A rant. It just seems impossible.

November 1, 2018

I'm (perhaps incorrectly) drawing conclusions based on your posts in this thread. You have stated the various social benefits which you enjoy in Sweden. You have also stated how Swedish men are lacking compared to men in your home country. The conclusion I'm drawing from that is you want the benefits (Swedish social benefits, home country dating benefits) as they apply to you. If I'm wrong, please correct me. It wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

This post is so confusing. So you'd tell an immigrant who's seeking a better life and social benefits to throw out their identity and values?

I don't want to become cold and aloof like the swedes, I don't want the type of relationships they have. I have my own understanding of how relationships work. So now I can't stay in Sweden because I don't to want to date the way they do? How are you thinking, really?

Also, it's not like I'm using the country for my own benefits, I'm a tax payer and a person with a set of various skills. I speak the language fluently as I already mentioned.

And yes, I do have the right to benefit from what Sweden has to offer and still seek a relationship that satisfies my own needs. For you to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

November 1, 2018

"Makes you wait", "I've been made to wait"
No comments really...

Yes, if a woman makes me wait for sex and expects me to go on dates with her, possibly pay for them(which I would never do), it's because she's really not sexually attracted to me, and she's only going to enter a relationship with me because there are social advantages that come with being in a romantic relationship with me.

I'm very emotionally attentive. I am a good listener, I am good at solving problems(that don't involve spending money) I can easily carry around heavy loads, I can build beds, wardrobes from scratch, I can fix pipes and fix cars, I can change lightbulbs and fix the eletric board, I can do anything really that requires manual labor.

A relationship like, where I have to wait for sex(because she's not attracted to me, most certainly) would result in me being given sex as a reward for all that I've done. A payment of sorts. It wouldn't be the natural consequence of sexual desire.

Say, I go to a nightclub and I meet a cute Brazilian girl. We dance with each other, flirt, kiss, and she comes home with me for the night.

I would enter a relationship with her because I know from the start that she's sexually attracted to me, that she wants me, truly wants me and not what I can do for her. It's a real relationship with an emotional connection that is shared and amplified by the two of us.

Now think of that girl I met 10 years ago who said she would only have sex with me if I became her boyfriend, and that if I was to become her boyfriend I would have to get a job?

Was she a virgin? No.

There are things I'm willing to do, and I'm willing to take things slowly, if the girl is a virgin, and if she's a real virgin. But that's an exception.

Was she cute and fit? Sure, but so are most of the girls around. Was I very attracted to her? Yes, I was. But the idea of paying for sex turns me off, so I never contacted her again.

The way I see it is like this.

''Would this girl make a 25 year old Brad Pitt wait for sex?''

No. Therefore, in her eyes I'm not Brad Pitt and what's the point of being in a relationship with a girl who doesn't want to have sex with me 3 times a day.

Edited November 1, 2018 by sabaton

November 1, 2018

If you start low-key and take time to get to know each other, waiting for a month is not a problem. I don't ever go home to someone before I have done enough public activities with them. First weeks (IMO) are for going to live music venues, playing bowling or pool, walking around the city and talking, going on a hike - or any other activity you prefer. Then, if it looks like it lead somewhere, I will go on a home-date, to cook food together and maybe make out a bit.

I intend to keep my number of sex partners as low as possible, so I make sure it could lead to something long term before I get intimate with someone. I've only 3 sex partners in my life and I feel like that is a lot for me already.

Having sex and THEN seeing if it could work out is just not for me and I think a lot of people get hurt doing things in that order (especially women since they start building attachement after sex).

So if someone feels like they are "made to wait" just because we're getting to know each other as people first - bye and good luck. As I said, remaining single is barely a threat. Going against your principles is a 1000 times worse.

November 1, 2018

I've only 3 sex partners in my life and I feel like that is a lot for me already.
Having sex and THEN seeing if it could work out is just not for me and I think a lot of people get hurt doing things in that order (especially women since they start building attachement after sex).

