TheFinalWord Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Lol ok Corey Wayne, so what are you saying? I should have somehow forced her into sex on a first date? I didn't lose any frame, at all. I was courting her and trying to play it cool. The issue here was misunderstandings and miscommunication. I said casual at first. She thought she wanted that. Then she had second thoughts after my invite for her to come back over so soon after she clearly told me she needed to get to know me better (on the first date). I tried to save things. It didn't work. End of story. Did you show her this type of attitude? I can see why she's gone. Good luck!
Versacehottie Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 No I appreciate your thoughts. I'm ok with constructive criticism. I guess you're right. Though she's up rather late, expecting a text back after 10pm was wrong. I wasn't surprised really. What I was surprised about was nothing today, therefore an official ghost job IMO. You guys on here, including yourself, have written stuff like oh she'll get back to you eventually. I don't really understand that. The girl had an entire day to write back. She didn't. That's bad news. What I texted her really didn't matter IMO. I mentioned something about a football team that she follows and is a fan of. It was casual. It wasn't "lame". I feel like you're trying to make excuses for her about time frames and this and that. All I'm pointing out is common courtesy and reality. She never got back to me about the babysitter/date. Then on top of that she didn't respond to my reaching out. This is over now IMO and all I can do is move on and maybe she'll reach out eventually, but even if she does I don't see how I'd ever be able to forget about the memory of her behavior here this last week. YES, I know how casual doesn't warrant nonstop communication everyday or plans every week and all that, but in my mature opinion, it DOES warrant respect, and I have not gotten that from her here in the end. Ok glad that you are ok with constructive criticism. Of course it's totally possible that your attempt to resurrect was just too late, she wasn't that into you, likes someone else better or is just too busy right now to truly date. It seems like you are looking for a formula in some ways that guarantees success. What i hope you get the gist of from what i'm saying is that you should put your best foot forward from the first moment of contact (actually before the first moment of contact) and at same time think in a less judgmental, less binary way. There are so many variables that go into how a relationship ends up being one that has staying power. I'm sorry if you don't feel that respected but it's just a simple fact, a decent amount of women that you would reach out to in the manner that you have would do exactly what she has done. Same with guys. Same with the "ghosting". If we've only been on 2 two dates and you said casual, i think it's pretty common for either party to drop out at any time, no explanation given. Hopefully, some big discussion doesn't ensue based on me saying that. As it's a very divided and polarizing position--however, you can't change the reality that many people do it and think it's fine. Under these conditions MOST of the people i know (including myself) wouldn't feel obligated to answer or explain anything. I might but i wouldn't feel like i had to. Also if i sensed the guy was going to go off on me or try to change my mind (assuming i'd made it up) OR more likely if i hadn't made it up, i also wouldn't be in a rush to answer, more like stall. (a friend of mine just married a great guy who she went out with once, they had a great time and then she didn't call him back for TWO weeks!!! But when she did they were solid ever since resulting in their marriage--and she is not the only one i know to have done something like that and have it work out positively). You can't really get mad at her for that, just sum it up (as it appears you have, though you do seem conflicted) that she isn't the one for you. I do think you are being too harsh and unreasonable based on the conditions that have brought you BOTH to this place in time right now. In other words, you should let it roll off your back a bit more. It seems a little hypocritical to have gone into the first date with the mentality and the things you said which defined what you would be up for and only two dates later be acting like she has disrespected you in some way. IMO, no more so than a guy who was somewhat insulting telling her he only wanted casual and then only taking her to home 'dates'. It simply also might not be compelling enough for her (without any bad or negative emotions on her part either). Sometimes when you lead with not your best foot, people pick up on that and become not so interested. I also think some flexibility in the way you approach things and realizing that not everyone will do things AS you do will help. This is not to say that you are wrong--this is so that you can get what you want, which involves coming to the understanding that not everyone will process information and situations as you do and it can pay to give someone the benefit of the doubt to get what you want overall. You need to decide your most important priority with things. Like with this: is it to hold on to your pride, demand respect or date this girl? Or maybe that you are not quite done exploring her yet because you don't know her well enough to come to a judgement about what is really going on between you two. I don't think you need to sacrifice your pride or need for respect to get what you want but don't let it get in the way i.e. flexibility and a desire to come to understand others can be your friend in getting BOTH. And it can be done. Holding tight to either goal at the full and total expense of the other is usually a mistake. Good luck
LoverOfDance Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 @TheFinalWord - you're honestly scary. I can't believe men like you exist, smh. You remind me of some of the men i met while online dating who pretty much left me with traumatizing experiences, smh. 1
TheFinalWord Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 @TheFinalWord - you're honestly scary. I can't believe men like you exist, smh. You remind me of some of the men i met while online dating who pretty much left me with traumatizing experiences, smh. That's not my game. I'm not into casual, but I know when a woman wants that and when she's pretending not to. Would you go on a first date with a man at his place? Come on.
