Any point in contacting her again

[chillii]

It's still a dead duck just let it go.

She went out on a limb that time , that's not an easy thing for most women to do .

l get the being busy buttt, you really needed to take that and return the compliment somehow or at the very least at least talk more over the weekend even if just call or some messages .

[PRW]

After you've met her twice in person is it still OLD?

Yes. Until she abandons her profile on the OLD site and stops taking messages from other guys on the OLD sites,...this is still an OLD situation.

 

Plus I paid for and setup 2 dates. Women don't think it's rude to just ignore someone after that?

Don't start feeling entitled because you spent money on her. She'd drop you in the blink of an eye over that.

 

If I send her a text asking "would you like to go to X this Tuesday or Wednesday night? Please let me know either way" that's being uncertain and wishy-washy?

It isn't the worst line I have seen, but yea, still has problems.

 

Ditch the "or",...ditch the "would you like",... and ditch the "Please let me know either way".

 

Instead: "Hi <name>! Let's go to X this Tuesday at 6:00pm"

 

See the difference? Short, to the point, confident, unapologetic.

 

What am I supposed to do with the next woman to make it more "solid"?

Always present it as you being the one with the plan and the one who knows just what you are going to do. You are inviting her to come along and spend time with you. It is presented as it being something for her to enjoy and benefit from,...not for you to enjoy and benefit from. That doesn't mean she can't suggest ideas of what she'd like to do, but it is up to her to suggest such. Then you demonstrate that you are a "good listener" by incorporating her suggestions into a later date.

[max3732]

Yes. Until she abandons her profile on the OLD site and stops taking messages from other guys on the OLD sites,...this is still an OLD situation.

 

Don't start feeling entitled because you spent money on her. She'd drop you in the blink of an eye over that.

 

It isn't the worst line I have seen, but yea, still has problems.

 

Ditch the "or",...ditch the "would you like",... and ditch the "Please let me know either way".

 

Instead: "Hi <name>! Let's go to X this Tuesday at 6:00pm"

 

See the difference? Short, to the point, confident, unapologetic.

 

Always present it as you being the one with the plan and the one who knows just what you are going to do. You are inviting her to come along and spend time with you. It is presented as it being something for her to enjoy and benefit from,...not for you to enjoy and benefit from. That doesn't mean she can't suggest ideas of what she'd like to do, but it is up to her to suggest such. Then you demonstrate that you are a "good listener" by incorporating her suggestions into a later date.

 

To follow up she sent me something just saying she hopes I'm dong well and had a nice Christmas. Not exactly something that inspires a great deal of confidence in continuing with her, but I figure it's worth a shot just in case.

 

I don't know my evening plans for the next few as a lot of my usual events are cancelled around this time of year. There's a special event that goes on till early January that I wanted to see and would like to invite her to it.

 

If I say "I am planning on going to X in the evening. Would you be interested in joining me?" without mentioning a specific date is that a problem? If I say a specific date I always think she could come back with something specific to then saying she can't do it.

[PRW]

To follow up she sent me something just saying she hopes I'm dong well and had a nice Christmas. Not exactly something that inspires a great deal of confidence in continuing with her, but I figure it's worth a shot just in case.

 

Dude, she isn't going to say, "It's ok to ask me out now". Women will contact you with a seemingly pointless message with the hopes that your will take the hint and make a date. You didn't take the hint here!!

 

Women are almost never direct, it is the man's job to be direct. The man has to be what the woman isn't.

 

If I say "I am planning on going to X in the evening. Would you be interested in joining me?" without mentioning a specific date is that a problem?

Wishy-washy. Of course she is interested in joining you, or you wouldn't be doing any of this in the first place. You operate under the assumption that she wants to spend time with you and is looking forward to it. Your duty is to just tell her when and where.

 

If I say a specific date I always think she could come back with something specific to then saying she can't do it.

If she wants to spend time with you she will either silently adjust her calendar to have an opening (and you will never know she did so, and don't ask her if she did),...or she will suggest a different time that she is available.

 

A hybrid of that would be to first say, "When are your free to get together?".

 

Specific and to the point, which encourages her to give a specific answer.

 

Do NOT say, "Would you maybe want to get together sometime, maybe sorta, if you are not too busy, if you would like,...what do you think?"

 

When she gives you a day/time or a range of day/times,...THEN you make a specific date that fits within what she tells you.

 

Q: If you two were lost in the woods are you going to lead her out to safety, or are you going to ask her which way to go and how she would like you to lead her?

 

A: The man would pay attention so they don't get lost in the first place.

[edgygirl]

How many days passed since that date when you actually sent the message?

