you BJ."

You: "Nope. I'm talking intercourse. Why are you avoiding it?"

Her: "I'm just very shy. Here, let me give you BJ!"

You: "Nope. I need the answer––now!"

Her: "Okay, because in my culture good girl only do BJ."

You: "Bullsh*t! Cut the crap. I need to know or I'm going to walk."

Her: "Okay, you have nice walk and when you come back I give you special BJ"

Edited December 23, 2018 by salparadise

[smackie9]

." She was very tight down there from what I remember. So it's not like she's sleeping around".

 

oh my gosh this is such a fable lol.

[sb6052]

Assuring you that you didn't need to use a condom is a clue. Since the average woman in that age range would be concerned about unintended pregnancy (if not on BC), it tells you that she is well aware that conception is not physically possible.

 

Tightness doesn't tell you anything. Lots of women are tight if not highly aroused, and some still are even when aroused. Contrary to popular myth, tightness is not determined by how often one engages in sex, or childbirth for that matter.

 

What about natural lubrication––does she get wet spontaneously? If she doesn't then it doesn't mean much... but if she does, it means the physiological response exists, and that's pretty much unmistakable.

 

So... I don't think the possibility of post-op transgender has been ruled out. It would explain the reticence toward intercourse and cunnilingus. Appearing feminine, and having a normal looking vagina, is not conclusive. Having a normally functioning vagina would be. But she's not allowing you to explore the functional aspects... everything but that.

 

I don't understand why your're reluctant to broach the topic. There are any number of ways... I realize that avoidance in the past makes it feel less comfortable, but you are going to have to address it directly, and you will have to persist when she tries to wiggle away. She's a sharp cookie, and adept with language, so you'll need to control the conversation despite any discomfort.

 

LOL. Yeah it's getting to the point where this may actually happen. It's not even only due to the sexual issue but I'm starting to see other... differences and potential problems. So after the New Year I'm gonna do one last hard assessment and then make a decisive move with this.

 

Regarding arousal though, yeah that one night when we were both totally naked, from what I recall she was wet. And another more recent occasion when we were making out heavily and I was going for the very y'know romantic tender kind of approach, I could even feel that through the panties. But I think by that time I had almost given up on trying to move it further on my own since by then I was so conditioned to think that she would stop me, so I like didn't try to go further, kind of leaving it in her hands if she wanted to do that, at least give me some sign. I may have even been able to do something then, but I didn't go for it lol. After a certain number of times it just doesn't feel right to keep trying I guess haha. Whatever, this is getting too complicated. It shouldn't be like this. It should be more fluid and, while not effortless maybe (some initial tension is a good thing), at least feel like a natural process, not one where you have to guess and do stuff like this. Even the fact of talking about sex with your partner is a bit odd to me. It should be something that's mostly unspoken. For me, just bringing it up outright feels like it kinda kills the vibe. With past partners, I haven't really had these issues. That's an indicator that maybe this just ain't right for either of us.

Edited December 27, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Ishy]

Talk to her and be honest about how you feel. Only she can answer this question for you.

 

I have been dating for over a year and we had sex first once (not much experience ) and didn't for a full 10 months after. I wish he brought it up and we discussed it. In the end I brought it up that it was bothering but and I was struggling even though I wanted to I had a fear of getting intimate in that way. Also..

 

 

 

Have you ever been away together ? Spent more than a few hours together? This really helped as we were able to get to know each other a bit better.

[salparadise]

Whatever, this is getting too complicated. It shouldn't be like this. It should be more fluid and, while not effortless maybe (some initial tension is a good thing), at least feel like a natural process, not one where you have to guess and do stuff like this.

 

Perhaps I've just been lucky. I've dated quite a bit over the last ten years and all the women I dated had the understanding that sex is fundamental. They were enthusiastic and saw a healthy sex life as central to the relationship. I believe almost everyone views this as normal and expected for experienced adults after a few months at most. She's definitely an outlier. I'm curious as can be to know what it is.

 

Even the fact of talking about sex with your partner is a bit odd to me. It should be something that's mostly unspoken. For me, just bringing it up outright feels like it kinda kills the vibe. With past partners, I haven't really had these issues. That's an indicator that maybe this just ain't right for either of us.

 

I don't view talking about sex with your partner as odd at all. I've always discussed it pretty openly... as in, "is there anything you'd like to experience that we haven't been doing? What can I do to make it more fulfilling?" And we also talked about many aspects in detail. We shared fantasies and past experiences, etc. Openness enhances and extends the experience.

 

So, your reticence to talk about it is mirroring her reticence to engage. You both seem to fear intimacy, but to different degrees or different ways.

 

My guess is that even if she had intercourse due to talking about it or whatever, that it would eventually revert to the way it is now, because it's just how she is. I'd still bring it up and ask why.

 

Even I want to know––surely it must be major quandary to you.