Author Mac0908 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Posted December 18, 2018 That's not my game. I'm not into casual, but I know when a woman wants that and when she's pretending not to. Would you go on a first date with a man at his place? Come on. The first date was at a place(bar) near my apartment. Then I asked if she wanted to come over for one glass one wine. She said ok, just for an hour. Gotta read, "bro".
LoverOfDance Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Op, like others have said, stop bothering yourself about this. This woman has not disrespected you. She has free will and does not need to reply to your last breezy text which apparently wasn't even a question. She also has no obligation to reach out to you any time soon since you two are only dating casually. Remember also that the week is not even over yet. You are worrying too much. Even if she doesn't reach out to you by the end of this week, it doesn't really matter. You barely know her. I advised you to call because calling is the fastest and most direct way to get a message across. If you don't want to call, just leave this be. No need to beat yourself up.
TheFinalWord Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 The first date was at a place(bar) near my apartment. Then I asked if she wanted to come over for one glass one wine. She said ok, just for an hour. Gotta read, "bro". Sounds like the start of a beautiful relationship "brah"
Mrs._December Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 By "casual," I assume you mean sex without exclusivity, sex without commitment, sex without a lot of promises to be around and be a supportive partner. That's not 'casual dating.' That's f*ck-buddies. Casual dating (from what I've always observed) is seeing someone not on a regular or serious basis but on a casual level with no promises and no expectations from either side. I casually dated many men when I was single. That doesn't mean I was having sex with them.
Mrs._December Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) All that "I'm not that kinda girl" is BS. She's a single mom, which is the epitome of being that kind of girl. With all due respect, THIS is the type of undeserved and unfair belief that single moms have been putting up with for years. For some odd reason, lots of men believe that since she's a single mom and not getting 'it' on a regular basis, she MUST be desperate for a man in her bed and will be an easy score. And many men don't want to deal with someone else's kids (and I totally get that) so they only see the single mom as some possible sex and not girlfriend material. So the chips are already stacked against her before she even starts out the gate. But to infer that she's ANY "kind of girl" simply because she's raising her kids on her own is grossly unfair and extremely distasteful - unless we also believe single fathers are desperate horn dogs who don't deserve anyone's respect and aren't worth investing in. I mean, either we do it all the way or not at all. OP, this type of stinkin' thinkin' is what she's been dealing with since she started dating again as a single mother. It's likely also why she was so quick to run. I'm not saying YOU treated her like that, but lots of fools have so she's probably become pretty sensitive to men not wanting to invest in her or show her the respect she deserves. Edited December 18, 2018 by Mrs._December 1
Author Mac0908 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Posted December 18, 2018 OP, this type of stinkin' thinkin' is what she's been dealing with since she started dating again as a single mother. It's likely also why she was so quick to run. I'm not saying YOU treated her like that, but lots of fools have so she's probably become pretty sensitive to men not wanting to invest in her or show her the respect she deserves. Yes, I get it. I do. While I may have been flirtatious I definitely didn’t just treat her like a piece of meat though. No way. Actually she seemed very, very appreciative of some of the nice things about me (ie driving her home out of my way, being understanding that her kid was sick and I had to leave, etc). Just hard to believe that she went from semi into “casual” to doing a complete 180 basically the second I invited her over my place to cook for her.