 

I get pissed when a guy disappears, say, for a whole week after a date and then reappears out of nowhere wanting to book a new date.

 

I also get pissed when a man is not decisive. So PRW above is absolutely right. It gets on our nerves when it's kinda-sorta-whathever.

 

This is really confusing then. Why would you suggest meeting again at the end of our last date without any prompting from me and then never respond when I bring up meeting again?

Edited December 26, 2018 by edgygirl

[max3732]

How many days passed since that date when you actually sent the message?

 

I get pissed when a guy disappears, say, for a whole week after a date and then reappears out of nowhere wanting to book a new date.

 

I also get pissed when a man is not decisive. So PRW above is absolutely right. It gets on our nerves when it's kinda-sorta-whathever.

 

Double checked and it was only 3 days. It was over the weekend so it went into the next week and seemed longer to me. When I turned her down at the end of the 2nd date I had a couple suggestions and said I'd check and get back to her, which I did do. She seemed so excited to see me before and after the 2nd date I'm just completely clueless dealing with women.

[Giraffe-A]

I’ve be curious why she wants to get together super early in the AM. Sounds like you may not be meeting her time slot, so it will seem like a waste of time.

[max3732]

I’ve be curious why she wants to get together super early in the AM. Sounds like you may not be meeting her time slot, so it will seem like a waste of time.

 

She works early and gets up at like 5am and wanted to meet at like 5:30. I'm a morning person myself, but not that early and I told her so (apparently a mistake). I told her I could probably do something during the weekend or in the evening and would get back to her, which I did 3 days later and then she didn't ignored me until just now.

[PRW]

When I turned her down at the end of the 2nd date I had a couple suggestions and said I'd check and get back to her, which I did do. She seemed so excited to see me before and after the 2nd date I'm just completely clueless dealing with women.

 

I'm confused.

How do you turn down someone at the END of a date?

 

Get Corey Wayne's book "How to be a 3% man". Study it. Thoroughly.

 

You aren't going to correct what might be a lifetime of confusion and bad dating habits by going around and around in circles on a web forum with a bunch of anonymous people who don't really know you that well and you don't know them. There is only so much we can do with such small amount of information,...and fragmented information at that. Plus we don't have her side of it,...so it is all one sided information.

[PRW]

She works early and gets up at like 5am and wanted to meet at like 5:30. I'm a morning person myself, but not that early and I told her so (apparently a mistake). I told her I could probably do something during the weekend or in the evening and would get back to her, which I did 3 days later and then she didn't ignored me until just now.

 

You make it too complicated. You probably just say too much in these interactions. All you have to say is

 

"I can't do the early morning time, but if you let me know when you are free on the weekend I'll plan something out." [Done]

 

Short and to the point. And then you wait for her to respond with a time she is available on the weekend. Communication at this early point (only 2 dates in the can) is like tennis,...you hit the ball to her side of the net and then you leave it alone and wait for her to hit it back.

 

If a woman is excited about spending time with you she isn't going to make it complicated. If she is making it complicated then she isn't that excited about it and you may even have competitors. After all you met her on OLD,...that means she has guys waiting in line. Women, if they are even just a little attractive, may get 100's of messages from guys through the OLD site.

 

If she is short on availability then she may be doing dates with other guys from the OLD site and has to "fit you in". And YES, you need to be ok with that. You've only had two dates,...not GF/BF here. No one owes anyone any loyalty at this point.

[max3732]

You make it too complicated. You probably just say too much in these interactions. All you have to say is

 

"I can't do the early morning time, but if you let me know when you are free on the weekend I'll plan something out." [Done]

 

Short and to the point. And then you wait for her to respond with a time she is available on the weekend. Communication at this early point (only 2 dates in the can) is like tennis,...you hit the ball to her side of the net and then you leave it alone and wait for her to hit it back.

 

If a woman is excited about spending time with you she isn't going to make it complicated. If she is making it complicated then she isn't that excited about it and you may even have competitors. After all you met her on OLD,...that means she has guys waiting in line. Women, if they are even just a little attractive, may get 100's of messages from guys through the OLD site.

 

If she is short on availability then she may be doing dates with other guys from the OLD site and has to "fit you in". And YES, you need to be ok with that. You've only had two dates,...not GF/BF here. No one owes anyone any loyalty at this point.

 

Well it's officially over with her, but I got a sort of answer why. I sent a message like the one you described with a specific place and time and she said she thinks I'm a wonderful person, but she didn't feel a connection and would like to go as friends.

 

So you're right she wasn't very excited. From our conversation and her body language I thought things were going great the 1st 2 dates so I'm still not able to gauge interest at all. Not getting anything was really bothering me so I'm glad I can put this behind me and move on.