And that is the smart thing to do. If a man wants you enough he'll wait. He'll wait till you're ready. If he can't wait then he wasn't the right one.

November 3, 2018

If you start low-key and take time to get to know each other, waiting for a month is not a problem

Oh, but it is. One month of interacting with someone that I find to be very sexually attractive is emotional torture, because I want to express how much I yearn for her, how vast and strongly built my romantic feelings for her are; how much I truly want her and desire her, and if I can't have sex with her how exactly am I going to express how much I admire her and the many ways I value her as a potential girlfriend?

How can I build a strong, powerful emotional connection with her if she won't become sexual intimate with me? I feel like I'm just being treated like I'm one of her best male friends. Lots of girls flirt with their male friends. Lots of girls are touchy-feely with their male friends. Lots of girls go on dates with men they are not interested in.

A woman spending time with me, a woman talking to me for hours, or a woman going out on a date with me does not make me feel sexually desired. She doesn't make me feel like she's sexually attracted to me. She having sex with me is what makes me realize that she really wants me.

This is why I prefer to meet women online, that turns into sexting and then if they're close, we can meet and hook-up. Talk to someone for 10 minutes a day or so on snapchat/instagram, then flirt with each other, send nudes and such, and if she approves of what she sees, we meet up and have sex and then if the sex is good consider going on a date afterwards:).

And that is the smart thing to do. If a man wants you enough he'll wait. He'll wait till you're ready. If he can't wait then he wasn't the right one.

But if the man is popular/attractive/rich enough, the reasons for him to wait are not going to be there, because there'll will be tons of attractive women who'll make it easy for him to get what he wants.

And even if he really likes the OP... 1 entire month without sex when there's other girls, that are funny and charming and hot, who don't make him even wait a week?

I mean, I guess there's still some traditional women in the world, but in Sweden of all places? where everyone becomes sexually active at the age of 13, and they have several girlfriends at the same time?

It's gonna be really hard. OP, I suggest you date a man from Pakistan or India. Their society expects and demands them to have as little sexual partners as possible and to wait for something really serious before they have sex, 'cause I got a feeling Scandinavian men are going to be hard-pressed waiting that long for sex. If other sexual acts are off the table.

Edited November 3, 2018 by sabaton

November 3, 2018

Oh, but it is. One month of interacting with someone that I find to be very sexually attractive is emotional torture, because I want to express how much I yearn for her, how vast and strongly built my romantic feelings for her are; how much I truly want her and desire her, and if I can't have sex with her how exactly am I going to express how much I admire her and the many ways I value her as a potential girlfriend? .

If a guy told me these kind of things, I'd probably feel sick in my stomach lol

November 3, 2018

No offense, Sabaton. It's just not to my taste. Also, our perceptions are inheritantly too different to have a discussion that can lead anywhere, so thanks for chiming in (and thanks to all others) but this thread feels done now

November 3, 2018

This thread has taken a strange turn. We can construct all kinds of scenarios like “if a guy is rich/famous/20 years old Brad Pitt/30 year old Brad Pitt then he has no need to wait for sex for 10 minutes before better options occur”. I’d say good riddance, I’d never want to get involved in some sexual musical chairs game. This is a very transactional view and doesn’t have much to do with actual long term relationships.

In real life if two people are interested in each other it all evolves naturally and there is no place for ultimatums and competition. You are just genuinely drawn to each other and respect each other’s wishes and boundaries. In long term view one month means nothing if you have a real connection and the connection takes time to build.

Some sob story like “but how can I profess my undying love and deep connection to you if you don’t sleep with me immediately” reads like straight from some sleazy PUA handbook. If it works for someone, great, but it has hardly anything to do with building a meaningful relationship.

I also don’t think that all guys are even that hypersexual that one month without sex is the end of the world. I even doubt that all guys are actually comfortable sleeping with a total stranger. In that case people should have hundreds of sexual partners and statistically this is not the case. Even Sweden is not some live porn movie

November 3, 2018

This thread has taken a strange turn. We can construct all kinds of scenarios like “if a guy is rich/famous/20 years old Brad Pitt/30 year old Brad Pitt then he has no need to wait for sex for 10 minutes before better options occur”. I’d say good riddance, I’d never want to get involved in some sexual musical chairs game. This is a very transactional view and doesn’t have much to do with actual long term relationships.

