He is doing NC even though I ended it?! Reversed roles.

[IloveJames]

Hi all,

 

I need your help and advice. My situation is so complicated, wasn’t even sure where to post.

 

My marriage has been almost dead for years, but we are a great co-parenting team. I tried saving it many times. One day I told him I will start dating if he doesn’t change and he shockingly gave me the green light.

 

I started dating James. I was initially just having fun, but then fell head over heels. We have been together over a year now. He wanted me to divorce but not because of him, but because I was ready... it was so hard to choose..

 

Meanwhile James accepted a new job cross-county and moved for 6 months to fix his financial situation. We started LDR which was going great, but very hard to sustain due to time zones and life challenges. We kept meeting once a month.

 

He visited me last week for 5 days and while it felt amazing, I had concerns ... fears... thinking I can choose with my head and that going back and trying to rebuild my family for my son’s sake is the right thing to do, I broke up with him.

 

I hurt him. I used every single thing I can think of to hurt him and humiliated him as if to make myself believe it’s over and there is no coming back. Thought I will be relieved. Thought I can start over with my husband.

 

 

But no... I’m utterly devastated. James left. He won’t talk to me or answer his phone. We both agreed we loved each other but the concerns have been around him stating that he loves and misses me a lot but never felt those butterflies... I know it’s not necessary to have those for deep love. We have lust, limerende, friendship, love..

 

Now I’m trying so hard to make him hear me out and explain that I do love him and I was scared and I tried to do what’s right vs what I truly want. And that I accept and love him for who he is and said hurtful things about his weight and hygiene only to spite him...

 

I feel devastated, horrible, disgusting.

 

In my defense, he has given me grief too. But I forgave. He was hard to commit, hard to admit he loves me and when I basically dumped him he cried a lot and said that now it’s over and that it wasn’t meant to be...

 

 

Please help me calm down. I don’t eat or sleep. I feel like not seeing him ever again will kill me. I do have some codependency and rejection issues from my past but this pain is stronger than losing my parents.

 

Please give me advice. Tell me I can win him back. He can’t stop loving me overnight, right? Should I fly cross county and talk to him in person? I need to show him he can trust me. I love him so much and I need him....

[Garcon1986]

So you've done a rough thing - if I understand correctly, you've sought out the love of another man because your marriage was dead?

This is one of the most painful things a lady can do to a man. So, lets start with - can you describe to us in which ways your marriage is dead? Passion is gone? You don't see eye to eye? There are more and more arguments? The sex is boring?

 

I'll start with saying this sort of thing is tough to forgive from the man's perspective.

[IloveJames]

Hello,

 

Unfortunately this is not the case here. I have been telling my husband for years that our marriage is suffering, we don’t have sex anymore, we don’t have fun and never go on dates, I tried planning dates and activities with him but got tired of all this one-sidedness. He shuts down and stone walls me whenever he is uncomfortable.

 

Anyway. Beside the point. Facts:

 

He knew and was seemingly ok with my relationship with James. Claimed “whatever makes you happy”.

 

I’m not asking about my marriage here. We are just friends and co-parents.

 

I’m suffering tremendously for the other man because o feel like I choose with my brain to stay with my husband and let my love go. So deeply regretting it now but he won’t even talk to me because he is so hurt...

 

I have complicated grief issues and this suffering

Is way more than I can take.

[WomenWubber]

I think that getting your stuff together should be your top priority right now.

 

Can you afford a divorce?

[stillafool]

Your life isn't over. If you love James and your husband doesn't care then you made a mistake by trying to stay in your marriage. File for divorce, move out and then James will take you seriously that you want to be with him.

[FMW]

You may not see it, seems like you probably don't, but the fact that your are married really DOES have a lot to do with your relationship with James.

 

It allows James to see himself as just a separate part of your life, not a priority. It allows him (or forces him, depending on his feelings for you) to accept that he's expendable. He doesn't need to consider you or your feelings when it comes right down to it, when making decisions about his life.