LI7788 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Unfortunately it sounds like you scared her off, though not instantly imo. She had some time to think (which is why she said she’d let you know about the sitter) and ultimately decided it was best for her to move on. Like someone else alluded to, you COULD have thrown her a text or two to try and win her back over, I guess, but I don’t know. Feels like she had her mind made up about you already. I will agree with you on the fact that casually dating or not, I don’t agree with the ghosting thing at all, especially since you guys seemed to have a nice two dates with what you claimed was great chemistry (I read this ENTIRE thread btw). But you gotta be honest with yourself a bit, it’s not like you didn’t know any better here. From the start she was kinda put off by the casual talk, even saying “Thanks for being honest Good luck”. You should have been more mindful. (i.e. Your place = S-x). Yes she had some fun with you on date 1 but she said she needed to get to know you better. All you had after that was 2 hours you claim, on date #2 when you had to leave early bc of the kid. So no, not the smartest move in the world to invite her right over if you were trying to “flip the script”, but I think this all was more of a case of her just realizing she wasn’t up for this casual business over it being an what you called a possible “Fatal” mistake. At this point there is nothing you can do unfortunately. While texting her some emotional thing saying how you hope she didn’t get the wrong idea might FEEL right, I’d say there’s a 95% chance that actually subconsciously turns her off by your chasing, as if she wasn’t already turned off by your quick invite over her place and subsequent desperation to try and save it the next night (though I do think that was probably a good thing to try).
stillafool Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 If she's hot she probably has others who are vying for her attention as well.
Author Mac0908 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) If she's hot she probably has others who are vying for her attention as well. If she had no kid I’d go with this possibility every day. But being a single mom, short of being a knockout, getting someone to be interested is much more difficult IMHO Edited December 18, 2018 by Mac0908
TheFinalWord Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) With all due respect, THIS is the type of undeserved and unfair belief that single moms have been putting up with for years. For some odd reason, lots of men believe that since she's a single mom and not getting 'it' on a regular basis, she MUST be desperate for a man in her bed and will be an easy score. And many men don't want to deal with someone else's kids (and I totally get that) so they only see the single mom as some possible sex and not girlfriend material. So the chips are already stacked against her before she even starts out the gate. But to infer that she's ANY "kind of girl" simply because she's raising her kids on her own is grossly unfair and extremely distasteful - unless we also believe single fathers are desperate horn dogs who don't deserve anyone's respect and aren't worth investing in. I mean, either we do it all the way or not at all. OP, this type of stinkin' thinkin' is what she's been dealing with since she started dating again as a single mother. It's likely also why she was so quick to run. I'm not saying YOU treated her like that, but lots of fools have so she's probably become pretty sensitive to men not wanting to invest in her or show her the respect she deserves. I see what you are saying. I apologize bc I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I misread OP. It sounded like she was playing innocent with the definition of casual..."yeah, I"m not into casual, come to my house and drink...wink, wink"...But OP said that was not the case. I don't know her and he does, so I'm taking him at his word. That was just my gut reaction. OP corrected me and I should have read closer. I thought I was being trolled for a minute being called Corey Wayne. But I think OP was just giving me a hard time lol Which is cool, I don't care. I've dated single moms, but I am weary of getting close not because of raising another man's kids, but because I don't want to get close to the kids and have them taken away if the relationship dissolves. OP: Who knows man. I have found that women are extremely fickle when you are first starting to get to know them. If you make one mistake, they are gone. Sometimes you don't even have to make a mistake. They just get a vibe or what have you. It's happened to me countless times. I don't think you even did anything wrong here. It seemed pretty organic and you were clear about your intentions. Edited December 18, 2018 by TheFinalWord
Author Mac0908 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) I see what you are saying. I apologize bc I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I misread OP. It sounded like she was playing innocent with the definition of casual..."yeah, I"m not into casual, come to my house and drink...wink, wink"...But OP said that was not the case. I don't know her and he does, so I'm taking him at his word. That was just my gut reaction. OP corrected me and I should have read closer. I thought I was being trolled for a minute being called Corey Wayne. But I think OP was just giving me a hard time lol Which is cool, I don't care. I've dated single moms, but I am weary of getting close not because of raising another man's kids, but because I don't want to get close to the kids and have them taken away if the relationship dissolves. OP: Who knows man. I have found that women are extremely fickle when you are first starting to get to know them. If you make one mistake, they are gone. Sometimes you don't even have to make a mistake. They just get a vibe or what have you. It's happened to me countless times. I don't think you even did anything wrong here. It seemed pretty organic and you were clear about your intentions. Thanks. I appreciate you redeeming yourself there with that post. It felt honest. I hope it was. Agreed completely about the whole initial stages with a girl. It’s often like you’re on probation and can’t mess up at all. That’s all tied in to what happened here IMO. Said it before though and I’ll say it one final time , just a real shame Bc while my intentions for casual were clear, they weren’t what I ended up wanting. It’s almost as if the second she began having second thoughts about the casual thing was the same time I started having second thoughts about it NOT being casual. Unfortunate situation all around. Edited December 18, 2018 by Mac0908 1
Wallysbears Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 If she had no kid I’d go with this possibility every day. But being a single mom, short of being a knockout, getting someone to be interested is much more difficult IMHO Or, she senses that you have this type of attitude towards single moms and that's why she ghosted. 2