In real life if two people are interested in each other it all evolves naturally and there is no place for ultimatums and competition. You are just genuinely drawn to each other and respect each other’s wishes and boundaries. In long term view one month means nothing if you have a real connection and the connection takes time to build.

Some sob story like “but how can I profess my undying love and deep connection to you if you don’t sleep with me immediately” reads like straight from some sleazy PUA handbook. If it works for someone, great, but it has hardly anything to do with building a meaningful relationship.

I also don’t think that all guys are even that hypersexual that one month without sex is the end of the world. I even doubt that all guys are actually comfortable sleeping with a total stranger. In that case people should have hundreds of sexual partners and statistically this is not the case. Even Sweden is not some live porn movie

Exactly! Couldn't have said better myself.

One month is like 4-5 dates, that is if you're a busy person who also has friends and family to spend your free time with. If a guy is already tortured and in need of expressing his everlasting attraction to me after 4 dates, we're clearly not compatible.

November 3, 2018

This thread has taken a strange turn. We can construct all kinds of scenarios like “if a guy is rich/famous/20 years old Brad Pitt/30 year old Brad Pitt then he has no need to wait for sex for 10 minutes before better options occur”. I’d say good riddance, I’d never want to get involved in some sexual musical chairs game. This is a very transactional view and doesn’t have much to do with actual long term relationships.

In real life if two people are interested in each other it all evolves naturally and there is no place for ultimatums and competition. You are just genuinely drawn to each other and respect each other’s wishes and boundaries. In long term view one month means nothing if you have a real connection and the connection takes time to build.

Some sob story like “but how can I profess my undying love and deep connection to you if you don’t sleep with me immediately” reads like straight from some sleazy PUA handbook. If it works for someone, great, but it has hardly anything to do with building a meaningful relationship.

I also don’t think that all guys are even that hypersexual that one month without sex is the end of the world. I even doubt that all guys are actually comfortable sleeping with a total stranger. In that case people should have hundreds of sexual partners and statistically this is not the case. Even Sweden is not some live porn movie

Yep , l know the threads done but exactly , well said and l'm male.

Of course he'd wait if he's serious he might never meet someone he feels that way about again what he throws that away just because she wants to be sure. lf a guy is truly honed in on one girl then he can think of nothing else.

And l'd expect the same from her, l wouldn't even consider a woman that didn't have enough feelings to start with to be loyal to us for whatever reason for as long as it takes.

l mean all this crap that the world of so called love is all so shallow and time sensitive high pressured endless nothing options beating the door down 24 7 it must be now because l'm seeing 20 other people thing, giveme a break.!

What the hell is that even ?

If it even is as some people make out then that bs is nothing to to with love or meeting the right person.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Chilli

November 4, 2018

But if the man is popular/attractive/rich enough, the reasons for him to wait are not going to be there, because there'll will be tons of attractive women who'll make it easy for him to get what he wants.

And even if he really likes the OP... 1 entire month without sex when there's other girls, that are funny and charming and hot, who don't make him even wait a week?

So she should hurry up and have sex with him before he loses interest?

Let him lose interest and let him go. Guys like that will get sexually bored of you really quickly anyway.

November 6, 2018

So she should hurry up and have sex with him before he loses interest?

Let him lose interest and let him go. Guys like that will get sexually bored of you really quickly anyway.

How many men are there in the United States who aren't obese?

how many men are there in the United states who are fit and young? (18-25)?

With that taken away, how many men are handsome?

How many men are 6'2''?

How many men have a full head of hair?

With all of that taken into consideration... how many men are there in Canada and in the United States who have all of those physical characteristics to be found in themselves?

What happens when a dude like that shows up, in LA, New York City or Chicago? They get tons of women after them.

