So... Tell me dudes if I have this correct

[MoneyFlakers]

From my personal observations and experiences this is what I have discovered to be the most accurate and common representation of real life relationships between men and women:

 

It appears that human men are by and large, not monogamous. Men of all age groups have made this statement to me in conversation. I have been kind of running an experiment I guess you could say..

 

I made sure to have a large enough subject group in relaxed casual conversation type situations with dudes of various age groups and backgrounds so that I could get the most honest picture of the scene that I could. This has been in real life and also on dating websites.

 

Men have blatantly and confidently confided in me that they are not monogamous and that the expectation of the monogamous man is an ongoing facade that dudes have been pretending to convey for the sake of maintaining various beneficial relationships with women that would otherwise dissolve if the women knew the actual pursuits and secret actions of the men they put their faith in.

 

Several men who I have dated have opened up to me about this after enough random conversations regarding the subject. These men have admitted to wanting a long term relationship for the benefits of having meals cooked, laundry accomplished, sex when they feel like it, and a fallback option when the field runs dry for them.

 

This male definition of what "wife material" is really all about has been played out in front of me in my own experiences and in the lives of many, many other women who I have encountered. Many of whom have chosen ( apparently wisely according to the men I consult) to turn the other cheek to the philanderings of their boyfriends and husbands.

 

A recent ex approached me after several conversations to that extent with the question: " So will you share?"

 

And this question was posed to me only after we got married and he revealed to me the extent of how many other women there had been and who he was currently pursuing.

 

Upon being given the full picture, my answer to his question was "NO! Seriously, wtf?!"

 

And so he left two months after the marriage. Due to that answer.

 

Since that time I have talked to a lot of other men and women about this subject.

 

Every man that I have talked with has stated that what my ex revealed to me is generally accurate regarding their own lifestyles, habits, and beliefs.

 

In fact, I have not encountered a single dude who has stated otherwise without smirking and trying not to laugh at the same time.

 

Anyway... Between my most recent ex and various men who I've included in my personal research, this is the definition of marriage/long term relationship (according to men):

 

It is generally not frowned upon to pursue and even marry a woman

who is not the man's ideal or intended goal. To marry a woman

who they think will be a good cook, keep his place clean, and ignore

his porn addiction and pursuits of other, usually younger or more

attractive women... is generally considered to be a decent fist wife.

 

Now, if a man can attract a much younger woman to begin with,

usually with money.. This man will be far more loyal to that female

in a long term/marriage situation. But this occurs usually only when

the woman is significantly younger than the man. As in at least 15-

20 years his junior.

 

However, the most common practice among men, as I have been

told and have observed, is to marry a woman who is not the man's

ideal. Usually having a wife who is decently attractive, but not a 9

or 10 will effectively attract many younger, more attractive

mistresses to that man. And keeping the younger mistresses

satisfied financially and with body worship and comparison of how

much more ideal she is compared to his wife

 

What my ex did explain to me though is that, in such a situation,

the man will be spending the majority of his sexual energy and

money on the mistress. More than a small group of men have

confirmed this for me. The reality that what the wife is signing up

for is pretty much a back burner position that has social perks on

the surface and a facade of stability that she has to really work for,

or else, he'll just leave for one of the mistresses.

 

And that is why my ex continuously asked me: " What are you even

doing for me?"

 

The above info was his explanation of why the question was asked of me. Because, as he stated, I was "wife material" meaning, if I wanted that illusion of a happy relationship for the public eye, I should have been working much harder to satisfy him with cooking, cleaning, and not questioning his purchases of expensive jewelry and vacations for a younger woman.

 

So, for the longest time after this, I just labeled my ex a psychopath and have been moving on. However, I keep receiving the same explanation from large groups of other men who I have spoken with in casual conversation, as friends and also random guys online (not sleeping with, just talking to in the interest of getting to the bottom of this).

 

Anyway, these dudes confirmed with me also the following explanation of what the engagement ring really means to them, and it is as follows:

 

If the woman is significantly younger and attractive to the man

and in the public eye, especially if he has worked really hard to

earn her attention by triangulating with other women (usually an

older long term or first wife)... Then the big ring will be purchased

as the man seriously on his knees and willing to commit. Which

means the beautiful younger women with giant rocks on their

hands are seen as worthy of such an extravagance. And the

woman's youth, beauty, plus the obvious display of wealth is a

stroke to the man's ego.