TheFinalWord Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Thanks. I appreciate you redeeming yourself there with that post. It felt honest. I hope it was. Agreed completely about the whole initial stages with a girl. It’s often like you’re on probation and can’t mess up at all. That’s all tied in to what happened here IMO. Said it before though and I’ll say it one final time , just a real shame Bc while my intentions for casual were clear, they weren’t what I ended up wanting. It’s almost as if the second she began having second thoughts about the casual thing was the same time I started having second thoughts about it NOT being casual. Unfortunate situation all around. It was honest! It is unfortunate and I feel for you. I recently had a date with a woman where the chemistry was insane...once in a blue moon chemistry. In the weeks leading up to our date and even on the date, she was non-stop talking about a future together, her goals and how I would fit in, the whole nine-yards. The second I began reciprocating, she bolted and said I was getting too serious too fast. Like you, normally, I would care less, but the chemistry was just so rare and she said she felt the same. It's made me realize that timing is one of those intangible factors that you can't really control. One miscalculation during the initial stages, and she's gone, no matter how great the chemistry was. It can be frustrating, but the way I look at it is if this person's first reaction to miscommunication is to run, rather than to discuss, the juice is probably not worth the squeeze (can you guess which online coach that line comes from? lol)
anika99 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 If she had no kid I’d go with this possibility every day. But being a single mom, short of being a knockout, getting someone to be interested is much more difficult IMHO I just don't understand where people get these ideas. I was a single mom (kids all grown now) and I never had a shortage of men pursuing me. Yes there were plenty of guys just wanting sex or just casual but also plenty of men who fell in love and wanted to tie me down into a committed relationship. I had my pick of men just like all young attractive women do, so I've always been baffled by the idea that all single mothers are dateless and desperate for any attention they can get. If the woman in your situation is attractive, has a good personality and is on a dating site then you better believe she is getting lots of offers. In any case she has gone dark on you and nobody can tell you for sure why that is. It's all just speculation. It could have something to do with the conversation about just being casual and the invite to your place, but then again it could be something totally unrelated, like maybe she is meeting and dating others and she simply met someone she liked better. Maybe she got back together with an ex. Nobody knows! Don't contact her again. You have asked her out twice since you last saw her and made one attempt at casual conversation and she has ignored you. No she doesn't owe you anything but her silence is speaking volumes. If she was the least bit interested in seeing you again she would have at least texted you, even if she is really busy or can't get a sitter. She is not interested and further contact from you will not be viewed positively. So brush yourself off and move on. Don't beat yourself up, you don't know enough her or her life to know if this about face even had anything to do with what you did or did not do. In the future I would say instead of telling someone that you just want to date casually, say something more along the lines of "let's take it slow and see if anything more serious develops" I feel like if you meet someone and tell them right out of the gate that you just want to casually date them, what they hear is "I just want to use you for a bit of fun and then I'll move on" A few years ago I dated a guy that I initially really liked but shortly into dating him he told me he didn't see me as a good match for his lifestyle but "hey that doesn't mean we can't still hang out and have fun right?" And I was like "sure!" But in that moment I knew I had to regard him as nothing more than casual fun in order to protect myself. I stuck to that mindset and in the end he actually got more attached to me than i was to him and he was rather hurt when I stopped seeing him a few months later. It truly was that one conversation where he pretty much told me he would never get seriously involved with me that enabled me to stay distant and walk away easily when I felt like it. Which was great! I actually appreciated his honesty. However, if you are open to possibilies and falling in love then you shouldn't tell someone right at the onset that you're writing them off as a candidate unless you know for sure that is the case. 3
Versacehottie Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 In any case she has gone dark on you and nobody can tell you for sure why that is. It's all just speculation. It could have something to do with the conversation about just being casual and the invite to your place, but then again it could be something totally unrelated, like maybe she is meeting and dating others and she simply met someone she liked better. Maybe she got back together with an ex. Nobody knows! yeah, exactly. OP, you were the one that planted the seed of what the "issue" was. I would have to guess that you were probably right about that being part of it. That said, it could be something else & a variety of things. No one here but you knows this situation better than you--and that was your first guess so in some way you must of known that what you did otherwise was fine and that this part wasn't received so well. I know if i was in her shoes i'm fairly certain given all other factors being positive that it would have been saying casual and then treating it casual by the types of things you asked her to do, i would have lost interest or stopped replying. You can see that right away when you said casual before the first date she said, thanks for being honest and good luck, i.e. cut it off? Means she is not looking for casual. people can get into all the nuances of what casual means here and what intentions are etc. The main point is that you can't tell how the other person will interpret it, what their definition is and will they stick around or be bothered to ask questions and define your interpretation. Most often not. if it's not what they want it puts her on the defensive from the beginning and have a wall up or doubt about you. I'm not a single mom but just like you discovered something special in her, i think single moms actually do better in dating than you would imagine. A couple of my guy friends felt exactly as you did and were hooked right away--more than a single non-mom with no attachments and hot. I think it's something about the fact that all their attention is not focused on you thus guys have to fight to become a priority which gives them some space and time to see the benefits. Also they typically have something nurturing or otherwise magnetic about them that will draw a guy in when he least expects it. Anyway hopefully you've learned the valuable lesson not to write someone off before you've spent time with them--or at least don't say or do anything out loud that blows it for you or leaves you wondering if this is why you don't have a chance with her.