 

It limits your connection for him. So when you broke it off and especially because you said mean things, there just wasn't enough reason there for him to keep holding on to it. And at this point, no reason to pick things back up again.

 

He may very well love you, but truly - love is NOT enough to just keep holding on when the rest is just more than you want to deal with anymore.

[d0nnivain]

Leave poor James alone.

 

You are married to someone else. You broke up with James. Now you want him back? How selfish & mean are you?

 

You can't very well walk away from your kids to move where James started a new life. James is entitled to have a life partner who is free to build a life with him. You are not that person.

 

Clean up the mess you made of your marriage. Get a divorce. Then figure out how to be in a healthy fulfilling relationship.

[IloveJames]

Thanks. I knew I was going to get this attitude and would get criticized but was hoping this is a judgement-free zone.

 

Here is the other side of the story: I’m severely co-dependent and have major grief and self love issues. I’m the perfect victim for an abusive relationship because this is how I grew up and this is what I associate love with - pain, fights, getting back together as in me winning their love back.

 

The so called poor James loves to drink so much. He is a high functioning alcoholic. He knew I was married and swept me off my feet. He has never had a serious relationship and keeps blaming all the women he has ever been with. He has become morbidly obese and doesn’t take care of his health or hygiene. In another world we would never be together but I so needed him when I met him. But I’m somehow willing to look past all these issues only to have that escape from my life. Why?

 

Because my usband is good, sweet, caring but... autistic and doesn’t display affection or love. I feel loved and very very very lonely. Our son is autistic too. I’m heartbroken. So we have a complicated pst, a special needs home situation and a person who is absolutely not ideal but I idealize him because I associate him with that possibility of a bright and happy future and ... it’s killing me.

 

I’m going to meet a therapist next week. This is deeper than it looks like. Please help me understand so I love this person or the idea of him? Do I need to keep fighting or learn to love myself first? Then work on either saving or ending my marriage? Thank you....

[d0nnivain]

Therapy sounds like an awesome plan. When you get a grip on your co-dependency, things will be easier to deal with. You can't stay in a marriage that isn't working but you also can't chase James, especially if he has a drinking problem.

 

Do what is in the best interests of your children.

[Garcon1986]

Fully loving yourself is always a good idea. You seem to recognize this is part of the problem.

 

Getting an autistic man to show emotion is very hard indeed. This is something he's got to be dedicated to. It's a painful struggle.

 

You are definitely in love with the idea of James. How you describe him, is not how he really is.

[nolanola]

You need to fight for yourself, not James. I think a lot of us can relate to unhealthy relationships and having a hard time letting go of people that aren't good for us.

 

I was in a relationship with an addict several years ago. When he was in a good place, it was great. We had a lot of fun together and he was very passionate. But when he was in a bad place, which by the end was a lot of the time, he was an a-hole and treated me terribly. I wanted to believe that he would change and he promised to so many times. In the end, he dumped me. I couldn't even walk away.

 

You know what helped me a lot? For one, NC. It took me a VERY long time to break away from him and the toxic residue of the relationship. I mean, about a year. But I did it by not talking to him, by avoiding places where he would be, by getting rid of pictures and so on.

 

Another thing that helped was that I kept reminding myself that he was not going to change overnight. And it was something he had to do for himself. People do not change in a week. Or sometimes even a year. They do the same behaviors in relationships until they do the work to change. He has a lot of work ahead of him before he makes a good partner for anyone. Think of that: let him go and give him the opportunity to live his life and to change if he is going to. Maybe in 5 years you guys will meet up again and both will have healthier relationship attitudes. But neither one of you can do that right now.

 

In the meanwhile, you need to work on yourself. I'm sorry your marriage is unhappy. That really does suck. But you have the chance to look inside yourself and figure out why you are attracted to a guy that is not available (James) and is not a good partner for you.

[FMW]

I don't think you were getting a lot of judgment, but advice without any sugar coating. As long as you see yourself as a victim and helpless to change things, nothing will change.