 

On the other hand, the same giant rock on the hand of a woman

who is around the same age as the man, or not significantly

beautiful or stunning in the public eye... will have a completely

different meaning...which is:

 

In that case, the man is paying her in advance for his planned infidelities and the ring is basically hush money. Also in that scenario, I have been told that the ring is the symbol of having moved that woman in his mind to serrogate mother figure. She is being rewarded for keeping her mouth shut and accepting less frequent and unpassionate sex with a man who's dick is covered in younger mistress.

 

Sooo, in the interest of the Scientific Method, I would be delighted to hear what men and women on this forum think.

 

I really appreciate intelligent, honest answers.

 

Dudes.. really, the women need to know what's happening here. It's time to drop the mask.

[Cojack123]

I’m not sure what men your talking to but that’s the most bizarre thing I’ve ever heard. I believe the majority if men and women believe managony is the way a relationship and marriage is supposed to work. I believe that men and women want a life partner to share everything with and not have “side pieces” they can share. Most men at their core want awesome sex, emotional bond, and shared household duty with their wife in an equal relationship.

Edited November 15, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncated ~ V

[Grey40]

I don’t think it’s as black and white and cut and dry as you’re making it sound. If a guy likes a girl a lot and is super attracted to her, age isn’t as big of a factor. A guy wants to be proud to have a beautiful woman on his arms. If a guy doesn’t deem you to be the ultimate prize to him personally, he won’t make the commitment. But everyone is different.

 

I also don’t think men and women are that different when it comes to cheating and polygamy. People get bored and unsatisfied in their relationships all the time, which tempts them to go outside of it to satisfy their needs that aren’t being met by their SO. This is one reason why the divorce rate is 50% in the US.

 

Not all men are the same, and there’s no general rules. Society certainly has made it “acceptable” for men to be the “player”, no doubt, though that’s changing as there is a whole new wave of feminism currently happening, and in some cases women are starting to take on a much more dominant role in our society than ever before.

 

But yeah I mean look at the movies..James bond, Clint Eastwood, etc. these are male archetypes that teach men at a young age that it’s alright to go around hooking up with whoever the hell you want, and it becomes a sort of “bragging rights” kind of thing,

[Veronica73]

OP, are you in the US?

 

I certainly don’t think that what you describe is the norm in the US. I mean, sure, some guys are like that, but I don’t think most of them are. Also, I thought that women cheat on men almost as often as men cheat on women.

[Sunlight72]

I think your sample group is hugely slanted as compared to the general population. Were many of these men you spoke with working class married men with children? I am not aware of a large population of electricians and HVAC installers with mistresses. I am aware (locally to where I live in middle America) of many electricians and HVAC installers with wives & children whom they are proud of and loyal to, and who also have challenges to work through in life - sometimes poorly, sometimes better.

 

I think in reality, many men wish to be married and have families. This is my experience with the overwhelming majority of men I know and have known - as a man, who does not fish for any false representation of the other men I know.

 

In reality, the produce stocker at the grocery, the cubicle workers en masse, and construction workers the world over are more or less lucky to have one interested woman whom they have the chance to marry and exchange pleasantries with. And - I am a professional artist - most of my acquaintances are professional artists - not a group stereotypically viewed as bastions of morality. Yet I can think of one man out of perhaps 25 that I know whom I would say fits your description. I know about 14 who are contentedly married, several of them proud of the children they are raising with their wife. Most of the ones who are single are dating or hoping to date a woman seriously, and exclusively, and ideally end in a contented marriage.

 

The internet is indeed filled with self described lotharios and don juans. I am sorry you found such an incredible ass in your ex husband, and glad he revealed himself early on. If his intention was to keep you as a home base and play the field outside the house, it was quite secretive and misleading of him not to talk about that with you in depth before getting married.

 

Men as a group are not angels. Nor are they charming polygamists. Most are just people, trying to make a decent life.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Sunlight72

[Nilfiry]

I am more interested the backgrounds of the men that you have interviewed because if you have only interviewed men of a particular niche, group, or even location, then even if they all come from different origins, it would not be surprising to see similar responses across all of them. Birds of a color flock together as they say, and this applies to you as well. You may be gravitating toward a particular type of men or class of men to interview without even realizing it.

 

Seriously, everything that you are recounting sounds like you have been talking to either very wealthy men or very stupid men.

 

The first problem here is that the average man (or person in general) is too busy juggling with his personal life and livelihood to have time to think of all of that. Many people that I know were even too busy working to bother marrying until they were late in their primes. Furthermore, your average joe generally does not have the funds to marry and support one wife just so he can take all of his money to spend on a mistress unless he is just financially irresponsible (and reckless). He can barely support himself, most likely. He may be interested in a mistress for sex, but you can forget it if it is going to cost him too much to do so. Only people living in excess have the time and money for this kind of thing.