olivetree Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 EVERYONE is just speculating here. It could have nothing to do with the third date or the casualness. For all you know she met someone else.
Author Mac0908 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) EVERYONE is just speculating here. It could have nothing to do with the third date or the casualness. For all you know she met someone else. Yeah, but when you look at the facts and evidence it really only points loudly to one thing, for the most part. There’s no coincidence that this all began to fall apart after the third date invite. yeah, exactly. OP, you were the one that planted the seed of what the "issue" was. I would have to guess that you were probably right about that being part of it. That said, it could be something else & a variety of things. No one here but you knows this situation better than you--and that was your first guess so in some way you must of known that what you did otherwise was fine and that this part wasn't received so well. I know if i was in her shoes i'm fairly certain given all other factors being positive that it would have been saying casual and then treating it casual by the types of things you asked her to do, i would have lost interest or stopped replying. You can see that right away when you said casual before the first date she said, thanks for being honest and good luck, i.e. cut it off? Means she is not looking for casual. Well yeah... This wasn’t a case of a girl just randomly going cold with me completely scratching my head. It was pretty blatantly obvious to me what (more than likely) went wrong. Now maybe you can understand why I felt like I had to reach out and explain my real intentions and tell her I hope she didn’t get the wrong idea about me. But like others here have implied, it’s really just too late at this point. For her to ghost, that’s pretty much it. Edited December 18, 2018 by Mac0908
damni Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 If she had no kid I’d go with this possibility every day. But being a single mom, short of being a knockout, getting someone to be interested is much more difficult IMHO Wow, she definitely made the right decision in not going any further with you. Your attitude stinks and you obviously have an ego problem as your on here harping on about a woman you met TWICE. 2
Author Mac0908 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Posted December 18, 2018 Wow, she definitely made the right decision in not going any further with you. Your attitude stinks and you obviously have an ego problem as your on here harping on about a woman you met TWICE. Excuse me? all I implied was that dating for single mothers is more difficult. The reality is that most men(not all, but most) don’t want to jump on board and deal with the idea or the hassle of someone else’s kid and everything that comes along with that. . I think most people would at least somewhat agree with this. If you took this the wrong way I apologize.
Morello Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 There’s no coincidence that this all began to fall apart after the third date invite. Again, you seem to analyse things in a very objective and rational way, even though women usually are more emotional than rational. This was when she made her decision but I'm sure she considered the whole picture (including what you said in the beginning). She just wasn't feeling it anymore or was feeling it fore someone else. It's still weird that after changing your mind about wanting only casual you still invited her to your place on the 3rd date. You're either very inexperienced in dating or maybe subconciously were still not valuing her enough to go on a proper date. Why did you think this was reasonable? And I agree with the last post. She made a very good decision to stop seeing you. If she read what you said about guys not being interested just because she's a single mom she'd probably have ghosted you and told you to f off just out of knowing this is what you think about her. 1
damni Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Excuse me? all I implied was that dating for single mothers is more difficult. The reality is that most men(not all, but most) don’t want to jump on board and deal with the idea or the hassle of someone else’s kid and everything that comes along with that. . I think most people would at least somewhat agree with this. If you took this the wrong way I apologize. Thank you for explaining, your original comment came across quite harsh. I stand by my original thought that you need to wait till you meet someone before proposing a casual relationship. Just live and learn from this experience.
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