 

We all have to start where we are and clean up the mess. Unfortunately it seems you may have to start farther back than some people and have a longer way to go, but the "fix" is still the same. It's about learning to love yourself and taking full responsibility for your life.

 

James was a crutch for you and now you're missing that unhealthy support. Don't continue down that path.

[IloveJames]

I’m trying really hard now but include still devastated. See my other thread about his drinking habits - I’m convincing myself that he was a bad choice and a crutch indeed. I have tons of unresolved trauma in my life and I’ve neve r seen a therapist be able to help me, but will keep trying...

 

My kid is loved, taken care of, perfectly happy and oblivious to any of my sufferings. I pretend well.

[Garcon1986]

I would suggest seeing with your own eyes, what it means for a strong lady to stand up for herself and her own needs. It sounds like you never had enough of that growing up. Let's hear from donnivain, major_merrick, Versace_Hottie, or ExpatinItaly about this topic.

[IloveJames]

Long story - read my other two posts. But the result is yay I have complicated and severe grief and abandonment issues and even though I intellectually knew I need to end things and finally did it, he gaslighted me with negative comments prior, like “not sure I’m in love, but I do love you”, “never had those butterflies with you but I do miss you all the time”, etc.

 

I ended things and now I’m heartbroken because I love him and I’m severely traumatized by the abandonment. He went full NC without warning me and went on an extended business trip. I might never ever see him again. NC means I won’t wven know if he is well or alive. I’m so confused who actually broke up with whom and why am I so crushed when I made the choice( he drinks a lot, has commitment issues, is very obese now, doesn’t love my son, etc)

 

How can I look at NC being a positive thing and how come I dumped him but I am being tortured by NC on his side??

[IloveJames]

If love to hear from these ladies. I’m seriously at the end of my rope.

[Garcon1986]

I will tell the story of my own mum. She grew up in the 50s, in China, where there was something called the Cultural Revolution. Her family was previously middle class, and she was the daughter of a military officer (Grandpa), and a textile worker (grandma). She was on her way through high school, getting good grades, and having endless guys hit on her, when the Cultural revolution came. Suddenly, you could trust no one. Literally, their middle class lifestyle was thrown out the window into abject poverty in the course of a day. She had to live with getting water from the river (there was previously normal running water), hunger, and the risk of being thrown into prison for something she didn't do. The government's accusation was that Grandpa was not a loyal soldier of the Communist party because he was previously employed by the government of Chiang Kai Shiek (Jiang Jieshi). The entire family faced jailtime for charges even as minor as listening to BBC on the radio - if your neighbor heard, you could be done for, or even killed. My mum had to stand up for the family, because there were two younger brothers to look out for, and a younger sister. The youngest brother was obviously a hothead, because in middle school, you were invincible. She had to go get the water. Mum had to go to the bread lines. She had no prospect of a job. She had to keep her head down lest somebody accuse her of speaking against the government. She had to read books under candlelight, under her blanket, because reading the wrong books would lead to prison. She had to watch her father, decline in health due to the stress of impending imprisonment and fighting for his name. Grandpa, who was honorably discharged by the way, said that, if it's the last thing he does, he will fight to clear his family's name. No high school student should have to hear that. Her worst regret is that the grandparents never lived long enough to see me. She essentially had to be a mother to three siblings and the ailing grandparents. I've never seen my mother be in tears except when she is with the siblings at the grandparents cemetery in Southeastern China. Later on, she had to be a medical student in the worst natural disaster of her time - the great Tangshan earthquake. As a medical student, she had to go into a city where a previously normal city of 1 million was leveled by a magnitude 7.6 earthquake. At least 242 000 deaths. Little sleep. Constant trauma surgery on the go. Her mentor told her she would make an excellent surgeon. She said surgery was not her taste. As for me, me mum only had these requirements - build your own career, be a proper gentleman, and be kindhearted to all you see.

 

Nowadays, she owns her own clinic in Florida and practices Chinese medicine with a big following - many chronic diseases which were previously raging, my mum can bring under control. She made a big jump from poor high school student to practicing physician.