 

The second problem with this view is that it is too rationalized. Most people are NOT rational when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Your average person is not going to be thinking, "I am going to marry this woman so she can cook and clean for me while I find another woman to screw with." No, most people act on emotional impulse, and then find a mistress when they are not satisfied in some way.

 

I cannot say much about monogamy, but I can say that most people, both men and women, have the ideal man/woman in their heads. However, these ideals are usually skewed by modern society's representation of models and idols, and eventually, people either realize that their ideals are unrealistic and learn to settle down or their emotional impulses override it when they meet someone they like.

 

The final, and most important, problem that I see is the sample pool. This sounds like a highly informal experiment that you performed in your own time, which most likely mean that your sample size cannot be of any significance. Did you talk to 10? 100? 1000? Not even ten thousand men would give you a meaningful sample size, and even some well-funded, formal experiments have trouble finding a large sample size.

[Fairyface55]

This is a very sad thing to read. I think your pool of men is very skewed. I work with very wealthy alpha high profile men - and even though some speak like pigs about woman - I have never encountered such beliefs. I am sorry you have been surrounded by a cohort of people who would treat others like this.

[FMW]

Wow, this was seriously disturbing and depressing. I suddenly hate men:sick:

 

Thanks Sunlight72 for bringing me back from the edge;)

[GinON]

I couldn’t read the whole thing, seemed like a religious rant for the sake of riling people up.

I don’t know a single man that acts like that. I would consider anyone that was that lecherous to be mentally ill, with some sort of sex addiction.

[Chilli]

l was gonna say yeah maybe it's a US thing dunno , but it's certainly not like that here .

l'm a guy so l hear it how it really is and no ,some but not many eff around at all , as a matter of fact it's more often been women that have blown up marriages screwing around or falling in love with somebody on FB or or been emailing an old flame for years swapping pics you name it or some shyt.

Just about every divorce or break up l hear about was her screwing around, sadly even mine.

Talking middle'ish ages.

 

Sooooo , nope , dunno about that one.

[basil67]

In the interest of Scientific Method, I am curious as to the methodology you used. What was your sample size? What spread across different socio economics, ethnicity, age and region did you pursue? And how did your outcomes vary according to those factors? What percentage of dishonesty and trolling did you allow for? What percentage of the group had responses which didn't correlate with what you wrote here?

[snowcones]

There's this strange phenomenon that happens where if you state out loud that you don't want a man who has a specific negative trait or behavior, those will be the exact men who will be drawn to you and get in your face after hearing you say that you don't want that. So by stating it, you end up attracting more of what you don't want. I have no idea why that happens even, it's like they don't care, and I think those guys like a challenge or something. I used to be upset by it but now I don't let it bother me and usually get rid of them by telling them to shoooo.

[Rocker71]

We have to remember that monagamy isn't natural. No one is born monogamous. Monogamy is a social construct. Just like religion and all its tenants to be followed. From a purely biological perspective, men are supposed to be procreating with any available women.

 

It's only that social construct of the idea of monogamy that stunts his abilty to try and procreate with any availble woman that he fancies. I've never known of any males that truly wanted to be limited to just one woman all there lives.

It's against our biological nature.

[Logo]

Where did you interview these men? At a strip club?

 

 

How old were they? 21 - 25?

[Logo]

We have to remember that monagamy isn't natural. No one is born monogamous. Monogamy is a social construct. Just like religion and all its tenants to be followed. From a purely biological perspective, men are supposed to be procreating with any available women.

 

It's only that social construct of the idea of monogamy that stunts his abilty to try and procreate with any availble woman that he fancies. I've never known of any males that truly wanted to be limited to just one woman all there lives.

It's against our biological nature.

 

 

 

 

But we have brains that give us cognition and make us think and understand concepts like love, respect and trust.

 

 

 

We're not animals in the wild, acting on basic primal instincts.

[Andy_K]

Seems like trolling at best.

 

Maybe many men are like that, but not the ones I associate with. I'm sure plenty of others will tell you the same.

[MaleIntuition]

We have to remember that monagamy isn't natural. No one is born monogamous. Monogamy is a social construct. Just like religion and all its tenants to be followed. From a purely biological perspective, men are supposed to be procreating with any available women.

 

It's only that social construct of the idea of monogamy that stunts his abilty to try and procreate with any availble woman that he fancies. I've never known of any males that truly wanted to be limited to just one woman all there lives.