And you know how many men there are in the Scandinavian Countries that are handsome, muscular, tall, and with broad-shoulders?

Millions. The average-looking men look like top tier male models in most Countries lolol. When I walked the streets of Stockholm I couldn't take my eyes off all the beautiful men and women, and these men don't have to wait at all.

Now replace handsome and tall and fit with rich and powerful and the answer is the same. These guys don't have a need to wait for sex, because they're not the ones being vetted here. The women are the ones getting vetted lol.

Am I saying that OP should do something she isn't interested in doing to keep the interest of one guy? Nope. What I'm saying is that very high quality men aren't going to wait. That's something average dudes do, and they do it because they are forced to do it.

Let him lose interest and let him go. Guys like that will get sexually bored of you really quickly anyway.

Nah. I know plenty of guys like this one that went on to have a long-term non-exclusive relationship with the girls who slept with them right off the bat. Edited November 6, 2018 by sabaton

November 6, 2018

I could argue just the same that a guy who knows that he can get sex does not need to jump on every attractive woman like it’s the last chance in the world to get laid. We all don’t eat ourselves to death in all-you-can-eat buffets just because it’s there. What you describe sounds like a sex addiction or a fantasy of someone sexually deprived what it must be like for hot people (I’m not assuming anything personally about you).

Having walked on the streets of Stockholm many times I can say that people are nice and fit on average but it’s exaggerated to say that everyone is a model. They all probably just look normal to each other

November 6, 2018

How many men are there in the United States who aren't obese?

how many men are there in the United states who are fit and young? (18-25)?

With that taken away, how many men are handsome?

How many men are 6'2''?

How many men have a full head of hair?

With all of that taken into consideration... how many men are there in Canada and in the United States who have all of those physical characteristics to be found in themselves?

What happens when a dude like that shows up, in LA, New York City or Chicago? They get tons of women after them.

And you know how many men there are in the Scandinavian Countries that are handsome, muscular, tall, and with broad-shoulders?

Millions. The average-looking men look like top tier male models in most Countries lolol. When I walked the streets of Stockholm I couldn't take my eyes off all the beautiful men and women, and these men don't have to wait at all.

Now replace handsome and tall and fit with rich and powerful and the answer is the same. These guys don't have a need to wait for sex, because they're not the ones being vetted here. The women are the ones getting vetted lol.

Am I saying that OP should do something she isn't interested in doing to keep the interest of one guy? Nope. What I'm saying is that very high quality men aren't going to wait. That's something average dudes do, and they do it because they are forced to do it.

Nah. I know plenty of guys like this one that went on to have a long-term non-exclusive relationship with the girls who slept with them right off the bat.

Then she should only date high quality men who think they're average.

Win-win

November 6, 2018

Just to make sure, I don't think OLD is vile or anything like that, the people I've met very nice, educated and I can't say anything bad about neither them nor the dates themselves. I just don't like anyone I meet, there's never any chemistry and if I ever want to meet them again it's because I'm telling myself that maybe there's a chance I'll like them later. But it doesn't happen

As for the bolded, why is that? Are they just poor matches, despite being decent people, for the most part? I know I couldn't find a good match nearby, despite meeting many. I had some particular preferences that required that I look much farther away, in order to find enough candidates with those traits. I did find some, but they were anywhere from 100 miles away, to 8000. And yes, I did meet them, and date them, and a few were really great matches. I married one of them, but it took some work to manage relocation.

November 6, 2018

As for the bolded, why is that? Are they just poor matches, despite being decent people, for the most part? I know I couldn't find a good match nearby, despite meeting many. I had some particular preferences that required that I look much farther away, in order to find enough candidates with those traits. I did find some, but they were anywhere from 100 miles away, to 8000. And yes, I did meet them, and date them, and a few were really great matches. I married one of them, but it took some work to manage relocation.