 

You should read Jehan al-Sadat, Madeline Albright and Margaret Thatcher's biographies.

[Miss Clavel]

leave james alone. let him go. for the love of god you two are not good for each other.

 

your crutch is gone. now you have nothing to distract yourself from your situation.

 

if you man tells you you can go for another man. it's over.

 

when a man you love loves food and drink more than you, it's over.

 

when a man that says he loves you but moves away, it's over.

 

get a grip. let him go and then get yourself over to a good doctor.

 

the only important thing for your entire life is your child.

 

pay attention to him and if you don't have a job, get one. if you do, pay attention to it.

 

you will need money and good credit to pay for housing, food and a divorce.

 

again, do the decent thing and let james be.

 

stop raking the coals, the fire is out.

[nolanola]

I haven't read your other posts yet, but my immediate gut reaction is that of course you're upset when someone stops talking to you. You obviously have some level of feelings for this person, you guys were in each other's lives. It's natural that when that is taken away suddenly you will feel at best off balance and at worst depressed.

 

The other issue that I have been reckoning with is setting boundaries. I've said this on a few other posts, but I think it applies here. When I finally set a boundary with someone recently, he also stopped talking to me. But when I told my therapist about it, she pointed out that people don't like when you set boundaries with them. Why? Because up to that point you've been letting them do whatever they want and now you're not. So of course they're going to react negatively. That doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. It's ok to stand up for yourself.

 

The other thing is that if you're a person that doesn't have good boundaries, then it's going to feel very weird to start using them. She equated it to a right handed person trying to write with their left hand and that makes perfect sense to me. So you're going to second guess yourself a lot.

 

As someone who was in an abusive relationship previously, trust me when I say that him going NC on you is the best thing that could happen. In my situation, I tried to make my relationship work and I tried to leave it multiple times. I kept going back and getting treated badly and my self esteem was in the toilet. Then he dumped me and started seeing another woman. To say I was devastated was an understatement. I couldn't eat or sleep. But you know what? Once he stopped talking to me (and I made a commitment to myself to not reach out to him) I got better. It took a long time, but it happened. And it will for you, I promise!!! Especially if you start doing some work on yourself

[IloveJames]

Poor James has many many issues and my codependency is the only reason I keep forgiving.

 

Husband is trying to win me back. I feel nothing right now but hoping to ease the pain and start working on my marriage if it’s saveable....

 

I am a successful professional and supporting myself and my kid is easy. The hard part is emotionally I’m not ready to be alone. And how my husband is still forgiving and I can’t really understand why and how. And my guilt makes me even more distant...

Edited November 26, 2018 by IloveJames
Tmi

[d0nnivain]

You are not being tortured except by yourself. He went NC to preserve his dignity. He didn't want to be the guy that groveled & begged who chased a married woman with kids who can't move to live by him. He didn't want to keep picking at the wound you left on his heart when you broke up with him.

 

Him being NC is a positive thing because it's forcing you to address many of the issues in your life & take steps to fix them.

[stillafool]

 

I am a successful professional and supporting myself and my kid is easy. The hard part is emotionally I’m not ready to be alone. And how my husband is still forgiving and I can’t really understand why and how. And my guilt makes me even more distant...

 

How would you be alone when you have a child? What you are saying is you can't live without a man. You need to get yourself into therapy.

[IloveJames]

You have no idea how right you are...

I was raised by my grandparents and abandoned by both my mom and dad. My stepdad didn’t like me either. I was convinced at 6 that I was unloveable. I have always been in a relationship. I am not an American and moved to US with my husband and I’m lonelier than ever.

 

I’ve been in so much therapy but it doesn’t seem to help ((

 

How does one learn to love themselves?

[Garcon1986]

Start by telling us what you are known for amongst friends? What makes you cool in your circle? What are your strengths?

[Garcon1986]

Also read the book Learning to Love yourself, by Gay Hendricks. It's available as an Amazon kindle book.