[max3732]

I'm confused.

How do you turn down someone at the END of a date?

 

Get Corey Wayne's book "How to be a 3% man". Study it. Thoroughly.

 

You aren't going to correct what might be a lifetime of confusion and bad dating habits by going around and around in circles on a web forum with a bunch of anonymous people who don't really know you that well and you don't know them. There is only so much we can do with such small amount of information,...and fragmented information at that. Plus we don't have her side of it,...so it is all one sided information.

 

A friend gave me a dating book years ago that I never opened called "How to succeed with women". It's from 1999 and has nothing with OLD, but it seems to be pretty good. As I'm reading it I'm seeing myself in a lot of the examples of what not to do.

 

The book you mentioned seems to have good reviews. One change I've been making is just going on more and more dates to get more comfortable being around women. I know I need to stop getting so nervous and putting so much pressure on myself.

 

One of my friends from college who just got married told me she hired a dating coach and gave me her name. I also read in the WSJ some people are using them, but there's really no criteria for calling yourself a dating expert. With tennis I have a coach watch me when I'm playing and get immediate feedback and I greatly improved my game by having a coach that was brutally honest when I made mistakes. Wish I could have a dating coach observe my dates and tell me what I'm doing wrong. It's just extremely demoralizing to be told what a great guy I am and how much I have going for me and still get rejected again and again. Another year single despite all my efforts.

Edited December 27, 2018 by max3732

[Larry56]

And again the members of love shack fail again. Why am I not suprised.

 

It's like you actually believe women don't play games or ghost guys for no reason.

 

Max, she did what 99% of the female sex does when they don't like someone and don't want to confront turning someone down...they ghost. It's not a new thing. It's something they have always done. Most women are too scared to hurt someones feelings so they make up excuses.

 

Just take the whole thing as a good lesson into covert female communication.

[PRW]

I thought things were going great the 1st 2 dates so I'm still not able to gauge interest at all.

 

Still making it too complicated. It probably was great the first 1 or 2. But that doesn't mean anything. There could be dozens of possible reasons why it never made it to a 3rd and there may not have been anything you could have done about it.

[PRW]

The book you mentioned seems to have good reviews.

It is the best one out there IMO. It is written somewhat like an autobiography of the guy who did everything wrong you can do and the figured it out and got his act together. The book was life changing for me.

 

One of my friends from college who just got married told me she hired a dating coach and gave me her name.

I'm very skeptical of that. Spend the measly $20 for the book instead.

 

Here's a video I ran across yesterday that I thought was pretty good. The guy is really a PUA, but seems a little more sensible than some others. He's still a PUA but has some good things to say. He is NOT the guy in the book I mentioned.

 

 

Get the book. It is only a measly $20 and you can even read it for free online if you sign up for his newsletter. It is the best one and most practical one out there.

[smackie9]

Max you don't need books and videos or a dating coach. You just need to read between the lines. Sure anyone can smile and laugh/have a good time on a date, it doesn't mean romantic interest. The poof of real interest is in the interaction between dates, the content in the messages, and how they initiate and reciprocate.

 

When I was interested in a guy, I never blew hot/cold or made it nearly impossible to set up the next date. I made myself available to see them asap...sometimes the next night.

 

Keep it simple...be direct, and confident. If you get wishy-washy excuses, bail.

[max3732]

Max you don't need books and videos or a dating coach. You just need to read between the lines. Sure anyone can smile and laugh/have a good time on a date, it doesn't mean romantic interest. The poof of real interest is in the interaction between dates, the content in the messages, and how they initiate and reciprocate.

 

When I was interested in a guy, I never blew hot/cold or made it nearly impossible to set up the next date. I made myself available to see them asap...sometimes the next night.

 

Keep it simple...be direct, and confident. If you get wishy-washy excuses, bail.

 

It's just discouraging to go another year without a girlfriend or even a 1st kiss. This year I went on more 1st or 2nd dates than ever before but never made it to a 3rd. I've stopped going on social media since I'm tired of seeing all my friends posting pics of their kids and/or spouses.

 

In her message this last woman said she can tell I'm very passionate, smart and kind. Plus this is the 2nd one that said she wants to be friends. I just need to do something different and wish I had someone to help me besides turning to the forum if there's something obvious I'm doing wrong that I can change.

[PRW]

In her message this last woman said she can tell I'm very passionate, smart and kind. Plus this is the 2nd one that said she wants to be friends. I just need to do something different and wish I had someone to help me besides turning to the forum if there's something obvious I'm doing wrong that I can change.

 

Then you REALLY need to get the book I mentioned. That is one of the things it deals with the most. You'll understand exactly what is going on after that.