I can't quite say, it's just that there is no spark, no attraction. I've been thinking lately that I do need to build some kind of anticipation through chatting, I need to know something more personal about them, the way they think... But at the same time I hate the small talk, so I try to navigate the conversations towards more random, personal questions. But it just doesn't work with everyone. They will usually navigate it back to boring stuff, like how was your day etc. Also, I should probably go for guys I find at least at little bit attractive, I don't know. I have liked different men, no specific type, have liked guys I'd normally not find attractive at all, so it's so hard for me to say who to go on dates with. I don't like the obviously handsome ones, I immediately see trouble, big ego and narcissism lol.

And how did you meet the ones who lived further away? Where did you found them

November 7, 2018

Just as many people abuse of social media and use it as primary social communication, OLD to me is another symptom of a larger problem in the modern world. Humans were not meant to socialize like this. All 5 senses and then some are required to establish strong connections with people...instead all we use is eyesight to read profiles and messages and look at posted pictures and videos.

Not just that but, you are being exposed to a wide array of people to choose from. There is always another choice if you don't like who you're with and you know that. Maybe there's better out there you think to yourself, instead of enjoying and working on the present situation. People become commodities. Choices. Nobody really cares about eachother. Everybody expects you to have no flaws. Assuming you are looking for a partner to share your life with, you coincidently end up doing the opposite.

Some of the responses on here is just more proof of it. People are feeling off and miserable over these things and I don't blame them.

I had a tinder account for a day before I deactivated it and after I was ghosted by a girl I met online on another OLD site, i was turned off, and deleted my account. Not my cup of tea at all. Maybe I'll return one day..I don't know.

- Beach

Edited November 7, 2018 by Beachead

November 7, 2018

I got on a couple of dating sites a couple of months ago and have had some nice dates, getting better every time.

I've always been very selective. At first, my bar was a bit lower because I wanted to bust my dating slump and just get out there again. But those first dates were unimpressive and I didn't see them again.

As I've gone along, I've raised my bar higher and higher. Now I just stopped replying to the guys who say vague and snooze-worthy things like "How long have you been on this site?", "Tell me about yourself", other boring stock messages that you see a thousand times. Also, if he just answers a message but doesn't say anything to draw a response from me, I lose interest and stop messaging him.

Naturally, it's maybe 1 out of 100 guys on dating sites you'll have any real interest in talking to. Then 19 out of 20 of those will drop the ball or flub it up before you even meet. So that means an extremely small percentage of guys on dating sites have any appeal for a date, let alone a relationship.

I'm getting out and doing more things now, as I feel I'll have much better odds of meeting a man in the real world. But dating sites are a good backup. I'm open to meeting someone that way, but not holding my breath.

November 7, 2018

By the way, since this thread is still continuing - I went on two more dates last week.

One guy showed up on my meetup (I kinda invited him, since mostly girls rvsp'ed and he said he loves karaoke). He was kinda nice, but good god he sang terribly. And his pictures were misrepresentations of how he looked, which wouldn't be a problem in itself, but combined with his terrible singing abilities (and he was the last one to sing, after hearing everyone else, and we were all really good), it was just a mess. I felt like it was a mistake to invite him.

Then I went out on a spontaneous date on Sunday. It wasn't good either. Again, a normal person, but misrepresented in his pictures, he had sunglasses in most of them and I didn't get a good of his face. Also, I did most of the talking to fill in the gaps, very hard to talk to. The conversation didn't flow and when that happens I start filling in with lots of stories of my own.

Eh.

November 8, 2018

I got on a couple of dating sites a couple of months ago and have had some nice dates, getting better every time.

I've always been very selective. At first, my bar was a bit lower because I wanted to bust my dating slump and just get out there again. But those first dates were unimpressive and I didn't see them again.

As I've gone along, I've raised my bar higher and higher. Now I just stopped replying to the guys who say vague and snooze-worthy things like "How long have you been on this site?", "Tell me about yourself", other boring stock messages that you see a thousand times. Also, if he just answers a message but doesn't say anything to draw a response from me, I lose interest and stop messaging him.