It's against our biological nature.

 

Depends on how you define monogamy really. Being loyal and with one partner for longer durations makes perfect sense even from a pseudo-evolution-scientific perspective simply because raising human children is a job for two. Adding the fact that men experience love towards both their partner and their children should be enough to invalidate your argument.

 

When a horse is born it can pretty much walk, run and feed on its own - human children; not so much - the smarter approach is therefore to stick around; at least long enough for your offsprings to survive on their own.

 

I would also like to add that humans are social creatures. Adhering to social constructs is therefore indeed part of our nature.

[MoneyFlakers]

Hi... I appreciate the responses so far. Let me add something that might help people see where I'm coming from.. My ex who gave me the majority of this information has a very prominent yet anonymous blog on the internet.

 

When I was with him he did express his personal opinion regarding how he believes relationships should be and he showed me a black book full of business cards of men who supposedly agree with him.

 

He purposefully demonstrated how easy it is for him to attract and be with much more attractive and younger women. He did it all behind my back and then revealed everything that he had been doing as he left me. He told me he was simply showing me the truth about how most men feel.

 

Strangely enough, his very misogynistic and disturbing blog has a huge female fan base. And strangely enough, even as he makes terrible admissions about how he thinks about women on this blog, he still managed to ruin all of my female friendships that I had prior to him entering my life.

 

So as he has been telling me on the one hand all of this supposed inside info to the way men think and act behind closed doors, he is telling other women something completely different.

 

And as all of this is going on, he does seem to have a cult like following on the internet. If what he and the other men I have talked to about this isn't true... then people should know what's being promoted online anyway.

 

This guy is a hacker and also created an entire fake front of an online business just to call me a butterface. He has a huge following and is being supported by lots of people of both genders. Im just not sure that all of them know what his agenda is really about.

 

Are the majority of men seeing value in women based on appearances only?

[MoneyFlakers]

And yes, I am in the United States. So is my ex... although his blog has some kind of redirect and he is definitely wearing a mask online with it.

[basil67]

Hi... I appreciate the responses so far. Let me add something that might help people see where I'm coming from.. My ex who gave me the majority of this information has a very prominent yet anonymous blog on the internet.

 

Birds of a feather flock together. Someone who blogs ideas and has followers who feel the same way doesn't make for thorough data collection.

[Mumbles]

I've had this conversation late at night over glass or 3 of good red. I find it interesting to view other peoples responses to the subject.

 

I still remember however, one particular evening with a lady I knew very very well, and we really dug into it. The lady in question wouldn't budge ... for all the nuance and individual variation, she was rigidly attached to the idea that it was _men_ who wandered.

 

I stopped her mid speech by asking a really simple question ... who are all these men having sex with?

 

If we are to assume that most women are monogamous, and that most men are not ... there must be a relatively small number of women, really small numbers (the outliers of all women in a distribution curve of population) who are servicing a _HUGE_ number of males.

 

This stopped her in her tracks ... it was a real thought bubble.

 

In my view of reality _both_ men and women are not particularly monogamous and that roughly even numbers of both sexes are out there getting theirs at any particular moment in time.

 

It does however seem to me that men are much more likely to talk openly about it (under the right circumstances). Women don't .. or more rightly, are not given social licence to do so. I note that girls, in a trusted group, will often be open about such things, but broadly speaking, no, they won't admit to it.

[elaine567]

OK so you are presenting biased data from an online blog as fact.

[Rocker71]

This guy is a hacker and also created an entire fake front of an online business just to call me a butterface. He has a huge following and is being supported by lots of people of both genders. Im just not sure that all of them know what his agenda is really about.

 

Are the majority of men seeing value in women based on appearances only?

 

A nice appearance can be valuable... I wouldn't be too keen on being seen in publice with a gf who wasn't very attractive.

 

What else about a woman that adds value to her? I can think of one...

 

It doesn't make sense for someone to start up an online business just to defame you.

 

You came across as bitter in that post calling him a hacker.

Why are you so angry at him?

[ElKay]

You do know that there are forums and reddits full of incels, right? Those guys that hate women so much that they applauded that crazy guy in Toronto for driving his car into a crowd mostly filled with women... :/

Looking at those incel reddits, it would seem like millions of guys are like that! And yet, they don't make up the majority of men or we women would have gone extinct by now.

 

Online groups are definitely not the best way to do a research study unless you pick from the whole population. It's like asking people who are on a Harry Potter forum, whether they like the fandom or not. Of course, the majority will, why would they be on that site to begin with?