 

It is too big a subject to try to hash out here.

[elaine567]

So you're right she wasn't very excited. From our conversation and her body language I thought things were going great the 1st 2 dates so I'm still not able to gauge interest at all.

Things were going great but you rejected her and then took a long time to get back to her. That conveyed low interest to her and so she moved on.

[spiderowl]

If you are truly interested in someone, contact her the next day with a plan or just to chat and let her know you are working on a plan. Leaving a gap of two days is a long time - any longer than that and she will write you off. I would.

[Zippy2000]

Contacting a woman a second time with no response shows she has changed her mind and doesn't want to continue with or progress with any relationship.

 

For OLD its really bad manners in not replying even to say you`re not interested. A lot of people do this online. Most of the time people don't know how to reject or say "No" to someone so its easier to just blank you. Just chalk this up and move on.

[JuneL]

Sorry the holidays were getting in the way, so I didn't go back to re-read your other threads. That was just the general impression I got from you. I think it boils down to the following: You have to be more SPONTANEOUS, instead of acting like scheduling a business meeting ("Let me ask my assistant to see if there's a slot available next week, and then I'll get back to you...").

 

This girl a lost case now, but it doesn't hurt to learn from this experience. Did she ask you to meet for breakfast at 5.30am? Then you can respond by saying something like "You don't want to be having breakfast with a zombie who is still in his dreams, do you?" and suggest an alternative right away with a specific date and time.

 

Actually if I were you, since she offered friendship, you might as well ask her for constructive feedback -- she was the one who saw how you're actually acting on a date after all!

 

In what way? I'm sorry if I interpret someone laughing and saying "what are you doing at such and such time? Let's meet up" after a 2nd date as indicating they want to see me again. You're absolutely right that I don't pick up on the social cue that indicates someone saying and acting like this means she never wants to see or communicate with me again.

 

I also apologize that I have to work for a living and can't devote every minute of my day to meet up with someone without double checking my other commitments. When I double checked and got back to her in a few days I was expecting her to be courteous and let me know so I could figure out if I could make plans with other people. I even gave her a couple days to choose from.

 

To be more specific, I'm part of a group that needs people to commit at least a few days before and if I don't sign up early I would miss out. I also had a friend in town visiting and my family wanted to get together. I missed meeting up with the group and gave those couple days to her, which is why I was hurt she never had the basic courtesy to respond.

 

In what way was I being inflexible?

[milialia]

CALL HER and too early for you? She figured wth so started ignoring you, she's not going to be at your beck and call and meet at times convenient for you. Next time you start dating a woman don't be a little *ussy and if she says a time then agree if you like her if not don't bother talking in the first place and wasting her time. Good for her for ignoring you.

[edgygirl]

Not necessarily afraid to "hurt feelings". I've had creeps stalk me and send me cray messages when I tried to break it off. Sometimes it's preferable to just disappear, depending on the guy.

 

Maybe think how we feel when crazy men stalk us / become scary / violent?

 

And again the members of love shack fail again. Why am I not suprised.

 

It's like you actually believe women don't play games or ghost guys for no reason.

 

Max, she did what 99% of the female sex does when they don't like someone and don't want to confront turning someone down...they ghost. It's not a new thing. It's something they have always done. Most women are too scared to hurt someones feelings so they make up excuses.

 

Just take the whole thing as a good lesson into covert female communication.

[manfrombelow2]

Normally, if the guy did everything right, he could have the girl heads over heels for him on the 2nd date and have sex with her on the 3rd date.

 

In your case, I would have stopped contacting her the moment she DID NOT REPLY to me the first time. Because, the entire "not replying" thing is the universal language for "I am done with you, please leave me alone".

 

But you didn't take the hint, and you kept contacting her with another text instead, and still you got no response in return.

 

Just let it go brother. For whatever reasons, when a person wants to be left alone, we must leave her/him alone. We do that not only to show respect for that person, but also for ourselves.

 

I went out with this women from OLD twice. The last time I saw her she asked about meeting early in the morning the following week and I told her that was a bit too early for me, but I'd be in touch later about planning something and mentioned a local event.

 

The following week I sent her a text asking about it and got no response. Then I waited another couple weeks and asked her about meeting up for something else and also said that even if she can't do it I would really appreciate it if she'd let me know. That got no response.

 

To me if she's getting my messages this is rather rude and I obviously wouldn't want to date her if that's the case. It just boggles me mind that you'd completely ignore someone you met twice and even offered to see again at a specific time. Just to know for sure she's ignoring me I'm tempted to call and leave a voicemail just asking for confirmation she received my messages or sending her a message on the dating app saying the same.

 

Would this be a waste of time?