Naturally, it's maybe 1 out of 100 guys on dating sites you'll have any real interest in talking to. Then 19 out of 20 of those will drop the ball or flub it up before you even meet. So that means an extremely small percentage of guys on dating sites have any appeal for a date, let alone a relationship.

I'm getting out and doing more things now, as I feel I'll have much better odds of meeting a man in the real world. But dating sites are a good backup. I'm open to meeting someone that way, but not holding my breath.

Yeah agree Rube.

l found the same thing although l wasn't on it long but l wasn't wasting my time with 100s of people , to hell with that.

l was only interested in meeting somebody very very special IF, l happened to find her on there. If l didn't then so be it l wasn't interested in anyone that wasn't her.

To me that was the only way.

So l just quietly looked through for a mth or so, only contacted a few girls out of 1000s, but the last one was more than l could've hoped and we live together now.

We're still in shock in a way if we ever think about how we actually somehow found each other like that.

But if someone is serious , l can't even fathom why they waste their time contacting 100s of people or going dozens even hundreds for some, of dates .

To me they must have no idea and just shoot aimlessly blind, and wearing themselves out while they're at it.

That just seems so ridiculous .

Edited November 8, 2018 by Chilli

November 13, 2018

This thread has some of the most ridiculous stereotypes about swedes that I’ve ever seen.

Do you honestly believe that Scandinavians don’t have close, intimate and meaningful relationships? It’s true that Scandinavians are more individualistic than many other countries and therefore considers it impolite to share personal stuffs with strangers. That doesn’t, however, reflect the average relationship.

Being one of the driving forces behind gender equality, Scandinavia has also to a larger degree started to accept that: Hey, girls like sex too - perhaps we should therefore chill some with the slut-shaming. With that liberty comes a more honest hookup culture where guys whom are looking to get laid find girls whom are on the same page instead of pretending to be interested in something serious.

So, what does that mean for STDs? Chlamydia is one of the most common in Scandinavia - although less common than in many states in the USA. Being open about the problem - that’s a good thing, it makes it less taboo. As you can see, the more dangerous STDs, such as HIV is (was) most common in - wait for it - Estonia. Where were you from again?https://onlinedoctor.superdrug.com/std-us-eu/

Sure there will be some hipsters whom take things towards extremes with some gender neutrality mumbojumbo, but they hardly represent the entire population!

By reading this thread your issue is clearly that you, simply put, is too judgemental.

Exhibit A) Swedish men aren’t masculine. They are simultaneously cold, only care about materialistic things etc

Exhibit B) Gym goers are only interested in their looks and are therefore narcissistic and lack depth. Also ugly.

Exhibit C) People with adventure profile are only interested in bragging. And they lack depths.

Exhibit D) The guy couldn’t sing - how dare he enjoy singing!

Exhibit E) People whom like mainstream music lack depth.

This. Right here. Is the reason why you will struggle finding a partner. Too many prejudices. A lack of curiosity.

People are more than their nationality, their hobbies or their music taste. Every. Single. One.

November 13, 2018

What I'm saying is that very high quality men .

It's a bit irritating to keep hearing the 'high quality' men (or women) line. A high quality man is one that has great character, and makes his woman happy, not one who is 6.2 and has a full head of hair. Those traits don't do anything for a relationship.

Now, it's true that most people chase these things in vain, they don't know what they're doing.

November 13, 2018

Lorenza, I'm from Eastern Europe and believe me, we are not that special.

November 13, 2018

Also, I did most of the talking to fill in the gaps, very hard to talk to. The conversation didn't flow and when that happens I start filling in with lots of stories of my own.
Eh.

Did you ask him questions about himself too? Or just recite your own stories?

November 14, 2018

It's a bit irritating to keep hearing the 'high quality' men (or women) line. A high quality man is one that has great character, and makes his woman happy, not one who is 6.2 and has a full head of hair. Those traits don't do anything for a relationship.

Now, it's true that most people chase these things in vain, they don't know what they're doing.

True , lotta naivety and weird ideas from that one but what your saying is spot on .

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